your take on the difference between Top, Dom, or Master and bottom, sub and slave [Archive]

Sir_Russell

03-22-2006, 07:33 AM

After 35 years in the life as a Dom, my newbee slave said I was the most terrific top she has known and thought it was a wonderful compliment, but I was insulted.

So my friends lets talk about these terms and what they mean to you.

Top is a player takes little or no responibility for the bottom other then in the scene.

bottom also is a player offering little to the Top but a willing playmate.

Dom is a more then a top takes a sub or bottom to play with but with a sub shoulders responsibility for the sub welfare beyond the scene in an agreed upon manner.

sub is more then a bottom in the life the sub allows and wants more control of her life to the Dom.

Master are Doms that want a slave that needs more control of the slave's day to day life. The Master is directly involved with his slave's well being up to and including a 24 - 7 control. The control of course is limited to the slave agreed upon limits and the limits the Master has pushed beyond the original agreement. The Master may play with a bottom or sub but craves more then either of them is will to give up to him in a long term relationship.

The slave craves an intense level of involvement and control from the Master finds that most decisions are made with or by the Master for the slave. Most slaves in my opinion are stronger more driven people then are subs that take more of an okay do it to me attitude, the slave works hard to honor the Master.

I am a Man/Dom/Master and I love my morgan dearly she is my ideal as a slave, bright beautiful, stubborn but once commited to anything she gives it all that she has to be the best at it. I am a very lucky Master to have this lady struggling to be the best slave.

Tell us if you agree or disagree with my assessment of these terms. :crawlgirl :tunes78:

Aesop

03-22-2006, 07:44 AM

I have no argument with your definitions of the terms, but I really don't like defining any of this. My submissives have called me the entire range of names you listed and sometimes they fit the definitions you have listed and sometimes they don't. Doesn't really matter to me. I think having a rudimentary knowledge of how the terms are usually used in the community is probably a good idea, but I can't ever see myself getting offended because my submissive gave me a compliment and used the wrong title. I guess what I'm saying it that the words don't matter to me near as much as the intentions of the people I'm playing with; however, to each his own.

Nikita

03-22-2006, 08:55 AM

Sir Russell,

I agree with Aesop when he said this, I have no argument with your definitions of the terms, but I really don't like defining any of this.

Don't you think the terms are relative to the relationship the two people have?

submissivewife

03-22-2006, 10:49 AM

I've always wondered what everyone's take on defining these terms. For me, I consider myself a wanna be slave. Right now, I am a submissive who wants to serve and be a slave. Just finding a full time Master/Dom/Top is a pain in the butt.

I identify a Dom as being any title they want: Sir, Master, Milord, Daddy, or any other title a Dom chooses. Top vs. Dom....to me I always thought they were the same. Sub vs. bottom I have always thought they were the same as well. To me though, submissive and slave are similar but different in how they serve their Top/Dom/Master/Sir/Milord/Daddy.....etc.

But I like how Sir Russell has defined each differently and well, I just might have to rethink all this.

Sir_Russell

03-22-2006, 03:27 PM

Thanks for the feed back.

What I was defining was the different levels of commitment to the life. I was trained after I entered the life by a society that has its roots in europe and a couple of hundred years old.

I have no problem with anyone finding their niche in the life at all. I though take the life very seriously, therefore I am safer to play with then a weekend warrior that is sceneing.

Nikita

03-22-2006, 04:18 PM

Sir_Russell

03-22-2006, 04:57 PM

Each of us gets training, either from someone they trust, reading about the life, or from the net. I was lucky enough to be discovered by a great Dom and Mentor. I met his mentors and socially other members of the society.

Even in the society I did not accept all they taught, like most of us I took what I needed and made sense to me. Today I am still learning that is a major reason for being here.

Please don't take that statement as a brag it is not. The society also had devil worshipers in it and I took none of their training.

Tojo

03-22-2006, 04:58 PM

I have no argument with terms defining roles, apart from the fact that I think we need to remember that we're also about having fun.

I'd hate to put new people off by too much rigidity, I think relationships can change at time goes on, what's important is that both care about each other.

There's got to be a balance between being serious & having fun- that's my mission, to work that out for myself. I couldn't care less what my girls call me, I find that if I'm deserving of a title they'll happily use it.

Tojo

Sir_Russell

03-22-2006, 05:20 PM

I was not after dictating a life style to anyone I was merely offering terms and my idea of what they meant. I was asking for others to discuss these commonly used terms that I have found to be used rather carelessly

Please don't feel that I am concerned about how you live the lifestyle, to quote morgan "its all good, peace love twinkies"

Ozme52

03-22-2006, 10:42 PM

I was going to put in my 3 1/2 kopeks worth... but this thread seems to have gone from birth to old age in a single day.....

Sir_Russell

03-23-2006, 04:39 AM

Aesop

03-23-2006, 05:37 AM

It is a shame then, maybe it is my belief that words are tools that has me concerned that terms and history of the life has gone so loosy goosy.

There was a group in Colorado that was teaching they newbees that BDSM started after WW2 by black gay men. That is what frightens me, if we don't know more about what we do and who we are how will anyone ever understand how dangerous our form of play can be.

That's an excellent point and one I partially agree with. I don't know that it follows that if a person doesn't know how and when BDSM started they won't practice it safely, but there are too many people out there half-assing their way through BDSM and that makes them dangerous. Your post about your introduction to BDSM makes me view your initial post in a different way too. In a society of people it would be necessary to have distinctions between the titles so everyone would know what you were. Most of us aren't in societies though and I don't like to give people the impression that there is a "right" way to practice the relationship parts of BDSM or that the words are what is most important.

submissivewife

03-23-2006, 06:58 AM

I was going to put in my 3 1/2 kopeks worth... but this thread seems to have gone from birth to old age in a single day.....

On the contrary Ozzy,

I am very interested on your views. Please share. I have always wondered others take on the titles in BDSM. I have no real "group" I follow about how these terms are used and how each means differently for each person. As I have mentioned before, I am quite new and still learning all the titles, terms, forms of play, and my own personal development.

Please share your thoughts.

subwife

Sir_Russell

03-23-2006, 10:38 AM

I am not trying to brag but most of us old timers, ie before internet, either had no knowledge or we found books that gave us information, some of us were lucky enough to be discovered by a larger group and got to the attend munches and parties, find mentors and partners. Here in my area it was very very hidden from everyone because of social fear and a real fear of the law.

The local groups provided knowledge and protection for the subbies too. When one was hurt badly by a poser we took care of the poser, and put out the word so that he or she was forced to find victims from the general population.

One of my points that I expected some one to pick up on was that the greatest of all Masters would also be a Dom do to the kind of care offered to the sub/slave and that the Master during a scene was Topping.

Tojo

03-23-2006, 03:57 PM

I was going to put in my 3 1/2 kopeks worth... but this thread seems to have gone from birth to old age in a single day.....

Yeah I'm with subwife- get back here & post, Oz!

I think the argument here is that while an organisation of sorts with rules & regulation is a great idea in theory, people have seen too many such structures become hang outs for weirdos. Look at the church, look at governments & corporations.

There is no guarantee that someone who has done training, & has many years experience can or will be a better Dom than someone who meets someone & starts playing around.

I speak from experience in the building trade, where many licenced tradespeople do shocking work. Just because someone has a driver's licence & years of experience doesn't make them a good driver.

Russell, don't take this as a personal criticism, you may be the best Dom ever, I have no idea. I'm just trying to point out the conflicts I see.
I commend your efforts, & take the point that many so-called Doms are a menace.

Oh & I don't call anyone Sir, buddy! :rolleyes:

Tojo

Sir_Russell

03-23-2006, 05:31 PM

Again, I am not saying that there is one way to live the life it is too huge for that. I may be old fashioned though that I consider myself a craftsman in my area of the life, I study it from many different sources, I spend time planning sessions so that I can avoid painful mistakes, that was a lesson taught to me by my Mentor.

I do use the term Sir it was given to me by my Guild and so I use it here and every where in BDSM circles.

I am a modern knight errant or maybe it is that I am an errant knight.

I do what I can, where I can, and love when I can ..... Sir Russell

Tojo

03-23-2006, 08:34 PM

Again, no offence - My comments were aimed at those who do try & 'lay the law down'. I can see you're not doing that.

You have my respect for trying to do it properly & taking things seriously, I try to do the same. Anyone who cares about a sub's welfare gets my vote.

Tojo

Ozme52

03-23-2006, 10:41 PM

It is a shame then, maybe it is my belief that words are tools that has me concerned that terms and history of the life has gone so loosy goosy.

There was a group in Colorado that was teaching their newbees that BDSM started after WW2 by black gay men. That is what frightens me, if we don't know more about what we do and who we are how will anyone ever understand how dangerous our form of play can be.

And there are groups who try to teach that the Holocaust didn't happen. Some official U.S. Schools, as recently as the 1950's, didn't teach that the South lost the Civil War, and just this year there was a court battle over Intelligent Design.

We all just have to continue to tell and teach the truth as we see it and hope the majority of people will be able to recognize the b.s. for what it is.

----------------

But if you try to put too much structure around an otherwise loose, social, human set of actions, you stifle creativity. For example, if we use your definitions, there is no place for me to exist. I don't fit into your definitions. I actually suspect that most of us don't.

Ruby

03-24-2006, 02:40 PM

Hi Sir Russell,

Perhaps your definitions should be qualified as definitions within a consensual relationship since they mention pre-agreed limits.

You make a good point. As a "master", one takes on the roles of top and dom, they are sub-sets of the larger role.

Thus when your "slave" was complimenting you as a top, she wasn't negating your other roles.

The definitions were common with many BDSM glossary's, yet I enjoyed your slant about the desires that drive each relationship.

What threw me was this line:

Most slaves in my opinion are ...

This is where placing labels can lead to elitism.
Whether some one is a sub/slave/switch/dom or whatever role they choose to take, its doesn't make them better or worse, stronger or weaker, than any other role.

In an SSC or RACK relationship, it's all about choice.

I didn't see your definitions related to different levels of committment to the life, but more different levels of committment to a BDSM relationship.

Because of the magic of the Internet & phone, one can be completely submerged in a master/slave or dom/sub relationship, yet have no physical contact with their partner. Do we say then, that these people aren't in the lifestyle? They are in the lifestyle, though they may be practicing it more publically or privately than others.

Times change, philosphies update, yet having a good working set of concepts helps everyone play by a set of rules.

Am looking forward to more of your insights,

Ruby

PS

BDSM has been practiced in one form or another since our earliest recorded history.

Secret societies, like the legendary Hell Fire Club, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hellfire_Club,
have added an aura of mystery.

They've also added a complicated set of bragging rights for clubs who want to claim lineage that dates back to them.

Having a sub who escaped from one of those clubs, I tend to get a little cranky when I hear words like "trained" by such a group. All of my internal alarms go off. Like any club, such training could be an advantage or a detriment.

Ozme52

03-24-2006, 02:53 PM

What threw me was this line:

Most slaves in my opinion are ...

This is where placing labels can lead to elitism.

LOL... not to quibble Ruby... but such a line about doms somehow doesn't lead to elitism?

Dom's are by definition :rolleyes: elitists. Our labels are meant to separate us from the lesser beings. :rolleyes:

Ruby

03-24-2006, 03:28 PM

Mad Lews

03-24-2006, 06:07 PM

LOL... not to quibble Ruby... but such a line about doms somehow doesn't lead to elitism?

Dom's are by definition :rolleyes: elitists. Our labels are meant to separate us from the lesser beings. :rolleyes:

Being as we seem to be arguing semantics allow me to add a Slovakian Crowns worth of opining.
I am an untrained Dom. At least that's what I believe I am. I have a secure relation with my wife whom I respect and would never consider a "lesser being". She is my equal in every way though we have chosen different roles. When we dance (so to speak) I lead and she follows, but we interact and share the direction in which we travel. I realize you are speaking with tongue implanted firmly in cheek but I do believe there are some unimaginative folk out there who could take you very seriously. a sub/slave/partner is to precious a resource to be squandered on the foolish or unappreciative.

Mad Lews

submissivewife

03-24-2006, 06:59 PM

Mad Lew.....where have you been? It's good to see you back.

OH, sorry carry on......

Tojo

03-24-2006, 08:10 PM

Yes that's exactly how I see myself, an untrained Dom. Or maybe just a guy who likes playing around a bit & isn't happy with being labelled in what I do.

The girls I play with are certainly no less important than I am, in my mind what I do is for them. As for them being lesser beings, no one who knew them would ever say that!

One other thing to remember with all these categories people are so free with, no two relationships are the same. It seems to be a trend in the community that people should act in a particular way & play a role to suit the 'movement' rather than the special relationship they're in with that one person.

We have little enough freedom in everyday life- no bugger is going to take away any more of mine. :gun:

Tojo

Mad Lews

03-24-2006, 08:52 PM

Yes that's exactly how I see myself, an untrained Dom. Or maybe just a guy who likes playing around a bit & isn't happy with being labelled in what I do.

Tojo

Hi Tojo
Yes a responsive chord there, It may just be my passive aggressive oppositional disorder but I think I resent the idea of being a "trained Dom." it seems to lack originality might even be seen as predictable and almost tame. Then again mayhap I'm misunderstanding the concept that's happened before.
Don't get me wrong I believe in SSC but I don't think that takes much more than an appreciation of common sense (which I guess isn't that common) and respect for your playmates.

Hi subwife :wave:
I'll try to be a bit more visible if you keep writin those hot little tales
Mad

submissivewife

03-24-2006, 09:11 PM

right a way Mad Lews, just as soon as I can think of another good hot one.

Ozme52

03-24-2006, 10:57 PM

Yes all, I do have my tongue in my cheek, hopefully the use of italics and appropriate emoticons :rolleyes: made that clear. (Though the italics got lost in the "quoted" box...)

If the unimaginitive people take offense at my humor, or worse, use it as a basis to validate some misguided belief system, we can correct them at that time. A world without humor is just too boring.

(I once had this girlfriend. Her mother and father were very impressed with me for some unknown reason... maybe because I treated their daughter so well. They went out of their way to make me feel at home and "mom" even cooked a special dinner. Even served wine, a nice blended white. I said I had never been so Chablis treated. Turns out mom had no sense of humor and absolutely no sense of fine punnery.... None-the-less, to this day, I still tell jokes, love a good quip, and there's virtually no restraining myself. Miss the girlfriend though.....)

Tojo

03-25-2006, 05:24 AM

Ozme, reading that story makes me glad I joined this forum!

Thanks. :)

Tojo :rolleyes:

Ozme52

03-25-2006, 03:28 PM

Heh heh.

It was a memory I just dredged up. Hadn't thought about her in a very long time.

Sir_Russell

03-26-2006, 02:13 PM

thanks for all the posts, I am just back from a long weekend with morgan.

I never ever meant that anyone in the life is lessor then anyone else. I understand that each of us has different needs and wants. Each relationship is what it is and if it fills each person up then it is good.

Yes I am proud to have had training but I was a practicing Dom before Leonard found me and recruited me to his society, there I learned history as well as traditions. I took from them what I needed and ignored what I did not approve of, and there was much that I did not approve of then or now. Example making subs practice prostitution to demean them or to have them earn their keep or to recruit new members to the society.

My take on this life is that a Top without a bottom, a Dom without a sub or a Master without a slave (and for that matter the reverse is true for bottom, sub or slave) is not only a sad lonely being but no longer anything.

submissivewife

03-26-2006, 04:15 PM

My take on this life is that a Top without a bottom, a Dom without a sub or a Master without a slave (and for that matter the reverse is true for bottom, sub or slave) is not only a sad lonely being but no longer anything.

What you have said is so true, except the last four words....everyone is something, just incomplete.

subwife

Sir_Russell

03-26-2006, 06:38 PM

lol my point is that a Dom without a sub has no way to be a Dom. Sad horrible experience that I have had a few times while searching for one that is a proper fit for us both

learningtopleez

03-27-2006, 01:20 PM

But Sir Russell, did you not still consider yourself a Dom even during those times that you had no one? Yes, it can be very lonely, and sometimes sad, but I still consider myself submissive, even though I don't have a Dom right now. I am very happy being just me, and have found that I would rather be alone, than to just "play around," while waiting for the "one." It may mean that I will always be alone, but I refuse to settle for less.

just my two cents

Sir_Russell

03-27-2006, 07:55 PM

Yes a part of me is all ways the Dom but you can't be a carpenter without wood.

I too have spent a lot of time without while finding my one again. During that time part of me was raging

Tojo

03-27-2006, 09:20 PM

I'm afraid I can't see that if I didn't have a girl to play with that I wouln't be a Dom. I was always a Dom.

I'm happier now I've found someone or two, but if I lost both my girls, & all my friends & even my wife, I'd still be me.

Hey watch it with the carpenter analogy! I'm a retired carpenter, timber or no timber! :rolleyes:

You ain't what you do, you are what you are IMO. :)

Tojo

learningtopleez

03-27-2006, 10:14 PM

Yes a part of me is all ways the Dom but you can't be a carpenter without wood.

I too have spent a lot of time without while finding my one again. During that time part of me was raging

I think the part here that makes me wonder is, why would you be raging? And about what? Is it because you were without a sub? I have always thought that no other person can make me complete. I first have to be happy with myself, as I am, with no other. And I have to love me, then perhaps, love will find me. And I may be sad about it, but it never leaves a part of me raging. Sorry for going on and on, but I guess I am just curious.

And I agree with you Tojo, in that you aren't what you do, but what you are!

Sir_Russell

03-28-2006, 07:47 AM

learningtopleez

hmm raging indicated my need and displeasure at being without. I still say that a either party without the opposite is strictly potential.

I also believe firmly that in the life and for the life the one we search for is the person that allows you to be whole, complete and this makes you happy. I am happy with me and like me very much alone but being with my one as I now am brings the "topping", if you will pardon my pun, like chocolate syrup on ice cream, otherwise why do we search for our one.

I too am quite a carpenter but again I can't carp without wood.

You learningtopleez are right though find the one that has what you crave, then be the best submissive possible. If that is your photo I bet your real problem is working through the wannabee crowd to find a couple of real ones.

ANYONE CAN OVERPOWER, BUT NOT MANY CAN INSPIRE
it is a quote I came up with last night and though it is about real Doms it is the same for real submissives.
ANYONE CAN SUBMIT, BUT NOT MANY CAN INSPIRE
that is a tribute to my morgan

learningtopleez

03-29-2006, 12:02 PM

Thank you Sir Russel for making your opinion easier to understand! And if I do understand you correctly, finding the "one" is like having that chocolate syrup on your ice cream...it just makes everything better. Complete even.

And no, that isn't my pic....it would be nice, but it's just an avatar I found on-line. But I do seem to run into a lot of wannabees, or Dom's that think they should immediately say things to me like "Wanna be my cumslut?" I certainly don't understand that kind of thinking. I mean, wouldn't it be nice to be friends first and go from there? Don't get me wrong, I love being submissive with the right Dom (and I am a cumslut, but only with a certain one), and had a wonderful experience with a teacher Dom last year, but he started out being nice first. We discussed lots of things, not just bdsm. And he took me places I had never been (submissive wise), and haven't been since.

Thank you for encouraging me to find the one I crave! :)

And I like your quotes btw! :)

Sir_Russell

03-29-2006, 01:20 PM

learningtopleez
I think you have it now. My morgan makes me complete and I seem to make her complete too. Both of us were happy before we met, then found this attraction that could not be denied even as we kept running into problems, then finally we began to melt into a single entity that has more strength then either of us seperately.

If this growth continues each of us will be more complete then either had dreamed of.

Let me share her photo with this group since I am a proud Master.

Tojo

03-29-2006, 03:24 PM

I mean, wouldn't it be nice to be friends first and go from there?

Thank you so much for that LTP- I was starting to think I'm the only one with such a peculiar notion!
I'm firmly convinced you need to be friends first, something I like to keep very much in a D/s relationship.

Tojo

Sir_Russell

03-29-2006, 04:22 PM

Tojo, she should be your best friend not just a sub or a slave. If she isn't then she is neither and not in the life but merely a player

Tojo

03-29-2006, 05:11 PM

I have no further comment to add. :rolleyes:

Tojo

Ruby

03-29-2006, 07:10 PM

Thank you so much for that LTP- I was starting to think I'm the only one with such a peculiar notion!
I'm firmly convinced you need to be friends first, something I like to keep very much in a D/s relationship.

Tojo

Tojo, you are not alone on that notion.

Ozme52

03-29-2006, 10:25 PM

I agree... but take a look at your vanilla friends' marriages. How many can you honestly say started as friends who became lovers vs. lovers who became friends (if they're friends at all.)

In my experience, those are few and far between.

So, in my opinion, you can make a successful D/s match if the chemistry is there without necessarily being friends first.

BTW - by my definition, a friend is FAR more than an acquaintance... more even, than an acquaintance with whom you hang out.

Alex Bragi

03-29-2006, 11:19 PM

After 35 years in the life as a Dom, my newbee slave said I was the most terrific top she has known and thought it was a wonderful compliment, but I was insulted.

Sir Russell, you hot old dom you, why be offended by your sweet submissive's exuberance? Why not instead bask in what was meant as a kindness and a compliment?

Being labelled as this or that may help others to ascertain what you needs are, and it may even give you a better sense of identity of who you are. Beyond that, however, labelling surely doesn't validate who or what someone is in reality, does it? "A rose by any other name…" And, a good dom by any other name, is still a good dom.

And, there's that damned 'player' word again. "Player" the scourge of the bdsm world. But, what exactly is a 'player'. Is it like, someone who enjoys bdsm, but who really isn't in to it? *g

And, Tojo, you rock!

Sir_Russell

03-31-2006, 05:04 AM

Once again It matters not to me what part of the life anyone chooses, as long as they respect the life.

Yes, I have greater respect for those that see this as a life style worth honoring and respecting, take the effort to be what they crave.

Sir_Russell

04-02-2006, 02:49 PM

Alex yes your right a player is someone that doesn't take it seriously loves to play and that is fine if that is what you and partner want. Hard though to say that is a member of a lifestyle though

Ozme52

04-02-2006, 11:22 PM

Well that's just so arrogant it makes me laugh. To think, I'm not a Star Trek fan because I don't wear uniforms and have prosthetic ears... or I'm not worthy to be a NASCAR devotee because I don't drive... or... or... or... ad infinitum.

What makes you think l don't take it seriously just because I don't necessarily live it 24/7. You're, in essence, dismissing the vast majority of the bdsm community.

Sir_Russell

04-03-2006, 03:46 AM

Can you read. I am begining to think you can't. If you read and comment on what was said great but when you decide to twist what was said to find personal insult then that is your issue.

Yes I stand by what I said, if all you do is play then how is it a life style. I lifestyle is not overt but it is serious.

Read, understand, then comment or ask questions.

Aesop

04-03-2006, 04:30 AM

All right fellas, tone it down a bit. Don't make me get all supermod 'round here. :gun:

submissivewife

04-03-2006, 05:47 AM

All right fellas, tone it down a bit. Don't make me get all supermod 'round here. :gun:

Yeah guys I'd be careful he bites.......

Tojo

04-03-2006, 06:37 AM

This thread was finished by page 3.

Tojo

Sir_Russell

04-03-2006, 09:39 AM

Aesop

04-03-2006, 07:09 PM

Aesop

I begin to believe that I am in the wrong place. I came here to learn and share knowledge instead it seems that the attitude here is very juvenile. "I know all I need to know" attitude and if you may have a greater pool of knowledge then instead of respecting that it is easier to denigrate.

I will be silent in the future, and not be concerned about much of what is written here.

Sorry if I expected more from a site that claims to be a library of the life.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion Russell. I myself have found the forums to be the extreme opposite of what you have found them to be, but then I don't have as rigid an outlook on BDSM as you seem to. I am generally a peacemaker and a fool - I suppose those go hand in hand - but I have to say your parting shots to the forums as a whole seem to me to be the act of a juvenile instead of the other way 'round. I don't know how you see what's happened, but to me it looks like you had a few people disagree with you and now you're taking your marbles and going home; which is a damn shame in my opinion. I may not have agreed with everything you posted, but I enjoyed your contribution nonetheless.

Good luck to you.

Tojo

04-04-2006, 12:36 AM

My apologies for taking what may have been a 'hard line' myself.

This is a topic that tends to get me pretty riled, but I agree that everyone has the right to their opinion.

I'll try & stay cool & not act like a fool. :rolleyes:

There's a lot of stuff I don't agree with on this & other forums- I like to think we can all come on & say our piece while still respecting each other.

Tojo

submissivewife

04-04-2006, 07:33 PM

This thread was finished by page 3.

Tojo

Your right Tojo, this thread was finished by page three. I just don't understandwhy people can't have a conversation without pushing thier beleifs down peoples throats. I mean, as a community we should be open to others ideas and thoughts; not pushing our own.

Sir_Russell...sorry your thread didn't go as expected. This really was a good topic to talk about. Suddenly though, it turned to push for people to beleive a certain way and that is not what this forum is about. I am not naming you or anyone else. But you as a Dom may want to learn to curb your thoughts and opinions so they don't come across as "my way or the highway". That might work in your relationship but not as a community as a whole.

Brosco

04-05-2006, 09:25 AM

I have only just read this thread, and its probably just as well because I'm not sure I would have remained as polite as all here managed.

Lets get a few facts in order here.

These so called secret 'houses' in Europe that are hundreds of years old are a myth created by wannabees to give themselves credibility.

Whether someone has been 'trained' or stumbled through adventures with their partner, it is what was learnt that is the most important thing.

Many people like to claim xxx years of experience to give themselves more credibility. But its often that when one claims 30 years experience they really are talking 1 year's experience 30 times over.

A carpenter without any wood or tools is still a carpenter.

BDSM was not discovered after WW2 by some gay black men. This reference revealed a lack of knowledge on a subject raised. The gay men (not necessarily black) after WW2 are referred to as the 'Old Guard'. They did not claim to invent BDSM, but they were the people that brought it out of the closet. For those that are interested I can give a website created by a(online) friend of mine that is a historian and has researched bdsm history. Oooohhh and while it wasn't mentioned in this thread, there are some people that try to get credibility by claiming they were trained by the 'Old Guard', just as others claim they were trained by centuries old secret houses in europe (they usually pick germany).

And to get back to the original question.

To be praised as a good Top does NOT negate other qualities. A Dom (or Master) needs to be a Top also.

The difference between sub and slave (Dom and Master) is debated on every BDSM forum on the net. Since there are no hard and fast rules in the lifestyle, it is purely opinion. In my humble opinion, the difference between a sub and a slave is how you want to define yourself. I know subs who show much more submission than some who define themselves as slaves.

OK.... off my soap box now :)

Brosco

Sir_Russell

04-05-2006, 10:20 AM

Brosco

Needles to say I agree with some of what you wrote, I though will once again try to straighten out what I said.

First though how is my time in the life worth just a single year of experience. I do not make claims to know it all or even be interested in all of this we call the bdsm lifestyle. I know the parts I love, I came here to learn more.

Now I never said that old guard was anything, I tried to straighten out the belief that a group in Colorado was teaching.

I also never said anything about a house in europe, my comment was a very old society that I joined. Since I have never been to europe I have no idea about a physical school. Training and mentoring have been with us for a very long. To say or think otherwise seems to be a lack of knowledge of any secret society be it Masons or KKK.

Last I could care less about your belief in whether I am honest or not. I learned a long time ago people normally project their own flaws on others.

I merely wanted to open a discourse on the life and I find that I have failed in that, so why is it that you and others can't discuss terms and styles without taking offense?