poll for deleting snuff stories

[hairdresser]

Hello,
I would like to say that the snuff category in stories should be removed... It hurts me a lot, and I don't understand why it is permitted to speak about that stuff on this site... It is going too far...
Regards
Hairdresser

[g42]

While I don't read the stories myself and don't appreciate them, there's no reason why they shouldn't be posted.

Someone who visits a BSDM (which is outside mainstrem sexuality) forum is, in my opinion, not one to be censoring others ebcause their judgemental. it's pure hypocracy. I can't stand hypocrasy.

because I love pieces of other poeple's thoughts, I'll pull out some quotes from my quotes file:

Chomksy says:
"If we don’t believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don’t believe in it at all"

Martha Grahm:
"Censorship is the height of vanity."

Samuel Johnson:
"I would rather be attacked than unnoticed. For the worst thing you can do to an author is to be silent as to his works."

"Thunder":
"If there's one thing you learn in BDSM, it's to be open minded. There's no such thing as weird - there's only spaces you don't appreciate."

What it comes down to is that there has been a lot of effort put into adding story codes to each story so that if you have a problem with snuff you can avoid it altogether.

Please don't allow your prejudices to influence the harmless passtimes of others. It's not your place or mine.

[GaryWilcox]

The idea of "snuff" comes from pornographic films, and the tittilation in it is that the actress is (supposedly) murdered in the making of the movie.

I have never seen such a movie; I wouldn't want to. The Movie 8MM disturbed me enough.

But these are just stories. The snuff contained in these stories is on par with watching a Friday the 13th movie, or one of the Halloween movies, where the killer murders sexually active young teens.

The only thing I can see a reason for me to boycott reading a story is autobiographical accounts by actual serial killers, like the disgusting shit that the woman who married Danny Rollings peddles. It isn't right to let them profit by the real sufferings of others. In fact, there's a law against it.

But, in order for me to have free speech, they have a right to post it. All I can resommend to you is, look for the story codes and ignore anything with Snuff on it.

[mickydoughty]

I am not a big fan of the snuff theme in stories, I do think that we can not censore it from the site. This site is open to a huge variety of tastes, if you look at the themes of the stories.

I think Voltaire (1759) was right when he said, "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

So if some one is willing to say it, then someone will be willing to listen, and BDSM is all about defending the right to say and do, so long as there is no harm, to that individual or others.

[Mokujin]

I personally would like them removed from the site, because I honestly can't see how killing women can seem erotic. And it seems a little extreme to me even in BDSM terms.


However, I guess that would be pretty unfair to those who do enjoy them.

So I just avoid them all together. There's plenty of great stories other than the snuff stories on this site.

[g42]

The thing is that there are a lot of people who would say they have a hard time figuring out how hurting another person or being hurt could be erotic.

What you have to do, ultimately, is remember that because you don't feel it doesn't mean no one does and doesn't mean it's necissarily wrong.

[ErikavonKZ]

I just wish to express my admiration for Gwen's replies here.

[g42]

hehe Thanks. :)

[VLMarquette]

Snuff?

Come now good people. I am going to assume by being here, that you all know how to read. And if you know how to read, then the bright red word 'snuff' that is in the story code's should be enough to warn you off. You don't want to read anything with snuff in it, then avoid those that have it in the codes. But do not, assume that you have the right to pick and choose what is appropriate for the rest of us.

I happen to write vampire novel's for this site, and in them, there is of course going to be snuff, I mean what blood sucking night walking story is complete without one or two death's? And if you don't want to read them, that won't hurt me. I happen to believe in freedom of speech and expression. Most assuredly in this type forum.

So if you don't want to read any snuff works, then just check out the code's and skip them.


V. L. Marquette.

[ErikavonKZ]

OK, so how about paedophilia (or pedophilia)?

[VLMarquette]

Snuff is one thing, but pedophile, is a whole different ball of wax. I list it right up there with scatology, which is gross, and wrong. Incest, I deal with in the books I write all the time, once again, dealing with vampire's it sort of comes with the territory, much like snuff. But children and sex, no, just not for me. Now, I am not condoning censorship here, but once again, that is why we have story code's. If one of the character's in the story is under say 13, that is pedophile, and should be listed as such. That way those of us who do not want to deal with that kind of material just skip right over it.


V. L. Marquette. (Ronnie)

[Tiger]

Ok, so here comes the issue of pedophile. Strictly speaking, stories containing any character under 18 is pedophile. But as stories or fantasies, teenage sex may not be offensive to many readers. So here the line is a bit blurred. Normally, we draw the line at 12-year-old in case of fictions. The story codes is one way to tell readers what's going on in a story. So if anyone see any story contains character(s) 12 or younger and it doesn't have the code "Pedophilia", please be sure to let me know and indicate where it is in the story. Thank you very much!

Jinn

[S_Couture]

Marquette, I wouldn't classify a vampire story as snuff. Lots of people get killed in Stephen King or Anne Rice books, but they are not snuff.

Snuff is killing someone for sexual titillation. I don't like it and while I'm against censorship; I would like to see some more kinder gentler stories posted. It's a drag seeing new stories posted, but then finding out they are about cannibals and other things that make me want to vomit. It ruins the mood.

[VLMarquette]

Okay, so you are right. I suppose I need to make sure that no other things I publish on this site, has the term snuff in the codes. As all the killings I have ever done in any of my work was not for sexual gratification. And as for cannibalism, that is about as nasty as it gets.



Ronnie.

[VLMarquette]

Just one more thing, and I will stop. As for the want of a gentler read, I happen to agree with that. I am as turned off as you are I am sure when all I see is cardboard characters, going through the same motions, over and over. That was one of the reasons I got into writing erotica to begin with. This was almost 9 years ago, long before this site. When all the erotica out there was take tab A insert it into slot B, or C, depending on the tastes of the reader, often. There was no plots, no story lines worth mentioning and all the characters were strictly one demential. This site is a godsend, it allows those of us who are/were, tired of mainstream adult paper backs a chance to open a whole new reality.


Ronnie

[kimberly]

i wish to comment on the post to *remove* snuff stories. while Master and i are not into that, i must say that removing them from the site would be unfair to M/many. W/we cannot control nor do W/we wish to make choices for O/others. some of the choices W/we make as Master/slave or S/soulmates, O/others may not find attractive either, but, W/we are free to explore, learn and love in O/our own lives. by simply not reading what does not interest U/us, W/we return again and again as satisfied M/members of this community.

kimberly{P}
Paul~k

[Marcus]

Last year I saw a film that glorified the person that

1) Removed somebody's gut's while he was still alive, then hung him.
2) Fed a person to pigs
3) Cooked a guy's brains while the victim was still alive.

and most sickeningly of all...
4) was attracted to Juliette Lewis

'Hannibal' was seen and salaciously enjoyed by many millions of ordinary people, (although not me).

I don't often enjoy films that glory in the deaths of innocent people particularly when they are presented as mainstream entertainment.

At least here we recognise that it represents a dark side of human sexuality instead of mass entertainment.

'Sexy death' stories are sometimes highly imaginative because they are so absurd. Aiken is one author that comes to mind. The artwork of Dolcett is likewise highly erotic and enjoyable despite the snuff (or roast) content.

So why we should get all 'hung up' on snuff stories on this site?

I say 'Live and Let Live' ;-)

Marcus

[Dragonfly]

Everyone's tastes are different and the clear labeling of stories means people can choose whether to read stories containing snuff or not. To remove them as many other people have alredy said would infringe on freedom of speech.
I also think there is a clear divide between the fantasy in the stoires and reality what might be considered erotic in a story by someone might be considered horrific in reality. There is a big difference there and fantasy is where anything can be safely considered. If these stories were deleted it wouldn't stop people having the ideas and writing them. People have the choice whether to read them or not and are unlikely to read what is clearly what they don't want to see.
As with all the other things mentioned.. paedophilia and scat for example make me personally feel a little sick to think about, but I don't think they should be removed.

[Marcus]

Firstly, welcome to the forum!

It's hardly Piccadilly Circus around here but in recent times the contributors are rational, intelligent and courteous.

I'm glad to report that most people here agree with your liberal view and have the ability to separate fantasy from reality.

I agree totally with your last comment!

Regards
M

[Tiger]

Originally posted by Dragonfly
Everyone's tastes are different and the clear labeling of stories means people can choose whether to read stories containing snuff or not. To remove them as many other people have alredy said would infringe on freedom of speech.
I also think there is a clear divide between the fantasy in the stoires and reality what might be considered erotic in a story by someone might be considered horrific in reality. There is a big difference there and fantasy is where anything can be safely considered. If these stories were deleted it wouldn't stop people having the ideas and writing them. People have the choice whether to read them or not and are unlikely to read what is clearly what they don't want to see.
As with all the other things mentioned.. paedophilia and scat for example make me personally feel a little sick to think about, but I don't think they should be removed.

Welcome aboard! And you got good point there. That's why the codes exist: they tell readers what's in the stories.

[sasha202]

Well, so much of what is written will not appeal to everyone. Luckily, the site owners have those handy little codes posted to let you know the content of what you are about to immerse yourself in.
If you don't like the subject matter (and I don't like snuff either) please don't read it. If anyone starts deleting stories that offend them, then ANY topic is now a target.
How fun would this site be if it was politically correct? It'd be as boring as the family channel.
To guarantee me being able to read the stories that I like, I have to vote to leave the snuff stories in. Luckily most of the writers of that type of story rarely ever leave the basements of their mother's homes where they all have been living their 40-some odd years. On the plus side, though, these people have memorized all the scripts of all the original episodes of Star Trek.

[LaJan]

Wow. What an interesting subject. I like almost all of the comments I've read regarding the topic, including the ones I disagree with. As a writer, I am leaning towards the anti-censorship argument simply because I don't think that responsible adults should need to be told what to do and what to not do. Personally, I can't find the eroticism in death (or even beatings intended to hurt the "victim") but I certainly write rape stories. If they are not intended to hurt the "victim", they're not rape stories, are they?

When I first saw this site, I thought of it as a perfect site: a place where someone is actively reading and approving ALL posts; a place where all sorts of likes and dislikes are allowed but coded for everyone's convenience; and a place where it's safe to say what you think about the posts without bruised feelings or nasty threats about honest comments. Then I saw the pedophilia code and froze. The first thing that went through my head was 'I bet that link is monitored 24/7 by every law enforcement agency in the world! Clicking on it (or posting anything with that code) would mean midnight pounding on your front door, impounded computers, and jail time while your name is dragged through the mud. Great way to catch real animals, isn't it?' Honestly, I was curious to see what is considered so dreadfully abhorrent. After all, "Lolita" was banned but seems pretty tame now. But that fear of getting either hooked into liking the stories or getting caught with a telltale cookie in my computer won out. Foolish? Probably. Prudent? Also probably.

Snuff stories are in the same category in my mind. They go places I don't even want to dream about going, certainly not fantasize about. But there seem to be some people who enjoy them and, ultimately, I don't feel I have the right to stop them. Someone mentioned scatological stories as "wrong" and I laughed out loud. Sure, they are "wrong" for that reader/writer. But are they "wrong" for everyone? I don't think so.

So I have to go with allowing something I hate to protect something I love. As a black and a member of the ACLU, I am getting used to fighting for things I personally despise! And as a writer for this and other sites, I will post my work right next to works with sexual practices I neither understand nor approve of. And I will continue to do so and regard maintaining choice for responsible adults as a much greater good.

Peace.

PS Will I click on the pedophilia link? Are you kidding? LOL!

[Tiger]

LaJan got a good point on that a responsible adult should know what he want to read or not. I want to emphasize it's READ. If you couldn't even think (for authors) or read (for readers), what freedom are we talking about? You can't punish someone for what he thinks, can you!

Underage sex, violence and people who enjoyed these activities are all over the places in the mainstream media: news, books, movies, etc.. So we shouldn't worry about to be arrested for what we think/read.

Well, to be honest, I do worry about it. If someday there were a law to forbid to think anything 'inappropriate', we would be all in trouble and this site would be closed for sure. Although this may not be happening, I can see some tendency toward that direction.

So when we are talking about our own freedom, please think if we give freedom to others.

Jinn

[VLMarquette]

BACK ON SNUFF AGAIN.

I was wrong, originally, when I had stated that my work was snuff. Oh the old def. of snuff is to kill, much like to wipe out. It became popular in the early to mid 1920s. Now it is a word that is connected to stories and movies that make an attempt to make murder sexy.

Now as for your quip about people that write these sorts of things having lived their 40+ years in their mother's basement, and knowing all the words to all the original Star Trek by heart. That is slanderous to those of us who do know and love Star Trek, and trust me, I have not lived in my mother's house since I was 16.

Ronnie

[agp_millie]

i work part time at the SFL, now, there, they have twice annual BBQ's where agps, like myself, are spitted and roasted.
Now, i was brought up to accept this as natural and when i become no further use as a hu-cow, i shall, no-doubt, be sent to the Abattoir. However, i had a choice. Either to spend a few extra years in good pasture and be a providor of milk, finally to be used as pet food, or to be BBQ'd at my 18th birthday and be BBQ'd alive for the palets of the other members of the SFL. Looking back, i envy the ones that many 'ooohhh'd!' and 'arrrr'd!' about, especially as with the friends i have, i would have been able to taste a part of my rump before passing out.

However my Fantasy takes me, i can do and write in appropiate places about/ or read. But in NO WAY would i like this to happen for real.!!!!

(well... maybe not .. [smiles])


bon appetite

[Venus]

Marquette,
I also think that Vampire erotica is NOT snuff. Whatever killings that happen in your stories are part of the plot and are NOT murders for sexual excitement. In the movies today there are many cold blooded murders depicted including rapes and murders, but they are not called snuff. In my understanding the idea of snuff is when there is no real plot, but only depiction of torture and murder for sexual excitement. I hope I am making sense, 'cause it's a very hard topic to describe and categorize. As far as I am concerned, there is nothing erotic about cold blooded murder. Sexual or not murder is still a murder to me.

[Tiger]

Thank Venus for the explanation of snuff. My understanding to this code is about the same. And agp_millie gave us a good example of snuff. Thank you both :)

[Venus]

no problem just thought to contribute a little. :)

[agp_millie]

Why should the VAST majority in this Planet have to suffer for the tiny minority?

i have enjoyed playing on this old pc. for several years and can, ok, possibly live in fantasy, but turn off anything i don't like!
It's quite easy, must be, because i can do it and i'm dumb.

So what is wrong with everyone expressing ideas, desires, even extreme, (What is Extreme?)

In my happy ignorance, i really enjoy the Net. and have never found a threat worse than Yahoo, ICQ, MSN, etc. (mucking this old pc machine, shoved in a corner of my kitchen), doing Their horrible thing with me. Naturally, it's not unreasonable to NOT accept under mature age for anything .. but after that .. it's all so funny .. if you saw the number of funny penises i've seen on guys cams, then you'll know it's gotta be fun.

mmmm ( i wish it was Research Trials, but that is beyond them)


xxx
millie

ps. ignore that strange person looking thru here, he'll go to bed soon.

[Taisho]

Erm...they are just stories, people. The crux of this argument seems to have shifted to questions of 'taste' when the debate should be whether posting a story here could be 'harmful' in that they might inspire someone to go out and commit these acts/crimes. If you believe the latter then probably 90% of the stories on this site should be banned. Also half the maistream novels and movies out there...

Snuff? Well, VLMarquette, your stories might not eroticise vampire snuff but the mainstream novels of Anne Rice certainly do! In 'Interview with the Vampire' (both movie and book) a young girl is slowly stripped naked at the Theatre des Vampires before a swarm of vampires fall upon her body to take all her blood...

agp_millie makes a good point about the 'spitting and roasting' genre being a highly erotic fantasy to many people (I assume she also refers to the stories on this site by 'Pick Up Man')

Paedophilia? At the story submission stage on this site there is a message not to submit 'child porn'. Can the site owners or anyone else please define 'child porn' as none is given. Some of the definitions in this thread even disagree. Stories involving under-12s? Under-13s? Under-18s? (In an erotic situation). In my country, sex with an under-16yo is illegal - perhaps its different in YOUR country so what are the accepted standards? Can mere fantasy stories be 'child porn'? Again, in my country 'child porn' must involve a real victim either through direct abuse or indirectly by downloading photos. Stories don't have an apparent actual victim but maybe you can tell me differently. Again, by some peoples standards, many of the stories that ARE posted here involve minors in a sexual situation - some of the most highly-rated stories in fact (eg Jane Marwood, katie lynch etc). So why were they accepted?

As far as I'm concerned these are just STORIES for adults so 'anything goes' as long as they are clearly coded.

[VLMarquette]

Went from Snuff to Paedophilia

Tight:

LOLL, I swear, go from one point to another in one shot. Thank you for agreeing with me that, even though there is death in my work, it is not snuff.

Now as for Pedophile, I live in a State that the age is pretty much solid. It is Pedophile, to have sexual relationships with a child under the age of 14. So it does not seem so strange that the youngest age in my state that a teen can wed is 14. So the stories that list teen in their codes are okay with me, matter of fact I have written a few of them. But it is under the age of 13, when a child is not a teen that is just not cool with me, so I do what every other intelligent reader on this site does. I see a code that I just do not wish to read about, I don't. I thought that was why the story codes were put into play to begin with. To offer those who read from the stories offered a choice in what they would and would not want to read.




Ronnie

[agp_millie]

I thought you all might be interested in a Fantasy Cyber that took place recently, with me and the Doctor BBQ, the Sexperimental Farm Laboratory's Chef.
(smile)
This is my Yahoo IM nic. of 'daisy mooe'

[agp_millie]

...
Part two was a few days later.
Wouldn't be too happy if it happened for real. But was a great Fantasy Cyber .. for me, anyway.

[Taisho]

Righteous:

Cheers for the reply, VLM :) Confused? Ermm...I was only responding to issues that had already been raised on this thread. 'Snuff' and 'Paedophilia' had already been linked here as controversial or 'squicky' story topics. In fact I already read another poster 'go from one point to another in one shot' and stick in 'scat' for good measure :) :

Quote VLMarquette:
'Snuff is one thing, but pedophile, is a whole different ball of wax. I list it right up there with scatology, which is gross, and wrong. Incest, I deal with in the books I write all the time, once again, dealing with vampire's it sort of comes with the territory, much like snuff'

Well good for you. But have you thought that some people might regard the stuff you write as 'gross'?? First you say your stories touch on snuff then you say they don't. Actually I love your 'Dark Love' series and I would still like to know what you think of Anne Rice's erotic snuff scenes...

The point I'm trying to make is what you think is 'gross and wrong' others might not. What you think is OK, others may consider 'gross'. Sex with a 14year-old is OK where you live and you admit writing stories about it but in large portions of the world it would be considered paedophilia. Get my drift?

I'm not being judgemental or attacking anyone - I'm just looking for answers in what seems a confused subject. Reason? I'm writing a couple of stories that involve 14-16 year-olds and I'm not sure whether to post them here.

Personal opinion; I think the message about not posting 'child porn' should be removed from the story submission page. Child porn involves actual abuse of a real person; not a story. The 'pedophile' story class should be scrapped and replaced with 'pre-teen'. Then we all know where we are.

Good luck.

T

PS, thanks for the kinda wonderful stream-of-consciousness cyber stuff, agp_millie

[veru_skjava]

*smiles* as she steps out of her lil shell

I am a clinical Social Worker, and would just like to go on record as defining pedophila

It is sex with a child under the age of 12!

Sex under the age of 16 is statutory rape, since it can be consensual but the law says it is irrelevant wether it is concensual or not.

Hope that clears things up a bit...

veru skjava

[bunnyrabbit48]

Okay, I just joined in, but I've been in thå BDSM circle for over 2 decades now. One of the things I like is hunt around in North America for BDSM party. In one of the party I went to in another city, the host was kind enough to provide a speech at the end of the party, more of a get together speech, and surprisingly, I learned something that I never forget and it's quite useful.

He said "make sure you don't express the opinion of 'Your kink is not my kink'", he went on and said "everyone has their own set of kinky fantasies, it is important that even we don't understand why some other's kink and fantasies is a turn-on, we have to respect it and keep the opinion to ourselves."

I don't like snuff stories neither, but if it is a fantasy, there is nothing wrong with it. I have heard a real story, however, from this radio show, "Rhona At Night", and this girl called in & said she only gets turn on by someone choking her by the throat. My guess is, due to the nature of the way a person's heart functions, the orgasm is more intense if she is being choked. Clearly it is a dangerous game. But there is a circle of that kind of kink around.

[VLMarquette]

I think we are rapidly moving away from Snuff and going on to other things.

Taisho:

First, when I said that in regard to DL, I was under the impression that snuff still meant what it meant in the 1920's, and not the glorified attempt to make murder sexy. And although in my state 14 is legal to have sex, if you read both of my BAC works, teem sex for a boy begins at 15 and for a young lady at 16.

And I still stand by my statement, that even though, I do not like many of the stories I see here, it all comes down to the fact and truth that unless we wish censorship to dictate our lives and thoughts. The approve or no, all things when written in fantasy must be allowed.


V.L. Marquette.

[Finding_Fantasy]

I agree, VLMarquette. My philosphy on all things (well most things) is if you don't like it, don't look. The descriptions of the works tells exacly what is contained in the story. Read them. If you don't think that the content is for you, don§t read it. However, if you don't agree with what is written, that doesn't mean that what is there should be denied to others that are interested in it.

Granted, snuff and stuff are not my bag of tricks, but who knows, perhaps I may get curious enough one of these days. I just don't feel censorship is warranted. I will repeat, if you don't like what the sotry contains...don't read it. Simple as that.

[Taisho]

Sounds like most of us are in agreement then!

Good Luck :)

T

[adderallrules]

please keep them. i don;t like all of them but the ones that i do, i like them very much. it almopst sounds like Tipper Gore is tring to get into the group. :0

[Mobius]

It is the altimate act of Submission.

Lose the Female Dom storys.
Big Turn off

[BDSM_Tourguide]

Originally posted by bbeale7
It is the altimate act of Submission.

Lose the Female Dom storys.
Big Turn off

It is NOT the ultimate act of submission to get oneself killed for one's or by one's dominant. The very idea that you would think so makes me wonder about you in terms of sanity.

I'm sure that at least some of the other 8000+ members of the site and forums would like the femdom stories kept right where they are.

[Mobius]

It does not have to be M/f I love F/f Allot more than Limp wristed
F/m

[BDSM_Tourguide]

Originally posted by bbeale7
It does not have to be M/f I love F/f Allot more than Limp wristed
F/m

And your point is what exactly? That you are god of all you survey and no one else's opinion matters to you in your supremacy.

As I said before, yours is not the only opinion here. If you don't like femdom stories, don't read them.

Case closed. Sayonara.

[Finding_Fantasy]

A man submitting to a woman should not be considered as a "sissy boy" thing to do. It is damned hard to submitt to someone. Just because someone wants to reliquish control of themselves does not mean they are weak? Do you think that because a female submits that she is weak? If you so, then that is the most chauvanistic view I have heard of yet. And like my Master said...you don't like it, don't read it. No one is forcing you!!! But if something like snuff is going to stay, the they sure as hell aren't going to get rid of F/m stories just because you find them dull.

[veru_skjava]

wow, haven't we discussed this, censoring one catagory, basically opens the doors to censoring all of them and then the site itself.

Codes are there, use em.


veru skjava

[Mobius]

what do you expect from a guy. Of course it is a chovanist statment.
I did say I found A women submiting to an other Women more erotic than a Man Dominating a Women.
It is only an Opinion not a mandate. No, I am not the Overlord.
I do not control this fine website. One of a very few that is Free.
I have supported this site and will in the future.

I am sorry but in my humble opinion A Man submiting to a woman is "Gay" Not that there is any thing wrong with that. as Sinfield said.

I guess I am a closet queer becouse I have Read quite a few forced fem storys and Like them.

Not that I would do that or try that.
I think it is more a Lesby thing than a power exchange.
On the issue of Snuff Storys to be truthfull. They are not that great. I can take or leave them.

But give me a story of an older women Dominating or controling a submissive yonger Female.
That turns my crank every time.

Again only a opinion

[veru_skjava]

What would you prefer, that the Dommes that are into men do then?

Reminds me of when people thought male nurses were "gay" and as a person hospitalized quite often, I love the male nurses, they are in my opinion more compassionate and gentle at times then some of the females.

Kink is individual, and neither right nor wrong. As is interest in what fiction we read.

veru skjava

[Mobius]

Do as they like. What ever makes them happy.
I was only stating my feelings. not any one elses.

[Finding_Fantasy]

I believe what got got up everyone's hackles was when you said "Lose the Female Dom storys.Big Turn off

To me, this makes it sound as if, just because you don't like them, they should be deleted. *shrugs* Same thing as wanting snuff deleted.

[Mobius]

I mearly gave my vote. And My vote is Fem Dom story's are Gay
and not very erotic, In my opinion.

No that is not a mandate.
I have no power over any one.
No one should feel threatened.
Yes of course I will not read what I do not find exiting.

Lets start a Poll on what ellaments every one finds exiting.
Every one has a little thing.
Some find a well turned ankle aluring
Some people find a dead rabbit hot (not me)

[veru_skjava]

laughing hard @ dead rabbit....

well ok and the ankle comment, as my master loves my ankles.. *smiles*

He also lives where the national and all time favorite dish is .... yep you guessed it...... rabbit (ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww)

just had to laugh...

veru skjava

[bunnyrabbit48]

Hey, who wants to chew me up and eat me?:D

[BruceBoxer]

Originally posted by bunnyrabbit48
Hey, who wants to chew me up and eat me?:D

I volunteer Bun!

[LaJan]

LMAO! This subject has sure gone to hell in a handbasket! I don't know what my definition of a "thread" was but rest assured it wasn't the tenuous filament connecting these disparate thoughts!

Someone mention a few people jumped off into differing subjects (such as the one a mentioned: pedophilia). While I didn’t find my comparison between like forms of censorship ‘wandering off the subject’, for the life of me I can’t find labeling male submissive fiction as “gay” related to the topic of banning snuff stories in any way, shape or form. Call me dense but this thread seems to be becoming rather ‘thread-bare’ the longer it’s allowed to digress.

The original subject remains relevant: should some form of censorship be allowed to permeate the hallowed realms of BDSM Library for any reason whatsoever. And again I state that responsible adults may choose what they wish to read, write or personally edit from their lives without denying others the right to do likewise. I have all sorts of personal likes and dislikes (none of which need be alliterated here); they are merely personal decisions to enjoy as the purview of my entertainment. I will assume that America’s highly cherished “freedom of choice” is honoured in cyberspace as if it were American soil (admittedly, a blatantly nationalistic bias but what the fuck? I’m a freakin’ American).

As for bbeale’s statement: “what do you expect from a guy. Of course it is a chovanist (sic) statment (sic)”, I find that manner of sexist ‘gender-grouping’ much more offensive than the original topic since I am both a male and a gentleman (albeit, one passionately interested in ‘rape fantasy’). But that’s just “my humble opinion…”

By the way, bunnyrabbit48, do I need to chew you to eat you or may I just savour you as I would an oyster? Just curious.:p

[VLMarquette]

bbeale7
This is a quote
__________________________________________________ _
You asked for an opinion, I gave one
what do you expect from a guy. Of course it is a chovanist statment.
I did say I found A women submiting to an other Women more erotic than a Man Dominating a Women.
It is only an Opinion not a mandate. No, I am not the Overlord.
I do not control this fine website. One of a very few that is Free.
I have supported this site and will in the future.

I am sorry but in my humble opinion A Man submiting to a woman is "Gay" Not that there is any thing wrong with that. as Sinfield said.

I guess I am a closet queer becouse I have Read quite a few forced fem storys and Like them.

Not that I would do that or try that.
I think it is more a Lesby thing than a power exchange.
On the issue of Snuff Storys to be truthfull. They are not that great. I can take or leave them.

But give me a story of an older women Dominating or controling a submissive yonger Female.
That turns my crank every time.

Again only a opinion

__________________________________________________ __

Well Dog.

Who would have ever thunk?

Okay, so maybe I was a way bit to hard on him. Sorry, I forget for a moment that this is all strictly opinions. And even though I do not agree with him, this sticky freedom of screech that we are all fighting to protect. Gives him the right to have an opinion that I do not agree with. So sorry friend. I'll sheath my claws and stop hissing at you.



LOL


Ronnie.












bbeale7

[write4jetc]

Actually, I have just thought twice about my comments; they were in response to these statements:

<<I did say I found A women submiting to an other Women more erotic than a Man Dominating a Women.

am sorry but in my humble opinion A Man submiting to a woman is "Gay" Not that there is any thing wrong with that. as Sinfield said.

I guess I am a closet queer becouse I have Read quite a few forced fem storys and Like them.

I think it is more a Lesby thing than a power exchange.>>

However, my comments would be even more off topic than these were, so I'll pass. I'm sure it'll come up again somewhere else.

[ootwee]

I don't like snuff fantasies. As long as I am informed beforehand and I am not surprised by them or lured into reading a story I see no reason to delete or refuse them.
But I am still repulsed even when thinking about it...
:( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

[VLMarquette]

[B]Let's Get Bacl To The Subject, Shall We???[/h


The question is still very much active, gentlefolk. Should we or should we not allow stories involving snuff to be welcome in this site?

And I still am going with the majority that still stand on free speech. Censorship is just a big ugly dog, that I don't think we should take out of his cage.

Okay, there, I think I've took the subject and turned to back around to where I think we should have stayed.

Now I'm not naming names, and Goddess knows I dragged this thread off more than once. But, hopefully, I think we can go back on with the subject.


V.L. Marquette.

[BruceBoxer]

I concur of no censorship--use the codes and don't read what you don't want to--kinda like how I turn off Rush Limbaugh when he's on a tirade...

[Mobius]

Originally posted by BruceBoxer
I concur of no censorship--use the codes and don't read what you don't want to--kinda like how I turn off Rush Limbaugh when he's on a tirade...

Ditto Keep the snuff and the gay F/m storys

[Finding_Fantasy]

I am of the opinion that if you have to delete one "offensive thing" then you have to delete them all. I am sure that there is one person who finds at least one thing offensive in the stories, and if we were to delete that subject everytime some had a problem...well the problem then would be no stories. :)

I agree, use the codes, get familiar with what they mean so that you can know what the stories involve BEFORE you open it. :)

[agp_millie]

What more can you say than agree 100%.

i had started to write a long speel but, what for?

i'm off to the Kennels now, then our Dairy. What a beautiful, sunny day.


Bye (smile) ... then the vegetable garden.

[VLMarquette]

Again a quote, and a rather good one at that.
_______________________
Keep everyting I am of the opinion that if you have to delete one "offensive thing" then you have to delete them all. I am sure that there is one person who finds at least one thing offensive in the stories, and if we were to delete that subject everytime some had a problem...well the problem then would be no stories.

I agree, use the codes, get familiar with what they mean so that you can know what the stories involve BEFORE you open it.


______________________


See that was blunt and to the point. Say what you mean, and mean what you say. I like that in a person.



V.L. Marquette

[Finding_Fantasy]

I always say what I mean and mean what I say....even if it gets me into trouble sometimes *chuckles* Basically, I can see it from a writer's point of view, even though I don't write erotica. I write what I like and there are sufficient amounts of people who like my work, so I keep on going, despite the nay-sayers

[VLMarquette]

This quoting everyone is getting a bit tiresome. But the only way I know that every one else knows what I am talking about is to quote. So I quote.
___________________________
I always say what I mean and mean what I say....even if it gets me into trouble sometimes *chuckles* Basically, I can see it from a writer's point of view, even though I don't write erotica. I write what I like and there are sufficient amounts of people who like my work, so I keep on going, despite the nay-sayers

__________________________________________________ __

Well I do happen to be a writer of erotica, and so I am personally interested in the censorship thing. No, I am not big on snuff, never could see anything sexy about it. But 'hey' what ever floats you boat, ya know?


ps. hon, I usually go by Ronnie, the only reason I signed off as V.L. Marquette is it somehow makes what ever I am saying look a tad more serious.


Ronnie

[drake7]

None of these stories are real. If they don't appeal to you (as they don't particularly appeal to me) then don't read them. To remove any stories from a site designed to let people write about "Kinky" things is, as the title of this post says, taking the "Kink" out of "Kinky".

Drake.

[agp_millie]

.
Unquestionably, the most wicked and gruesome story I have ever read in recent times is 'three ladies at sea' by Dante. I think it is available thru' BDSM Libraries.
At over 300kb. of many poor females being sexually destroyed for the apparent pleasure of the paying customers. Depicting horrid situations that I would NEVER even contemplate in real Life. Infact, I would probably end up deceased in a most unpleasant way. I read every brilliantly written word. Took a week and I guiltily enjoyed it.

Let the interminal saga of 'snuff' rage on. (smile)

[Spitman]

As a writer whose stories are coded in the snuff category, I want to say that I understand and sympathise with people who dislike reading extremely violent stories in which women are brutally attacked and killed. I feel the same way.

So why are my stories coded as snuff? My subject matter deals with stronger female fantasies, usually consensual or at least semi-consensual, where the outcome is often the death of a female character in the story. I don't feel that my writing is on the same planet as the more objectionable variety, but all the same, I want to give readers some warning, and snuff is the only code this site has available for that purpose.

I do object to the suggestion that 'snuff' material is necessarily badly written. Good writing exists in every category on this site, including 'snuff'. There is also a lot of stuff in that category that will not be to everyone's taste.

I also have codes that I avoid, such as 'scat' which instantly turns me off.

The reason for having a personal dislike for a particular story is not always a question of degree, but one of attitude or philosophy. I don't get on with stuff about abusing women, especially where a woman is abused for the selfish gratification of the abuser. The abuse does not have to involve mutilation or death for me to find it objectionable. I don't complain about it. I just avoid it, and I also avoid threads in the Forum that deal with things I don't like.

What I am interested in happens to be stuff that women like, and it is a fact that many women enjoy violent fantasies. Many prefer them non-consensual but consensual, submissive fantasies that emphasise the female perspective are far more interesting to me, psychologically.

Removing that kind of fantasy material entirely would remove stuff that is enjoyed by many people of both sexes. It is important to understand that these stories are fiction. They come from the imagination of the author, but cannot be assumed to represent the behaviour of the author in everyday life.

People enjoy these stories for the same kind of reasons that they like to watch horror movies, or go on scary rides in theme parks.

[LaJan]

Spitman, it's clear from your response that at least one of the snuff story writers writes well. I appreciate that you replied to this topic with such eloquence. (Did I spell that correctly? LOL!)

As another onf of those writers who write non-consensual stories, I agree with much of what you said. I have received numerous requests for private stories and some for public posts of that variety as well. However, I simply can't add anything like snuff into a story I write and I've never been asked to.

Obviously, the rape stories I have written and posted here involve brutality and violence. I'd be a fool not to admit as much. But I have yet to get a request for a person to be "killed". Are you saying that there are women you know that actually want to read about the death of a woman in a story? If so, you are getting requests or responses I certainly haven't seen. Regarding your writing not being "on the same planet as the more objectionable variety", I really wouldn't know since I can't compare stories I haven't read! But I'd love to hear your take on what makes a story one of "the more objectionable variety". Are there stories in here that deal with more violence than death??? LOL!

I find this comment: "The reason for having a personal dislike for a particular story is not always a question of degree, but one of attitude or philosophy" to be particularly apt since few people will disagree with it. It's just that the degree you write about is death. So, it would seem as though you truly see the opinions of the anti-snuff movement but fail to see that your argument is precisely the reason snuff stories are such dreaded stories for many people: there just isn't a commonly held philsophy that murder is a great turn-on, regardless of how well it's written.

Spitman, I, for one, appreciate hearing your opinion as I haven't heard too many of them from your point-of-view. In fact, yours is the ONLY one that actually makes the point without just hammering in a 'gut feeling' of preferences. Unfortunately, your opinion of the merits of snuff stories seems to be the only one available as well. Does that seem to indicate a serious amount of interest in reading or writing them?

I will never - EVER - begrudge your right to write whatever you choose to write and I appreciate the fact that you are careful to code your stories correctly. I simply see that you and I must agree to disagree on the worth of this form of freedom of expression. And long live our right to say and write whatever we choose.



As a writer whose stories are coded in the snuff category, I want to say that I understand and sympathise with people who dislike reading extremely violent stories in which women are brutally attacked and killed. I feel the same way.

So why are my stories coded as snuff? My subject matter deals with stronger female fantasies, usually consensual or at least semi-consensual, where the outcome is often the death of a female character in the story. I don't feel that my writing is on the same planet as the more objectionable variety, but all the same, I want to give readers some warning, and snuff is the only code this site has available for that purpose.

I do object to the suggestion that 'snuff' material is necessarily badly written. Good writing exists in every category on this site, including 'snuff'. There is also a lot of stuff in that category that will not be to everyone's taste.

I also have codes that I avoid, such as 'scat' which instantly turns me off.

The reason for having a personal dislike for a particular story is not always a question of degree, but one of attitude or philosophy. I don't get on with stuff about abusing women, especially where a woman is abused for the selfish gratification of the abuser. The abuse does not have to involve mutilation or death for me to find it objectionable. I don't complain about it. I just avoid it, and I also avoid threads in the Forum that deal with things I don't like.

What I am interested in happens to be stuff that women like, and it is a fact that many women enjoy violent fantasies. Many prefer them non-consensual but consensual, submissive fantasies that emphasise the female perspective are far more interesting to me, psychologically.

Removing that kind of fantasy material entirely would remove stuff that is enjoyed by many people of both sexes. It is important to understand that these stories are fiction. They come from the imagination of the author, but cannot be assumed to represent the behaviour of the author in everyday life.

People enjoy these stories for the same kind of reasons that they like to watch horror movies, or go on scary rides in theme parks.

[Curtis]

Something Spitman didn't mention in his post was that his snuff is consentual, involving people (usually women) who get turned on by being eaten. There are at least two other authors who post similar stories in the Library. Before I was directed to the Library, I found an entire site made up of nothing but cannibalism stories (mostly consentual). Hundreds of them. Unfortunately, I've lost the URL for it (and for a superhero S&M site).

[rob.wilson]

Is'nt "snuff" the ultimate limit? I seriously doubt anyone in their right mind would want to be killed for the sexual pleasure of another. Nor do I think anyone, again in their right mind, would want to kill someone for their sexual pleasure.

It's kind of like a rape fanasty, just because you have one does'nt mean your going to go out and rape someone - or want to be actually raped.

Some of the stories that involve snuff are pretty good, the Gor parody comes to mind, :p but some of it is truly awful. :eek:

Personally I find some of dolcetts artwork to be interesting, but have no desire to commit such acts.

[Warrior]

Ditto Keep the snuff and the gay F/m storys

:p F/m stories are not gay. Female + male = straight. And F/m stories are my favourite. There should be more of them, not less!

I say keep the snuff; just because it doesn't appeal to some doesn't mean those who enjoy reading/writing it should miss out. Snuff is a turn off for me, and I generally avoid it (not hard to do, there isn't that much of it). But I have read a couple (I have an open mind and like to read things at least once). Same with scat - it's a total turn off, but when mixed with a good long story with more enjoyable elements (such as F/m), it can add to the plot and character development (or be forgotten). And (very rarely) I will read a story with something I dislike as the main theme, just for the idea behind it (the idea has to be relatively new to me).


Is'nt "snuff" the ultimate limit? I seriously doubt anyone in their right mind would want to be killed for the sexual pleasure of another. Nor do I think anyone, again in their right mind, would want to kill someone for their sexual pleasure.

Too right mate, fantasy is a way of experiencing things which in ordinary life would be impossible or the consequences too undesirable. Murdering someone has the undesirable consequences of permanently damaging a healthy persons mind (take people who have gone to war) and the huge risk of life imprisonment. Therefore most murderers have damaged minds. The few who don't are ones who are of sound mind and convince themselves murder is the only way to protect themselves (and it really was the only way, i.e. they aren't paranoid). Pre-meditated murders (in peace-time) are often (if not always) done by people with damaged minds.

I believe that we should take away very few choices. Even then, most of the time we have only imposed negative consequences and haven't really taken away the choice (e.g. murder, people still CAN murder, but they CHOOSE not to).

NOTE: I have read a bit on philosophy and pyschology, but I am not a reliable source, so don't quote what I have written above as fact. :cool:

[Spitman]

LaJan,

You obviously haven't picked up that death and murder are not at all the same thing. Murder implies that someone has carried out a brutal attack on a victim, but death can occur without any such thing happening, and in the case of consensual participation in a scenario that results in death, there does not have to be another participant at all. However suicide does not describe it accurately either, since the participant may simply have a different priority, namely her own sexual gratification. I think that explains sufficiently well why my interest is very different from what anyone would justifiably describe as murder.

[Spitman]

Personally I find some of dolcetts artwork to be interesting, but have no desire to commit such acts.

Neither have I. The fact that you make that comment suggests that you expect erotic fiction to be a reflection of what you would do in everyday life.

This is all about fantasy. Fantasy does not have to have limits, precisely because it is not about anything that the writer, or the reader for that matter, might condone, be tempted to do or even take pleasure in, if it happened in the everyday world.

[AndrewBlack]

I agree, it's the 'fantasy' element that is key. I find a good snuff story very erotic, especially nc and nasty ones. For me it represents one of the most potent acts in erotic fiction, I can entirely divorce this from reality, (although I initially found my fantasies extremely disturbing) as I believe we define ourselves by what we DO rather than what we THINK and I find myself doing the opposite in real life. The way I see it is that you get the best of both worlds this way.

[redEva]

As with anything else here or in life in general – don’t like it? Don’t take part in it! For as long as it does not harm anyone (and written fantasy dos not!) why would we deprive those that do enjoy it? There is plenty I do not care for and that even disgust me. No one forces me to read. Everyone of us should enjoy what appeals to them and leave others to their own tastes.

[fetish101]

The only thing I can see a reason for me to boycott reading a story is autobiographical accounts by actual serial killers, like the disgusting shit that the woman who married Danny Rollings peddles. It isn't right to let them profit by the real sufferings of others. In fact, there's a law against it.

I was just reading through this thread again, and I think that law pertains to the actual criminals. There is no such law pertaining to an independent (even if she did marry him) to write a book and sell it. She did not commit the crimes.

[peachers]

i feel people should be aloud to post snuff stories
even thou i don t like most of them.
i have read a few stories with a small snuff content
and if in keeping with a storie line i feel it should be aloud.
we would lose a lot of good writers.

[putz]

I'd have to agree with your concerns about the level of violence that we see written. It is not much different than the level of violence that we see elsewhere in our culture. The written word has always been the most powerful of mediums, and the present is no different.

Luckily we were born free people and don't have to listen to or view things that disturb us or that we simply care to shut out. That's about personal choice and resposibility. Don't blame others for what you decided to view.

putz



Hello,
I would like to say that the snuff category in stories should be removed... It hurts me a lot, and I don't understand why it is permitted to speak about that stuff on this site... It is going too far...
Regards
Hairdresser

[GaryWilcox]

I was just reading through this thread again, and I think that law pertains to the actual criminals. There is no such law pertaining to an independent (even if she did marry him) to write a book and sell it. She did not commit the crimes.

She wrote a second book, after they lost in court on that book, on her own. So I guess she discovered the same law-skirting idea you mentioned and made US$10.50 for herself.

As I've said before, I've met her. If ever there was a human being deserving of death from a stray frozen block of urine falling from a commercial jet airliner, it is that horrible, goulish little woman.

That's what it is to be free. You have to take the obscene with pure, and manners aren't realy required. Good thing community standards don't behave that way. If I knew then what I know now, I would have refused any part in her work.

[Jane SC]

As with anything else here or in life in general – don’t like it? Don’t take part in it! For as long as it does not harm anyone (and written fantasy dos not!) why would we deprive those that do enjoy it? There is plenty I do not care for and that even disgust me. No one forces me to read. Everyone of us should enjoy what appeals to them and leave others to their own tastes.


Having just read through (most of) this thread, I have to agree with all that Gary says and also with my friend redEva; the above quote from her sums up my feelings perfectly.

Whatever fiction I read is my own choice. In real life, whatever happens between myself and my Owner in private is OUR choice and, as a snuff story might shock and horrify my mother, so my life with my Owner would have just the same effect. Thus, as she is a highly intelligent woman and has obviously 'read the preamble' to our lives, she almost certainly has a good idea about what goes on between Him and me. But she does not 'read the book' and choses not inquire about our private life in just the same way as I don't read stories or books which I feel would upset or nauseate me. It is a real life case of 'Live and Let Live'.

Mind you, the MOST horrific stuff I am forced to read are the questions posed in my tax return forms - no escaping those obscenities!! :eek:

Love
Jane.

[j]

Deleting snuff stories? Because they offend you? Well I'm offended by any story with a hairy twat. Start the deletion!

Jinn has the completely right idea of an open end repository. If he starts deleting on any criteria he'll also start assuming artistic responsibility for content. It's not as if they were actual murder confessions and/or incitations! Fiction is fiction.

[LaJan]

Hi Jeanne. I am new to most BDSM lifestyle practices but you certainly don't sound very "sub" to me! Could it be that you are forcefully located inside a teacher? LOL!

When this thread started, I thought it was meant to express a personal opinion and not expecting censorship to be the goal. Since that time, I have come to another conclusion: the first comments were stated to ask for the removal of a topic considered vilely offensive to some (possibly many) readers.

Sure, as soon as anything is removed based upon someone’s personal feelings of offensiveness, all things are in jeopardy of removal. The very nature of free speech is threatened by the slightest censorship.

However, this site as well as most others (and ALL the legal sites!) bans material each and every day because it contains child pornography – almost universally accepted as heinous and vile. Indeed, censorship is alive, well and actively promoted as the ONLY way to handle child pornography. Would you consider including such material for the sake of free speech? Would you consider its inclusion even if it weren’t illegal? Do your comments: (“It's not as if they were actual murder confessions and/or incitations [sic]! Fiction is fiction.”) consider that fictional child pornography need not be confessional yet is STILL offensive enough to remain illegal regardless of free speech rights?

As soon as the “magic words” are typed, the BDSMLibrary’s Administrator and Moderator(s) will need to interject and restate the site’s policy on child porn. I’m sorry this reply will make that necessary yet again, but it’s obvious that some things are simply not acceptable in any way, shape or form. So, for someone to be offended by snuff (or a hairy twat!) is a freedom of speech issue as well. Many of the responses to the original post were attacks of the rights of individuals to say whatever they choose to say. Yours was not. However, seeing both sides of the censorship debate (whether it’s about snuff or anything else) can’t be reduced to something as simple as ‘universal free speech’.

PS I happen to love twats of all persuasions so please let me know what you find offensive about the hairy ones. Seriously, I’d love to know. No bull. Really. Please?



Deleting snuff stories? Because they offend you? Well I'm offended by any story with a hairy twat. Start the deletion!

Jinn has the completely right idea of an open end repository. If he starts deleting on any criteria he'll also start assuming artistic responsibility for content. It's not as if they were actual murder confessions and/or incitations! Fiction is fiction.

[fetish101]

Child pornography: pictures or video depicting underage minors sexually. ie: actual kids, actual exploitation.

Writing stories about absolutely anything: Fictional content for the sole purpose of fantasy. ie: no real people, no exploitation of any kind.

It is my belief that no story should be censored on this site, even if it contained children 2 years old! I wouldn't be turned on by a story like that, and probably wouldn't read it (perhaps out of curiosity), but then again, like everyone has said, that is precisely why the story codes are there.

You cannot compare these two things, they just aren't the same thing at all!

Just because someone like Jeanne has opinions and is brave enough to stand up and be heard does not make her any less of a submissive. Submissive does not mean silent. Furthermore, she is not your submissive, so why should she be submissive to you or anyone other than her dominant?

[BDSM_Tourguide]

Sure, as soon as anything is removed based upon someone’s personal feelings of offensiveness, all things are in jeopardy of removal. The very nature of free speech is threatened by the slightest censorship.


You mean like the Pledge of Allegiance from pubic schools?



consider that fictional child pornography need not be confessional yet is STILL offensive enough to remain illegal regardless of free speech rights?


Child pornography means that an actual child must be either engaged in a sexual act or must be lewdly displayed. Animations or drawings of children, stories and prose featuring supposedly "underage" content is not illegal, in the sense that, since there is no model, there is no crime.

Certain images and depictions might violate local decency laws, but from a federal standpoint, as long as a real child is not used, the subject matter is legal.

However, to clarify BDSM Library's standpoint on this issue: Stories posted to the story site containing "young" characters are fine. However, child pictures, even including the legal ones (anime, tasteful nudes, etc) are not allowed on the forums or the photo library and will be removed and the member posting them will be banned without warning.

[BDSM_Tourguide]

Just because someone like Jeanne has opinions and is brave enough to stand up and be heard does not make her any less of a submissive. Submissive does not mean silent. Furthermore, she is not your submissive, so why should she be submissive to you or anyone other than her dominant?


Settle down. I doubt he meant anything by it.

[fetish101]

Settle down. I doubt he meant anything by it.

Yes..I really must watch how I post things. I didn't mean anything by it either, it just seems to come out that way. I think I'll spend more time reading how my posts come off, instead of how effectively I want to make my point.

[Spitman]

I don't know how we got onto this topic from 'poll for deleting snuff stories'.

By definition 'stories' are fiction, so the issue of illegal pictorial pornography does not arise, and although I have no doubt that there are snuff stories with young characters, that was not the issue raised in this thread. I think the original reason for starting this thread was a personal dislike of the idea of snuff as an acceptable category for erotic literature in the bdsm library.

It is rather like having a single vote to ban headscarves in schools, fox hunting, coloured ice cream and adult magazines, or not.

There are several threads already in existence that discuss various aspects of underage characters and their legality, and I'm sure there will be more. BDSM Library has a perfectly acceptable policy on that topic as has been explained here, but that has nothing to do with snuff stories.

[j]

I think Fetish has prefectly answered Lajan's first remarks to me. In my own personal collection, maintained for my own pleasure, I don't have any fiction with 2-year olds, but I would have no objection on seeing it on the Library. Seeing a video or photo would drive me to grab the phone.

I AM a sub, albeit with vividly expressed opinions.

And my fetish about hairy twats is (as far as I can fathom) a way of ensuring that, in any scene I vicariously enjoy, the 'victims' are not Ms Next Door Housewife, but a saucy slut who at least has the capacity to appreciate the erotic side of her predicament (even if she does not! and even if the depilation is quite recent - it does wonders for the girl's attitude). Also I think hair hinders the audience's sight and blunts the executioners' tools.

I always view with much favor stories where authors take care to offer bare-naked twats to the gentle attentions of sadists. This generally means the overall fun will be exquisite and imaginative.

Why should I not have my own prejudices, quirks and fetishes?

[BOBBY SHEPHERD]

I am new to posting on this forum although I have been a member for some time ,this is the first issue I feel like I should respond to.
I am an author and post on this site,I also write some Snuff stories.This does not mean that I do any of it in real life,or want anyone to do anything I write about.Everthing I write is FICTION.If my stories upset anyone I ask that they not read them.
When we start to censor things it reminds me of Nazi Germany and Adolf Hitler,first you burn the books and then you burn people.

[Curtis]

All right, people, let's try this again:

The person who started this thread -- TWO YEARS AGO -- has long since disappeared from the Forum and has no interest in our opinions. Jinn is not going to stop posting snuff stories to the Library, so why are so many people acting as though this is an actual issue?

There's no real debate, because everyone is on the same side of the issue (even LaJan, if I understand his post; he's seems to be debating a semantic point within Jeanne's post, not disagreeing with her general concept. I'm sure he'll be by to correct me if I got that wrong), and even if there was a debate, the decision has long since been made, so the debate that doesn't exist would be moot if it did exist.

I swear to God that the only reason you people show up to post every day is to see how high you can raise my blood pressure. I know! How about another rousing round of "Why Are BDSM Girls All Fat and Ugly"? Jesus! Here's a quarter -- go buy a clue!

[slavelucy]

Yes..I really must watch how I post things. I didn't mean anything by it either, it just seems to come out that way. I think I'll spend more time reading how my posts come off, instead of how effectively I want to make my point.

Actually Fetish, i agreed with what you said; i'm sure La Jan didn't mean anything by it, but if the definition of being a submissive is, in terms of this site and otherwise, to be silent and meek, then, er, i shall be forced to throw in the submissive towel!! :D

i kinda also agree with Curtis as well, everyone is all arguing roughly the same point and i'm starting to wonder if it's been done to death. *taps Curtis's blood pressure monitor* breathe dear, breathe!

sl

[fetish101]

I swear to God that the only reason you people show up to post every day is to see how high you can raise my blood pressure. I know! How about another rousing round of "Why Are BDSM Girls All Fat and Ugly"? Jesus! Here's a quarter -- go buy a clue!

calm down buddy, we're not violating any rules by continuing to talk on the issue. If you feel so strongly, here's my advice: don't open the thread. You know what's it's gonna be about when you open it, yet you still get mad. Curious.

[BOBBY SHEPHERD]

Thank you for your re.I knew it was a mistake as soon as I hit the submit button.So do not worry about me doing it again.I will keep my thoughts on this subject and all others to myself from now on.
THANK YOU

[redEva]

calm down buddy, we're not violating any rules by continuing to talk on the issue. If you feel so strongly, here's my advice: don't open the thread. You know what's it's gonna be about when you open it, yet you still get mad. Curious.

LOL @ fetish101

Originaly posted by East meets West Co. (http://www.eastmeetswestco.com/cgi-bin/CatalogMgr.cgi?cartID=b-6596&SearchField=category&SearchFor=0101&template=Htx/template-a.htx&hdrFile=Hdr/0101.txt)
The sociable and honest attributes of the Rat curb the impulsive and sometimes hot-tempered Aries.

Do be carefull ;) not to raise your own bloodpreasure!

[redEva]

Thank you for your re.I knew it was a mistake as soon as I hit the submit button.So do not worry about me doing it again.I will keep my thoughts on this subject and all others to myself from now on.
THANK YOU
HEY HEY HEY!
Open minded - is what we like to call our self! Sourpuss comments - they will always appear, does not mean they should keep you from posting - Gods know they do not stop way to many ppl even when they are valid.

Do you get discouraged when someone comments and says your story is no good? i hope not - cause i have seen rotten comments on the "classic" stories. In short! Don't give up on us Bobby - we are always happy to have writers take part in our discussions. And - if that means anything to you - I personally and most of the people that posted on this thread - AGREE with you!

so..... see you around!? :cool:

[fetish101]

LOL @ fetish101


Do be carefull ;) not to raise your own bloodpreasure!

My blood pressure?

[LaJan]

Thanks Curtis. You and the BDSM_Tourguide did capture the essence of what I was saying. But Curtis, the thread is ancient to you because you?ve been reading it for years. Those of us who have only recently joined the site (Is 2002 recent enough?) or are new to forums have never been over-exposed to this topic. (By the way, don't consider using Viagra with questionable blood pressure. That is a joke, all you serious-minded folks!*)

Maybe I'm the only one here old enough to have personally known the fervor regarding the book, "Lolita". As I recall, that (fictional) story was written about an under-aged sexual relationship. I don't seem to recall anything about the book being illustrated and, had it been so, it would have caused an entirely different controversy, as the movie did many years later. However, it (the book) was banned as child pornography simply by its written words. To call child porn only images of actual persons is to come dangerous close to being arrested for being in possession of illegal literature, thankfully no longer, Lolita. So, I believe my comparison of snuff literature to other banned literature remains valid: both are seen as objectionable to some people.

Regarding my comment about subs, as I said (with the clear indication that I was laughing), I know nothing about submissive lifestyles. Attacking my admission of ignorance is hardly necessary and seems redundant, doesn't it? LOL! (I'm 'Laughing Out Loud' at myself, just in case someone thinks I am foolish enough to repeat the previous misunderstanding). I was merely referring to the location jeanne states on her profile: teacher. Perhaps I'm twisted but that got a giggle out of me. In no way was my offhand comment meant to offend anyone in any way at any time. If my joke was taken that way, I humbly apologize.

I am shocked at how many people feel the need to explain that they don't kill other people because they read or write snuff stories. If we all needed to explain that 'fiction is not fact' every time we posted anything, this site would be buried in more explanations than stories and forum posts combined. LOL! (Please see above.) Of course, I don't believe snuff stories are any truer than my rape stories are true (with a few carefully explained exceptions). Nor do I believe that any type of fiction incites healthy persons to do unhealthy actions, no matter what they are. And yes, everyone is entitled to their hirsute preferences, whether it be crotches, armpits, lips, backs, arms, or tongues for that matter.

My point as 'devil's advocate' was so weirdly interpreted - especially in light of my literary contributions (including bestiality, under-aged homosexual sex, homo- and heterosexual rape, gang rape, humiliation, forced pregnancy, and horror [and that's in just one story]) - that I am afraid I may need to repeat BOBBY's contrite response! And to think what kind of comments and ratings my stories are going to get now? Can you say 'shitstorm'?

For the record, I am not now nor have I ever been in favour of banning anything used or enjoyed in the privacy of someone's home (*including doms and subs). Thus, anything written falls within the category of 'acceptable' to me. I will not enjoy many things written or depicted in images but I simply can't ignore the fact that I cherish my (our) freedoms.

*OK, I am banning myself from this thread for life. BOBBY, would you like some company in an uncontroversial thread like, oh... arson at nuclear power plants?

PS Using SpelChek totally screwed up my carefully typed response. If you see any stray question marks I missed, please assume they are some other type of punctuation. *Damned computerized technology.

LJ



All right, people, let's try this again:

The person who started this thread -- TWO YEARS AGO -- has long since disappeared from the Forum and has no interest in our opinions. Jinn is not going to stop posting snuff stories to the Library, so why are so many people acting as though this is an actual issue?

There's no real debate, because everyone is on the same side of the issue (even LaJan, if I understand his post; he's seems to be debating a semantic point within Jeanne's post, not disagreeing with her general concept. I'm sure he'll be by to correct me if I got that wrong)...

...the only reason you people show up to post every day is to see how high you can raise my blood pressure...

[fetish101]

Regarding my comment about subs, as I said (with the clear indication that I was laughing), I know nothing about submissive lifestyles. Attacking my admission of ignorance is hardly necessary and seems redundant, doesn't it? LOL! (I'm 'Laughing Out Loud' at myself, just in case someone thinks I am foolish enough to repeat the previous misunderstanding). I was merely referring to the location jeanne states on her profile: teacher. Perhaps I'm twisted but that got a giggle out of me. In no way was my offhand comment meant to offend anyone in any way at any time. If my joke was taken that way, I humbly apologize.

LJ

Yes...I realize that I too sounded way to serious in how I said that whole bit. I realized you were making a joke of sorts, but I did not realize you were simply referring to her being a teacher and a submissive at the same time (which is still not a contradiction..but whatever). I thought you were referring to her posting her opinion on the board, instead of being submissive and simply saying "yes sir". No need to apologize, in fact I'll apologize to you for being so serious about it all.

[BOBBY SHEPHERD]

Well I am going back on my promise to keep my mouth shut and my opinions to my self but I want to thank you for your kind words.I think I just opened my big mouth due to the fact that I seem to be fighting a running battle with the critics on this site.I started posting my stories several years and did not know there was such a thing on the site.Now for some reason I am getting all kind of flack from them,hell I know I am not a pro.I just write for the fun of it,and hope someone enjoys it.I am not out to win any awards,just have fun.So the censor thing just hit me the wrong way.Thought Police are a scary thought.

[Escritor]

:p F/m stories are not gay. Female + male = straight. And F/m stories are my favourite. There should be more of them, not less!


I totally agree and support that!! Bring in more F/m stories!

Regards

[Shaditu]

i dislike latex and i found *disturbing* images of extreme SM (real blood make me sick :( ) but i don't blame who like it.
I'm a woman and i like fantasies of rape,young sex and snuff stories.

So what? :confused:

Pedophilia and snuff are terrible things in the real life, but a story isn't the life.

In erotic imagination the lines between "good" and "evil", "pleasure" and "pain" faded.
Is because i think that these real crimes are horrible that i found them so exciting in the fiction!

I hope you could understand my point of view.

[themoog]

personaly i enjoy reading the snuff stories and also stories which feature rape or bestiality. i dont know why i enjoy them but i do and find it a turn on to read them. i certainly wouldnt do them in real life and dont agree with rape nor would i agree with snuff if it actually happens, bestiality im not sure about, some people get off by doing it for real, some dont, thats up to them.

themoog

"some so called open minds should be closed for repairs"

[agp_millie]

You are both absolutely right. And i'm speaking on behalf of the
Sexperimental Farm Laboratory, where, quite rightly, all worn out cows are disposed of, often in ways better than they deserve.

Having spent the last hour trying, unsuccessfully, dig out a story that was about an Ex. hucow who was given the task on Open Day, to be the guide AND meat at the event. The story was not only erotic and i soaked two towels, but in reality, errmm.. i'd turn it down.

Honestly.

xxx

[agp_millie]

.... Totally agree,

Snuff stories as with Aliens, ... mmmmm!

Seriously,
Altho' only one of the two stories encl. (As having delved into my best gorey stuff, it's all htm. ) Loved the encl. surely they don't offend any relaxed adult? Or do they?

xxx

[Robin Lane]

I would like to add my two cents to the subject of posting snuff stories on this BDSM Library site.

I have always been of the opinion that ANYONE who does not wish to view published material they regard as offensive always has the option to GO SOMEPLACE ELSE. Snuff does, within the realm of fiction, have a place. By it's most basic definition, it is simply homicide, which has had a place in fiction since the first humans ventured into caves to paint pictures on the walls thereof. As long as there have been stories to tell, some of those stories will involve homicide. If we regard snuff (which, for our purposes here, I will define as homicide in a sexual/erotic environment or situation) as being an improper depiction of human sexuality, then we might also regard depictions of assassinations as improper in political thrillers, or commercial murder in stories about Wall Street intrigue, and as long as there have been "Wild West" there have been masked banditos who rob banks and kill the bank teller. Homicide in the context of erotica is no more associated with real world sexuality than homicide in any other fictional context would be associated with a real life equivalent of that context.

I don't read a whole lot of snuff myself, and have only recently begun to write tales involving it, and then only because I have recently discovered the works of the artist Dolcett, and have developed an interest in the idea of consensual snuff. Most of what I have read concerning snuff, particularly on BDSM Library, is worthless, but I have also read some that is quite compelling and highly erotic. Does this mean that I have an urge to actually put someone in danger of loosing their life during my real life sexual encounters? Not in the slightest! Any sick person who really would want that does not need snuff fiction to put those fantasies into their head, and would likely engage in such behavior whether snuff erotica existed or not. I always make it clear when my stories involve snuff so that a reasonable person can make that choice.. Reasonable people in control of the own mental and physical faculties should be allowed to read any kind of published material they wish. While children should be protected from any exposure to erotica regardless of its context, there is no reason to restrain adult access to erotica or any other form of published material, fictional or otherwise.

Robin

[Spitman]

The origin of the term "snuff" has been described in this thread. It derived from films in which protagonists were actually murdered, which were then sold underground for the purpose of sexual gratification. Nothing on this site corresponds to this definition.

The use of the term "snuff" to describe fictional work in which a character is deliberately killed is not justified either. On that basis the entire works of authors such as Agatha Christie and Arthur Conan Doyle are snuff, and films such as Aliens and Lord of the Rings are snuff films. This is nonsense.

Sexually oriented, purely fictional fantasies in which the violent death of a protagonist occurs are widely represented on this site. Ordinary people who have no interest whatever in bdsm commonly enjoy fantasies of this kind. If somebody enjoys a fantasy, which is very much like a dream, it does not imply that they would actually want to act it out in real life. Our fantasies and dreams often depict things that we fear, or that horrify us, or excite us, but in no way represent our behaviour or intentions towards living people.

Personally I do not enjoy depictions of violent conduct, written for the purpose of sexual gratification, that appear to describe extreme real life sexual or physical abuse resulting in injury or death. It can be difficult to distinguish fantasy from a description of real life abuse. It is very difficult to come up with a technical distinction that works.

Some of the most exciting fantasies that ordinary people enjoy involve sexually violent death. The artist Dolcett remains an inspiration to many artists and writers of adult fantasy fiction. His artistic depictions of sexually oriented torture, execution and death are hard to confuse with any possible or even probable real life scenario, but highly effective in a fantasy context.

Story Codes are used on this site to help people find the stuff they like, and avoid the stuff they don't. It would defeat the object entirely if material in a Story Code category that some people didn't like was excluded entirely.

As a Story Code, the term "snuff" is used on this site in a much wider sense, where a fictional story involves the violent death of a protagonist, whether consensual or not. I do not see how anybody can reasonably argue that fiction should not deal with murder, even sexually motivated murder. Even if a story depicted an actual real life murder, it could be described as journalism. Many of my own stories involve what is technically suicide rather than murder.

I support the continued use of the "snuff" category, even though many people seem to confuse its use to depict fantasy fiction with the historical interpretation of the term.

[Ruby]

I support the continued use of the "snuff" category, even though many people seem to confuse its use to depict fantasy fiction with the historical interpretation of the term.

Agreed...now, let's see if we can convince more authors
who write snuff stories to add the code when submitting.

I could rant for ours about how I read a great story only to
have one of the key characters die. I would have liked a warning!

Or for purists, who argue that snuff is only death in a sexual context,
then perhaps we should request another code to be added.
Something like CD for character death.

That should help warn readers who may want to avoid these tales
or prepare themselves.

[Curtis]

Now that's not a bad idea. I'm always up for adding story codes. In fact, there's a thread in here somewhere about suggested additional codes....

[hmverrrr]

verdana
This is a tricky subject, for me anyway. Like snuff of old, taken as a pinch from a decorative box, should probably be left there most of the time, as sometimes its harsh and not very appealing (enough metaphors.. Ed).

I personally choose to avoid snuff topics mainly because they depress me, becasue not matter how cruel, consenting or forced, nobody should lose their life because of it.

There is a huge difference between gothic and vampyrical stories where someone loses their life from fantastical beings/creatures (pure fantasy) and brutal killings for a sexual thrill set in real life (truly scary, for me :-( ). There maybe cross-overs from pure fantastical thrillers (like Dracula) to modern settings, but they have the fundamental feeling of being fantastical... they would never happen in real life.

The snuff stories i have read here are well beyond that, and may show insights into a mind, some are even sad when read from the first person's view. The ones I don't like, (and don't neccesarily want to get rid of, or temper in any way, and prefer not to read) are unfeeling jumps into minds that are questionable in their motives...

Sorry, i'm warbling on :-) Its made me think about the difference between a loving BDSM relationship, a relationship with violence and torture, a randomn encouter, and snuff. Suppose my wildest thoughts don't go as far as someone being killed, and apart from context, in a BDSM world, i'm not sure i'd want to meet anyone that did...

Sorry for warbling, and hope i haven't upset anyone, its my first post.

:eek:

[Kalluss]

I am not the biggest fan of Snuff stories. In fact I dl'd my first one after reading the beginnings on this thread and have to say, while I enjoyed the story and writing in "High Heeled Hell" (to name one) it's not something that I'd want to read every day.

But, that can be said for every story on here by someone, somewhere. I guess I'm probably rambling, but there is saying from the holocaust about how no one stood up to protest as they were taking people away until there was no one left to stand when the speaker was taken.

Second amendment stuff is like that. In my book, you're either for everyone being able to say what they want, how they want, in the forum they want, or you're stepping onto that slippery slope.

The world is already a scary enough place. A place where it's necessary to have a "banned books week" at local libraries and book stores to remind people of what books people are trying to get off the shelves because they just don't agree with them. Being a YKIOK kinda guy, I never thought I'd see anyone on here calling for censorship.

Be afraid of the censors people, be very afraid.

[Cokera]

I never thought I'd see anyone on here calling for censorship.

I hear you there. Stories are stories. Fiction value is all in the scope of the writer and the reader. There should never be censorship for the written fantasys of the mind.

The sex life either.

[agp_millie]

In 3 parts, because of space....

Here's a snuff story that made me wet, except perhaps the VERY end. (smile)
ADULT only and not my fault if you are repulsed.

Part 1... Date rape.
Kristen had been on some odd dates before, but this one
took the cake. That was the price she accepted for using
that voice-mail dating service she'd seen advertised during
Oprah.

She'd talked to some real losers, and had gone out with the
few that seemed, at the very least, normal. Will turned out
not to be normal at all, though.

Sure, he looked nice enough in a suit and tie, but the hair
had to go, being long and black and just not taken care of
very well. His beard and mustache were unkempt as well.
There were just some things you couldn't tell about someone
over the phone. Kristen had decided to do the dinner and
movie thing, and then double lock her door and call the
police if he didn't drive away within thirty seconds.

The dinner had turned out to be seafood, and expensive
seafood at that. Instead of a movie, though, Will had
wanted to see some book on exhibition at the local museum.

Kristen had gotten a chill when she looked at the book,
standing next to him. Will had gazed at it longingly, as
though, for a moment, he had forgotten she was there.

"What... what is it?" she had asked, feeling oddly cold.

"The Deus ex Lexicon," he had replied, his eyes almost
glowing. "The God in the Book. Archaeologists have only
just located it at a site that used to be completely
underwater, thousands of years ago. It's thought to be a
companion to the Necronomicon, the Book of the Dead."

"Uh... right," Kristen had replied. She was amazed at all
the security around the place... it wasn't as if there were
jewels there, or anything! Still, she was glad enough to
leave.

Will couldn't stop talking about the creepy book, though.
"The Necronomicon," he said, "contained what were
supposedly spells and incantations for summoning beings of
great power. It detailed the worlds beyond, how to reach
them and control them. Some people think that it came from
somewhere beyond this planet and that it was the basic
guide in building earth."

"Uh... right," said Kristen. They were in the parking lot
now, and a light fog was coming in from the ocean. Not
entirely unseasonable for New England, but it added to the
chill.

"However, now, the Deus ex Lexicon," Will continued,
"supposedly describes the procedures for becoming a being
of great power. The spells, the incantations, the lot. It's
very powerful," he said, as they reached his car.

"Supposedly," corrected Kristen, as she sat down in the
passenger's seat.

"Hmmm? Oh, yes, right, it's SUPPOSEDLY very powerful," Will
said. He
patted his pocket, and looked worried. "Uh-oh. My glasses.
Can't drive without them. I must have left them inside. Why
don't you wait here? I'll just dash back and get them."

Kristen looked around the desolate parking lot, in the
dark, with the fog rolling in. "All right," she said. "Be
careful."

"Oh, I will," he said, as he dashed off. Kristen rolled up
the window, shut the door, and locked it. She kept her eyes
wide open, looking around. These doors weren't unlocking
for ANYTHING until Will got back. Maybe even after that. He
was getting kind of spooky...

Minutes later, Will returned, throwing something in the
back seat as he hurriedly got into the car. He was wearing
his glasses.

"Much better," he said, as he started the car. They moved
off very fast, much faster than he'd been driving all
night.

"Whoa!" said Kristen. "What's the hurry?"

"Oh, nothing much, really..." he said, as they pulled
several sharp turns. "It's just that...well, you said you
had to get home kind of early, so you could be into work
early tomorrow."

"Right," said Kristen, glad she'd thrown that into the
plans at the beginning of the evening.

"Well, if it's all right with you, I'd like to show you my
favorite spot. It'll just take a second... it's along the
beach. It would mean a lot to me..." He left it hanging, a
plea.

Kristen bit her lip. Just great. A nice deserted spot of
beach... in the dark, with a fog. Sounded to her like a
recipe for date-rape. But, she'd had a lot of karate in the
past two years, and Will just didn't look all that tough.
Plus, she didn't want to be accusing of him things he
hadn't done. He was a nice enough guy, just a little spooky
and greasy.


"All right," she said, "but only for a minute or two. I
need to get to the office early tomorrow."

"Great!" he said. Kristen studied his face carefully, and
decided she was probably safe. He didn't had the face of a
man who thought he was about to get laid. He had the face
of a man who was glad to be sharing something... special.
Maybe this wouldn't be so bad after all, thought Kristen.

The beach spot was, indeed, desolate. It sat on the side of
the interstate and looked out on dark ocean. With the fog,
and the clouds, it looked almost like the sands themselves
were black, but Kristen knew that was just a trick of the
light, or lack of it. She hoped.

It was scenic though, she had to admit. The tall, craggy
rocks that surrounded the little beach were magnificent
things, and the ocean coming up onto the beach had its
usual soothing effect on her. It smelled to high-heaven of
dead fish, though, she assumed that was normal.

Will took in a deep breath. "Bracing, isn't it?" he said.
Kristen could only nod, trying not to choke. They got out
of the car, and walked towards the beach, when Will turned
around, and kicked the sand.

"Jeez, of all the luck! A flat tire!" he said, heading back
towards the car. Kristen tensed... was this his ploy to get
her in a compromising position, say, bending over the
trunk, or lying on the ground to see where the jack went?
She braced for any suggestion he had, ready to run for the
road. Instead, Will opened his trunk.

"I thought it was handling kind of funny that last mile or
so. This'll take me a few minutes... sorry, Kristen. Don't
wander too far away while I change this, wouldn't want you
to get into any trouble or anything."

As she watched, astonished, he pulled out a jack, a tire-
iron, and a spare, and began to change the tire! If this
were a ruse to put her off her guard, it was a damn tiring
and elaborate one.

"I'll just be by the rocks, then," she said. Will only
nodded as he rolled up his shirt sleeves.

Kristen wandered closer to the water, rounding a big house
size rock and going out of sight of the car. She breathed a
sigh of relief, not too deep, because it still stank like
dead fish. She decided that Will wasn't such a bad guy...
just an unlucky one, and kind of a book geek. Still, she'd
keep trying the date-line, see if maybe one of the guys
from the ad on Oprah was actually available...

She reached that conclusion just before the monster grabbed
her.

The monster was ten feet tall and had tentacles arranged on
its body in ways that Kristen's mind could not comprehend,
and it smelled like dead fish too. Its huge fish-eyes
focused on her, and its slimy body moved on her as its
tentacles grabbed her around the waist.

The very appearance of the thing, the way it defied her
mind to piece together what it actually looked like, dazed
her senses. She passed out, not only from the sight of the
thing, the fear, and the smell of it, but as a defense
against trying to figure out what it was.

*

Kristen awoke flat on her back, unable to move. Whatever
she was lying on, it was an irregular hard surface and it
had sharp points that poked painfully into her back and
buttocks. She opened her eyes and saw that she was tied
down spread-eagled on one of the big flat rocks by the
ocean's edge... one that looked surprisingly like a table.
Will was standing over her, watching intently.

"Will! That thing! What... what's happening?"

Will stood and smiled. He lifted a black book front the
rock she was tied to. "The Necronomicon," he said, his
smile becoming cruel. "It's told me how to summon beings of
power, such as the Shoggoth that caught and bound you."

"The what? Will, what's going on? Get me off of this
fucking rock, now!"

Will shook his head, his eyes never leaving her. "I can't
do that, Kristen." He lifted a second book. "The Deus ex
Lexicon. I stole it from the museum when I went back for my
glasses. It tells me that I need you. I thought I might."

Kristen's senses reeled, but she laid her head back and
took stock of some facts. That book, the Deus ex Lexicon,
had been under some pretty heavy security. If Will had
stolen it that meant that he had some more stuff up his
sleeve than she'd thought. And, well, that HAD been a
goddam monster that grabbed her. Things beyond her ability
to comprehend were happening, and that scared her. A lot.

"What do you need me for, Will? What's happening?

He moved to stand beside her, and he stroked her hair. She
tried to pull her head away from his hand, but he only
moved his hand to follow her.

"I'm going to become a god, Kristen. Like the Lexicon says.
My mind, soul and life force will be in an indestructible
and immortal body of unimaginable power. I will provide the
mind and soul, and I will summon the creature that'll
provide the body. But they are going to be put together...
in your womb, Kristen."

Kristen pulled hard at the ropes on her wrists and ankles -
- they felt slimy, but they were very strong and very
tight. She couldn't budge. And before, she'd just been
worried about a date-rape! This was something else
entirely!


**** /2

[agp_millie]

2 of 4

"Will, this is crazy," Kristen said, as she struggled.
"This book stuff... its all make-believe! It can't really
happen! That's all in the movies, not real life! You've got
to believe me! It isn't going to happen!"

Will chuckled. "Kristen, you saw the Shoggoth I summoned to
bind you. Shall I summon him again?"

"NO!" said Kristen. "No, please, not that thing..."

"Then you DO believe that this 'book stuff' is real," said
Will. "You have no choice but to believe. You've seen it
with your own eyes."

Kristen pulled harder at the bonds. "But... but Will, don't
you need... need... a virgin, for this sort of thing? I'm
not, I swear to God, Will. I'm not a virgin!"

Will shrugged. "Doesn't matter. It's not like you're going
to be a sacrifice or anything. You're just a vessel,
Kristen. A mixing bowl. If I need a virgin to finish the
mix, I'll be able to collect one myself, once I've got my
new body."

Kristen struggled harder and harder. She looked at the
ropes binding her and realized they were some sort of
seaweed that was growing directly out of the rock. Reality
was taking a holiday, she realized, and it hadn't brought
her along. The terror began to set in.

"God, please, Will, don't do this... I'm too young for
this... I want to live, Will! Please, let me live!"

Will shrugged once more. "Sorry, Kristen. There will be
police and things before too long, because I had to kill
some people to get the book. I don't have time to find
another vessel. In fact, I don't have time to talk to you
any more. It's time I began."

"NO! No, PLEASE!" she screamed. "HELP! SOMEONE! HELP ME!"

Will ignored her. She realized they were too far from
civilization for anyone to hear her. Anyone that would help
her, that was.

Will lifted the first book, the Necronomicon, and stood at
the shore, the water lapping up around his ankles,
submerging his dress shoes. He began to speak in words
Kristen didn't understand, reciting in a singsong voice.
Somehow, he made the nonsense sound... evil.

Will's voice rose to a fever pitch. "IA IA! CTHULHU FTAGN!
IA IA! CTHULHU FTAGN!" he called into the waves.

The waves answered him. A massive shape rose from the
waters... nothing Kristen could recognize. It was just a
huge, dark shadow blotting out the fog-gray sky. And then,
it opened an eye the size of a Volkswagen, and Kristen
passed out once more from fright.

*

Kristen awoke to the feel of something cold against her
stomach. She opened her eyes to see Will cutting off her
knit top with a long, sharp knife.

"What... what's happening?" she asked, slowly becoming
aware. Will barely looked at her.

"We've struck a deal," he said, as he finished slicing open
the front of her sweater. He opened it wide, revealing her
taut stomach and her firm breasts in the lace bra she wore
for dates.

"Will, don't do this! Please!" her eyes scanned the
horizon, but she could see no sign of the great shape from
the waves. "Will, what'll happen I'm afraid?"

"First," said Will, as he started to slice open her skirt,
"The great old one will prepare me, bring my essences into
one place, for the implantation. Then, I will take you, on
this rock, placing my seed within you."

He sliced from the bottom hem of her skirt to her
waistband, and opened it, revealing her pantyhose. He
slipped his cold wet fingers into the elastic waistband of
these, and began slicing down her leg.

"And... and then what?" she asked, tensing, shivering as
she was stripped by this strange man.

"Then He will implant His seed into you. It won't kill you,
but you'll probably wish it would."

Kristen shuddered, tears pouring her cheeks. "Will, please,
don't do this to me! It's worse than rape, Will! Please,
just rape me! Just take me, and let me go! I won't fight,
Will, just... just rape me, I'll make it good Will, I
promise!"

Will chuckled as he slit the other leg of her pantyhose.
"Is that what you think this is all about? Rape? Do you
think all I want is to poke you with my prick, Kristen?"

He pulled off her ruined panty-hose, leaving her in just
her lacy bra and matching lacy panties. Then he put his
face close to hers.

"I stole the Necronomicon when I was twelve years old,
Kristen. I was fifteen before I understood any of it. Three
years, locked away in a dark room, barely eating, barely
drinking, barely sleeping. By the time I was finished with
it, I had power, Kristen. Real power!"

He grasped one of her breasts through her bra, and started
kneading it with his fingers, almost absently. Kristen
gasped at the unwanted touch.

"I wanted sex then, Kristen. And I got it. The Necronomicon
had given me power that you couldn't even dream of! I raped
women then, Kristen. A lot. Raped them, killed them, drank
their blood and offered them to the old ones. That's why
they're agreeing to make me a god, Kristen! I could have
had you at any time I wanted, Kristen!"

With a wrench, he tore her bra clean off. Kristen cried out
from the pain, and then again as his fingers dug into the
soft flesh of her breasts and crushed at them.

"You've been naked to me all along, Kristen. I've been
staring at your body all night, through your clothes. I've
been feeling you against me, from across the room. But this
is much more important than just sex, Kristen! This is for
Godhood!"

He moved between her legs, and ripped her panties free.
"There, Kristen. Now you're naked, defenseless, and you
know it. Unlike the rest of this night."

He stepped back towards the beach, and removed all of his
clothes. Kristen watched, tears pouring down her frightened
face, as he revealed a surprisingly well-built body, bereft
of fat, the muscles well defined and well developed. As she
watched, tentacles burst up from the sand, and surrounded
him, moving in on him.

"And now," he said, as the tentacles grasped his wrists and
ankles and held him crucified in the air, "it begins!"

He screamed, then, the scream of a man who is having his
soul ripped away. The scream tore into Kristen's ears and
she screamed along.

Tentacles with small, delicate tips forced themselves down
his throat, and the scream stopped, being replaced by a
choking, gagging sound that would not stop. Will's arms
were pulled out tightly, until Kristen could hear the sound
of the shoulders popping, a sickening gristle-tearing sound
that almost made her vomit. Will's long, well muscled legs
were spread wide, and Kristen found herself staring at the
horrible process, unable to take her eyes off it.

Will's body was suspended several feet in the air, the arms
twisted oddly at the shoulders, the head thrown back, mouth
full of wriggling tentacles, the legs spread wide, held
tightly around the knees and ankles by the tentacles. More
of the small, delicate tendrils slowly wrapped around his
flaccid cock, and began to stroke it, to squeeze it gently.
The tentacles looked slimy, and they seemed to lubricate
his cock, sliding along it, and despite the terrible pain
the body must have been experiencing, the cock began to
grow erect under the supernatural manipulations of those
tentacles!

Kristen watched as more tentacles gently stroked at his
balls, and between his legs. She watched the cock become
longer, and harder, and thicker than she imagined it
possibly could.

Then, there was another terrible ripping-gristle sound as
his legs were pulled wide, and out, and disjointed at the
hips. The gurgling, choking screams increased, but his
erection got even bigger! It was as though he was feeling
all of the pain as pleasure, and it was getting him very
horny and hard!

Kristen's eyes widened... she was unable to stop looking...
the terrible sight held her entranced, forcing her to
watch. She rationalized it... she was watching to find some
weakness, to find vulnerabilities; but in truth, she
finally admitted to herself, she watched to see what her
own fate would probably be.

Will's body turned, slightly, just enough for Kristen to
see the tip of a long tentacle plunge straight into his
helpless asshole! The whole disjointed body jerked hard at
the entry, and Kristen winced as she could see the tentacle
wasn't merely slithering into him, it was fucking his ass,
in and out, shunting back and forth. And still, his cock
grew.

The horrendous process continued for some minutes, and then
as suddenly as it had started, the tentacles withdrew from
his cock, mouth, and anus, and he was gently placed on the
ground. Tentacles arced over him and held him by the
wrists, elbows, ankles, and knees. His eyes were pure
white... the irises and pupils were just gone.

"Oh, god, NO!" she screamed. The tentacles moved the
soulless body closer to her, as though they were
manipulating a marionette... which, for all intents and
purposes was exactly what they were doing. She gazed at his
mutilated nakedness, and gasped... his balls were glowing
with an unearthly green light. All of him that mattered....
his mind, soul, and life force, was encapsulated there,
awaiting the moment when his body, manipulated by the 'old
one,' would spill it's seed into her, carrying with it all
of Will's essences too.

"Will? Oh, god, Will, STOP! PLEASE, NO!" she screamed, as
the body mounted the stone altar she was bound to. But Will
was beyond hearing... the body that knelt between her legs
was nothing more than a puppet to the entity under the
sand.

Kristen squirmed hard, pulling at the seaweed bonds on her
wrists and ankles harder than ever.... she had heard that
in times of stress, adrenaline could give you, for a
moment, the strength of ten men. However, it would have
taken more men than that to break her unearthly bonds.


*** /3

[agp_millie]

3 of 4 ...

She winced as the tip of that horribly huge cock brushed at
the outer lips of her pussy. It was at least twelve inches
long now, and the head had to be four inches thick! It was
still slimy from the touch of the tentacles, as well, and
Kristen wriggled her ass on the hard, sharp rock as best
she could, trying to move herself away from his cock,
trying to avoid the inevitable impalement!

But the body pressed down on her, and the tentacles guided
the disjointed arms to place Will's hands firmly on her
large, firm breasts. His body, and especially his breath,
smelled of the dead fish she'd been smelling all along. His
dead face hovered over hers, a hideous grin frozen on it.

"God, please help me," she whimpered, as the cold wet body
of Will began to thrust that monster cock into her
helplessly spread pussy. "GOD! OH, GOD, NO!
PLEASE, NO!"

Slowly, the head of that monstrous cock entered into her
tight slit, the slime from the tentacles making it just
slippery enough force its way in. Kristen's head snapped
back as she screamed from the pain, striking the rock and
bringing more pain. And still, the cock pushed into her.

"Please, please, please...." she whimpered, as the body
thrust its cock in and out of her. Finally, after several
minutes, it had pressed the whole length up between her
legs. Kristen writhed uncontrollably under the thing... the
cock had dug so long, that the tip of it pressed against
the very entrance to her womb! She closed her eyes, but the
fishy face was still over hers... she could not only smell
it, but she could feel the cold clammy skin.

Having achieved penetration, the body of Will began to fuck
her, plunging the length of that horrible cock into her
again and again. Kristen's defenseless body twitched and
squirmed and writhed, to no avail. "No... oh, please,
stop..." she repeated, over and over, in a tiny little-girl
voice that spoke volumes about how much of her sanity was
left to her.

The thrusting increased in intensity, and the sound of his
cold dead flesh slapping against her crotch resounded
across the desolate stretch of beach. Kristen began to
scream, repeatedly, on each thrust... wordless, meaningless
screams of pure pain and horror.

The loudest, though, was when the bones in his pelvic
region snapped, allowing him to ram his cock even deeper
into her, punching the head of his cock through her cervix
and directly into her womb. She screamed not only with the
pain of that penetration, but with the knowledge that the
contents of his monstrously engorged and glowing balls
would spill into her deepest recesses!

Finally the screams stopped, she took in air, and again,
wailed to the night sky... wailed as though her very soul
was being tortured to death. She didn't need to look to
know.... her belly had a vague glow to it, and she felt
very, very wet and slimy and full inside.

The body of Will jerked spasmodically on top of her several
times, then fell, collapsing to the ground, green mist
rising from the nose and mouth.

Kristen screamed for several minutes, then fell silent,
tears pouring down her face, knowing that the process was
only half over.

Kristen once again tried her bonds, as she lay there,
bruised between the legs and sore, and found, to her great
surprise, that she could pull her left hand free!

She pulled herself up as best she could and looked
around... the tentacles had withdrawn into the sand... she
was alone on the beach. Could she be so lucky? Could Will's
power to bind her be gone, with his body dead? Or, did she
have power over it now, because his essence was inside her?

No matter. She pulled with both hands at the bonds at her
right wrist, and that bond came loose as well! Heartened,
she bent down, and ignoring the pain of her recent rape,
she freed both of her feet.

She rolled off of the rock and into the sand. There, on her
hands and knees, she vomited, twice. The whole terror of
the night caught up to her again, and she glanced back at
the dead body of Will, eyes wide. Her hand went to her
stomach, and she shuddered.

"Abortion clinic," she thought. "Just get to one. Now!" she
said. A hospital might ask questions... questions to which
she had no answers. She would just go to someplace where
they took things out of people's wombs with no questions
asked. But she would need to take Will's car. And that
meant getting his keys.

Slowly, she stood, feeling very weak. She still had no idea
what was going on, or what had happened to the lovely
reality she had woken up in that morning. But she knew that
the clothes that Will had left near the water held the keys
that would take her back to her nice, normal life. She
walked over to them, and bent down to search through the
pockets.

That's when the tentacles re-emerged, grasping her wrists
and ankles. She screamed, and screamed louder as the
tentacles started to pull her into the water.

She threw herself backwards and tried to free herself... no
help. The tentacles merely lifted her clear of the ground,
and kicking and struggling, brought her up to her neck in
the black ocean.

"GOD! NO! HELP, ANYONE, HELP!" she screamed. She felt more
tentacles wrapping around her knees and elbows and waist,
under the water. Then, one grasped her head, around the
eyes.

"AAAAH! NO! NO! NmMmmphGkkkK!" she cried, as a tentacle
entered her open mouth, and pressed down into her throat!

She began to choke, to strangle, as she felt the cold water
of the ocean close over her head!

It was, in fact, worse than dying. She lived.

The tentacle in her throat kept her lungs inflated, not
allowing any air
to leave. Through some physical manipulation, it also kept
oxygen in her lungs, removing carbon dioxide as it built
up.

Several times, as she was pulled deeper and deeper, her
heart tried to stop... as is natural when the lungs find
they can no longer expand or contract. She suffered the
pain of suffocation, but not the release of death she so
richly graved. Every time her heart came close to stopping,
a tentacle squeezed her chest harshly, giving crude, but
effective CPR, until her labored heart continued beating,
continued to take the oxygen from her horrendously tortured
lungs to the rest of her helpless body.

Worst of all, she didn't pass out. She remained conscious
the whole time, aware of every detail of what was happening
to her. The pressure on her eardrums increased until the
pain was unbearable, and then, with a knife-thrust of
agony, the pain passed - the eardrums had burst.

The trip to wherever she was descending to took ten
minutes, and every second, she was praying to die.
Unfortunately for her, she lived.

She eventually felt soft, silty earth beneath her back, as
she came to rest on the sea floor. Her limbs were again
pulled to spread-eagled position, holding her helpless.

More tentacles converged on her, some encircling her large,
bobbing breasts, some stroking along her stomach and
between her thighs. The thing in the ocean needed energy
for the task that it was about to perform, and she was the
most ready supply. The thing ate fear and terror and pain,
and she was a three-course meal waiting to happen.

Tentacles stroked her face, her hair, her throat...
drinking in the terror, and the pain of suffocation,
occurring constantly in it's still choking victim. The
tentacle down her throat pulsed with excitement and
feeding, the delicate tip of it deliberately tickling the
inside of her esophagus, another maddening sensation that
brought more pain, more terror.

But the thing needed more. It sent another tentacle probing
between her legs, and she felt her legs lifted, bringing
her ass off of the seabed. Her mind, awash with terror and
agony, couldn't even guess at the meaning of this movement,
nor did it want to try.

Slowly, it pushed the tentacle into her helpless anus,
slowly twisting it into her, pressing past the resistance
of her sphincter without any effort at all. Kristen's mind
sang aloud in pain, all of the scream reflexes in her chest
and throat working, but no sound coming out of her
tortured, tentacle-clogged throat. The thing registered her
pain, terror, and humiliation as it pumped her ass with the
tentacle, fucking her hard in the butt, ripping and tearing
her with every thrust.

The creature got no satisfaction from sex, but it gained
great pleasure from pain. It enjoyed fucking her ass, and
it did so for a good long time, while she writhed
helplessly within its grip, making the occasionally
gurgling sound. The tentacles on her breasts pulled and
squeezed them roughly, adding ever more pain and terror.

/4

[agp_millie]

4 of 4 ...


Finally, the creature had built up enough reserves for the
main task. Summoning its strength, it slowly pushed a
tentacle up her helpless raped pussy, making the tentacle
big enough to hurt but not big enough to cause damage.
There was no in-and-out motion of a true fuck, but just the
inexorable pressure of the thing pressing upwards inside of
her, as she choked on the tentacle that kept her alive past
her time. Her heart tried to stop again, but that simply
would not do at this point, so the thing in the ocean
started her heart with several squeezes of another
tentacle, as the main one continued up her vagina.

Every nerve in her body shrieked with agony as the tentacle
roughly forced open her cervix, and began to ooze black
slime into her uterus. The tentacle up her ass pressed up
further, bending her insides to make room for the new
material.

Then, the thing stopped drinking her agony and fear, and
fed it instead to the insidious mixture in her body. And
the mix occurred.

Kristen had had some visions, when Will had explained what
would happen to her, of being pregnant for some time with
some monstrous child, and giving birth to a horrible
monster. Neither was the way it worked out. Instead, the
mixture assumed the size and shape of a fully grown adult
male, all at once. It tore out of her body in a great cloud
of blood under the water, and at last, she had her peace...
when Will made his Godhood, they broke the mold.

Will swam easily up to the surface, and got dressed. That
hadn't been quite as bad as he thought it would be, he
thought to himself.

He spotted his old body on the sand, and chuckled. A
Shoggoth would come along and collect that shortly, as well
as Kristen's clothes. Wouldn't do to have too many
questions asked.

He concentrated momentarily, and felt the great inner power
within him. He felt it hungry. Now, like the creature
below, he fed on pain, and terror. He liked getting laid,
too, which worked out well.

"You were good, Kristen," he said to the waves. "But I
don't think it's going to work out. I'm a god, and you're a
cloud of blood three hundred feet under the surface of the
Atlantic. I need someone else. But hey, we still be
friends?"

The ocean refused to answer him. He chuckled again, and got
into his car. It was time to move on, and feed. And so,
with a song in his heart that predated the earliest
memories of man, Will Whately drove down the road, looking
for fresh meat.

End

(smile) Hope you enjoyed. Bit different.

[TeasedWhispers]

Honestly its all a point of view if you don't like snuff then its better off that you don't read it,I may not care for it...but it doesn't matter to me either way.


Just one more thing, and I will stop. As for the want of a gentler read, I happen to agree with that. I am as turned off as you are I am sure when all I see is cardboard characters, going through the same motions, over and over. That was one of the reasons I got into writing erotica to begin with. This was almost 9 years ago, long before this site. When*all the erotica out there was take tab A insert it into slot B, or C, depending on the tastes of the reader, often. There was no plots, no story lines worth mentioning and all the characters were strictly one demential. This site is a godsend, it allows those of us who are/were, tired of mainstream adult paper backs a chance to open a whole new reality.


Ronnie

[Chuckdom19]

TV programs have ratings so you don't need to watch ones you don't wish to see. You have a channel switch, and can vote your unhappiness or approval with it.

Same here. If you don't like it, don't read it.

"I may disagree with what you say, but will fight to the death for your right to say it."

Censorship causes blindness.

Chksng

[j]

To me it seems clear enough that a story marked with a 'snuff' code is one where death occurs not as a mere plot device, but as a specifically erotic treat for the reader (all stories on this site, after all, are supposed to elicit erotic thrills of some kind or the other). I do not see any confusion with snuff movies (no real death was needed, unless the writer wrote a diary) and the word carries sufficient warning. Where there WOULD be a need for a specific code is in the case where corpses are the target of erotic attention ("necro") as quite a lot of people would feel distinctly ill at ease upon encountering such activities unannounced...

[MasterRJ]

(you know, sadly, I told my self I was gonna read every last post, but low and behold I got to page seven and I just stopped caring...so...)

Here's my two cents on stories that involve snuff and or kids. I use 'em both on internet RPs. I won't lie...I enjoy it. In one recent RP, thirteen year old Halie Moore is abducted by her brother and forced to live as his love slave only to awake and realise it was only a dream. There is a repeat of the dream before Halie goes to see a specialist. The specialist hypnotises her and controls her body, making her dreams worse. It is now that the dreams destroy her good childhood memories. Opening her pressents on Christmas morning she finds the heads of some of her family members and santa decides to play some reindeer games with out helpless heroine. The fact of the matter is, when I RP, my ultimate goal is to violate the psyche of the other person's character. What better way then to make her death a slow and painful sexually humiliating one? Aren't people of younger ages more sensitive to sex crimes? It's been said before, my kink isn't your kink. If my stories fantasies are too extreme for you then learn to deal. They are my fantasies.

[BOBBY SHEPHERD]

Having just read through (most of) this thread, I have to agree with all that Gary says and also with my friend redEva; the above quote from her sums up my feelings perfectly.

Whatever fiction I read is my own choice. In real life, whatever happens between myself and my Owner in private is OUR choice and, as a snuff story might shock and horrify my mother, so my life with my Owner would have just the same effect. Thus, as she is a highly intelligent woman and has obviously 'read the preamble' to our lives, she almost certainly has a good idea about what goes on between Him and me. But she does not 'read the book' and choses not inquire about our private life in just the same way as I don't read stories or books which I feel would upset or nauseate me. It is a real life case of 'Live and Let Live'.

Mind you, the MOST horrific stuff I am forced to read are the questions posed in my tax return forms - no escaping those obscenities!! :eek:

Love
Jane.

I am an author and I post on this site and several others .I write snuff and also write other stories and I feel I have the right to do this .One reason is THE BILL OF RIGHTS and the other is I served in combat and fought for that BILL OF RIGHTS.As long as what I write does no harm to another living person I feel it is my right to write what I want and your right to read what you want.So I agree with you.The last I heard the A.C.L.U. has not yet been successful in killing god and free speach in America.

[MasterRJ]

Ya know I think that crack at the ACLU was un-called for bud. We're not debating politics here, we're debating whether we ought to be allowed to kill our imagionary friends after we rape, beat, and torture them. Shame on you.

[BOBBY SHEPHERD]

Ya know I think that crack at the ACLU was un-called for bud. We're not debating politics here, we're debating whether we ought to be allowed to kill our imagionary friends after we rape, beat, and torture them. Shame on you.
Well there I go again.I am sorry Mr Webmaster that I expressed my opinion on one of the boards .I honestly thought it was an open dissussion board.I was wrong and this will be my last post .I also assum Mr Webmaster that I will no longer be allowed to post my stories on this site.Ahain I am sorry for geting on a Private Dissussion Board.

[MasterRJ]

What the hell...chill out man. I made a joke...no different then your little republican wise crack...and if you wanted to post a political opinion wouldn't it make more sense to post it on a political board?

[ProjectEuropa]

Hello,
I would like to say that the snuff category in stories should be removed... It hurts me a lot, and I don't understand why it is permitted to speak about that stuff on this site... It is going too far...
Regards
Hairdresser

Being totally against all censorship, I can't support it now. I can't say I can speak from any experience since I don't read snuff stories but I can't imagine there being any intellectual, artistic or entertainment value in them, though I suppose some people must think there is. If someone can enlighten and propose a snuff story worth reading for anything other than for the actual killing of a character I will read it.

I have written a story with murder involved but I'm assuming with snuff stories the aim is for one character to get some sort of sexual gratification from the actual act of killing with no moral weight attached. So I'm voting in ignorance but on the principle of free speech, no matter how distasteful the subject might be which I am supporting.

[MasterRJ]

The Perils of Pauline at Christmas

It leaves you with a certain empty feeling after you read it...and it brings you to remember that not every story's got a happy ending. Yeah...I read snuff.

[ProjectEuropa]

The Perils of Pauline at Christmas

It leaves you with a certain empty feeling after you read it...and it brings you to remember that not every story's got a happy ending. Yeah...I read snuff.

I'll read it. I assume it's in the library.

[MasterRJ]

Yes it is. I forget what the Author's name is though. Grr...so if you reply to this be sure to give him/her credit.

[ProjectEuropa]

Yes it is. I forget what the Author's name is though. Grr...so if you reply to this be sure to give him/her credit.

The Perils of Pauline at Christmas by Pagan

This isn't just a snuff story it a paedophile story too! I found it a little unnerving to read.

I still think banning stories like this won't make its content go away but as a father of a 13 year old girl I do find it objectionable.

[MasterRJ]

I don't. To me the story wasn't child rape, but instead the destruction of innocence it repressented. Let me also impart a question to you. A man fantasizes about raping a child. Let's face it, there are people like that. We read about them every day in the newspaper. But it's almost like the old saying for racism goes. There are three kinds of racists. The racist that ignores a black man and prettends he doesn't exist, the racist that spits on the black man and throws him to the ground, and the racist who helps him up and dusts off his shoulders saying 'can you beleive that asshole?' Certainly pedophellia and rape are too horrible attrocious crimes. Yet I find my self fantasizing about both. But I don't fantasize about harming any child I've ever met before. I use the stories on BDSM library as an outlet for that. So back to my scenario. A man uses these stories as an outlet for such fantasies...and they are banned. Then what? Are you really doing a service to the USA by taking a person with fantasies of rape, pedophellia, and even murder and taking away his means of expressing them? I don't think so personally...and I will continue to read said stories.

[ProjectEuropa]

I don't. To me the story wasn't child rape, but instead the destruction of innocence it repressented. .

I'll certainly agree with you in so far it's left for the reader to interpret the story. The author appears to have just put it out there and not made a value judgement.


Are you really doing a service to the USA by taking a person with fantasies of rape, pedophellia, and even murder and taking away his means of expressing them? I don't think so personally...and I will continue to read said stories.

I wouldn't censor it. I don't think censorship solves any problems and merely conseals a problem. It's certainly a point of debate as to whether fantasies satisfy a inner need and negates the need to make real those fantasies. However psychopaths don't empathise so no amount of trying to satisfy their fantasies will solve the problem. But point taken and as I have said, one worth a debate.

[Winnie]

I agree that for this site, and perhaps a lot of others, it is wrong to have any censorship. The one thing I would like is that certain codes to be more strongly advertised. Perhaps "Snuff" could be in blue, "Incest" in red and so on. Then it would be easier for the reader to choose. I do not like a story with that content and so not download it, or, of course, the opposite, Oh goody that has that scene in it, I must read that.
I also think that there is a difference between death, murder and snuff. Some of the most poingant stories have been about death. Virago Blue's story on ASSTR had me just about in tears for months. Nearly spoiled my Christmas, and I read it in November. But you could not code it "snuff". I cannot say I really like snuff, so I just don't download them.
(Sorry I cannot remember the title of the story, but it, or the synopsis, was something like " some times the bad guys win")
Winnie

[Alex Bragi]

I don't. To me the story wasn't child rape, but instead the destruction of innocence it represented. ... A man uses these stories as an outlet for such fantasies...and they are banned. Then what? Are you really doing a service to the USA by taking a person with fantasies of rape, paedophilia, and even murder and taking away his means of expressing them? I don't think so personally...and I will continue to read said stories.

You can veil it with what ever term you like - but it still won't change the fact - if it involves kids (innocents) in any kind of sexual act for the enjoyment of adults (readers or viewers), then it's kiddy porn. Whether, or not, you're a paedophile because you enjoy reading about it, or viewing images of it, is debateable.

I read about the downfall of internet porn king, Tom Reedy. His defence was – the photographs posted, which shocked and distressed hardened Dallas police - were computer generated, no children were physically involved or harmed. Is a picture more offensive than a story? Stories and computer-generated pics are both creations of someone's imagination.

I know, some people will argue - "What's difference between kiddy porn and watching, or reading, about fictional violence and murder?” Well, there are differences. When we read, or view, something sexual it stimulates one of our most primal urges - to have sexual intercourse. The 'excitement' we derive from watching fictional violence is totally different. The vast majority of us, thankfully, will simple get a morbid thrill of schadenfreude from the victim, but we certainly won't fully relate, or associate, with the perpetrator.


...I also think that there is a difference between death, murder and snuff...

Absolutely, yes. Death is very broad. Murder is the taking of a life. And, snuff is even more specific, again. It’s killing for the purpose of titillation. And so, and that’s what makes it such a controversial genre. It's because it's a mixing of a purely natural instinct with one that is not. The real and the unreal if you like.

Personally, I don't like snuff or kiddy porn; so, the solution I find is to not read it.

[Mobius]

While I have not read all the new post on the subject.
I thought that this was all settled back in 2002 with the determination of:

List of codes
A warning of strong content
and if you dont like such storys dont read them.

To me It is settled

but what ever

For my continued 2 cents 4 cent with inflation.

While I like to read storys like high heal hell and other things like that.

I am not very aroused by them

Nuf sead.

[Alex Bragi]

While I have not read all the new post on the subject.
I thought that this was all settled back in 2002 with the determination of...

You're not suggesting the topic should be censored or quashed are you? ;)

[Mobius]

You're not suggesting the topic should be censored or quashed are you? ;)


No of course not. I was only sugesting that it mearly expire of old age that is all.

[csr]

No of course not. I was only sugesting that it mearly expire of old age that is all.

Even if the "issue" was settled in 2002, the topic of this thread is one that can and does incite interesting discussions and debates. If it's feeling tired to you, it's your choice to not read it. Also, many of the most prolific posters right now joined in 2004--so should they not voice an opinion on a topic of discussion that predates their visits to the board? This topic is controversial to say the very least, which to me makes it still interesting to read. If we wanted to have some REAL fun, we could merge the thread with the bonsaikitten.com thread and watch the sparks fly, lol. :D

[Ruby]

If we wanted to have some REAL fun, we could merge the thread with the bonsaikitten.com thread and watch the sparks fly, lol. :D

No, please, not that! Anything but that! Anything? Well... :p

Regarding this thread: I often drop by to read what others are saying. There are some great discussions in here about the differences between snuff, murder, etc.

Enough that we might want to consider requesting for new story codes:
Murder
Character Death
??? - I'm sure the rest of you could come up with others

Not so much to give away the plot of the story, but to warn readers what they might find.

Thanks for the insights everyone.

[MasterRJ]

Boy did my comments get eaten alive O.O

Oh well. I stand for what I beleive in. It's unethical to censor a person's line of thinking. Therefore fantasies shouldn't be censored. Therefore erotic literature, which is typically nothing more than the Auther's sexual fantasies, shouldn't be censored either.

Am I the only one who's sad that Arthur Miller died? The Crucible was such an awesome play...

[boccaccio2000g]

Boy did my comments get eaten alive O.O

Am I the only one who's sad that Arthur Miller died? The Crucible was such an awesome play...

Miller ranks with O'Neill at the forefront of American playwrights, and with such masters as Ibsen and Galsworthy in terms of writing plays imbued with a social conscience. Nearly everyone is familiar with his "Death of a Salesman" which is not directly political. Not so well known are his "All My Sons" the story of a WW II profiteer, who learns that his corner-cutting ... -- well, I won't spoil the play for those who haven't read it. "The Crucible" is a parable indicting those who sought to inhibit freedom of thought and association during the anti-Communist hysteria of the late 40's and 50's. "A View from the Bridge" is also terrific. Less well-known, but very powerful, is his "Incident at Vichy" a play about personal courage in the face of Nazi tyranny.

Miller's later plays -- "After the Fall" and "The Price" -- were disappointing to my taste. Perhaps his brief marriage to Ms Monroe had sapped his, um, creative energies.

Boccaccio

[Mad Lews]

No, please, not that! Anything but that! Anything? Well... :p

Enough that we might want to consider requesting for new story codes:
Murder
Character Death
??? - I'm sure the rest of you could come up with others

Not so much to give away the plot of the story, but to warn readers what they might find.

Thanks for the insights everyone.


Ok But when do we call murder/suicide snuff I wrote a story of "Os" demise where she was consensually murdered. While it may have been for the readers tittilation her own personal motives were .... well more personal. I labeled it as snuff but was it really? Sometimes our imaginary frieinds just get to complicated or our labels are just to restricting

[ProjectEuropa]

I labeled it as snuff but was it really? Sometimes our imaginary frieinds just get to complicated or our labels are just to restricting

The more complex our characters the more real they are and the less they are willing to be labelled. That is no bad thing. Real people defy labels but we put labels upon them. It is guidence, nothing more. If you describe a character that has defied its label I would congratulate you, you are getting closer to a real character.

[MasterRJ]

Miller ranks with O'Neill at the forefront of American playwrights, and with such masters as Ibsen and Galsworthy in terms of writing plays imbued with a social conscience. Nearly everyone is familiar with his "Death of a Salesman" which is not directly political. Not so well known are his "All My Sons" the story of a WW II profiteer, who learns that his corner-cutting ... -- well, I won't spoil the play for those who haven't read it. "The Crucible" is a parable indicting those who sought to inhibit freedom of thought and association during the anti-Communist hysteria of the late 40's and 50's. "A View from the Bridge" is also terrific. Less well-known, but very powerful, is his "Incident at Vichy" a play about personal courage in the face of Nazi tyranny.

Miller's later plays -- "After the Fall" and "The Price" -- were disappointing to my taste. Perhaps his brief marriage to Ms Monroe had sapped his, um, creative energies.

Yeah...creative energies...that's it...

[isshy]

Hi,

Being new to the forums but not the library (i've been reading the stories on and off for a while now) i was kinda suprised by the thread...

I personally exercise my options on the stories content and choose to avoid any stories that contain snuff. it's just not my thing. I also avoid incest stories and as a mother of a 14 year old girl I avoid teen stories too. Now this may make you wonder why I would even choose to read any story here at all, however I find there are stories that cater to my personal tastes and I enjoy reading them very much. The point is I use the codes and read what appeals to me. I wouldn't for one second think of asking for all stories that aren't Ff++ etc to be removed from the library.

The codes are there, use them, avoid that which you don't like and enjoy the ones you want. Others I'm sure will do the same.

Isshy :)

[Sweep]

Hello,
I would like to say that the snuff category in stories should be removed... It hurts me a lot, and I don't understand why it is permitted to speak about that stuff on this site... It is going too far...
Regards
Hairdresser

Yep - I dislike Snuff stories and feel that they give we BDSM's a bad name (guilt by association). Still I dislike censorship even more and feel that it would be hippocritical for us to impose censorship.

As long as the story is identified as what it is (and the codes used by this site are excellent) then we can't complain about it.

Its only fantasy when it is all said and done - people get killed in Harry Potter.

Cheers

[H Dean]

Hello,
I would like to say that the snuff category in stories should be removed... It hurts me a lot, and I don't understand why it is permitted to speak about that stuff on this site... It is going too far...
Regards
HairdresserIt is key to note that the webmaster of this site has included particular codings to indicate what contents are contained within a story. Clearly, the webmaster has already decided what is acceptable contents within the site and what is not.

Further, as was obvious to me and should be obvious to any who view this site, there are certain notions and ideas that will be expressed on this site that may be tasteless or horrifying to others. You have the option to pass over the site and/or the stories.

I would imagine that there are many Christian and Muslim fundamentalists who would have the lot of us thrown into chains for reading even the least extreme story contained on this site. Would you throw us in chains for writing or reading a tale of snuff?

Something else that is key to note; There are many other free sites with stories and pictures - you could migrate over to those. Perhaps you should start your own site, as well. Then you could monitor the goings on and what the acceptable topics are.

But, since you don't want snuff, I thought that we should take a poll. Any fetish that receives 5 votes against it should be removed and no author should be allowed to write about it. That should clear up any possibilities of any offensive topics. :D

[H Dean]

I am an author and I post on this site and several others .I write snuff and also write other stories and I feel I have the right to do this .One reason is THE BILL OF RIGHTS and the other is I served in combat and fought for that BILL OF RIGHTS.As long as what I write does no harm to another living person I feel it is my right to write what I want and your right to read what you want.So I agree with you.The last I heard the A.C.L.U. has not yet been successful in killing god and free speach in America.Bobby, the Bill of Rights does not apply to this board or any parts of this site so it's really not applicable. The webmaster has complete authority as it is a private site.

By the way - the ACLU has been successful in wounding freedom of speech and expression of religion in America. If you don't believe me, come to the state of California.

[boccaccio2000g]

The last I heard the A.C.L.U. has not yet been successful in killing god and free speach in America.

What utter nonsense!

If it were not for the American Civil Liberties Union, the open exchange of ideas regarding sexual matters would not even be legal in this country. Have you never heard of "Ulysses"? "Lady Chatterley's Lover"? These were books by novelists of international reputation (James Joyce, DH Lawrence); and each was banned in this country for quite some time, as were many others, because they included relatively tame references to human sexuality.

Here is the mission statement of the ACLU:

"The ACLU is our nation's guardian of liberty. We work daily in courts, legislatures and communities to defend and preserve the individual rights and liberties guaranteed to every person in this country by the Constitution and laws of the United States. Our job is to conserve America's original civic values - the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

The American system of government is founded on two counterbalancing principles: that the majority of the people governs, through democratically elected representatives; and that the power even of a democratic majority must be limited, to ensure individual rights.

Majority power is limited by the Constitution's Bill of Rights, which consists of the original ten amendments ratified in 1791, plus the three post-Civil War amendments (the Thirteenth, Fourteenth and Fifteenth) and the Nineteenth Amendment (women's suffrage), adopted in 1920.

The mission of the ACLU is to preserve all of these protections and guarantees:
• Your First Amendment rights-freedom of speech, association and assembly. Freedom of the press, and freedom of religion supported by the strict separation of church and state.
• Your right to equal protection under the law - equal treatment regardless of race, sex, religion or national origin.
• Your right to due process - fair treatment by the government whenever the loss of your liberty or property is at stake.
• Your right to privacy - freedom from unwarranted government intrusion into your personal and private affairs.

We work also to extend rights to segments of our population that have traditionally been denied their rights, including Native Americans and other people of color; lesbians, gay men, bisexuals and transgendered people; women; mental-health patients; prisoners; people with disabilities; and the poor.

If the rights of society's most vulnerable members are denied, everybody's rights are imperiled."
================

Please tell me what part of that manifesto you disagree with.

The ACLU stood up for blacks when they were being lynched in the south. They stood up for Jews when there were quotas on Jewish admissions to certain colleges and universities. They stood up for Japanese-Americans when they were being thrown in concentration camps during World War II. They stood up for freedom of thought and association during they hysterical frenzy of post-WW II McCarthyism.

And they will stand up for you if the right-wing zealots in this country ever decide to go after pornographers and their readers and viewers.

Boccaccio

[Alex Bragi]

The ACLU stood up for blacks when they were being lynched in the south. They stood up for Jews when there were quotas on Jewish admissions to certain colleges and universities. They stood up for Japanese-Americans when they were being thrown in concentration camps during World War II. They stood up for freedom of thought and association during they hysterical frenzy of post-WW II McCarthyism.

And they will stand up for you if the right-wing zealots in this country ever decide to go after pornographers and their readers and viewers.



You certainly raise some very good points there, however…

I fully support any adult being allowed to participate in any consensual sexual play, and the right to view or read pretty much anything of the same. Only, I can’t help but feel that you’re trivialising the rights of women, jews, blacks and the minority groups mentioned in this manifesto by comparing them to a bunch of blue movies, dirty pictures and sex stories. I simply fail to see the equation between someone not getting all the porn they think they’re entitled to and being discriminated against because of your race, sex, or religion. It’s your right to express your view for sure, but please try to keep it in perspective.

And, of course I will always be on the front line of anyone who dares to harm or corrupt “society’s most vulnerable members”—our kids. And that’s why, to that degree, I do support a certain amount of censorship.

[Donatien]

[Quote:
Originally Posted by boccaccop200g
The ACLU stood up for blacks when they were being lynched in the south. They stood up for Jews when there were quotas on Jewish admissions to certain colleges and universities. They stood up for Japanese-Americans when they were being thrown in concentration camps during World War II. They stood up for freedom of thought and association during they hysterical frenzy of post-WW II McCarthyism.

And they will stand up for you if the right-wing zealots in this country ever decide to go after pornographers and their readers and viewers.

[QUOTE=alex Bragi
Only, I can’t help but feel that you’re trivialising the rights of women, jews, blacks and the minority groups mentioned in this manifesto by comparing them to a bunch of blue movies, dirty pictures and sex stories. I simply fail to see the equation between someone not getting all the porn they think they’re entitled to and being discriminated against because of your race, sex, or religion.

And, of course I will always be on the front line of anyone who dares to harm or corrupt “society’s most vulnerable members”—our kids. And that’s why, to that degree, I do support a certain amount of censorship.[/QUOTE]



Alex I think Boccaccio's post has to be looked at in the context of him defending the record of ACL in its work supporting a range of freedoms.

Nevertheless I think it is right and proper for society to protect the freedoms of minors, even if that means censorship of some material especially photographic and some aspects of chat rooms, where they are used for “grooming”.

However my main point is on the question of whether snuff stories should be excluded, and I think that would be a pity, when all the dulcettt inspired ones are so sidesplittingly funny. How any one can take a story seriously, when a beautiful teen calmly discusses the finer culinary skills whilst she is the one roasting on a spit, is beyond me.

Another point is that throughout history, certain personality types, usually left brain dominant,who regard themselves as the arbitors of what is right, and being ambitious frequently get to the top of organisations and govenments, tend to pronounce on issues such as pornography, denouncing it virulently, only to be found time and again as regular users of it, along with being the authoritarian sadists that I have referred to in the thread on sadism. They were hate figures to De Sade, who held strong views against the abuse of power by the strong, long before they got him locked up as a pornographer, and liberteen, when their real purpose was revenge, that he had dared to depict their truly rapacious, and hypocritical attitudes in his novels. Nothing changes, except technology. So the very figures who are most antagonistic to porn or the like are not infrequently the greatest users, something they justify to themselves on the basis , that unlike lesser mortals, they are not corruptible!

[boccaccio2000g]

You certainly raise some very good points there, however…

I fully support any adult being allowed to participate in any consensual sexual play, and the right to view or read pretty much anything of the same. Only, I can’t help but feel that you’re trivialising the rights of women, jews, blacks and the minority groups mentioned in this manifesto by comparing them to a bunch of blue movies, dirty pictures and sex stories.

###Of course the right to read or see pornography is trivial compared to those other matters. But the right to read, see, hear, and say what you want is not trivial at all. Wouldn't you agree that without freedom of expression, there is no liberty? Pornography is only the black sheep in the family of expression, but it is a sheep that should not be sacrificed on the altar of conformity. ###

I simply fail to see the equation between someone not getting all the porn they think they’re entitled to and being discriminated against because of your race, sex, or re ligion. It’s your right to express your view for sure, but please try to keep it in perspective.

And, of course I will always be on the front line of anyone who dares to harm or corrupt “society’s most vulnerable members”—our kids. And that’s why, to that degree, I do support a certain amount of censorship.

### I do too. I see no reason why a consumer needs to have the ability to buy an adult publication from a sidewalk newsrack for instance, where it would prove offensive to some. Certainly all participants in sexual films and photography must be capable of informed consent -- i.e. be adults with the mental capacity to make such decisions, unimpaired by alcohol or drugs. Those standards would not countenance child pornography or any sexual activity in which someone is harmed against their will.

Boccaccio

[Alex Bragi]

Boccaccio,

That's an excellent and well articulated response, and one I will certainly ponder.

Alex :)

[Robin Lane]

Agreed...now, let's see if we can convince more authors
who write snuff stories to add the code when submitting.

I could rant for ours about how I read a great story only to
have one of the key characters die. I would have liked a warning!

Or for purists, who argue that snuff is only death in a sexual context,
then perhaps we should request another code to be added.
Something like CD for character death.

That should help warn readers who may want to avoid these tales
or prepare themselves.

It is quite reasonable to assume that stories posted on BDSM Library, or any site or publication that contains erotica, snuff should be defined as a classification into which a story must fall IF such a story uses any expression or depiction of death in an erotic context. Readers have the right to be informed of a story's content. This would be true whether in erotica or some other genre`, in any type of media... print, television, periodicles, etc. If a story contains any such potentially upsetting content, (snuff, incest, violence, etc.,) it is the duty of the author AND the author's publisher to ensure that anyone interested in reading the story understands that it contains such content. This is true in any kind of entertainment media, not just fiction, and any genre`, not just erotica.

Robin

"Girls... God's gift to women."

[Robin Lane]

Snuff?

Come now good people. I am going to assume by being here, that you all know how to read. And if you know how to read, then the bright red word 'snuff' that is in the story code's should be enough to warn you off. You don't want to read anything with snuff in it, then avoid those that have it in the codes. But do not, assume that you have the right to pick and choose what is appropriate for the rest of us.

I happen to write vampire novel's for this site, and in them, there is of course going to be snuff, I mean what blood sucking night walking story is complete without one or two death's? And if you don't want to read them, that won't hurt me. I happen to believe in freedom of speech and expression. Most assuredly in this type forum.

So if you don't want to read any snuff works, then just check out the code's and skip them.


V. L. Marquette.

ABSOLUTELY! That's how it's done! Funny how that seems to escape so many otherwise intelligent, reasonable human beings who believe in freedom.

Robin
:confused:

[xsnaggle]

Ok, so here comes the issue of pedophile. Strictly speaking, stories containing any character under 18 is pedophile. But as stories or fantasies, teenage sex may not be offensive to many readers. So here the line is a bit blurred. Normally, we draw the line at 12-year-old in case of fictions. The story codes is one way to tell readers what's going on in a story. So if anyone see any story contains character(s) 12 or younger and it doesn't have the code "Pedophilia", please be sure to let me know and indicate where it is in the story. Thank you very much!

Jinn
I don't agree with your basic statement. Under 18 may be guaged as paedophilia whre you live but in UK the legal age of consent is 16. In holland it is 14, as it is in Denmark. In Japan there is no age of consent at all. In 1904 in England, where people talk of returning to victorian values (Actually this was edwardian) the age od consent was 12! I have knowb 12 year old girls who were far more sexually aware than their mothers. so is Paedophilia in the letter of the law or the mind of the person who thinks of it???

[alura]

I also agree. It's like the people that are suing Mcdonald's for being fat. Puleese, if you don't want to be fat, don't go there. If you don't like snuff, don't read it.


ABSOLUTELY! That's how it's done! Funny how that seems to escape so many otherwise intelligent, reasonable human beings who believe in freedom.

Robin
:confused:

[Winnie]

I agree that we readers are not entitled to say what may or may not be posted here. What I do ask of the authors is to please ensure that the story codes are ALL there. Some times I am sure that the content is not exactly as advertised, but I think that most snuff ones are there.
If it is not "off topic", can we also have one (story code that is) for long narrative passages about the particulars of any guns that the characters obtain. At the moment a couple of stories in S-O-L read like an endorsement for your , I think, N.R.A.
Fine if you want to put them in the story, but please tell me so I can avoid the things. I have as yet to read a story whereby the auther give about a page extolling the virues a one particular engine over another in the same motor car.
Regards, Winnie.

[agp_millie]

Apart from the varying Laws of different countries and imaterial of what is written, so long, quite rightly, that we know in advance of what we are reading or going to the cinema to see etc., etc.
This side of the planet seems to become unbearably Politically Correct. (Quick fingers down throat) Even I as a very 'all woman' mom with 3 babes, my eldest goes to jnr. school, felt guilty talking to another mom's kid outside our school the other day, because the mom came flying up and dragged her daughter away, telling her off for talking to strangers! My 6yr. old son was wanting to invite her to his b/day party. Gawd knows what it's like for guys.

A famous quote by someone.
'Rules are for the obeyance of fools and the guidence of the wise.'
So very true in everything we do.

Official declaration. (smile)
ps. the attached story is for Adult reading only and NOT for those easily offended or feel strongly opposed to snuff stories.
pps. Is quite erotic to me, tho' (blush) In FANTASY.

xxx

[ghostsblood]

For whatever reasons an author depicts what he does, is is not his responsibility to ensure people do not get offended or encouraged any more than Gaspar Noé (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0637615/) is responsible for ppl being raped in underpasses.

What is offensive or erotic is in the eye of the beholder. A story could be written that denounces the fundamental tenements of a religion (whatever religion) and i guarrantee more people will be offended than by a story depicting snuff or ped.. i doubt there will ever be a religious or politically sensitive code. However, there are codes for snuff and ped etc.. and as long as they are used accordingly there should be no cause for concearn.. should there?

Personally I write my stories as I do because I want to create the most horrific, visceral and unnerving body of words that it is in my ability to create. If I was to excuse myself of these thoughts, I would simply blame my Id for regularly bypasing my ego and super ego :D

[agp_millie]

Reading your comment Messrs. Ghostblood, put it completely in perspective.

And would LOVE to read one of your *nasty* stories, while taking a break from washing, ironing, scrubbing, fluffing, feeding and all my other varied, homely duties.
And sorry Jacky Collins, but i need MORE!

(smile)

This story possibly stopped me from wanting to try the rape fantasy i've had for years, as most girls.

DO NOT READ IF SNUFF OFFENDS YOU or under 29.

Archive name: blind.txt (MF, rape, bdsm, snuff)
Authors name: Chac (Anon Address)
Story title : Blindfolded

--------------------------------------------------------
This work is copyrighted to the author © 2002. Please
don't remove the author information or make any changes
to this story. All rights reserved. Thank you for your
consideration.
--------------------------------------------------------

Blindfolded (MF, rape, bdsm, snuff)
by Chac (Anon Address)

***

I woke up. I had no idea where I was. I suddenly
realized that my eyes were open but I could only see
pitch-blackness. I tried to call out but found my mouth
was covered by, most likely, duct tape. Then I noticed
my hands were bound above my head. I tried to move my
legs and felt the same thing.

I was lying down. It felt like I was blindfolded and
tied to a bed. My heart raced as I listened for any
familiar sound I could detect. I heard nothing. My mind
blared as I realized I was totally naked. I tried
freeing myself by thrashing my body and twisting my
arms and legs. The restraints wouldn't budge. I
couldn't think rationally, I just heard ringing and saw
nothing.

I could hardly breath because of the gag on my mouth. I
snorted through my nose and made muted calls for help
as I continued my mania. Finally I forced myself to
calm down realizing panic would be my worst enemy in
this situation. The ringing subsided and closing my
eyes helped relieve the anxiety caused by the
blindfold.

The only thing I could remember was leaving work Friday
evening. I couldn't tell if it was day or night and I
didn't know what day it was or how long I'd been lying
there. I imagined every horrible possibility and nearly
lost my mind worrying about what was going to happen to
me.

I had obviously been kidnapped and most likely drugged.
I didn't feel injured. I didn't feel like any of my
parts had been violated either. I was surprisingly
relieved while I was unbelievably afraid at the same
time.

I heard what sounded like a light switch. I immediately
opened my eyes expecting to finally see but was
sickened when I saw only the same horrid blackness and
remembered my blindfold. I was on the brink of
insanity. I imagined the most evil, disgusting looking
man standing there with the power of life and death
over me.

He spoke, "I guess you're wondering why you're here."

His voice was calm; almost pleasant, but the
circumstances made him a demon to me none the less. He
didn't say a word, how could I? I heard the bed creak
and felt it shift and imagined him climbing onto it.
The bed stilled, I waited. My mind was blaring again
and I was pushing nearer insanity.

I felt something warm and moist on my toes and tried to
pull my foot away but was stopped short by my binding.
Was he was licking my toes and feet? It was unbearable.
My stomach tensed and I fisted my feet and hands but
was totally helpless to escape or defend myself. He
worked his way up my calf, passed my knee and to my
inner upper thigh. Soon he was about two inches from my
vagina licking and sucking my thigh, alternating from
one thigh to the other.

I was horrified. I tried to think about something else,
anything else; I tried to escape mentally but I kept
returning to reality of what was happening to me, and
the feeling of being repulsed by his advances.

I could feel him licking my pussy hairs and he held
them between his teeth pulling and breathing hot air.
My skin crawled. Suddenly he plunged his tongue into me
and began sucking and eating me relentlessly.

I held back vomit as he ate my pussy against my will. I
felt my pussy involuntarily lubricating. The thought
that I was getting wet automatically -- despite my
obvious protest against what was happening to me caused
me to snap.

I lost all resistance and my limbs hung limp. I could
no loner move. I was somewhere else. My thoughts
wandered through subconscious as my captor continued
invade my defenseless body.

Sometime later I vaguely realized that he'd slid his
unusually large prick into me. I experienced it like a
nearly forgotten memory. I heard his panting and the
wet suction sounds of his pumping in and out of my
pussy, but didn't really comprehend that it was
actually my body that was being violated.

My thoughts wandered further into subconscious
dalliance and I was not in that horrible place anymore.
I was leaving work. driving to my normal hang out, a
swingers club near Deep Ellum in downtown Dallas. I was
having a few drinks with a couple I liked to swap with.

In my mind I heard them say, "So are you still in?"

I said, "Why of course, I wouldn't miss this
opportunity for the world."

What opportunity was I talking about? This too seemed
like a distant memory. Suddenly, without further delay,
everything came together: what I was doing tied up and
blindfolded with this sick bastard fucking me, and what
I was talking about when I said, "Of course, I wouldn't
miss this opportunity for the world."

I had paid my swinging friends to arrange my own
abduction and rape. I'd always fantasized about being
kidnapped and raped. I constantly masturbated, creating
scenarios related to the subject. And now, here I was
being kidnapped and raped by a stranger and it really
wasn't what I'd expected. I was truly experiencing the
horrible feelings I had fantasized about countless
times. I remembered agreeing that I should be heavily
drugged so I wouldn't change my mind.

I snapped out of my trance. My pussy and asshole burned
hot as I consciously realized this was the kidnapping
and rape I had paid five hundred dollars for. I opened
my eyes and welcomed the blackness that met me. I felt
the bleeding wounds on my wrists and ankles and drooled
hot wetness from my hole as my rapist obliged my
fantasy.

I began raising my hips from the bed to meet each of
his jousts. I marveled at his coldness, being able to
go through with such a horrible act. I thought he must
tell himself the girl really knows what's going on and
that is the only way he can do it.

I noticed he was talking to me saying, "Yeah you little
dirty cunt, you think you're too good to be raped. I'm
gonna kill you right when I cum too."

I couldn't believe how serious he sounded as I climaxed
for the second time within seconds of the first. I felt
his ridged, bloated prick impale me over and over again
as my muted screams echoed in my head. Then I felt him
fill me with his boiling broth as my thighs quivered
uncontrollably and my stomach and back knotted in
ecstasy. He moaned as he came to a stop, his cock
pushed all the way up my womb. His prick twitched and
spasmed as his last few drops oozed deep within me.

Then he pulled out slowly and I heard the bed creak
again as he apparently got up. I laid there
semiconscious and enjoyed the pleasant aftermath of my
multiple orgasms.

Suddenly I felt a deep sting and a dull pain in my
chest as I came to the stark realization I was being
stabbed with a knife. The blade was removed from my
chest and then pounded even harder into my vagina. I
screamed into my gag, I felt blood filling my mouth and
I realized that this was my last moment on earth...

END

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
This story was written as an adult fantasy. The author
does not condone the described behavior in real life in
anyway shape or form.

[ghostsblood]

Reading your comment Messrs. Ghostblood, put it completely in perspective.

And would LOVE to read one of your *nasty* stories, while taking a break from washing, ironing, scrubbing, fluffing, feeding and all my other varied, homely duties.
And sorry Jacky Collins, but i need MORE!



Thanks Millie

I have a post in this forum.. "My Current story (BEWARE....)" It links to my story.. but bareinmind it is not finnished.. nor properly edited.. I am currently updating it before adding any new chapters. Feel free to read it and drop a comment in the thread :)

=^_^=

[Sweep]

Hello,
I would like to say that the snuff category in stories should be removed... It hurts me a lot, and I don't understand why it is permitted to speak about that stuff on this site... It is going too far...
Regards
Hairdresser

I can understand how you feel and I an revolted by snuff stories also. I'm not that keen on incest either. BUT many people are also revolted by the other BDSM stuff that I do like.
I think that as long as a story is clearly labled then it is OK. One must also remember that there is a difference between fiction and fact. So just because folk are writing about snuff (or incest) and others are reading it does not mean that there is going to be any increase in this type of behaviour in real life. In the mainstream published market there are huge numbers of books on murder and theft. I doubt whether a good story should be confused with fact.

[Nikita]

Here are my two cents (as if anyone cares)::morte1:

1. This is a moderated site where posts are screened

2. Freedom of speech is a right unless there is a perceived threat against someone

3. Common sense should dictate the content of a story; though that could be a stretch for some

4. Members should be their own parents; if you don't like what you are reading or watching, change the channel

5. Personally, snuff stories make me ill; when I run across one, I skip it

Enough said (as if anyone cares)

Nik

[teeny70]

Freedom of speech is the issue. If you start banning one subject, soon you will be banning another and another. Look at the reader's response and votes for these stproes. amd you will be convinced that they belong here and are appreciated by many. In fact, some of them have top ratings, and include many other subjects in the story. If you ban, authors will go elsewhere, and BDSM Library will be that much diminished.

"Give me liberty AND give me Death".

[pejanon]

I don't like snuff (death+sex) but that is MY problem.
Eros\Thanatos is worthy avenue of exproration.
Codes and warning are fair but ban, censorship etc are THE ORIGINAL DIRTY WORDS. Don' even THINK about it :eek:
Thank you
Have fun.

Pejanon

[BDSM_Tourguide]

I'm pretty sure that, unless the government makes stories about snuff illegal, the snuff category isn't going anywhere on this website. This thread does spark some fun and interesting conversations every month or so, though. It is quite interesting to read different people's views.

[pejanon]

Actually if snuff stories were made illegal we might just get BETTER snuff stories!

Just kidding.

[Kelli]

I personally will not read a snuff story, but that's just me. If you don't like them, then don't read them. No one is forcing you too, and there are many other stories out there without it for you to read. Freedom of speech, please don't be trying to take it away from the authors.

[agp_millie]

I personally will not read a snuff story, but that's just me. If you don't like them, then don't read them. No one is forcing you too, and there are many other stories out there without it for you to read. Freedom of speech, please don't be trying to take it away from the authors.

I'm amazed this 'thread' has gone for so long. There are many things out There that are as bad, if not worse than snuff, that we read in our Daily Tabloids.

Fiction is imagination, FACT is fact. Okay, there are many murders comitted with imagination. In fact, one of my favourites of all time has got to be Sweeny Todd.
Maybe some of you haven't heard of Mr.& Mrs. Sweeny Todd, Barber's & Famous meat pies. ... Well, apart from how single, no ties men got haircuts there cheap on thursdays and a quick slit of the throat with Mr.Todd's razor and the drop down into the cellar below, thru' a trapdoor in the chair. Ingenious.
How Mrs.Todd used to drag the bodies to the hanging area. A badly in need of hygene place where she hung the 'meat' to drain of blood and made it into delicious 'Black puddings' [Google-it.] which reminds me, we do that with our sows placenta. But that is traditional.
And then Mrs.Todd worked her human hair socks off to get out pie after pie of various cuts of the human torso.

Being as i love my cooking, if only my Hubby was a Barber, we could open up 'Hackers Barbers. Hairdressor to the non-newsworthy' and 'Hackers Olde English Pye Shoppe' ... anyway,

I digress. Totally agree with Kelly. What about a thread on Cooking meat? Would anyone be interested in more unusual methods? All mammals are available as well as fish, ofcourse.

[slave802120]

Children's fairytales are filled with fantasies of people being killed in all manner of gruesome ways, as well as being cooked and eaten. Here's a short extract from something I wrote recently on the subject of snuff fantasy:

Insofar as "cannibalism for entertainment" goes, look no further than the fairytales of the Brothers Grimm or Hans Christian Anderson. Modern day authors like Roald Dahl continue the tradition, and if ever you want to read a good story about evil dominatrix and the non-consensual humiliation of a young girl, look no further than his book Mathilda. All of these were written FOR CHILDREN and are considered part of growing up in households where "classical educations" are considered a thing of value.

Read the whole essay here:

Put Another Slave On The Fire (http://slave802120.blogspot.com/2005/07/essay-put-another-slave-on-fire.html)

I could also have mentioned Disney stories (and some people seriously think they're 'evil' for this very reason) where themes are often about children who witness their parents being killed and are then raised by 'gentle, caring' wolves, bears, rattlesnakes, or whatever. *lol*

And as for pedo stories, how is it that Lolita is considered 'classic literature' but when anybody else writes about sex with minors it's collectively dismissed as porn, or worse? I personally don't believe the current state of society's pathological aversion to the subject does anything to address the subject of child abuse properly. To me, it's no different than primitive societies accusing their enemies of being 'cannibals' simply because that was the most disgusting label they could think of to place on them.

For the record, I don't enjoy reading or writing stories that have characters in them that aren't as old as my favorite pair of shoes, which are 25 or so years old and getting older every year :p

[crickette]

I totally agree Mrs. Millie Moo (hope I spelled that right)and thanks to you I will never be able to look at a turkey without lmao again. I thank you ! :D




I'm amazed this 'thread' has gone for so long. There are many things out There that are as bad, if not worse than snuff, that we read in our Daily Tabloids.

Fiction is imagination, FACT is fact. Okay, there are many murders comitted with imagination. In fact, one of my favourites of all time has got to be Sweeny Todd.
Maybe some of you haven't heard of Mr.& Mrs. Sweeny Todd, Barber's & Famous meat pies. ... Well, apart from how single, no ties men got haircuts there cheap on thursdays and a quick slit of the throat with Mr.Todd's razor and the drop down into the cellar below, thru' a trapdoor in the chair. Ingenious.
How Mrs.Todd used to drag the bodies to the hanging area. A badly in need of hygene place where she hung the 'meat' to drain of blood and made it into delicious 'Black puddings' [Google-it.] which reminds me, we do that with our sows placenta. But that is traditional.
And then Mrs.Todd worked her human hair socks off to get out pie after pie of various cuts of the human torso.

Being as i love my cooking, if only my Hubby was a Barber, we could open up 'Hackers Barbers. Hairdressor to the non-newsworthy' and 'Hackers Olde English Pye Shoppe' ... anyway,

I digress. Totally agree with Kelly. What about a thread on Cooking meat? Would anyone be interested in more unusual methods? All mammals are available as well as fish, ofcourse.

[agp_millie]

I totally agree Mrs. Millie Moo (hope I spelled that right)and thanks to you I will never be able to look at a turkey without lmao again. I thank you ! :D


Dear Crickette,
Aren't you the 'crickette' that was hanged last Season at Lord Tuckerbelly's Gourmet Party?
No, guess you couldn't be.

Thanks for agreeing. Perhaps we can start a Discussion about .... errrrrmm.. What would YOU suggest. (smile)

xxx

[Bunk]

Well, hello all. This topic struck a chord with me enough to inspire me to register. Let me say that first off, I fall on the side of anti-censorship.

What I appreciate about this site, is that the stories are thoroughly rated, so that I can avoid subject matter that I personally don't find erotic. Snuff however is a tricky issue.

I've seen numerous attempts to define it in this thread, and its tough to say there is a consensus. Personally, what I consider snuff completely kills (heh)any sort of erotic moment for me when I encounter it in a story. It really sucks for me when something thats borderline shows up in a story that didn't have a snuff tag.

I'll explain - I was reading a story here recently that had a pretty harsh basis. Very NC and rough. It did not however have a snuff tag. I'm borderline on torture stories - but as long as they don't get in to outright mutilation, they don't bother me. This story had some rough stuff, but it was well written and I was enjoying it. Then out of the blue - in the middle of a paragraph:

(Feel free to skip the next paragraph if you really dislike snuff)






A bit part character is discribed as being punished by having shit put in her cunt, which was sown shut. The she was left to rot until she begged to die and then was crucified.







Typing that paragraph actually physically affected me. Not in a sexual way either. It just doesn't "do it" for me, and it hurt that I stumbled accross it by accident.

Please don't tell me I didn't have to read it - I can read a paragraph as short as the one I typed above in a glance, and it wasn't much longer than that in the story. I'm not putting anyone down for liking that - whatever floats yer boat - but I do wish authors would be a little more explicit in the description of thier stories if they are going to include content of that, well, icky a nature.

The story was likely labeled "extreme" but unfortunately, that label is even less defined than snuff, and many stories I have seen here labeled as extreme barely made me bat an eyelid.

Ok, nuff said, that's my rant. Thanks for listening.

Bunk.

[agp_millie]

that paragraph actually physically affected me. Not in a sexual way either. It just doesn't "do it" for me, and it hurt that I stumbled accross it by accident.

Dear Bunk,
Yes, that was nasty & putrid, literally. And being an avid Net. 'nc' story reader, i've read some quite nasty things. To me, many *nasties* can be very erotic, but having her stuffed and sewn up in such a manner is VERY nasty.
I guess if the word 'snuff' is included with all the other abbrv. signifying what to expect in the story, then you have an interest in some forms of snuff and when reaching an area that is abhorrent to you, you would simply delete from your files/pc. But somewhere thaere are a lot of guys and women too, that hate our sex and it's their way of showing their contempt for the gentle sex (smile)

One of my fave pastimes, is Fantasy cyber and over time, i have been 'involved' in aome amazingly nasty scenes. But, personally, i draw the line at scat and whipping. But i do enjoy cooking/being cooked, in cyber, by a skiiled cook or using a willing female (prefered) to roast or BBQ. (smile) As one does.
However, i'll settle for a good flushing out of the 'meat' and use my culinary skills to com plete a good 'snuff' scene.

So it's each to their own. Certainly, with appropriate warnings and ratings, any story should be available somewhere.

**** WARNING **** tHE PICTURES BELOW REPRESENT 'SNUFF' AND MAY AFFECT MALES AS BAD AS FEMALES, IF VIEWED. (smile)

[Ranai]

Nope, colin. Read the thread. This is about fiction. Not about real murder.
:error: :usehead:

[sheilagirl]

Hello,
I would like to say that the snuff category in stories should be removed... It hurts me a lot, and I don't understand why it is permitted to speak about that stuff on this site... It is going too far...
Regards
Hairdresser

The snuff category is there to inform you. If you don't like snuff, you don't have to read it! Stop trying to use your personal likes and dislikes to impose censorship on other people's work. And let's not forget this is FANTASY, not real. Jeeez, some people!!

sheila

[Mrlover]

I personally would like them removed from the site, because I honestly can't see how killing women can seem erotic. And it seems a little extreme to me even in BDSM terms.

I agree i think its disgusting and can be no justification for it. People who "get off" on killing have some very serious issues

[submissivewife]

I agree i think its disgusting and can be no justification for it. People who "get off" on killing have some very serious issues


I agree! Killing is not a sexual act.

[H Dean]

Those who do not like the snuff category could choose to show their feelings by no longer coming to this site for their erotic pleasures. That makes it simple.

Incidentally, should there be a future refusal to allow any genre of story on this site it does not constitute true censorship as it does not prevent the publication or creation of said works.

[ghostsblood]

Who has the right to decide what people are and are not allowed find exciting?

Im sure Sadism and Masochism are oft discussed with as much disdain in other communities, as snuff has been on this thread.

This site has the rare honor of hosting some of the most intense short stories ever written, it should be reciognised and aknowledged.. not subverted to mediocrity by the moral stance of members who avoid them anyway.

:cool:

[Darklord_of_vienna]

I dont want to read any more of these perverted Anal-fucking stories.
Please remove each and every story containing anal-fucking!!!!

:D :D :D

[agp_millie]

I dont want to read any more of these perverted Anal-fucking stories.
Please remove each and every story containing anal-fucking!!!!

:D :D :D


.... and please remove anything to do with 'missionaries' and 'missionary positions' i've had quite enough of that.

.. more dungeon and raped by aliens, that would make a nice change.

:D :D :D

BDSM Library and Forums! Long may you live. Developing and exploring all dark corners.

Now please excuse me while catch up with my husband and his other wife ...

[mkemse]

I agree, NC is onething, however i findnothing erotic at all about snuff stoies, i tend to even find them sick, but i speak only for myself on, this. Let's keep this site erotic not full of snuff,

[mkemse]

Yes there is Freedom of speech, however shouting "Fire" in a movie theatre as example is not covered bythat protection, if you did that you would be arrested there has to be aline drawn somewhere, I even have issues with stories dealing with females 14-17, but the adm says it ok, i realizethe Supreme Court ruled that stories depecting minors is allowed because unlike a movie it is writtenand can be closed at anytime, buti find it intersting, you have to be 18 to use this site but can write a rape, blackmail story about a 14yr and it is acceptable
Like going back to the 60's, if you were 18 you were eligible to go to Viet Nam, fight and possible die, yet you wrere not allowed to vote and express your feelings about the war legaly, go figure

[Rabbit1]

Yes there is Freedom of speech, however shouting "Fire" in a movie theatre as example is not covered bythat protection, if you did that you would be arrested there has to be aline drawn somewhere, I even have issues with stories dealing with females 14-17, but the adm says it ok, i realizethe Supreme Court ruled that stories depecting minors is allowed because unlike a movie it is writtenand can be closed at anytime, buti find it intersting, you have to be 18 to use this site but can write a rape, blackmail story about a 14yr and it is acceptable
Like going back to the 60's, if you were 18 you were eligible to go to Viet Nam, fight and possible die, yet you wrere not allowed to vote and express your feelings about the war legaly, go figure

when in the 60s were you not allowed to vote when you were 18---and when were you not allowed to express your feeling about the war ---which country are we talking about here---as when I came back from Vietnam there were protesters all over the place ---even in front of the white house.
so I know you are not talking about this country. Many 18 year olds chose not to vote just as they do now --- Just curious if I missed something---

[Aesop]

Yes there is Freedom of speech, however shouting "Fire" in a movie theatre as example is not covered bythat protection, if you did that you would be arrested there has to be aline drawn somewhere, I even have issues with stories dealing with females 14-17, but the adm says it ok, i realizethe Supreme Court ruled that stories depecting minors is allowed because unlike a movie it is writtenand can be closed at anytime, buti find it intersting, you have to be 18 to use this site but can write a rape, blackmail story about a 14yr and it is acceptable
Like going back to the 60's, if you were 18 you were eligible to go to Viet Nam, fight and possible die, yet you wrere not allowed to vote and express your feelings about the war legaly, go figure

The difference between shouting fire in a movie theater and snuff stories on this site is obvious. Nobody is intruding into your life and making you read the story as they are when they shout fire. With the disclaimers and story codes listed the reader knows what he or she is getting.

As far as the 18 or over thing goes-18 year olds can sell and serve liquor but they can't drink it. They can still fight in the wars, but they can't gamble and besides, the 18 and older rule is there partially because the government feels that 18 year olds are wise enough and mature enough to know the difference between fact and fiction.

[petit_g]

Hi, I'm new -- at least to this forum -- & I have to say that I am shocked to find people taking a hard line against snuff fiction in a site dedicated to BDSM. I find stories without snuff to be dull & sorry affairs. I'm not a sociopathic perv. I just know what I find erotic. You -- I'm talking to the politically correct doms & subs here, you know who you are -- wouldn't have the culture you enjoy here without snuff writers like de Sade & others. You should be ashamed. I'd tell you what punishments I have in store for you, but you've already made it plain you don't want to hear it. Suffice to say, toe tags & postmortem playtoydom for you. (Sorry if this sounds confrontational, Rabbit. I know I shouldn't come out snapping at people. I support your open-mindedness.)

[Rabbit1]

Hi, I'm new -- at least to this forum -- & I have to say that I am shocked to find people taking a hard line against snuff fiction in a site dedicated to BDSM. I find stories without snuff to be dull & sorry affairs. I'm not a sociopathic perv. I just know what I find erotic. You -- I'm talking to the politically correct doms & subs here, you know who you are -- wouldn't have the culture you enjoy here without snuff writers like de Sade & others. You should be ashamed. I'd tell you what punishments I have in store for you, but you've already made it plain you don't want to hear it. Suffice to say, toe tags & postmortem playtoydom for you. (Sorry if this sounds confrontational, Rabbit. I know I shouldn't come out snapping at people. I support your open-mindedness.)

thanks for the support ---but I am not the thought police nor do I want to be--there are stories I do not like ---but that does not mean I do not think others should not read them because they are not my particular cup of tea. Just like there are many book at the Public library I do not like.

And if I have anything to say about it the only way these stories will be removed is if they become against the US Laws---I will not like it then but-I will try to protect the site for the other stories.

and to all who support my point of view ---I suggest you all get out and vote or do not whine when you liberities disappear.

[subdude05]

Hello, this is a very strange arguement, i think most of us are alomst at the peak of tolerance and understanding, very open and curious people.
Think about truely vannila people who find BDSM offensive, some people find porn offensive some people find low cut tops offensive, hell i even knew some one who thought that girls showing their sholders at school was offensive (and this was only 3 years ogo as im 20). I havent made my mind up about snuff yet,
im of the opinion that if you dont like it dont read it, i dont watch soap operas because i think there mindlass pap, but no ones forcing me to watch clockwork orange style, with things to keep our eyes open, head strapped facing a big screen with some one standing over us with eye drops, so i dont watch them, this is a wonderfull site with a great selection of stories, its not as if its all snuff, if it was many of us wouldnt be here.
ok rant over, where did this thread come from any way, i had a look and it dates back to 2002, i sure we had one reacently.

Keep up the good work Rabbit, dont let less open minded people get the better of you, you offer loads of stories and an expanding forum for free, i guess some people are neaver going to be happy to be part of something beutifull, gotta ponder about some people

oh and as for making thing up, well thats just childish, get em a wolly pop

[Ozme52]

...And if I have anything to say about it the only way these stories will be removed is if they become against the US Laws...


That would be a horrifying day because it will be strictly about sexual freedoms, an attack against leading to the ultimate... against "in my own home" privacy. Either that or even worse, they will be outlawing every crime drama, war story, medical drama, ad infinitum.

I don't care too much about who writes what as long as I can choose what I want to read... and what I want to ignore.

[Ozme52]

Hear that Lavender? If you really want to torture your boy here, make him watch soap operas. heh heh.

[subdude05]

dont give her any ideas, i have to put up with them now and then, but im generaly here if she watching them.

and i agree, there is more murder and death on television eyeryday than here in the library, at least here your warned in the story codes, murder crops up in some unexpected places on tv. and usualy for stranger reasons than a fetish (so to speak), and yes there are already to many restrictions on "freedon of speach" already, so dont give the people who keep cheack for the government more excuses, or they'll ban the lot, acctually they are already passing (or recently passed) a law (we have to guess here in blighty because our constitution in uncodified) to make violent sites illegal, inclyding most BDSM site's because some prick could'nt control his erge's and raped and killed some girls, apparantly because of the nature of the pornography and chat/forum sites found on his hard drive.
Also (if you want snuff deleted) no one asked you to be here, you came on your own accord, as did all of us.
maybe something more constructive may have been usefull.