Affirmative Action

[cheeseburger]

This wasnt really in the news lately, but I find the issue fascinating. (http://www.seop.leeds.ac.uk/entries/affirmative-action/ - in case you dont know what it is)

Heres my opinion on this:

Acceptance to a college or employment should be based 100% on merit.

Its kind of a short opinion. Anyone else?

[_ID_]

Wouldn't affimative action be reversed descrimination based on sex/race/creed or national origin?

[cheeseburger]

Wouldn't affimative action be reversed descrimination based on sex/race/creed or national origin?

Pretty much. Its also called 'good racism'

[_ID_]

So if Affirmative Action is Discrimination (good or bad). Then as I undertsand it, it goes against the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

Title VII prohibits employment discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex and national origin (http://www.eeoc.gov/policy/vii.html)

Additionally The Fourteenth Amendment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitu tion) to the Constitution of The United States also probhibits Discrimination.

So if this is true, why is Affirmative Action still practiced or accepted?

V/R
ID

[cheeseburger]

So if this is true, why is Affirmative Action still practiced or accepted?


To be honest, I have no idea. I was kind of hoping some pro-affirmative action person would step up and tell us the reasons for it, but so far that hasnt happened.

[_ID_]

The reson it is still in play today, is that those who support Affirmative Action (http://www.affirmativeaction.org/) believe the playing field between minorities and White Men is not yet equal.

[cheeseburger]

Thats not a reason to start discriminating against, as you put it, "White Men".

Heres a great example of what I mean:

If you were to have surgery done on you, would you rather that the surgical team was
a) diverse
b) the best you could find?

[_ID_]

What I said about why its still in play came from a pro Affirmitive Action article from the Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/affirm/affirm.htm)


Judging simply by the results, the playing field would appear to still be tilted very much in favor of white men. Overall, minorities and women are in vastly lower paying jobs and still face active discrimination in some sectors.

My views on Affirmitive Action is that it's reasoning for having it is expired, and should be removed from policy. However in fear of loosing voters, I am doubtful that a pollitician will do this.

V/R
ID

[fantassy]

Acceptance to a college or employment should be based 100% on merit?

My personal opinion is that we must recognize that "merit" is a subjective term. Who has more "merit" - the student from wealthy 2-parent family who attended the best schools and took every ACT prep course available and scores a 28 on the ACT or the student from a broken home who attended a lousy inner city school while working 30 hours a week and scores a 26 on the ACT. Personally, I would rather have the student with the 26 operating on me because s/he achieves more with the opportunities s/he is provided.

However, you will actually find that current admissions policies are not the old style "affirmative action" policies of the past which have been held by the SC to be unconstitutional (see Gratz v. Bollinger (2003)). Instead, new admissions policies may take race into account as one factor to be considered to acheive "diversity," since diversity provides a better educational environment which is a constitutionally acceptable goal. Gratz v. Bollinger held that numerical “quota” admissions systems are not narrowly tailored to asserted interest in diversity.

fantassy

[Ozme52]

Officially, Affirmative Action says when all else is equal, choose in favor of those previously hindered by racism.

Of course, "equal" is in the eye of the beholder, which is why Affirmative Action is mostly a failed policy. That's what caused quotas to be enacted. To force "Affirmative Action."

I'm pro Affirmative Action but anti-quota, not that it makes any difference. If you work in an arena in which quotas are in effect, you have no choice but to balance your numbers per the quotas or face penalties.

Some ask why we need to renew it... and that alone shows that you are out of touch. You believe that you are typical in your attitudes and that racism is a thing of the past... it's not. I am constantly surprised by my well educated friends who unthinkingly spout some of the vilest racist epithets.

It's inborn to distrust "those people" from the next valley over. Whether we recognize them from their features, language, totems they worship, or clothes they wear, we are naturally wary of them and their motives.

[_ID_]

I am aware racism is not a thing of the past. Quite contrary actually. I do believe however that Affirmative Action is contrary to the intent of the ant-discriminatory laws that predate any affirmative action policies.

If I am forced to choose to hire someone for a job based solely on their racial/religious/ethnic background, I am then being forced to be racist, and choose a person, not because of qualifications, but rather because of racially motivated requirements. Don't ask me to judge someone by the color of their skin, and I won't. Force me to judge someone by the color of their skin, and I will resent you for asking me to do so.

Being in the military I am required to utilize people the maximize their skills to result in the most efficient results. If I were forced to choose someone based on the color of their skin, or if they were a woman, or any other minority background, regardless of skill, or qualifications. I would then be inhibiting the mission, and could get people killed.

No, I think I will stick with picking people regardless of background or gender or even the color of their skin, it has worked rather well for me thus far.

[cheeseburger]

Some ask why we need to renew it... and that alone shows that you are out of touch. You believe that you are typical in your attitudes and that racism is a thing of the past... it's not. I am constantly surprised by my well educated friends who unthinkingly spout some of the vilest racist epithets.

It's inborn to distrust "those people" from the next valley over. Whether we recognize them from their features, language, totems they worship, or clothes they wear, we are naturally wary of them and their motives.

I dont understand. Affirmative action is racism, good or not. Are you trying to say that not using affirmative action is racist? In black and white, what its saying is that when they consider an application, your race plays a factor. As simple as that.

In fact, you can even argue it is unfair towards the people that supposedly benefit from it (minorities), since theyre acceptance to good universities or jobs can be seen as a product of affirmative action, not individual skill. (Even if it is individual skill, how do you tell?)

Personally, if I was a monirity, I would want to be held to the same standards as everyone else. I would not want to be coddled and looked at as 'unable' to work as hard as the average white guy down the street. Thats about as racist as it gets, in my opinion.

Do you realize how unfair this is toward non-minorities? Despite their non-minority status, theyre still people. And dont look at them as a whole, and say "oh, whats one less white guy". Theyre individuals. It means white people have to work harder than minorities to get to the same places. Affirmative action is making the statement "white people are smarter than minorities" true in a limited sense, because the white people at a given workplace or campus are, actually, 'smarter' than their peers (by the application alone), since they beat the minority competition to get in.

Not cool. :mad:

[Warbaby1943]

I'm not in favor of Affirmative Action for many of the same reasons already discussed her. Also I'm not in favor of the Miss Black America Pageant or the United Negro College Fund or any other thing that is racially motivated.

Just think for a moment what would happen if someone were to start a Miss White America Pageant or a United Caucasian College Fund.

Too bad we don't actually believe that everyone is truly created equal.

[Tojo]

I personally can't see the point of entering the argument- it's just the same old same old.

I prefer discussions to arguments.

Tojo