It's an Ego thing

[Fox]

I admit it. As a writer, I need input from the people who read my work.

Feedback, positive or negative, helps me be a better writer.

Second,
... wait for it ...
I have an ego that needs to be stroked, now and then.

Yep.

A part of me lives to hear what others think of my work. Nature of the beast. (I am a Leo born in the Year of the Tiger, astrological signs that cry out for attention)

So here's what brings this little true confession to the fore:

This past weekend, I submitted 5 "one page" stories I called Snippets. It is a serious "form" .... conveying a scene, a set of emotions, in a very tight space - a single page.

A second series of another seven will be appearing in a day or two.

But not a single review has appeared, which bothers me.

If you don't like them, tell me. It won't be the first time someone has not liked my work. Believe me, I can handle it.

But the silence ... ouch! that hurts.

[e.e. norcod]

Hey Fox. I liked "Chains" so much more. I don't like to write a review of a very good, imaginatively written piece of fiction and then say "Well it was good but it really didn't do for me like this other piece of writing by the same author". How's that. Every reviewer has a particular type of fiction that they like. Mine is c.p. Write more of that and I will review more of that! Meanwhile I read everything you write because I enjoy your prose. I just don't review many stories that I don't give an eight or better to. Unless I think the author really needs some help. And that ain't you as the students say.

[Fox]

By way of background, I tested the "snippets" with several friends before posting ... people whose opinions and advice I respect and take to heart. So I was surprised that there was no reaction at first.

Negative comments are very valuable, because that's how I can improve the craft. I approach writing this way: 80% of what I do is crap and should be changed or discarded. 15% is okay but needs work. The remaning 5% is fine just as it is ... which means it definitely should be discarded.

The Snippets are first draft pieces for the most part. I set myself a challenge: one page stories based on a single theme. The first set: an artist. The second set: the seven mortal sins.
I am planning a third set: the elements.

I really am looking for people to tell me what they think - that is one of the driving forces behind my creativity. Like any performer, I cannot live without the audience ...

Thanks for the kudos.

Now, what was it you DIDN'T like about the snippets?

[e.e. norcod]

Dear Brother Fox

If you think that you can figure out what will be acclaimed as great (or even good) from a limited circulation you have me beat. What follows is a parable from "real life".

Once upon a time at one of the most renowned institutions for medical research in North America there were a pair of researchers. By accident (the only way that such things happen) they stumbled upon a model system for one of the nastier cancers that afflict humans (but unfortunately only humans). Furthermore, the way in which this cancer model system operated in mice gave what may be an extremely important insight into why this cancer arises in people.

So they put their data and their thoughts in order and presented to a group of their peers. One of the scientists was being presented an award from a scientific society for their achievements. As is customary, such awards come with the right to give a lecture to the society at an annual meeting. As the last part of their talk the scientist presented their findings about the new model for the deadly human cancer. At the end of the talk the applause was deafening. Everybody congratulated the scientist on their breakthrough. And so with great confidence they wrote up their findings and submitted them to the foremost scientific journal in the world, the British publication NATURE. Rejected! They took the reviewers' comments in mind, revised the article and submitted it to the second best scientific journal in the world SCIENCE (many Americans insist that it is the best but don't believe them). Rejected! Given the reviewers' comments from SCIENCE and NATURE the scientists rewrote the paper and submitted it to the leading cancer research journal in the world. Guess what, rejected.

Finally, they took the paper, wrote it to their satisfaction and submitted to the scientific society that had applauded the findings when they were presented at the annual dinner. Accepted and eventually published. A very senior scientist of that society discussed the matter with the two scientists at a meeting where they were all very drunk. I think it was in Australia and these folks from the American Southwest were trying to ingest alcoholic beverages (very, very good wines) at the same pace as their Australian hosts. The very senior scientist, who was about to retire, had developed the very first model for this deadly cancer. It involved elaborate perversions performed on baby South American opposums. He commiserated with the two middle aged scientists. Turned out when he had made his breakthrough none of the top journals would accept his work either. Nobody believed it. It took ten years for the real beauty and importance of his work to be recognized. Eventually everybody accepted the concept and thought it was great.

After about ten years the cancer research field began to accept the two scientists work on the animal model for the very nasty cancer. The FDA (which believed in the work from the very start) worked hard to eliminate the carcinogen from human contact. The scientists were honored for their work.

The lesson from this parable are these:

If you love pain, suffering and rejection, go into Science. You will get decades of abuse. No masochist I have ever met (them p, me T) in a Psych hospital enjoyed pain enough to get an M.D. or a Ph.D. To be a faculty member now-a-days requires a love of pain beyond comprehension.

Nobody will ever appreciate your work properly. Write for yourself and your own enjoyment. My scribblings about Christian Fundamentalists in the odd corners of Texas is written to provide enjoyment for a few tens of thousands of perverts like myself. But it is really written for my enjoyment.

Submitt your work to a venue where it will be reviewed by people that think the same way that you do. THIS IS A GOOD PLACE FOR YOU AND ME. Yes I read the New Yorker. Do I appreciate the New Yorker more than BDSMlibrary. Not necessarily, they are different. I don't send my fiction to the New Yorker although I read it about as much as BDSMlibrary.

Enjoy what you write! When you are really enjoying what you write, I believe that you write better. DON'T WRITE FOR THE AUDIENCE! Write for yourself and submitt it to an audience that will appreciate it. Don't send "Christian Discipline Diaries" or "Homage to the Headmaster" to the New Yorker.

Ignore the Reviewers. What the hell do they know. If you change your article based on what the reviewers at NATURE like or don't like it doesn't mean the the folks at CANCER RESEARCH will respond to it (I have published in both journals). Again, write for yourself.

One of the finest feature of BDSMlibrary is the random picks at the top of the site. If you write enough, eventually you will come to be appreciated. Treasure and savor those sketchs which you really like. With time as the number of hits on your articles climb, take satisfaction. The "real world" equivalent is Science Citation Index which records the number of times a given article of yours in "cited" or included in the references of another scientific article. No matter what the reviewers say, the "hits" don't lie.

By the way I get off on corporal punishment of females. The chastised ladies can range in age from about 13 to 55 and endomorphs are not discriminated against. However, I distain hand spanking, "floggers" (full of noise and fury and signifing nothing) and paddles (too much tissue damage).

Well, all of that was too long. Best wishes.

[e.e. norcod]

Dear Brother Fox

If you think that you can figure out what will be acclaimed as great (or even good) from a limited circulation you have me beat. What follows is a parable from "real life".

Once upon a time at one of the most renowned institutions for medical research in North America there were a pair of researchers. By accident (the only way that such things happen) they stumbled upon a model system for one of the nastier cancers that afflict humans (but unfortunately only humans). Furthermore, the way in which this cancer model system operated in mice gave what may be an extremely important insight into why this cancer arises in people.

So they put their data and their thoughts in order and presented to a group of their peers. One of the scientists was being presented an award from a scientific society for their achievements. As is customary, such awards come with the right to give a lecture to the society at an annual meeting. As the last part of their talk the scientist presented their findings about the new model for the deadly human cancer. At the end of the talk the applause was deafening. Everybody congratulated the scientist on their breakthrough. And so with great confidence they wrote up their findings and submitted them to the foremost scientific journal in the world, the British publication NATURE. Rejected! They took the reviewers' comments in mind, revised the article and submitted it to the second best scientific journal in the world SCIENCE (many Americans insist that it is the best but don't believe them). Rejected! Given the reviewers' comments from SCIENCE and NATURE the scientists rewrote the paper and submitted it to the leading cancer research journal in the world. Guess what, rejected.

Finally, they took the paper, wrote it to their satisfaction and submitted to the scientific society that had applauded the findings when they were presented at the annual dinner. Accepted and eventually published. A very senior scientist of that society discussed the matter with the two scientists at a meeting where they were all very drunk. I think it was in Australia and these folks from the American Southwest were trying to ingest alcoholic beverages (very, very good wines) at the same pace as their Australian hosts. The very senior scientist, who was about to retire, had developed the very first model for this deadly cancer. It involved elaborate perversions performed on baby South American opposums. He commiserated with the two middle aged scientists. Turned out when he had made his breakthrough none of the top journals would accept his work either. Nobody believed it. It took ten years for the real beauty and importance of his work to be recognized. Eventually everybody accepted the concept and thought it was great.

After about ten years the cancer research field began to accept the two scientists work on the animal model for the very nasty cancer. The FDA (which believed in the work from the very start) worked hard to eliminate the carcinogen from human contact. The scientists were honored for their work.

The lesson from this parable are these:

If you love pain, suffering and rejection, go into Science. You will get decades of abuse. No masochist I have ever met (them p, me T) in a Psych hospital enjoyed pain enough to get an M.D. or a Ph.D. To be a faculty member now-a-days requires a love of pain beyond comprehension.

Nobody will ever appreciate your work properly. Write for yourself and your own enjoyment. My scribblings about Christian Fundamentalists in the odd corners of Texas is written to provide enjoyment for a few tens of thousands of perverts like myself. But it is really written for my enjoyment.

Submitt your work to a venue where it will be reviewed by people that think the same way that you do. THIS IS A GOOD PLACE FOR YOU AND ME. Yes I read the New Yorker. Do I appreciate the New Yorker more than BDSMlibrary. Not necessarily, they are different. I don't send my fiction to the New Yorker although I read it about as much as BDSMlibrary.

Enjoy what you write! When you are really enjoying what you write, I believe that you write better. DON'T WRITE FOR THE AUDIENCE! Write for yourself and submitt it to an audience that will appreciate it. Don't send "Christian Discipline Diaries" or "Homage to the Headmaster" to the New Yorker.

Ignore the Reviewers. What the hell do they know. If you change your article based on what the reviewers at NATURE like or don't like it doesn't mean the the folks at CANCER RESEARCH will respond to it (I have published in both journals). Again, write for yourself.

One of the finest feature of BDSMlibrary is the random picks at the top of the site. If you write enough, eventually you will come to be appreciated. Treasure and savor those sketchs which you really like. With time as the number of hits on your articles climb, take satisfaction. The "real world" equivalent is Science Citation Index which records the number of times a given article of yours in "cited" or included in the references of another scientific article. No matter what the reviewers say, the "hits" don't lie.

By the way I get off on corporal punishment of females. The chastised ladies can range in age from about 13 to 55 and endomorphs are not discriminated against. However, I distain hand spanking, "floggers" (full of noise and fury and signifing nothing) and paddles (too much tissue damage).

Well, all of that was too long. Best wishes.

[everwilling]

Dear Mr. Fox,

i read your snippets
the words like silk
the stitching smooth
no seam was felt

Thank You,

everwilling

[Fox]

Thanks everwilling, e e norcod, slavelucy and boccaccio for your feedback.

I am pleased to note that Jinn has posted Part Two "The Seven Mortal Sins" and provided them in a special "word.doc" format so that they can be seen in their original format ...

As mentioned, these are an "experimental" form. I want to push the envelope of my skills as a story teller - adhering to a restrictive form is one way to develop this.

My goal with these pieces is to evoke an emotional reaction from the reader: laughter, horror, disgust, identification with the situation ... hence, in part, the need for feedback.

[Lord Douche]

Originally posted by e.e. norcod
Enjoy what you write! When you are really enjoying what you write, I believe that you write better. DON'T WRITE FOR THE AUDIENCE! Write for yourself and submitt it to an audience that will appreciate it.

I agree totally with that. Don't write for the audience. My opinion of "New Life" was that I should have left it as a single chapter short story.
Instead I listened to the audience, who asked for more repeatedly. And I don't think the next 3 chapters were as good, which was why I abandoned it.

... *goes to read Fox's work*

Edit afterwards:
There you go, I reviewed it for you :) Great stories.

[Fox]

My initial thought was to send this as a private message, and then I realized I had already gone public in this thread, and so I figured, “what the fuck” …

e e norcod, in the reply above, provides wise counsel. It is hard to disagree with his advice, especially for “amateur” writers submitting stories in this forum.

I started this thread for a different purpose, however. I have earned a living as a writer for the past three decades – but not as a writer of fiction. (My income tax returns excluded) By profession, I write for magazines and newspapers, for international corporations and for local special interest groups. I am a “commercial writer” in the same way there are commercial artists and commercial photographers – my pen is for hire. I deal in carefully targeted pieces that have quite specific goals: to inform, to lobby and persuade, to motivate, etc. Research into audiences is a significant part of what I require when putting together a piece. When speaking to marketing and journalism classes, I usually begin my talk in Mandarin … the look of puzzlement is fun, and it emphasizes the message: know your audience or your message will be lost.

Therefore, before submitting my “Snippets” to bdsmlibrary.com, I did some research, and gave them to a handful of close friends for review. Every story I submit here is pre-tested.

Now, that’s not to say that I don’t write for myself. I do. The stories here and the stories I have not posted start from a personal desire to express myself. I have been using bdsm as a genre because (a) I enjoy it in practice and fantasy and (b) there is an interested audience of intelligent and expressive people who can identify with what I am writing.

I don’t write snuff (except for the Snippets) because I don’t like snuff stories. I don’t write about teens or children for the same reason. I could … I choose not. I apply the same approach to my “real-life” – if I do not support or believe in what I am asked to write about, I turn the job down.

The other reason for this thread is, as stated, ego. As is everyone else I know who is involved full-time with a creative activity, I am a performer. And as such, I need applause and critics. I will die without it. I know this, I accept this as part of who I am.

I thank you, e e norcod, for your advice and counsel. I genuinely appreciate your taking the time to offer it, and I value what you say.

Sincerely,
Fox

[Fox]

Heh heh, Life has a way of evening the score, does it not?

Earlier I ranted about not getting feedback on my stories ...
This week, I am participating in a Writer's Festival, speaking with people about the joy of writing for a living.

I am at a shopping mall, nice public place, doing my thing, when this very sweet little girl, maybe 4 years old, comes up to me and says
"Do you work here?"
I smiled and said I didn't.
"Do you work at McDonald's?" she asked.
I chuckled, and said no.
She frowned.
"Too bad. I like McDonald's" she said, then walked away.

Heh heh, wisdom is found in the strangest places.


:D :D

[woodsman'sgame]

Fox,

You made the connection with the little girl. You saw
the irony in her words, which says a lot about you. We often miss those subtle truths that confront us each day.
Thanks for sharing.
It gave me a smile and something to think about.

[slavelucy]

Originally posted by Fox
Heh heh, Life has a way of evening the score, does it not?

Earlier I ranted about not getting feedback on my stories ...
This week, I am participating in a Writer's Festival, speaking with people about the joy of writing for a living.

I am at a shopping mall, nice public place, doing my thing, when this very sweet little girl, maybe 4 years old, comes up to me and says
"Do you work here?"
I smiled and said I didn't.
"Do you work at McDonald's?" she asked.
I chuckled, and said no.
She frowned.
"Too bad. I like McDonald's" she said, then walked away.

Heh heh, wisdom is found in the strangest places.


Oh Fox, Sir, you have no idea how much this made me laugh!

:D :D

[Faibhar]

Fox posts that he uses bdsmlibrary.com to
Push the level of my skills as a ... You fill in the blank space. Based on his posted revelations, add "hack", "journeyman", or whatever.
Lord Douche also mentions e.e.norcod's advice to
Enjoy what you write . All three allude to a fine principle, i.e., be true to one's self.

Too many anecdotes from a career in commercial broadcasting come to mind and would cram this space much less probably tax your patience so: Mentioning 'opera singers' in a Top 40 format is highly unusual and frowned upon by the higher ups. Yet, I had carried a newspaper clipping with a head shot of a particularly alluring singer around in my wallet for too long. One day, I decided to mention the singer. Lo and behold, the next call was from some listener breathlessly recalling that the person mentioned on the air was her high school friend and that she was planning to attend her concert that evening. Suffice to say, she was "shocked" to hear the name on the radio. The call pleased, not just because I had, at last, mentioned my infatuation with this person, but that someone else heard and connected in a totally unexpected way.

So, I guess that the upshot to this particular parable is that one should do what they do best. If there is some kind of response (a Review in this case - positive or otherwise) then that is just "icing on the cake". Respect always must be given to potential readers by writing your best, and should your thing somehow strike a positive cord in another then "Hurrah!". Otherwise, the pleasure remains in the writing.