Online (vs) Reallife

[Brosco]

Ok, please don't groan about this topic being raised yet again. I had just made a reply to post in another forum and thought that some here may be interested in my thoughts. My apologies to those that think the topic has been dealt with enough times already.

I have had r/l and online relationships, and am currently in an online situation. This topic is debated all over the net and its always refreshing to see some new and interesting thoughts. Of course, there will always be those that have never tried online and are still able to condemn it, just as some that have never been r/l try to convince us that their online is just as 'real'.

First let me explain how our online relationship is conducted. We do use emails and IMs for some communication, but apart from extra assignments I may issue, our D/s life is over an Internet phone. (Products like Skype, Firefly, Yahoo voice, etc).

Online (vs) reallife should not be directly compared. Its apples and oranges, but they both grow on trees and come under the broad title of 'fruit'. One person may prefer apples over oranges, but that doesn't give a right to condemn someone that prefers oranges. I have been in the fortunate position of enjoying both :)

Online is very different to reallife. With the limitation of no physical contact, other senses tend to improve. Just like a blind person's other senses develop because of lack of sight, in online the use of voice and the mind become the focus and in my experience, with wonderful results.

Obviously, those that rely the most heavily on the physical side of D/s would have much more difficulty than those that receive their enjoyment from the challenge of Control and submission via the mind. Clearly, online would not be for everyone, but for some, the mental aspect is all that is required to have a satisfying relationship.

In fact, I will go so far as to say, for me, that after going from a r/l situation to online I learnt much more about my own and my sub's mindset without the distraction of the physical. It is a very rewarding experience. It is very challenging to get inside another's head this way, and just as many subbies get their satisfaction from the struggles they must endure, I get my satisfaction from the control I can have through the mind and the challenges I face to achieve that control. lol.. it is not so hard to get control back of a subbie in r/l when she gets one of her feisty moods, it often takes little more than a few swats to her butt - but online it is a mental challenge to regain that control and can be a lot of fun

My particular kink is Orgasm, tease denial and control, cum-on-demand, etc. And yes, even cum-on-demand can be taught in an online environment, especially if you have the voice capability via an internet phone. Although I don't usually have this sort of play on IM, as an experiment one time I did type to a subbie that had learnt cum-on-command: 'No questions, no hesitation, just open your mind and hear my voice and "Cum for me Now!". And yes it worked!

OK, I am sure there will be skeptics that don't believe she really did cum and that she just claimed she did so. Well, for those that have been in healthy online relationships, they fully understand the importance of trust and honesty. I have no reason to believe that she would lie about this, nor would she have had any reason to do so. Online is not about roleplay. For most of us it is a real D/s relationship with real tasks, real actions and real results. We many be somewhat limited in some of the physical tasks that can be achieved, but if they aren't particularly important to your kink, its not a major loss.

For those that come online because of a non-understanding vanilla relationship, I feel for you. I do agree with others, that if the spouse does not know of the relationship there is an element of cheating involved, but on the other hand, I also understand that this 'cheating' may be saving a marriage by satisfying a demanding need. It must be quite a dilemma for some, and while I would prefer to see a situation where the spouse knows of and condones the online play, I can also understand those that have a spouse that would never be able to comprehend the importance of this release. My very sincere wishes to anyone struggling through this.

There are many reasons why people choose online, and the above is just one of them. Just as there are many different reasons why some prefer apples over oranges.

Brosco

[Aesop]

Groan. ;)

Teasing Brosco. Like you I enjoy both the online and the r/l sides of bdsm and find the rewards different, but equal in intensity. This surprised me when I started playing online because like many I just didn't see how it would work. Glad I took the time to find out I was wrong. :D

[Tojo]

Nice one Brosco. The day we don't see snide comments about the insignicance of online relationships will be the time threads such as this are no longer required.

I don't lie awake too much worrying about what people think, but as with many things, I don't like to see new & inexperienced people getting one side of an argument.

I have a 'straight' wife who I love very much, but who isn't there for me in this part of my life. I can do a few days of R/L play with someone from overseas, but if I had a regular R/L thing I'd be tempted to cheat, which isn't OK in my book. :dont:

So true that it's different. There's nothing like actually tying someone's hands behind their back, but you miss so much in my opinion. That's just me- we're all different. Imagine have an online thing & being illiterate?
Imagine being lacking in imagination? :confused:
What if you had a bad memory? (Oh no, I forgot the nipple clamps, she's been wearing them all day)

It's not for everyone- my dream girl & I had a bit of a go at an online D/s thing & it was hopeless. It's a special thing between two people, whether online or R/L. I guess if my wife kicks me out for talking to women so much I'll go to the States & try the R/L thing- that's why she's my dream girl.

I'd still have my girls online though. :)


Tojo

[katie_21]

Ok, well I don't have much of an opinion on this one because I haven't really experienced either one. But I'm just assuming that R/L would be more fun lol

[Ozme52]

Online is great for getting to know people, just as it was in the days of written correspondance and packet ships and more recently pen pals... but there is no doubt about it in my mind.

Real life is necessary for a truely satisfying relationship.

[katie_21]

Yes I agree Ozme52...online is a great way to get to know someone...IF they are being honest that is.

[Ozme52]

You can usually tell if you don't rush in... using the same skills you would if you were introduced by a mutual friend, went on a blind date, met at a bar or social engagement, or even an exchange of words and looks in the park. LOL

Online is simply another venue for meeting people. The honest ones and the trolls.

[katie_21]

Yes, I know all about the trolls now lol

[Ozme52]

LOL... if you weren't quite so young... I might go trolling... er fishing for a hook-up.

[katie_21]

oh trust me Oz...you wouldn't want to troll...fish for me lol

[Ozme52]

LOL


Now, don't think Heather and I were stealing Brosco's thread.

We were just demonstrating some online intercourse. *weg*

[Brosco]

Hey Ozme, if i thought you were stealing my thread I would just start another, I love the sound of my own voice too much to allow to shut me up :)

Brosco

[Brosco]

Ok, well I don't have much of an opinion on this one because I haven't really experienced either one. But I'm just assuming that R/L would be more fun lol

Well heather, this is just the whole point, you can't assume that for all. My situation is a bit more obtuse, so let me describe fantassy's. She has gone back to college for studies for a better future and its damned demanding, but to help subsidise this, she also works part time. She really has no time in her life for a fulltime b/f, let alone a demanding dom. Online suits fantassy just now, its something she can schedule with the rest of her busy life, she would not be able to schedule a r/l dom, and so her choices are limited to online or pass it all up. Which would you pick?

For my own reasons, I am also happy just to be online right now, and so we both provide each other a need without pushing past what we are capable of giving.

Its ideal for us and most importantly, it works for us.

Now, if we didn't have other reallife constraints, would we prefer to be doing this together in R/L? To be honest, I haven't a clue, because that is not something we even discuss since its not a real option. fantassy is like you, new and learning, but she is fitting this in with the rest of her busy schedule, but experiencing a bit of 'hands on' training and I try my best not to steal extra time to impact her studies. From what I can see, if fantassy is serious about maintaining her studies (and I know she is) her choices were online or nothing. So in that context, online is definitely heeps more fun :)

Brosco

[Tojo]

LOL... if you weren't quite so young... I might go trolling... er fishing for a hook-up.

Hmm, I see someone likes to live dangerously? :dont:

What's a weg anyway Oz?

Tojo

[Brosco]

weg: Wicked Evil Grin :)

[katie_21]

Yes Brosco, if it was between online or nothing...I'd pick online :)

[submissivewife]

Hmm, I see someone likes to live dangerously? :dont:

What's a weg anyway Oz?

Tojo

uummmmm guys....no fighting over the girls. Play nice!

[katie_21]

Well, I'm pretty sure Oz was just making a joke. But there's definately nothing to fight over here lol.

[Tojo]

uummmmm guys....no fighting over the girls. Play nice!


No I meant he might get bitten by Heather....:noprobs:



Tojo

[submissivewife]

OHHHH So we have another biter around here..........:rolleyes:

[katie_21]

Yes, I do bite....but not to hard lol

[submissivewife]

Be careful, there are some here that do........*giggle*

[Ozme52]

Lol

[Ruby]

Real life is necessary for a truely satisfying relationship.

That’s not true for me.

I have a very satisfying relationship with my long distance pet.

And yes, we have met and played in real life.

Even with time constraints and distance, we have managed to keep our relationship very much alive and blossoming.

Sometimes the online/phone/messenger relationships can be more satisfying than a real life one. Why? Cause it can be as uncomplicated as the partners choose to make it. In a fantasy relationship, we are free to be ourselves at any age, always looking our best, in our best mood, etc.

It is definitely apples and oranges to try to compare each relationship. It’s a wonderful thing to have so many options from which to choose.

If we - in general as a community - can find what works best for us as individuals and not judge others for what works for them, the more open and able to learn we can be.

[Tojo]

Online is great for getting to know people, just as it was in the days of written correspondance and packet ships and more recently pen pals... but there is no doubt about it in my mind.

Real life is necessary for a truely satisfying relationship.

Oh Oz, I respectfully disagree with that!


weg: Wicked Evil Grin

Thanks for the enlightenment Brosco, sorry I missed that before, that darn Heather distracted me. :)

Yes I get a huge amount of fulfillment & satisfaction from my online relationships. In fact my dream girl just got a web cam....
There's also another young lady I know who looks just beautiful on my screen & sounds lovely on the phone.

Of course I'm married as well to a sexy 'straight' woman- maybe that helps? I wouldn't want to go for a day without spending some online time though- my life would be barren without it.

Tojo

[Brosco]

Oh Oz, I respectfully disagree with that!

Let me stand beside you Tojo. Anyone who follows our O-on-demand thread can see (i hope) that fantassy and I are having a very fulfilling relationship. We are both providing what the other needs at this point in time, without additional complications. Now, whether either of us will require more in future is not the issue, but for now, fantassy provides all that I want from a relationship, and I strongly suspect that she requires no more also.

At one stage in my life (I am fossil material), we relied on radio (wireless) for our entertainment, then TV came along. In relationships we relied on physical presence, but then the internet came along. Now, I still listen to the radio and still like physical contact, but I certainly don't dismiss the new 'media' as inferior.

In reallife we have to accept compromises. but on the net, we can let our fantasies run free. Fantassy and I haven't even exchanged photos or even descriptions, let alone using a webcam - we just enjoy the interaction of the mind without any hangups from the physical world. I don't suggest that this would work for all, but for both of us, it is all we need to provide a very satisfying relationship for both of us.

Brosco

[fantassy]

In reallife we have to accept compromises. but on the net, we can let our fantasies run free. Fantassy and I haven't even exchanged photos or even descriptions, let alone using a webcam - we just enjoy the interaction of the mind without any hangups from the physical world.
Brosco

I hear that cute Aussie accent and keep picturing an older Patrick Rafter in my mind, but Brosco informed me this weekend he looks more like Hugh Jackman. . ..lol

fantassy

[katie_21]

I can relate to hearing that cute Aussie accent fantassy :)

[Ozme52]

That’s not true for me.

I have a very satisfying relationship with my long distance pet.

And yes, we have met and played in real life.

Even with time constraints and distance, we have managed to keep our relationship very much alive and blossoming.

Sometimes the online/phone/messenger relationships can be more satisfying than a real life one. Why? Cause it can be as uncomplicated as the partners choose to make it. In a fantasy relationship, we are free to be ourselves at any age, always looking our best, in our best mood, etc.

It is definitely apples and oranges to try to compare each relationship. It’s a wonderful thing to have so many options from which to choose.

If we - in general as a community - can find what works best for us as individuals and not judge others for what works for them, the more open and able to learn we can be.

I'll have to discount your basis of disagreeing with me Ruby. You've described a real life relationship, albeit a long distance one (LDR). Because you have indeed "met and played in real life." I had a wonderful LDR, lasting 11 years. In some ways an LDR can be better, Many people who tend to bicker don't during an LDR, the times together are too important to waste on fighting... and the reasons to fight don't even crop up... being most people bicker about petty annoyances that just don't happen during those rare times together.

[Ozme52]

Hmm, I see someone likes to live dangerously? :dont:

Tojo


But how is a real life meeting with someone you originally meet online any more dangerous than going home with someone you meet at a bar, or a party, or a mixer?

In the U.S. alone, 50 million of us use the internet. That's 1 in 6 (inclusive of everyone... regardless of access to or availability of a computer) That's extremely high odds that most of us are safe. I've always contended that this is just the newest venue for meeting people... as well as keeping in touch thereafter.

[Ozme52]

Oh Oz, I respectfully disagree with that!

...

Yes I get a huge amount of fulfillment & satisfaction from my online relationships. In fact my dream girl just got a web cam....
There's also another young lady I know who looks just beautiful on my screen & sounds lovely on the phone.

Of course I'm married as well to a sexy 'straight' woman- maybe that helps? I wouldn't want to go for a day without spending some online time though- my life would be barren without it.

Tojo


So you're saying you would prefer to not meet either of them if given the opportunity? (With the underlying assumption it would not hurt your marriage.)

[Ozme52]

I'll pose the same basic question to you Brosco. Given all else equal, you would prefer not to be with fantassy in real life?



Let me stand beside you Tojo. Anyone who follows our O-on-demand thread can see (i hope) that fantassy and I are having a very fulfilling relationship. We are both providing what the other needs at this point in time, without additional complications. Now, whether either of us will require more in future is not the issue, but for now, fantassy provides all that I want from a relationship, and I strongly suspect that she requires no more also.

At one stage in my life (I am fossil material), we relied on radio (wireless) for our entertainment, then TV came along. In relationships we relied on physical presence, but then the internet came along. Now, I still listen to the radio and still like physical contact, but I certainly don't dismiss the new 'media' as inferior.

In reallife we have to accept compromises. but on the net, we can let our fantasies run free. Fantassy and I haven't even exchanged photos or even descriptions, let alone using a webcam - we just enjoy the interaction of the mind without any hangups from the physical world. I don't suggest that this would work for all, but for both of us, it is all we need to provide a very satisfying relationship for both of us.

Brosco

==> Yes, it is the issue if you feel it will eventually provide more than you have now. That was exactly the point I was making.


==> Well, there you go... because I wasn't thinking about, or answering, the question in terms of a fantasy relationship.

[Ozme52]

I guess I must feel pretty strongly about this topic. LOL

[katie_21]

Looks like you do Oz lol

[Tojo]

I can relate to hearing that cute Aussie accent fantassy :)


Oh you sound pretty darn nice yourself young lady. :)

Oz (sorry I said Brosco instead of Oz) I didn't say I wouldn't rather meet that special someone- I will be meeting an online friend later this year. I just don't agree that it's impossible to have a 'truly fulfilling relationship' via phone & internet.

As I say, it's different for everyone, that's just how it is for me- I have great satisfaction over the airwaves.

It's also possible to live with someone & NOT have a fulfilling relationship! :shithappe


Tojo

[katie_21]

oh gee Tojo, you're making me blush again lol

[fantassy]

I'll pose the same basic question to you Brosco. Given all else equal, you would prefer not to be with fantassy in real life?

let me take a shot at answering your questions, Oz. Do I imagine being with Brosco in real life. Yes. Would I prefer to be with Brosco in real life - not necessarily.

==> Yes, it is the issue if you feel it will eventually provide more than you have now.

In many ways of course being together in real life would provide more than we have now, BUT it also would provide more troubles than we have now. We have a huge age difference - not an issue online - probably an issue in real life. I'm preparing to start a new demanding career; Brosco is semi-retired. Brosco smokes; I'm allergic to smoke. I adore cats; Brosco doesn't care for them. I tend to come-and-go as I please and work late hours without notice. All of these things would be problems in a real life relationship but are completely unimportant to an online relationship. So, one needs to keep in mind that the "more" you have in real life isn't all good stuff.

==> Well, there you go... because I wasn't thinking about, or answering, the question in terms of a fantasy relationship.

I don't think Brosco was really talking about a fantasy relationship, but about a mental relationship. I have a basic idea what he looks like and vice versa. I think we have been honest in what we say to each other. But the true attraction, at least for me, is to Brosco's brain. I really like the way he thinks - not just in d/s stuff but in general. In a way, online can, if you are both being honest, allow you to get to know one another better without all the physical crap getting in the way.

Anyway, that's my two cents.

[Brosco]

I'll pose the same basic question to you Brosco. Given all else equal, you would prefer not to be with fantassy in real life?


Neither of us are in a position to be r/l at the moment (and wont be for some considerable time). The truth is we are getting more time together than if we were r/l - plus, as fantassy has already stated we enjoy getting into each others head and that would be harder to do with the physical distraction. So when all is assessed - we are happier and better off where we are.




==> Yes, it is the issue if you feel it will eventually provide more than you have now. That was exactly the point I was making.

No... you misunderstood me. Maybe fantassy or I may want more in the future.. and not necessarily from each other. I cannot predict the future. All I can say is the here and now.



==> Well, there you go... because I wasn't thinking about, or answering, the question in terms of a fantasy relationship.

Again, i am afraid you misunderstood me. Hopefully fantasssy explained this better. Because we do get into each others heads we can use some fantasy as an aid to what we are really doing. For example, it only takes a piece of rope around her wrist and she can feel hopelessy bound. Its a mindset we can create. But we aren't creating a fantasy about bondage, we are just creating a mindset that is an aid to what we are doing. We are able to use the mind with some fantasy aspects to dramically add to our reality. In an online environment this is easier to do because of the 'loss' of the physical presence, other senses increase.

Brosco

[Ruby]

I'll have to discount your basis of disagreeing with me Ruby. You've described a real life relationship, albeit a long distance one (LDR). Because you have indeed "met and played in real life." I had a wonderful LDR, lasting 11 years. In some ways an LDR can be better, Many people who tend to bicker don't during an LDR, the times together are too important to waste on fighting... and the reasons to fight don't even crop up... being most people bicker about petty annoyances that just don't happen during those rare times together.

Great point, Oz, about Nat and I switching to LDR.

However, before we met, our online/phone relationship was extremely satisfying. It still is.

Would I want Nat and I living out our fantasies on a daily basis - with him by my side? Tempting, but my productivity would drop to an all time low. That is at work, not in the domming.

* wicked grin *

So... when does a relationship become "real life"?
When you finally meet?
Talk on the phone?
When?

Ever curious.

Ruby

[Ozme52]

Great point, Oz, about Nat and I switching to LDR.

However, before we met, our online/phone relationship was extremely satisfying. It still is.

Would I want Nat and I living out our fantasies on a daily basis - with him by my side? Tempting, but my productivity would drop to an all time low. That is at work, not in the domming.

* wicked grin *

So... when does a relationship become "real life"?
When you finally meet?
Talk on the phone?
When?

Ever curious.

Ruby

We are human animals. Evolved to be social. The need to see, hear, and foremost, to touch, is bred into our bones. All of the inventions throughout the ages, which have facillitated communications, have not, can not, imo, replace human contact.

That's all I'm saying.

And I'm not belittling the other. I'm here afterall. A committed online participant. But I recognize I need more.

I envy you Ruby... you've found it. And while you joke about lost productivity... if you could... I believe you would. And would do it successfully, just as we all manage the different parts of living. :rose:

[Ozme52]

Again, i am afraid you misunderstood me.


Nope, I didn't misunderstand. I chose to use the sentences within your response that, imo, clarified my perspective. I understood, and understand, the points you were making...

I think it's a rationalization, but I understand it. I think this may have to be one of those... "agree to disagree" situations.

[Ozme52]

I don't think Brosco was really talking about a fantasy relationship, but about a mental relationship. I have a basic idea what he looks like and vice versa. I think we have been honest in what we say to each other. But the true attraction, at least for me, is to Brosco's brain. I really like the way he thinks - not just in d/s stuff but in general. In a way, online can, if you are both being honest, allow you to get to know one another better without all the physical crap getting in the way.
Anyway, that's my two cents.

fantassy,

You'll see above, that I've admitted to using Brosco's response in a manner that suited my perspective... (not apologizing for doing so mind you. It's one manner of pursuing a debate point.)

I agree 100% with what you've said here (highlighted red) but, again, I have to say, non-personal communications have, over our whole history, allowed us to get to know each other without meeting... but meeting is better.

Even if you don't believe you would connect on a long term basis... wouldn't you like to, just once, shake his hand, maybe give him a hug...

...and feel his breath on your earlobe as he whispered "cum for me."

[Ozme52]

Brosco I didn't say I wouldn't rather meet that special someone- I will be meeting an online friend later this year. I just don't agree that it's impossible to have a 'truly fulfilling relationship' via phone & internet.

As I say, it's different for everyone, that's just how it is for me- I have great satisfaction over the airwaves.

It's also possible to live with someone & NOT have a fulfilling relationship!

Tojo

First off, LOL, I think you're arguing with me... Not Brosco.

Secondly, adjectives are not quantitative. They're qualitative. I also have great satisfaction over the airwaves... Do those words mean exactly the same thing to the two of us? Maybe. We just seem to disagree on the words "truely fulfilling." I'm just bemused that you can have a truely fulfilling relationship online and still "rather meet that certain someone special."

So are we in agreement as to the concept but not as to the words to describe it?

[Tojo]

oh gee Tojo, you're making me blush again lol

Oh I haven't even started yet Heather. :)


Yeah sorry guys, I swapped Brosco for Oz there-


Secondly, adjectives are not quantitative. They're qualitative

First up, it's not nice to use such profanity on a forum Oz. Keep using big words & I'll pick you up on your spelling! :)


So are we in agreement as to the concept but not as to the words to describe it?

Yeah I guess so- with reservations.... See the tricky bit is that the young lady I'm meeting in person, I'm not having a D/s relationship with.
However we plan on seeing how it goes in person for a week. Sort of a trial.

Also my long-term girl, I've never even seen a face shot of, much less on a webcam. We have an online relationship with strict boundaries, we really have no desire to meet in person.

So it's not as simple as all that.

Tojo

[Brosco]

Without going through all posts to find all the quotes I need, I would like to summarize a little here. Oz, I can understand and accept that you believe that you need more. I would never try to convince you (or anyone else) that another can get all they need from an online relationship. My disagreement with you is that in several places you have taken your beliefs about yourself and stated them as fact for others. I have clearly stated that online is not for everyone, but attempted to explain how online is giving fantasssy and I all we need.


We are human animals. Evolved to be social. The need to see, hear, and foremost, to touch, is bred into our bones. All of the inventions throughout the ages, which have facillitated communications, have not, can not, imo, replace human contact.

That's all I'm saying.

And I'm not belittling the other. I'm here afterall. A committed online participant. But I recognize I need more.



I disagree with you on this. If I take your argument to its logical conclusion you are suggesting that a blind or deaf person is unable to have as satisfying a relationship as yourself. If you have ever had any dealings with a person who has lost one of their primary senses you quickly realise that their other senses have increased in capacity, the loss in one area is fully compensated by the other.

I remember when fantassy and I just started talking she stated to me that in just a few days she shared more with me about her most personal thoughts than she did with her ex in 8 years! I also stated in an earlier post that being online has helped me understand much more of my own and a subbie's mindset than I did in years of r/l. I am loving the things that I am learning about the power of the mind, and I know that if I moved to a r/l relationship I would slip into old habits and be distracted by the physical presence. I am not prepared to stop my learning at this stage, it is way too exciting and stimulating.

And while I am not attempting to answer for fantassy,


Even if you don't believe you would connect on a long term basis... wouldn't you like to, just once, shake his hand, maybe give him a hug...

...and feel his breath on your earlobe as he whispered "cum for me."

I would suggest that being online is a major factor in contributing to our successes with O-control. We are both very relaxed and enjoy where we are and have opened our mind to fully taking advantage of our newfound skills. If either of us spent our time bemoaning what we can't have, we would be diminishing our capability to enjoy an exciting experience.

Brosco

[submissivewife]

Ok, I have sat back and looked at this long enough and decided to put my two cents in.

I do feel that online can be very fulfiling, but can become unfulfilling to some. I have had mostly internet. To me internet is very mental and that is the kind of person I am. (YES! I'm mental lol) The mental domination is more fulfilling, to me, than the physical....NOT saying I don't like it. The physical scenes I have been in have been very much fun and exciting.

I have not had an actual "real life" experience yet (other than playing with my Sir a couple of times); which I desire more than anything. I do feel that once you start desiring more of the physical then the internet becomes unfulfilling. Some reach that point others don't and are perfectly content with interent....nothing wrong with that.

To answer Ruby's question....to me, real life is the actual physical interaction between the two.

subwife

[fantassy]

Even if you don't believe you would connect on a long term basis... wouldn't you like to, just once, shake his hand, maybe give him a hug...

...and feel his breath on your earlobe as he whispered "cum for me."

As they say, why ruin a good thing? Right now, when he commands "cum for me" it just washes over and through me. If he were really whispering in my ear, I'd probably get distracted by his scraggly beard or would be self-conscious.

fantassy

[Brosco]

hey.... i trimmed it recently... it really aint that scraggly :)

brosco

[Uncle_Ed]

I have been participating in the general goings-on in this site for a very short time and have not come across chatrooms or role play areas before, but I have come to see I cannot truly believe that a fully-formed human being can be satisfied by an on-line relationship.
I can grasp that on one level role-playing will provide a certain pleasure and form of escape. I say role playing because this is what an on-line relationship must be. It is not real. It does not involve body language and contact. It is devoid of most things that define us as human.
I read that people are satisfied by mental contact and by adopting a particular mind-set and frankly it makes me want to weep.
There are so many nuances in a glance. So many pleasure in a touch. Such an eroticism in a perfume. A joy in a lover's sigh. The taste of anothers body.
We have five senses and they are all used in a relationship of true depth. I will not subscribe to the way of thinking that says electronic transmissions of our intentions can be a substitute. Merely an imitation.
I will agree that such contact can be auto-erotic. The ideas sent out providing the sender with a thrill more than the recipiant. If you cannot actually see, hear, touch, smell or taste the other you can rely solely upon their statements-which you interpret from the written word alone and your own statements of feelings.
For what are two typists doing other than describing the way they wish their senses to react? Is it not better to actually have the senses stimulated?
Please lets have clear division between reality and fantasy.
What we read here is far removed from everyday life.
I do not say that an on-line relationship is bad. I do point out that it is a pale substitute for a human one. If we begin a new step in evolution by becoming satisfied with contact-by-wire then we risk losing the very things that make us what we are.
By all means start with the exchange of view points and investigate beliefs, likes, dislikes aspirations and so on. But do not be satisfied until it involves real contact.
William Shakespeare wrote:
"How weary,flat, stale and unprofitable seem to me all the uses of this world"
Don't settle for that.


Not written by EDMUNDO SLOTH.
Written by a real person behind the facade-for what is this other than that against which I rant?
Now, there's a paradox.

[Silke]

I think you raised a very important point here, and one that I have been pondering myself over the last couple of months. I've enjoyed playing online, doing tasks for people that I have never met in person, even building some sorts of relationships over the internet or phone. But I have to admit, as much fun as it was (and still is) I know I won't be happy until I find someone to explore in real life for most of the reasons that you stated yourself. There's always something missing...

Then again, some of the previous posters have fulfilling relationships outside of this medium and are merely looking to add to that by finding an online partner to live out certain fantasies or explore new territory. And that makes perfect sense to me, they have both...someone to touch, smell, taste and fulfill their needs, and someone to stimulate their mind and add another dimension, whatever that may be. You see, most of the posters here probably wouldn't settle for an ALL online relationship if there was no one there to come back to in r/l.

Others might just be looking for the substitute you're talking about, or they might have withdrawn into a fantasy world...

How about me? Well, I'm a single in r/l and I wish I had someone here with me, but I haven't found that special person as of yet and refuse to settle for less than I want and deserve. (yeah, guess I'm picky ;) ) So, I definitely fall into the "substitute category". And it's fine. It's a hell of a lot better than nothing...a very good substitute for the time being. I have a very creative fantasy and fill the gaps that mere virtual contact leaves. :)

The next question that comes up to me is what happens with my online life when I finally find a r/l partner and take my playing out of this environment and into reality? Will I give up on the fun and friends I've met here? Hell, NO! But I think my motivation and focus would change.

I really love your passionate plea for using all senses to paint the whole picture, EDMUNDOSLOTH...or whoever might be smiling through a small window in the facade. :)

Silke

[Brosco]

Edumdosloth,
I am sorry to say that your post judges anothers tastes with a clear lack of knowledge on the topic. First understand that very few internet relationships rely on the written word for communication - most use at least voice communication and some also add visual (webcam).


We have five senses and they are all used in a relationship of true depth. I will not subscribe to the way of thinking that says electronic transmissions of our intentions can be a substitute. Merely an imitation.


So if a person if deaf or blind in a r/l situation you suggest that they cannot have a fullfilling relationship??? They also only have an imitation? OMG .. who is sad?

Division between fantasy and reality? Come on now... do you suggest there is no place for fantasy? Are you so limited in your 'reallife' that fantasy isn't used?


I do not say that an on-line relationship is bad. I do point out that it is a pale substitute for a human one.

You may point out all you like that doesn't work for you - but don't dare suggest that you can speak for all others.

Brosco

[fantassy]

I say role playing because this is what an on-line relationship must be. It is not real. It does not involve body language and contact. It is devoid of most things that define us as human.


I must disagree. Although it CAN be, online does not HAVE to be role playing. Furthermore, I have had, and observed even more, real-life relationships which involved far more role playing. People often pretend to be what they believe the other will desire, even in real life. One must make a conscious effort. in either environment "to be real."

I further disagree with what you allege defines us as human. My brain is what defines me and makes me unique. Kindness, compassion, wit, reason, humor, empathy, insight, helpfulness - those are the traits I see as defining and desireable in humanity, and they all have to do with the brain, not the physical senses. My cats can see, hear, smell, touch and taste, but that doesn't make them human. (ok, they're almost human ....lol).

Perhaps the best response is your own Shakespeare. What is it that made Shakespeare great? - his words and insight into humanity - and that insight was about people's characters, not their physicality.

I'm not saying the 5 senses are unimportant - I certainly believe being able to hear Brosco enriches our experience, I'm just saying the 5 senses are not ALL-important. You cannot arouse me by using my 5 senses (no matter how hard you try) if you do not arouse my brain; however, Brosco can arouse me merely through words without using any of the 5 senses. But I will admit, I am an extreme case, heavily geared toward the mental aspect of things in all areas of life. As noted many times before in this forum, we are all individuals here - what works for one isn't going to work for everyone. So although it may not work for you, please don't dismiss it as lesser.

fantassy

[Brosco]

So although it may not work for you, please don't dismiss it as lesser.


This is the important part, not just for this thread, but for any topic that anyone cares to comment on. Express your own feelings and opinions about any topic, BUT, never assume that your own feelings are global or apply to all!

I am proud of what fantasssy and I achieve online. At times I even suspect we achieve more than many reallifers do. For anyone to suggest we just roleplay is an insult. LOL ... the hours of torture I sometimes put fantasssy thru is far from roleplay or fantasy and is far more than many could take in reallife. It is very real, and if you can't comprehend it, by all means say so - but please don't dismiss something just because it is beyond your own imagination.

Brosco

[Aesop]

I've kept my nose mostly out of this topic until now because for me it's a done deal. I have both and enjoy both and if they come up with something new I'll probably have that too. ;)

I have to say now that I am having a hard time understanding the....sensitivity? I suppose you could call it of some of the posters in the thread. It's almost as if you're debating religion or politics. I understand that blanket statements have set some people off, but those blanket statements are opinions being expressed, not laws being laid down.

To Brosco: You asked the question, my friend. To then state that someone not dare suggest something is rather close-minded of you I think. Edmund is entitled to his opinion that online is a pale comparison to r/l. Just as you are entitled to your opinion that you achieve more than many real-lifers do. Both inflamatory statements if heard through defensive ears.

Relax everybody. This has been a great topic, but let's remember we don'thave a wolf pack mentality here. ;)

[Aesop]

This is the important part, not just for this thread, but for any topic that anyone cares to comment on. Express your own feelings and opinions about any topic, BUT, never assume that your own feelings are global or apply to all!

One last thing Brosco. While I generally agree with that statement, people are free to believe that something "just doesn't work". One cannot express feelings that something just doesn't work in a singular fashion. By definition it is global.

[Brosco]

To Brosco: You asked the question, my friend. To then state that someone not dare suggest something is rather close-minded of you I think. Edmund is entitled to his opinion that online is a pale comparison to r/l. Just as you are entitled to your opinion that you achieve more than many real-lifers do. Both inflamatory statements if heard through defensive ears.



Aesop, I am truly sorry if you saw my post as imflamatory. It was definitely not my intention. I have tried very hard to express my opinions as exactly that - my opinion and what works for me. I never get 'defensive' about another expressing an opinion (no matter how negative to mine) providing that opinion is about themselves. I DO get defensive when people take opinions and tastes of their own and attempt to judge all others by it. I DO get defensive when someone belittles my tastes based on their own tastes.

I apologise for any disruption you feel I may have caused, but please check my posts again and you will see that I always expressed my views in the context of myself, not about others. You may also note that my 'defensive' reply was to a post that judged others.

Brosco

[Brosco]

One last thing Brosco. While I generally agree with that statement, people are free to believe that something "just doesn't work". One cannot express feelings that something just doesn't work in a singular fashion. By definition it is global.

I disagree. It is very easy for someone to state that something doesn't work for themselves without suggesting it couldn't possibly work for anyone.

[Aesop]

Aesop, I am truly sorry if you saw my post as imflamatory. It was definitely not my intention. I have tried very hard to express my opinions as exactly that - my opinion and what works for me. I never get 'defensive' about another expressing an opinion (no matter how negative to mine) providing that opinion is about themselves. I DO get defensive when people take opinions and tastes of their own and attempt to judge all others by it. I DO get defensive when someone belittles my tastes based on their own tastes.

I apologise for any disruption you feel I may have caused, but please check my posts again and you will see that I always expressed my views in the context of myself, not about others. You may also note that my 'defensive' reply was to a post that judged others.

Brosco

No need to apologize Brosco. While it's true that you express your views in the context of yourself, saying you have achieved something more than many real lifers is going to trigger the same kind of defensive response in some others that Edmund's post triggered in you and I have to say that while Edmund did indeed post his opinions globally he did not post them personally. You did in your responses. You are of course allowed to find his opinion offensive if you do, but I question the need to insult him.



I disagree. It is very easy for someone to state that something doesn't work for themselves without suggesting it couldn't possibly work for anyone.

You're right. I didn't say that though. I said they have a right to think something just doesn't work. Not just for themselves, but for anybody and that by definition is global.

This is the last I'll say on the matter as I don't think things have gotten that bad and want to keep the thread moving.

Have fun folks. :D

[Ozme52]

First up, it's not nice to use such profanity on a forum Oz. Keep using big words & I'll pick you up on your spelling! :)
Tojo


: razzleberry: :nana:

[Ozme52]

Without going through all posts to find all the quotes I need, I would like to summarize a little here. Oz, I can understand and accept that you believe that you need more. I would never try to convince you (or anyone else) that another can get all they need from an online relationship. My disagreement with you is that in several places you have taken your beliefs about yourself and stated them as fact for others. I have clearly stated that online is not for everyone, but attempted to explain how online is giving fantasssy and I all we need.

I guess what got me started was how the responses to my comment about my feelings... was disagreement. I read that as... "You're wrong for feeling that way." LOL So I probably was first to over react... but overall, and for the most part, I thought it a lively debate. I was just defending how I felt... not attacking how others felt, but admit to pressing your own comments in my own defense. Perhaps too much debate background...



I disagree with you on this. If I take your argument to its logical conclusion you are suggesting that a blind or deaf person is unable to have as satisfying a relationship as yourself. If you have ever had any dealings with a person who has lost one of their primary senses you quickly realise that their other senses have increased in capacity, the loss in one area is fully compensated by the other.


Hardly the "logical conclusion." But certainly a possible conclusion. I wouldn't say that a person who lacks or has lost one of the primary senses can't have a satisfying relationship. But I would say, without prejudice, it is different than what I experience. Who's to say it isn't in fact, better... save that, as I pointed out to Tojo, language is qualitative. Perhaps, an enhanced sense of touch provides a superior interaction.

Recent health studies point out the benefits of sex with a partner provides a health benefit that mere solo sexual release doesn't duplicate. It just supports my belief that evolution has made us a social animal, one that requires contact.

[Brosco]

Hardly the "logical conclusion." But certainly a possible conclusion. I wouldn't say that a person who lacks or has lost one of the primary senses can't have a satisfying relationship. But I would say, without prejudice, it is different than what I experience. Who's to say it isn't in fact, better... save that, as I pointed out to Tojo, language is qualitative. Perhaps, an enhanced sense of touch provides a superior interaction.

That is the only point I was trying to make. It is impossible to decide what is 'better' for another. It is impossible to say that 'what I have is better than someone else'. We can only decide for ourselves what is best for us.



Recent health studies point out the benefits of sex with a partner provides a health benefit that mere solo sexual release doesn't duplicate. It just supports my belief that evolution has made us a social animal, one that requires contact.

A recent survey found that 91.7531% of all statistics determined by surveys were inaccurate. :)
__________________

[Uncle_Ed]

Edumdosloth,
I am sorry to say that your post judges anothers tastes with a clear lack of knowledge on the topic. First understand that very few internet relationships rely on the written word for communication - most use at least voice communication and some also add visual (webcam).



Brosco
I have a right to state my opinion-indeed you asked me to by posting thread.
I said that my experience was sparse but I stand by what I said.
I am surprised that you are so defensive-why give a damn? I stated in another thread that if on-line works for you then great! Don't pay me any attention-enjoy your time on-line.
I will point out one thing though.
Above you are telling me you use voice and visual communication You are therefore getting as close as possible to R/l. Which is what I am trying to say all along-you are clearly a passionate human being and need to use your 5 senses.
In friendship.
Ed

[Brosco]

Brosco
I have a right to state my opinion-indeed you asked me to by posting thread.


Understand Ed, you have the right to any opinion, you have the right to disagree with me, you have the right to even pass stupid concepts as opinion, and I will not object. My only objection is with your previous posts where you stated opinion as fact. The fact that I posted an opinion does not give the right for another to attack me or my views. Just as you should not be attacked for stating your views. But I do seriously object to some of your post:


I have been participating in the general goings-on in this site for a very short time and have not come across chatrooms or role play areas before,

Online relationships are not roleplay - do not diminish them as such.


but I have come to see I cannot truly believe that a fully-formed human being can be satisfied by an on-line relationship.

If anyone can see that as anything but offensive I would like to see how!


I can grasp that on one level role-playing will provide a certain pleasure and form of escape. again, a real relationship is dismisssed as roleplaying in your mind. You are commenting on somethingh beyond your comprehension.


I say role playing because this is what an on-line relationship must be.
... and your source of reference is???? your lack of knowledge and experience truly shows.


It is not real. It does not involve body language and contact. It is devoid of most things that define us as human. fantasssy has already shown your definition of human failed. I noticed you failed to respond to her.


We have five senses and they are all used in a relationship of true depth So therefore a person that has lost one sense, say hearing or sight, is incapable of having a satisfying relationship?


I will not subscribe to the way of thinking that says electronic transmissions of our intentions can be a substitute. Merely an imitation.

I accept that it won't work for you, but don't call it an imitation for all others.


I will agree that such contact can be auto-erotic. The ideas sent out providing the sender with a thrill more than the recipiant. If you cannot actually see, hear, touch, smell or taste the other you can rely solely upon their statements-which you interpret from the written word alone and your own statements of feelings solely the written word???? do you have a clue about the topic you are responding to?


For what are two typists doing other than describing the way they wish their senses to react? Is it not better to actually have the senses stimulated? again..., do you know anything about this topic?


Please lets have clear division between reality and fantasy. Again, very offensive to imply I only have fantasy. Are you so limited in r/l that you wont use fantasy? I know I do in online, but that doesn't make all online fantasy.


What we read here is far removed from everyday life. Really??? I know several ppl in r/l relationships that use this because of busy work schedules, business travel etc.


I do not say that an on-line relationship is bad. I do point out that it is a pale substitute for a human one. It may be a pale substitute for you, in fact I feel sorry for you that you are incapable of adding it to your relatioinship, but regardless, just because something is inferior to you, does not make it so for others.

I have absolutely no problem with your disagreement with me. You are fully entitled to your opinion, but I am entitled to mine. And while you may argue against any opinion I hold, that does not give you the right to criticise me for my beliefs. I repeat:


but I have come to see I cannot truly believe that a fully-formed human being can be satisfied by an on-line relationship.

is a particularly offensive statement. I am a fully formed human being that has openly posted my views here for all to see. If you could not understand, all you had to do was ask.. but instead you just diminished and ridiculed.

Brosco

[Uncle_Ed]

*Sighs deeply*

In this world of kids communicating by text, "reality" TV and on-line relationships, Brosco I am clearly a dinosaur

But if that is the future I'm glad that I've lived out most of my four score and ten.

I'll leave you to your world.

[Brosco]

*Sighs deeply*

In this world of kids communicating by text, "reality" TV and on-line relationships, Brosco I am clearly a dinosaur

But if that is the future I'm glad that I've lived out most of my four score and ten.

I'll leave you to your world.

4 score and 10 makes you 90 y.o ... ok... i'm just a young pup of 57.

btw.. thank you for the apology of the remarks I found offensive... us youngsters have a lot of stock in those... I guess they weren't in your era!

[Brosco]

BTW Aesop, don't bother to warn me again, I won't bother exchanging with this clown (see his avatar) again.

It is very sad to see just after your 'wolf pack' post. I want all to realise that I have no problems with Ed's difference of opinion, but I do strongly object to his One-True-Way approach. I appreciate and accept what ever opinion Ed has for himself, but that does not mean it is right or the only way.

I will state very clearly that while ever I am accepted as a member here I will never accept someone forcing their opinions down the throats of others as fact. We each have our own D/s and its not for others to judge. Differing opinions are always welcome - but opinion stated as fact should be treated with the contempt it deserves.

I will even say that if Ed rephrased his posts as personal opinion there is value and content in what he has to say, but while ever he insists that his opinion is fact, he is just trying to be the leader of the wolf pack.

Ed... enjoy your One-True-Way, but please don't impose it on others. They will make their own choices.

Brosco

[submissivewife]

Brosco, this is the second of my threads that, with your words, have caused me to consider shutting down the thread. I will not do that. You bluntly flammed and it will NOT be tolerated.

[Aesop]

BTW Aesop, don't bother to warn me again, ...

Oh I won't.

[Rabbit1]

BTW Aesop, don't bother to warn me again, I won't bother exchanging with this clown (see his avatar) again.


difference of opinion is fine---but when you start geting personal with insults like name calling it is time for you to retire from the thread----

We can have a free exchange of ideas and opinions---without the name calling and getting personal ---no we will not close the thread ---but ban the member who can not control themselves and act like an adult on this adult board.

nuff said

[Silke]

Hmm, I really don't understand why tempers rose sky high with this. Just speaking for myself here ;)...but as long as there's no personal insult I can live happily with someone giving his take on things, be it absolute or not. After all it's my choice to accept this opinion, sit back an laugh about it in private and put an alternative approach up for discussion. Someone else's views are just that, however narrow minded I might find them...why not smile and be happy that you found something that works for yourself?

The only time I get defensive is when I find myself in a tight spot. ;) Again, this is ME, ok? Just making twice sure I'll get this point across...

Oh, and btw...I *love* your online relationship with fantassy and sit back in awe as to the results the two of you are getting. Not dreaming of wanting to diminish that. Especially you so generously share your experiences. :)

Silke

[Rabbit1]

Hmm, I really don't understand why tempers rose sky high with this. Just speaking for myself here ;)...but as long as there's no personal insult I can live happily with someone giving his take on things, be it absolute or not. After all it's my choice to accept this opinion, sit back an laugh about it in private and put an alternative approach up for discussion. Someone else's views are just that, however narrow minded I might find them...why not smile and be happy that you found something that works for yourself?

The only time I get defensive is when I find myself in a tight spot. ;) Again, this is ME, ok? Just making twice sure I'll get this point across...

Oh, and btw...I *love* your online relationship with fantassy and sit back in awe as to the results the two of you are getting. Not dreaming of wanting to diminish that. Especially you so generously share your experiences. :)

Silke

yep I agree --but when someone starts calling me a clown and stating my opinions are stupid ---I tend to get defensive---and I know others do ---why ask opinions unless you really want them---why not just ask for those who agree with you ----that is the way I think----it is fine to ask for an opinion and when you get one opposed to your way of thinking ---it is fine to rebut it but to call someone else stupid or a clown ---is the beginning of a flame war---and it will not happen here---

[novus56]

Hmm, I really don't understand why tempers rose sky high with this. Just speaking for myself here ;)...but as long as there's no personal insult I can live happily with someone giving his take on things, be it absolute or not. After all it's my choice to accept this opinion, sit back an laugh about it in private and put an alternative approach up for discussion. Someone else's views are just that, however narrow minded I might find them...why not smile and be happy that you found something that works for yourself?

The only time I get defensive is when I find myself in a tight spot. ;) Again, this is ME, ok? Just making twice sure I'll get this point across...

Oh, and btw...I *love* your online relationship with fantassy and sit back in awe as to the results the two of you are getting. Not dreaming of wanting to diminish that. Especially you so generously share your experiences. :)

Silke

First to Silke...Very well said! I always enjoy reading your thoughts on any topic you post on and this one I especially enjoyed and heartily agreed with. Just wanted you to know how much I appreciate your positive contributions here! :ty

As far as the thread, I can definitely understand why this topic raises passionate opinions on both sides of the issue. Having at this point, only experienced the lifestyle in the online realm, I have at times felt that R/t lifestylers have looked down their noses at my experiences and minimized the value of those experiences in comparison to their own. Someone once even remarked that she didn't believe I was sincere in my desire to practice BDSM or I'd immediately find a local public group and get involved R/t. Certainly that remark as well as the other perceived put downs felt a bit hurtful. But as has already been eloquently pointed out here, one can't allow hurt feelings to give rise to a loss of control and a surrender to flaming responses, otherwise the free and positive exchange of ideas in a forum such as this is impaired. I find value in pretty much every opinion of another person, even when the opinion may differ markedly from my own. There is always value in seeing a thing from a different perspective, even if you remain unpersuaded to change your own view of it. Actually, one of the things I value most about what I have learned of this lifestyle thus far, is the fact that those involved in it, generally seem more tolerant of others than I have experienced from people in general. Perhaps because we all have different kinks but we can in most cases, respect the kinks of others even though we might not share their enthusiasm for a particular activity. This broadening of perspective I learned from the lifestyle, has served to help me become more tolerant in general and I value that a great deal.

I do hope that in the near future I will have the opportunity to experience BDSM R/t, but until then I will continue to enjoy, value, and learn from, the online experiences that I feel fortunate to have the opportunity to participate in.

:278: novus

[Rabbit1]

Brosco in a PM to me expressed his wish to be banned from the entire forum

I gave him his wish

[Tojo]

Nice one novus. Yeah you can't change the world by beating it over the head.

Sorry to hear about Brosco, let's hope he cools down & apologises or whatever.

Live & let live I reckon. :cool17:

Tojo

[fantassy]

Sorry to hear about Brosco, let's hope he cools down & apologises or whatever.

Tojo

I'll pass your sentiment along to him, Tojo. We have discussed it, and he is going to accept his punishment tonight. <wink>:whip: :whip:

fantassy

[Uncle_Ed]

I am not arrogant enough to imagine that I was the cause of Brosco's decsion to leave as there is clearly a larger picture.
For what it is worth I am prepared to apologise unreservedly for any offence I caused and would like to state that it was not intentional.
I tried to couch my opinions in terms that I hoped would show that I was speaking for myself and I posted my opinion as I am both intrigued and shocked by the on-line relationship boom.
This is my problem and I stand up to say that I am not up to the task of having such a relationship myself. I do lack the mental capacity to convert the virtual into any meaningful reality for me. I had to leave the chatroom for a while to "re-group" while I reconciled chatting to my personal needs.
Should this affect others?
Yes-in my r/l world. I place a limit on my play in here for I feel to go further would be cheating on my wife.
In this virtual world its up to the individual to ignore me or pity me.Am I upset by comments about me?
Of course not. Ed is not real. . My stories are posted and open to review.My opinions are open to examination and change.
This is why I pose some questions in the r/l-v-on-line debate and hope that one of you will enlighten me:

You have an on-line relationship and discover your co-respondant lives across the street from you.

Do you want to meet?

If no-why not?

Am I missing something? Is there a fear of the physicality? Does the soft machine concept upset you?

I accept totally that it's the way in which we process and react to stimulii from our senses that defines our true humanity. But I do believe that I should be open to my partner on all levels-both physical and emotional-for the relationship to gain full depth. Perhaps I am shallow as I need the physical attraction as well to really commit myself?
Boy! If I'm looking at this from an inadequate angle I'm going to be really pissed that I've missed my chances.

[katie_21]

You know, I used to not believe in online relationships at all (D/s or any kind) But for some strange reason I've changed my mind about it. :) Maybe people that don't feel like online relationships can mean something, well maybe they've never experienced an online relationship.

Just saying that if I hadn't fell for someone online, I wouldn't believe in it either.

[Tojo]

I'll pass your sentiment along to him, Tojo. We have discussed it, and he is going to accept his punishment tonight. <wink>

fantassy

Thanks for that fantassy- I approve of your task. :)

Yeah it's a shame he chucked it in, see if you can sort him out. I'm sure he'll be missed, eh guys?


You know, I used to not believe in online relationships at all (D/s or any kind) But for some strange reason I've changed my mind about it.

Yes it's pretty darn nice eh Heather? :11_2_102:

Tojo

[Aesop]

Yeah it's a shame he chucked it in, see if you can sort him out. I'm sure he'll be missed, eh guys?

Yes he will.

[Ozme52]

I am not arrogant enough to imagine that I was the cause of Brosco's decsion to leave as there is clearly a larger picture.
For what it is worth I am prepared to apologise unreservedly for any offence I caused and would like to state that it was not intentional.
I tried to couch my opinions in terms that I hoped would show that I was speaking for myself and I posted my opinion as I am both intrigued and shocked by the on-line relationship boom.


No worries Edmundo. There's no onus on you. When you first chimed in I thought... finally someone who (more or less) agrees with me, without me having to press the fine are of debate. Up to that point I had thought it a lively discussion. Aesop thought it was getting heated and that was his perogative, (and as it turned out... Aesop was right, though I didn't see it coming.)

Your comments were so laden with "I that..." and "I this..." that it was obvious to me you were stating an opinion about how you felt about the topic as it related to you. I didn't read it as any kind of attack on anyone...

The response to that was over the top and I hope Brosco, whom I dearly like, comes to see that. You were unfairly, but more importantlym, personally attacked.

Since I feel I actually got Brosco wound up and you were the unfortunate enough to be standing between us at the time, I would like to offer my apologies to you. I see you as blameless in this.



This is why I pose some questions in the r/l-v-on-line debate and hope that one of you will enlighten me:

You have an on-line relationship and discover your co-respondant lives across the street from you.

Do you want to meet?

If no-why not?

Am I missing something? Is there a fear of the physicality? Does the soft machine concept upset you?

An interesting proposition. My base answer is yes. Because, as I've said, I believe in the need for human interaction. But I would have to consider the possibility that it could adversely cause problems within my current relationship. We made promises, nearly 30 years ago, that we would protect each other from any affairs we chose to engage in. We were very up front about that. So... another town... 30 miles away. Yes. Across the street, probably not, but for that one reason.

For me, there is no fear of the physicality.

As to the rest of what you wrote, quit cutting yourself down. We're all here to explore and learn...

[Ozme52]

You know, I used to not believe in online relationships at all (D/s or any kind) But for some strange reason I've changed my mind about it. :) Maybe people that don't feel like online relationships can mean something, well maybe they've never experienced an online relationship.

Just saying that if I hadn't fell for someone online, I wouldn't believe in it either.

I don't think it's for some "strange reason." Everyone changes as they go through life. In the past, written correspondance was the lifeblood of most budding relationships. That waned over time with 20th century telecommunications and the ability to travel anywhere in the world in a day instead of months...

The net is recreating the art of correspondance in a new way and as we become more comfortable with the net, our feelings about it will also change. That doesn't change my feelings about the/my desire to also make personal contact.

[Ozme52]

Yeah it's a shame he chucked it in, ... I'm sure he'll be missed, eh guys?

Tojo

You got that right Tojo.

[katie_21]

oh I was just being silly when I said "for some strange reason" Tojo knows I'm talking about him lol

[Ozme52]

oh I was just being silly when I said "for some strange reason" Tojo knows I'm talking about him lol


So I've come to gather.... his good fortune I must add.

[Tojo]

Yes I'd have to agree with that Oz. A lovely lady indeed- that Heather.

Just when you think things can't get any better, they usually do. :ty


Tojo

[Uncle_Ed]

Since I feel I actually got Brosco wound up and you were the unfortunate enough to be standing between us at the time, I would like to offer my apologies to you. I see you as blameless in this.



.

...
Oz,
Thanks for that. I appreciate your apology.
I do find it interesting that you understood I was stating an opinion. The misunderstanding that a lack of body language brings is one thing that worries me about this on-line business. I thought I was pretty good at putting my point across but I will try harder form now-that's my lack of experience here showing.

[Rabbit1]

It is great to see--an apology---when things get too heated ---my hats are off to those of you big enough to do so ----and I have suggested that if Brosco was willing to do the same --he would be reinstated ---I really did not want to ban him---it is the worst part of my job here---

so lets hope he cools down and comes around --because he will be missed

[submissivewife]

Yep, Brosco will be missed.

[Ozme52]

Oz,
Thanks for that. I appreciate your apology.
I do find it interesting that you understood I was stating an opinion. The misunderstanding that a lack of body language brings is one thing that worries me about this on-line business. I thought I was pretty good at putting my point across but I will try harder form now-that's my lack of experience here showing.

It took me a while to figure out that a lot of parenthetically embedded "IMO's" help, and when joking around, it never hurts to include a :) or a LOL. LOL

[Ozme52]

.. a joke I decided to take back...

[katie_21]

Yes I'd have to agree with that Oz. A lovely lady indeed- that Heather.

Just when you think things can't get any better, they usually do. :ty


Tojo

Hmm...I disagree with that, I think it's me that's the lucky one :)

[Tojo]

Thanks cutie- a match made in heaven indeed. :)

Guess that just goes to show online/phone can be pretty darn fulfilling for some? :cool17:

What'd I say the other day 'husbands & lovers may come & go but a Master is forever?'

Tojo

[submissivewife]

aaawwwww how cute!

[Ozme52]

They ought to get a room.....



....one with a webcam of course. *weg*

[katie_21]

My webcam scares me Oz, and thanks Tojo :)

[Ozme52]

Well I'm just funning with the two of you, Heather.

Don't be afraid of the cam. It's scared of the dark so if you throw a pillowcase over it, it shuts its eyes in fear. LOL

[Tojo]

Offer us enough money & you never know what you might see Oz?

We're both pretty cute! :noprobs:

Tojo

[Ozme52]

Offer us enough money & you never know what you might see Oz?

We're both pretty cute! :noprobs:

Tojo

I'm sure you're half right.

[katie_21]

I'm sure you're half right.


Yeah Tojo is the cute one.
Public webcam broadcasting?? lol....hmm....it's a possibility

[Master_GITRDONE]

Well Miss Heather, if that's you in your avatar, you can definately count me in! I'll be a regular viewer :)

[Tojo]

We're gonna be rich now missy! :)



Tojo

[katie_21]

Yes Gitrdone, that was me but Tojo requested that I change it for some reason lol.

[Master_GITRDONE]

aw to bad :( But you do resemble Katie Holmes alot though!

[Tojo]

Yes Gitrdone, that was me but Tojo requested that I change it for some reason lol.


I just don't want all the other guys seeing how gorgeous you are katie.

You're my pretty. Who needs the competition!:)


Tojo

[katie_21]

I don't think you'd have a problem with that Tojo