Domination...

[Kostly]

Ok,

I have been unemployeed for a long time... <this shouldnt come as a suprise since I am on all day>

Well today, I went down to the Wellfare office to get some foodstamps.

On my way out, I passed this big black man. He turns to me and starts talking about my Disrespect for him, because appartly I upset him by walking around him. Well I continued to tell him that I didnt have any respect for him, because he was nothing but a bully.

That TOTALLY pissed him off, and I was expecting a swing...

Now I am not big... and im not violent... and if it came down to it, I would have ran like a girl... But hell if I was going to let this guy just bully me.

I know that many people go to the welfare office right out of prision, and I expected the same from this fucker... but I was wondering, is that what domination is? or is that just beign a dumn fuck? Do you women Submissives find that Charming?

[BDSM_Tourguide]

Domination is not bullying. Bullying is abuse. Enough said.

[redEva]

Originally posted by Kostly
Do you women Submissives find that Charming?

NOT !

[Kostly]

I am talking about "Domination" as by its true definition... Without the added rules BDSM gives to it to avoid abuse... Hence you can still dominate and be abusive, just couldnt really call yourself a DOM as most of us would think of it.

www.dictionary.com

Domination
om·i·nate ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dm-nt)
v. dom·i·nat·ed, dom·i·nat·ing, dom·i·nates
v. tr.
To control, govern, or rule by superior authority or power: Successful leaders dominate events rather than react to them.
To exert a supreme, guiding influence on or over: Ambition dominated their lives.
To enjoy a commanding, controlling position in: a drug company that dominates the tranquilizer market.
To overlook from a height: a view from the cliffside chalet that dominates the valley.

v. intr.
To have or exert strong authority or mastery.
To be situated in or occupy a position that is more elevated or decidedly superior to others.

In truth, this big hairy freak is MUCH more dominate then I am or ever will be... He also seems to have some ANGER issues... But I am DEFINATELY ok with bolth of thoose.

[InnerTemptress]

i think that domination over anything requires a pre-requisite of respect. that which has a controlling position over anything has earned respect and has been given that control.

history show us that those that take control without respect and support don't really have it. what's the line? .. absolute power corrupts absolutely.

what this man did was not respectful. it was simply that he decided that he was entitled. that is not respect for a fellow human. and that, unfortunately, is what sustains stereotypes.

[redEva]

you asked if submissive women like bullies - and both TG and i answered NO! submissive derives pleasure of submitting and pleasing. having someone who is strong enough (in mind and/or body) to be able to control and punish if necessary. the point of submission is not to feel to pain, but rather to feel pride in being able to satisfy the Dominant, to give pleasure, even if that means suffering physical pain to prove your determination to give it all to that person. For His/Her pleasure! NOT to take abuse!

Dominants are not supposed to have a problem with anger management.

Yes women in general are drawn to those that exuberate power. Mental power, physical power, wealth. Why? Because they feel that they will be taken care of! Easy. That is why powerful politicians, economical tycoons, successful athletes are sexy.

Big Baboons, swinging fists and screaming – are not.

[Kostly]

I agree with you red...

Domination doesnt require Respect. For a relationship based on D/s in our societty it does.

But the Alpha Dog dominates the lower dogs, and they dont necassarily have respect for one and eachother.

I think people in the BDSM confuse Domination as always beign something that isnt abusive... When in Nature without society, Domination often goes hand to hand with abuse...

We as intellectual people can make the seperation for a healthy relationship and an abusive one.

---------------------------------------
That brings me to another point... Why is it that almost everyone in the Wellfare office is "UGLY". I mean, out of maybe 100+ people there, maybe only a few of them were "attractive".

I would say 90% of them needed to buy a tooth brush. I understand the lack of dental care afforded to the poor. But why is the poor in this country so overweight? Arent they suppose to be hungry?

I know, this is insensitive, but its also very honest...

[BDSM_Tourguide]

No. Change your line of thinking. Big does not equal dominant. Big just equals big. Yes, he might have been a hulking mass of hairy muscle. However, someone trained in quick bring-downs and holds, like a police officer, could probably put him on his ass in seconds. Physical strength and prowess do not equal dominance, except in a combative sense.

Dominance comes from just knowing that you can handle yourself and the people under you. It's about confidence. It's about self-esteem. It's about keeping your chin up and your bitch on the floor where she belongs.

You kick that big black guy in the kneecap and invert his patellar joint and look into his eyes while he's on the ground crying at you. Looking him in the eye shows your confidence in yourself and in your action. That measures a certain level of dominance in you. Sort of like in the wild kingdom. The bigger lion may not necessarily be the alpha cat, but the one that knows how to hendle himself will be.

See if he's dominant or if he just wants you to not hurt him anymore. BTG was in law-enforcement for awhile.




Originally posted by Kostly
In truth, this big hairy freak is MUCH more dominate then I am or ever will be... He also seems to have some ANGER issues... But I am DEFINATELY ok with bolth of thoose.

[Kostly]

True,

But it takes dominance to aproach and threaten someone like that.... It takes guts and a bit stupidity... Sure, I could have easily pulled out a gun and blew his head away... and I would have PROBABLY got pleasure out of seeing his brains spray accross the pavement... but does that make me more dominate?

I have always known that I am not an Alpha Male... I would much rather control the strings then be seen as the top man... I worry about everyone, and I do like to please... I know I am probably more submissive then most men, but I dont give in to idiots either...

But this guy was the oposite... He demanded Respect, even though he probably didnt have much for himself. He wanted to be seen as the top man... He was willing to put it all down on the line for this... He would FORCE domination over people who didnt agree to say yes sir.

Of course I stood up to him... but I was shaking in my boots. Without a weapon, I am just a pussy cat...

Unfortunately this doesnt dimish my role as a Dominate male when in a relationship with a women. Thats cause women tend to turn everything upside down, and inside out... I dont understand it, but I think that most of you would see me as a submissive...

I guess I see my dominance in my intellectual knowledge... But this also means that I am unwilling or smart enough not to:

a) brag about it
b) to try and force it

So In RL, I try and act like the submissive, all the while pulling what I can...

[Lord Thomas]

Quote of BDSM Tourguide

_______________________

....it is about ~knowing~...


I have to say that sums up being Dominant. You either know, or you do not. It is the mental state, the confidance in yourself and your own strength; not physical mass, that defines you as Dominant.

Huge guys with lots of muscles may have physical power, but that does not make them Dominant.

Kostly, the man you met, (using the term in its broadest possible scope based soley upon the fact he is homosapien sapien and male in gender) was as you said, a bully. Bullying has nothign at all to do with Domination. It has to do with apathy. One has to wonder if a person with such a mentality that they must force respect fromthose about them should be disdained or pitied. But definately not charming.

Oh, one more point Kostly, the bestt thing you cna do is stand up to a bully, it deprives them of thier coerced self importance. And, *grin*, even if they hit you it will only hurt til the pain stops anyway.

just my deranged pair of pennies.

[Kostly]

Originally posted by Lord Thomas

Oh, one more point Kostly, the bestt thing you cna do is stand up to a bully, it deprives them of thier coerced self importance. And, *grin*, even if they hit you it will only hurt til the pain stops anyway.

just my deranged pair of pennies.
If this guy hit me, I probably would have not been seeing straight for a long time if ever... This guy could have killed me... no joking... He looked like Mike Tyson... He was REALLY, REALLY, BIG.

[Lord Thomas]

Kostly, I have to appologise. You did do the right thing by not playing the idiot's game the way he wanted. I was not trying to belittle the threat to you that you put yourself in at all. I forget myself sometimes, in my profession we suffer minor pains all the time and thus that is a bit of joking jargon that I passed on. I definatley do not want to see anyone hurt permanently. Though I do beleive in the narcotic effect of dark humor, it works for me and my crushed foot anyway.

But more on track with the thread. You did not meet a Dom, you met a dumb, and there really is nothing as tragic as a dumb. *sigh* But the world dos seem to have a preponderance of them.

[Kostly]

Originally posted by Lord Thomas
Kostly, I have to appologise. You did do the right thing by not playing the idiot's game the way he wanted. I was not trying to belittle the threat to you that you put yourself in at all. I forget myself sometimes, in my profession we suffer minor pains all the time and thus that is a bit of joking jargon that I passed on. I definatley do not want to see anyone hurt permanently. Though I do beleive in the narcotic effect of dark humor, it works for me and my crushed foot anyway.

But more on track with the thread. You did not meet a Dom, you met a dumb, and there really is nothing as tragic as a dumb. *sigh* But the world dos seem to have a preponderance of them.

I was not taken aback by your response... In fact I too saw the dark humor in it, and you got a actual smile...


I look back at the event, and I knew I was in serous trouble... problem is, that I didnt step back... Even after he got RIGHT in my face and said "You said WHAT?" I only turned to him and said "You HEARD what I said"... I didnt back down... Even the people around the entrince took note and said "Its not Worth it"... But I still didnt back down... I asked him "Are you going to Hit me?" He didnt have much of an answer for that... Guess he relized that I was waiting for it, cause I would have liked to see him behind the left desk in the court room. I knew that if he swung at me and If I got away from it, that I didnt have much options. I was going to try and quickly snatch his throat... But if he made contact, I would have been out...

Some times I wish I had a gun, so that I could have pulled it out and said... "MAKE MY FUCKING DAY"...

Then again he would probably be so afraid to back down, that he would have taken the bullet. And then I would be in JAIL:(

[pam]

I've had people who knew me through business find it very hard to believe I could be sexually submissive, as I'm so dominant in business.

I can easily separate the two.

If I'm submissive in my business life, people would walk all over me and I'd not have gotten ahead and prospered. It wasn't easy but years ago I had to learn to stand up, stop blending into the shadows, and take charge.

Sexually, however, I'm a lousy dominant. I tried it ("lick my pussy slave -- please?") and was not good at it.

Size does not make one dominant. A close friend, who is six feet tall, has a Top who is 5'2".

Just because you're a bully does not mean you're dominant, it just means you're a dickhead.

:)

[Curtis]

I have to disagree with Kostly's comment, "But the Alpha dog dominates the lower dogs and they don't neccessarily have respect for one and each other."

I'm a BDSM virgin, but dogs I KNOW! Every once in a blue moon you'll run into a sociopathic dog who doesn't understand (or doesn't accept) the rules, but 99 dogs out of 100 respect and accept getting pinned by the Alpha and won't challenge it, even if they were Alphas in their own little pond before they ran into the Big Dog. (Though they might keep their distance for a couple of days until they get their new status straight in their mind.)

And you'll notice that pinning is all an Alpha has to do. I've never seen an Alpha hurt an underdog while establishing dominance (though I have seen a couple of sociopaths who tried to hurt the Alphas...and got hurt for their troubles).

There was one 'independant' who refused to either submit or dominate. The Alpha accepted this calmly, but when any of the underdogs tried to force her into the pecking order, she'd hurt them...bad...until the Alpha broke it up.

Although I mentioned the Big Dog, the Alpha is just as often a mid-sized female as a big male. The crazy ones are usually the small females. Technique is more important in being an Alpha than size, though of course size can help, too. (A good big dog can always take a good little dog...if he thinks it's worth bothering about.) A true Alpha is so quick and economical in her fighting that the other dog is pinned before they (or you) realize the fight has even started. Then they turn and walk away before the other dog can get their wits together.

I'll leave it to someone else to draw comparisons with human behavior.

By the way, Kostly, the way you describe yourself seems to match what would be called a Beta male in a baboon troop. You could look it up.

[passenger]

We are mammals and because of that fact we are behaving much more like dogs than we think, as Curtis describes them. But our ability to realize our own existance (we are the only animals who can commit suicide) gives us the ability to learn.
Therefore a Beta may become an Alpha a little easier than in Lassie's world (just a theory)

[woodsman'sgame]

Humans are much more complex than animals, so the roles we take, especially if we are intelligent humans, will change for many of us depending on the circumstances.

I am not normally dominant, but I can be dominant, very dominant in a working situation, if there is a need. Put me with a group of people who have a job to do and I see that no one is getting anything done then I take over immediately. I start odering everyone around, nicely, but still I get them moving and I get the job done.
But give me the chance to be a supervisor on a daily basis and I turn it down, immediately. I don't want to order people around on a daily basis.

Bully me and I cower. Bully my friend, a child, or someone weaker than you, and I'm all over you.

Sexually, I'm submissive and that's the most erotic play for me, but I can be very aggressive in vanilla sex and enjoy that too.

I'm sure I am not the only person who adjusts and takes on the role necessary at the time.

And back to the original thread. Kostly, the guy was a jerk. Being dominant had nothing to do with it. Treating people badly is not domination.

My son is an alpha male. Males immediately sense this and treat him accordingly. I have seen it happen over and over. He is huge, very strong, and carries himself with confidence. He is also very friendly, polite, and compassionate to all.