More than one sub...

[Qmoq]

Ok, I know it’s not like me to be serious, but... This was prompted by a question that sheepish(DW) asked in the Friday Five the other week, and I’ve been wondering whether I should ask it properly or not.

Firstly, no offence is meant, and I’m trying not to judge. I love you all. Even you in the back row. Yep.

[From now on, I’ll use male “dom” for dominant and female “sub” for submissives, though I’m sure it happens the other way and in between as well.]

It concerns the fact that a lot of dominants out there have more than one submissive. I’m not going to mention any people by name, and I’ve seen many more than one example of both successful and unsuccessful outcomes. So if you think I’m talking about you, I might not be.

I’m curious to understand how it can work. I’m rather sceptical about it, to be frank, though I am willing to be convinced.

Firstly, I’ll explain why I’m sceptical.

There have been considerable numbers of posts from doms and subs about how precious and intimate the d/s relationship can be. Quite a few seem to suggest that it’s more powerful than “normal” love, because of the trust and intimacy involved. Many happy subs will say “he knows me better than I know myself”, which is particularly touching.

So, if there is such potent trust and intimacy, how can a dom have more than one sub?

I’ve seen recent accounts of how some sub-pairs are happy and friendly. All well and good - I’ll come to them in a moment.

But I’ve heard at least two accounts where a one-to-one dom/sub relationship was horribly scarred for the existing sub by the introduction of a second sub. The first sub felt betrayed and less desirable - certainly less special.

Being a ‘glass half full’ kind of chap when it comes to BDSM, I really want to hear from those currently in successful multi-sub relationships. Unfortunately, I tend to ask rather direct questions, so apologies if the interrogation is brutal. This is not the Friday Five, you’re not compelled to answer by the luscious Mina. If you want to keep your relationship private, that’s up to you.

For the dom, I’d like to know:
1. Why do you think it’s working, when other similar relationships have failed?

2. If one of your charges complained, what would you do?

3. Why did you take on a second sub?

4. Do you think either sub might not be totally truthful about having a rival for their affections, because they are worried that they might be the one who is dropped (or equally, because they like the other sub and don’t want to see them hurt)? This includes their response to this thread.

5. How would you respond to an ultimatum? Most good doms on this site aren’t the “my way or the highway” kind of chap.

6. Do you ever feel as though you can’t spend enough time with each sub? If so, can you clarify question three?

For the sub, my questions are similar, but from the other side:
1. Would you be more content if you were the only sub, or are you really happier being in a three-way relationship? If so, why?

2. When you have no contact with your dom for a while, do you get jealous? Do you think he is concentrating on the other sub?

3. Would you ever consider issuing an ultimatum (“If I can’t be the only one, it has to end.”)?

4. What did you feel when the second (or third etc) sub was brought into the relationship? Or, if you were the second, how did you feel about the first sub?

If there are any people out there in a one-on-one relationship, I’d like to hear your opinion too - pick and choose the appropriate questions, but turn them into a “what if” scenario.

Yes, you may have guessed, I am quite a sceptic about multi-sub relationships. Having plenty of play partners is not a problem to me - having more than one soulmate seems to be a paradox.

Maybe, because I have yet to find that special someone, maybe there is a little jealousy. (I know that you’re all suspecting me of thinking “Why does he have two wonderful people, when I’ve not found one?” and I’d be a liar if I didn’t say that I do think that at times.)

Having said that, when I understood the intimacy in a BDSM relationship, I doubted that one-to-many relationships could work in practice - and that was long before I came to these forums. I can step back far enough from my emotions to put this scenario under the microscope, and I still think my questions are valid!

I do hope I’ve not offended anyone, though. I’m just curious and unconvinced, is all. Convince me!

Thanks. Q xx

[TomOfSweden]

I'd really love to know since I've never ever had a slave who would even contemplate sharing me with another women, (besides in situations like group sex parties and stuff like it). I'd love to have several slaves, and I would imagine that it would make housework a whole lot easier.

[Radiance]

Qmoq.

Ive never understood if you make your main Sub your love online and collar them why do they need more subs.I think greed is more an issue,The Domme/Dom should be as loyal to there partner.If there not happy with the one on one release them, being second .third or fourth isnt nice, makes your collared sub look like there not forfilling the needs of the Dom/Domme, .But to answer you fairly Q i think the ones maybe online are just looking for a quick cum fix something there not getting at home, so why give yourself to one when there are so many willing naked bodies out there.Jealousy happens ,who wants to be the Dom/Dommes main squeeze then have to be put on hold while he or she is with another.I know myself if I collar my sub its only him I am with.Yes I switch but I switch to one only again, I am Happy and proud of my sub, his loyalty is amazing, and he deserves all my love and attention,not shared between other subs.What does it say to your collared sub if your fucking everything in town, Just how i feel, I am sure many will disagree with me But loyalty is number one with me I am loyal to my sub as he is too me otherwise whats so special about what you have?? Nothing

[Timberwolf]

In my current relationship, I'm the only sub involved. But my first online Domme also had a real time sub as well. So I will take what for me is a historical look at the questions from the sub perspective.

1. Would you be more content if you were the only sub, or are you really happier being in a three-way relationship? If so, why?

For me it was neutral. The real time guy was there before, and after me. It made sense to me that she'd want something more than just online and she had it. I never felt jealous over it to be honest. In our case I still got a wealth out of the relationship, and as for her two male subs we were always kept seperate and each allowed the space to feel individually special, which in my case I can say I did.

2. When you have no contact with your dom for a while, do you get jealous? Do you think he is concentrating on the other sub?

In my case, perhaps very rarely. She was legitimately busy with work a lot of the time (travel, lots of corporate goings on and such) which could be a bit of a pain. That was more of a strain to me than the other guy was.

3. Would you ever consider issuing an ultimatum (“If I can’t be the only one, it has to end.”)?

In that relationship no because I would have lost that game for obvious reasons.. In my current one... I honesty feel so secure about the bond we have, that I doubt I'd ever feel the need if it came up.

4. What did you feel when the second (or third etc) sub was brought into the relationship? Or, if you were the second, how did you feel about the first sub?

We were always given our own seperate time, which in my view was wise. We didn't have the "other guy" brought up during our time together though we were all aware of what was going on. It allowed each of us to have time with the Domme without feeling left out, or neglected, or not having attention payed to us while the other one got attention.

My overall impression is this: It can be done, but it's obviously tricky business. One on one relationships have enough issues for people to deal with. Obviously more people = more issues. Is it for everyone? No. I can underrstand fully why some people are 100% against the idea of multiple D/s partners. I also think if a Dom(me) feels the right to multiple partners, you can't in seriousness demand your subs be exclusive to you, which as far as I'm concerned is a two way street Doms have to be prepared to deal with. No good leader is going to demand something of you they are not willing to demand of themselves.

Personally I doubt I would seek a "serious" emotional bond with more than one Domme or sub at a time, because that isn't what I want for myself. Nor do I personally feel that building a serious D/s bond with more than one person at a time is particularly wise. In terms of more "casual" fun (which to me means a relationship more about sexual play than deep emotional sharing), in my current one on one relationship, it's been made clear to me the door is open for that if I want it, but again I am not generally a person who seeks a lot of parntners so it's not a big thing to me that I am going to go looking for.

I think this is a topic that should probably be discussed at some point early in a D/s relationship if one is interested in the multiple partners in the future thing. Get it out there early, and make sure everyone is on the same page. That alone probably does the most to avoid hurt down the road.

I will say though: if one partner is for multiples, and one is against, I'm sorry to partner number 1, but the one who is against has to be the winner in the end or someone will get hurt.

[dzire2pleeze]

Interesting thought, Q...

Your current dilema has always bothered me as well... I know this is "only" cyber space; nevertheless, some pretty strong bonds are formed here. So, when I see Dominants (submissives as well) in multiple relationships, I feel someone is being cheated in that relationship.

It's difficult, i suppose, for one person to fulfill all your needs... To "complete you" - to quote a line from Jerry McGuire. Still and all... I feel very much like you do. Either commit to one person ...or dammit .... play the field.

Of course, i've always been a one man woman... totally devoted and completely loyal. If Master Rob were to tell me that he's taking another submissive... although I would be heartbroken ...I'd have to say "well have fun and adios." I expect 100% and I don't believe you can have 100%, if you are involved in more than one relationship.

However, if it is agreed upon at the onset perhaps that makes a difference.

I too am very interested in the responses of Dominants and subs who exist in multiple relationships. Thanks for starting this thread, Q.

[TomOfSweden]

Is there anybody here involved in the polyamoury scene at all? It's a really big movement and I've wondered if anybody has got anything serious Master slave relationship working within the culture.

[Qmoq]

Your current dilema has always bothered me as well... I know this is "only" cyber space; nevertheless, some pretty strong bonds are formed here. So, when I see Dominants (submissives as well) in multiple relationships, I feel someone is being cheated in that relationship.

Thanks for your comments so far, all!

Yes, dzire, those strong online bonds are the ones I was talking about. Can it work with more than one sub? If so, how, and how do people feel? That's what this thread is about :)

Q xx

[Desperadosong]

I have been in real life 24/7 poly. I was the one that asked if he would please think about getting another. See, Not only am I Bi tendencied (mostly hetro, but with certian women, very Bi), but I wanted him to be as happy as a man could get. I figured if I made him 'happy', imagine how doted on he would be with TWO of us to tend to him! :)
When the second came, she and I became close friends (are still very close) and we worked together which made even more time we each got with Master, or free time if he so desired it. We all slept in the same bed, and sometimes he'd have sex with one, or both, or maybe she and I and he would have sex with one or both. There was no jealousy, but an extreme amount of love. When she was under the weather, Master still was well cared for by me, and when I was ill, she tended him... he never went without. That made us both happy... and him as well. That situation was perfect until his job transford him to another state and I could not go. :(

I'll answer those questions shortly when I have a tad more time.... and mention a "semi-poly" situation that didn't work out.

Ds

[Tojo]

Q, I'd like to hear a little more about your own thoughts/experience?

I feel like there's something missing in your post.

Here's a point from lisa re this thread- I'm just talking to her now.


sometimes its a good thing; for a sub, to be able to talk with someone in the same situation/position/mind set they are in

A smart young lady indeed.


Tojo

[Aesop]

Well I'm a bit offended. Not at your questions Qmoq, don't get me wrong, I'll be answering those in a minute. But the "I think it's just greed" and "looking for a quick cum fix" statements are rather insulting to those of us in poly relationships don't cha think? Anyway on to the questions.

For the dom, I’d like to know:
1. Why do you think it’s working, when other similar relationships have failed?

I have to answer this with another question I think. Why do you continue to try for one on one relationships? I assume since you are still looking that you haven't had one succeed yet. I love my girls. What else do I need?

2. If one of your charges complained, what would you do?

Talk to her. Find the root of the problem and try to find a solution that works for everyone.

3. Why did you take on a second sub?

Because it was right.

4. Do you think either sub might not be totally truthful about having a rival for their affections, because they are worried that they might be the one who is dropped (or equally, because they like the other sub and don’t want to see them hurt)? This includes their response to this thread.

That's a loaded question Q. Everyone is afraid of being dropped, regardless of their relationship. People in one on one are afraid that the other might find someone better, people in poly are afraid of being dropped for their partners. It's common jealousy and the way to deal with it is to deal with it. Openly and without trying to manipulate the situation.

5. How would you respond to an ultimatum? Most good doms on this site
aren’t the “my way or the highway” kind of chap.

No I'm not the "my way or the highway" kind of guy, but lets face it; if your relationship has gotten to the ultimatum point it's over already anyway.

6. Do you ever feel as though you can’t spend enough time with each sub? If so, can you clarify question three?

Of course I do. Do you ever feel as though you can't spend enough time with a single partner? Work, children, life itself gets in the way. It's what you do with the time you do have that counts.


Maybe, because I have yet to find that special someone, maybe there is a little jealousy. (I know that you’re all suspecting me of thinking “Why does he have two wonderful people, when I’ve not found one?” and I’d be a liar if I didn’t say that I do think that at times.)

Like you I mean no offense when I say I think there may be more than a little jealousy here. Or maybe just some cynicism about relationships in general lurking about. Your questions seem to be more on the order of "Ah ha! I caught you!" then natural curiosity. I could be waaaay off base here because I'm a bit nettled at some of the other comments made so if I am I apologize and hope I've given you some good answers.

[Desperadosong]

1. Would you be more content if you were the only sub, or are you really happier being in a three-way relationship? If so, why?

Depends on the relationship. When the time is right, and the right person comes along, then that's when it feels good... as with any other relationship, to try to hurry or press the issue only brings tension.

2. When you have no contact with your dom for a while, do you get jealous? Do you think he is concentrating on the other sub?

Since I only do real life, 24/7, I'd have to say no. Sometimes it is neccessary for him to spend a lil additional time with one sub or the other.

3. Would you ever consider issuing an ultimatum (“If I can’t be the only one, it has to end.”)?


No.


4. What did you feel when the second (or third etc) sub was brought into the relationship? Or, if you were the second, how did you feel about the first sub?

I welcomed her with literally open arms. We are still very close to this day.

Ds

[Talia]

Well, I'm in a multi-sub AND a multi-dom relationships.

Yesterday my Daddy made himself known and claimed me and my sister Silke as our dom. But if you have read my interview with Alex you will see that I have three dominants in my life. Two of with I am still in a D/s relationship. With my Master I am the only sub.

Now to answer your questions...

For the sub, my questions are similar, but from the other side:
1. Would you be more content if you were the only sub, or are you really happier being in a three-way relationship? If so, why?

I love my relationship with Master and with my Daddy. I my relationship with Master I am very happy with being the only sub, eventually, we may add another sub..but that way down the road and AFTER we have discussed the topic thoroughly and lay down the ground rules and what is expected.

With Daddy, Silke and my relationship, I am very content with being one of his subs. I love Silke like she is my sister. Really, I think all three of us complement each other and add to the relationship. I'm glad Daddy is her Master....I couldn't think any other person I would want to have as my sister.

2. When you have no contact with your dom for a while, do you get jealous? Do you think he is concentrating on the other sub?

One thing Daddy is, is open with both of us. If he talks to me, he is talking to her. If for some reason either of us miss time with him it's because we had other obligations to tend to. Do I feel jealous..yes a little, but not because I am jealous she has Daddy to herself but only because, I want very much to share with them; not take away from her.


3. Would you ever consider issuing an ultimatum (“If I can’t be the only one, it has to end.”)?

Nope, when I became Daddy's sub, he already had a sub...his wife. I knew that and accepted that freely, besides, Mommy is wonderful. So no, I would never give Daddy an ultimatum, that would be impossible anyway. lol

4. What did you feel when the second (or third etc) sub was brought into the relationship? Or, if you were the second, how did you feel about the first sub?

What could I feel about his first sub...it's his wife. He loves her. When I found out about Silke, I was torn between my own insecurities and relief. I'm so glad Silke and I get along and am able to talk freely between us. After discussing with Daddy about Silke and his reassurance that he does love me helped me to get past my insecurities.

[lily27]

I think all that matters in this discussion is that if it works for you, then do it.

This is a very interesting topic, and obviously one that a lot of people have strong feelings about. Certainly those who are presently in poly relationships. I hope everyone can rise above making generalized, negative statements. I am quite sure that wasn't Q's intention when he started this.

Personally, I don't think I could handle such an arrangement. It quite possibly has to do with my own insecurity. If I had a Dom that had another sub, especially around these parts where I know and care about many people, I would feel that He was just wearing a sign that says "lily just doesn't live up".

Again, that is just my thought. And I have never actually been in a poly relationship, so maybe it would be different if I was. But at the end of the day...I just don't share well with others. I don't expect that to change anytime soon.

I hope that more Doms/subs will share their experiences. Not out of defensiveness in regards to some comments above, but in order for those of us who are legitimately open and curious to understand. What makes this community great is everyone's openness, allowing us all to learn from one another.

[mina]

I mean absolutely no offense at all, but Aesop, your answers didn’t really clarify much for me. You made some good points about how one-on-one relationships can have similar problems, but it kind of seemed to me like you sorta danced around the main point.

I guess my biggest curiosity with this is, why isn’t one enough? Do you do different things with one sub that you don’t do with the other? Or you just like guiding and showing affection so much you want to do so with more than one person?

Personally, if Master took another sub, I’d be absolutely devastated. I’d feel like I wasn’t good enough, that I couldn’t satisfy him or have him be happy with just me.

And now I’ve thought of another question. Is the love you feel for your subs different than the love you feel for your wife?

Sorry if any of that seems offensive in any way, I’m just completely curious! Btw this is directed to anyone, not just Aesop.

[Aesop]

One isn't enough because I love more than one. I can't answer it any better than that.:)

[_ID_]

I have considered taking a second submissive on a few occasions. Not because I want another woman, but because we both enjoyed the girl as a person, and considered having her added to the household to further that enjoyment. That she is submissive is just all that much better. We decided against it on both occasions, once it got to the point of do we do it or not. Not because we didn't like her anymore, or there was jellousy, but because the timing of our/her lives were not condusive to a poly lifestyle.

While we are discussing the poly relationship, I would like to provide a helpful resource to give you some additional education on the subject for these very questions.

http://www.xeromag.com/fvpoly.html

Onto the questions;


For the dom, I’d like to know:
2. If one of your charges complained, what would you do?

Communication is most important in a poly relationship. Talking to them to reslove the complaint is most important to keep a harmonous poly home.

3. Why did you take on a second sub?

We considered it because we thought it would expand our experience in life, as well as we very much enjoyed the person, as a person.

4. Do you think either sub might not be totally truthful about having a rival for their affections, because they are worried that they might be the one who is dropped (or equally, because they like the other sub and don’t want to see them hurt)? This includes their response to this thread.

This is always a possibilty in every realtionship. Each partner might withold feelings to keep peace within the house. Poly relationships are no exception. See question 2.

5. How would you respond to an ultimatum? Most good doms on this site aren’t the “my way or the highway” kind of chap.

I assume you are refering to a "me or her" kind of ultimatum. If you are, see question 2. Then if the ultimatum remains, consider who, as the poly relationship is ultimately going to fail due to this sort of behaviour.

6. Do you ever feel as though you can’t spend enough time with each sub? If so, can you clarify question three?

Feelings of inadequecy are always a possibilty. To know if you are doing what you can, and need to. See question 2.

I hope this resolves your questions Q

V/R
ID

[Timberwolf]

"I have to answer this with another question I think. Why do you continue to try for one on one relationships? I assume since you are still looking that you haven't had one succeed yet."

If you have nothing nice to say...

I forgot the rest. Someone fill in the blank for me.

[Aesop]

"I have to answer this with another question I think. Why do you continue to try for one on one relationships? I assume since you are still looking that you haven't had one succeed yet."

If you have nothing nice to say...

I forgot the rest. Someone fill in the blank for me.

My apologies if that came across as harsh. It wasn't meant to be. It was meant to compare the questions with the answers. The question was why do you think it would work when others have failed? What I meant was that every relationship you experience fails until you find one that doesn't so you keep trying or give up. That's why I think it will work. Because I hope it will. I meant no insult to Qmoq.

[Timberwolf]

As the Aussies say, no worries mate, as far as I'm concerned anyway.

I think poly relationships do generally have a bad reputation for failure (though in terms of percentages, I guess relationships of all kinds should have one), and from the outside looking in I can see why. And like I said more people = more issues. That in itself, even if one is mentally prepared to do it, is bound to offer the odd complication. I think it takes a certain kind of internal balance before one should even be thinking about it, and even then they just aren't for everyone.

I do think given the right combination of people that they can work. And cheers to you, SB, and Silke while we're at it. ;)

[SheepishJaina]

I find, its difficult for me to juggle both my R/L husband and an O/L Master. I couldn't imagine Master having another sub. I certainly couldn't take on a sub myself. I also know that I'm far too needy and far too much of a jealous bitch to. I'd feel like I was constantly competing.

[Aussiegirl1]

Q, a very interesting thread!

Let me start by saying I would never have thought I could be so happy being "one of Tojo's girls". I have never been one to be that confident of myself, and if you had told me last year that I would be in the relationships I am this year, I would not have believed you. Now, I am only in the beginning stages of our relationship and even with our planned meeting, it will always be an online relationship. I don't know if I would feel differently if it was a real life relationship.


1. Would you be more content if you were the only sub, or are you really happier being in a three-way relationship? If so, why?

No, I don't feel I would be more content, as I have been made to feel very content anyway. I really don't know if I would be happier if I were the only sub, but I somehow doubt it. I mean, I am very happy already.

2. When you have no contact with your dom for a while, do you get jealous? Do you think he is concentrating on the other sub?

No, as we have our set time when we talk, and there is plenty of PMs and/ or emails to remind me I am special. I know too when Tojo is talking to lisa, and don't disturb him at that time.

3. Would you ever consider issuing an ultimatum (“If I can’t be the only one, it has to end.”)?

No, that would never be something I would do. Now, if I was not happy or having fun, that would be a different story.

4. What did you feel when the second (or third etc) sub was brought into the relationship? Or, if you were the second, how did you feel about the first sub?

ok, I knew about Tojo other girls long before we began to move into what is still a growing D/s relationship. To me, it is just a part of who he is. I surprised myself by not feeling jealous, but then the older I get the more I have learnt to not let such a good thing pass me by either. I know too, he gets something different from us all, and that just makes me happy. I have often wondered though how lisa must have felt as I became a part of Tojo's life too, but then I think like me, she treasures the impact Tojo has on her life.


I have also established a very close relationship with Warbaby, that is very special to me. I feel it is because both men know the importance of all the relationships we have in our lives, they are happy so long as I am happy. I feel honoured to have these two wonderful, caring men in my life, and they have both given part of their lives to me. Together, they have opened up my eyes and my heart. I can't imagine my life without them.

I suppose what I am trying to say Q, is that I don't want jealousy or hurt feelings to spoil what I have found. It does still amaze me and I never knew I could be this open minded. But it has allowed me to open myself up to my true feelings for the first time in a long time, and that is something I am not planning on letting go off. I think as deila said, if it works it just works.

[fantassy]

In defense of Q, I have to admit that he articulated several of my thoughts on this topic. We see so many doms on this forum seeking subs, I imaging many feel hurt, cheated, frustrated to see doms with multiple subs. That said, I hope they will see past the frustration to see the hope - subs flock to those they perceive to be good, experienced doms. To those subless doms, I advise you to observe and learn from the behavior and comments of these doms with multiple subs.

Personally, aside from some occasional casual play, I could never share a dom. My ego is far too huge. As Mina said, I would interpret it to mean I am not enough, and if I am not enough, then the relationship is not right for me. I wouldn't even bother with an ultimatum. If a dom said he wanted another sub, I'd be outa there.

Although it's not for me, I can actually understand poly in real life more than I can online. At least in real life, one sub doesn't necessarily take away time from another sub. All can play together and share chores, creating more time for play. But online, it seems to be a mathmatical fact that one sub does take time from another. There are only 24 hours in a day - estimating at least 9 spent at work, 7 spent sleeping, 4 spent on meals and traveling to and from work, 1 spent grooming, 2 spent with the wife and kids, that leaves an hour a day to play. I want that hour, every day. I don't want to alternate days or wait until weekends. Moreover, when a dom is thinking about another sub, that is time he isn't thinking about me. I want a dom who spends as much time thinking about me as I spend thinking about him. We've all sympathized with Silke when she has spent days without any contact and have seen how emotionally difficult that is for her. No offense, but I can't understand settling for an hour of somebody (no matter how great that hour may be), unless that dom is just a temporary stop during a search from someone who can commit his whole self.

If I've offended, I apologise. I'm just stating my opinions. Unfortunately, I'm extremely opinionated. However, I don't mean anything personal by my opinions. Let me state for the record that some of my favorite doms at this forum are poly. I, like Q, just don't get the psychology of poly, and hope by stating the problems I have with it, you all can (and are willing) to explain why you don't have the problems I perceive. Another thing I am really curious about is why anyone with a live-in sub, would seek a serious relationship with another sub online.

fantassy

[Ozme52]

I think poly relationships are difficult because of the way we have been brought up to believe in the one true love...

But do any of us even begin to question our ability to love all of our children? Do we ask if we can find time to share equally among them all? Are there sibling rivalries?

Change a few words and you're asking the very same kinds of questions about poly life, and the same holds true with regards to having multiple interlocking D/s relations.

I don't see why it shouldn't work if everyone involves is communicating.

[DemonGoddess]

First of all I've never been in a poly relationship and I've never been in an R/L D/s relationship. While I can't really answer Q's questions I can give you all a nice little monolog about my thoughts on the subject. I can be VERY needy and jealous... but I can also be fairly open minded (or atleast I like to think I can be...)
I've been 'one of the guys' for most of my life, in several different groups. I inevitably end up developing a crush on one of the guys when that happens I'm generaly amused by the blond bimbos that they crush on and want to sleep with and feel the need to tell me all about But when my friend(s) develop crushs on the guy of my lust then I get incredibly jealous even when said male has no interest in said friend.
On the other hand I've sent old boyfriends (when we were going out...) off to varrious strip clubs and such.

Another thing to consider... When my first boyfriend was deployed I spent alot of time hanging out with a guy I went to school (who was also the boytoys half brother) and basicly everyone thought that the brother and I were involved. We did all of the things that your typical teenage couple do except for the sex stuff. Same thing when I was dating a guy who was in South Africa...

Pretty much it all depends on the people involved. and how secure they are in their relationship.

[~hellish one~]

I think poly relationships are difficult because of the way we have been brought up to believe in the one true love...

But do any of us even begin to question our ability to love all of our children? Do we ask if we can find time to share equally among them all? Are there sibling rivalries?

Change a few words and you're asking the very same kinds of questions about poly life, and the same holds true with regards to having multiple interlocking D/s relations.

I don't see why it shouldn't work if everyone involves is communicating.

i was going to post my own response to all this, but Ozme said it best right here.

well put, Ozme. :)

[Radiance]

Q..

Great thread love..

[maddie]

There are different kinds of love, I guess. You can love your spouse and love your children, but it's not the same kind of love. I have friends that I love, but not the same way or to the same depth that I love my husband.

I'm willing to bet that, if they could find the words to express it, Aesop or Tojo would say they love the women in their lives in different ways. It may be subtle, but I'll bet it's there.

[TomOfSweden]

I think poly relationships are difficult because of the way we have been brought up to believe in the one true love...


I'm not so sure about that. Sure the monogamy myth is cultivated in our culture, but that only explains a part of it. What about plain old jelousy? I don't believe their are people who aren't jelous at all. Some are just better at dealing with it than others.



But do any of us even begin to question our ability to love all of our children? Do we ask if we can find time to share equally among them all? Are there sibling rivalries?

Change a few words and you're asking the very same kinds of questions about poly life, and the same holds true with regards to having multiple interlocking D/s relations.


Off-course there's always sibling rivalry which always boils down to jelousy. Getting more or less than siblings was when I was little a constant on-going battle. I'm certain that none of us always felt as equaly loved as the other siblings. Humanity is a greedy bunch, and denying it is just sweeping the problem under the carpet.



I don't see why it shouldn't work if everyone involves is communicating.

True true, but that's also the problem. I've never seen it happen. I have on TV, but that doesn't really count.

[Ozme52]

Tom, I hear what you are saying about jealousy and I have a definite opinion on that. It's also part of how we're brought up and goes hand in hand with my arguement about the 'one true love.'

Because we're brought up to believe in one true love, what if someone else gets to him/her first? Then we're left out in the cold, lost, and bereft of hope.

Zero-sum game strategy. You win means I lose. But that way of thinking, isn't the only games theory strategy. In life I try to play win-win strategies, and have found that when my winning doesn't mean you lose, jealousy goes away very quickly. When you practice win-win gamesmanship within your life, polyamoury quickly becomes not only preferable, but viable.


P.S. There is also tit-for-tat, (a favorite because I'm fond of tits)

[Dragon's muse]

Dragon and i have always been momogamous. If he wished to bring in another slave, i would deal with it. (What Dragon wants, Dragon gets.)

Big surprise, i came into our relationship with *gasp* baggage -- mostly relating to self-esteem. He says i have "delusions of inadequacy". i am his property and He feels it is his responsiblity to not only maintain, but to improve this property. Very early on, He informed that i was going to have self-esteem "in spite of myself". He promised me on the day he placed my eternity collar on my neck that he would never do anything to make me feel that i am "less than enough".

So the decision of monogamy is his. I simply accept.

Your mileage, as always, may vary.

muse

[TomOfSweden]

Tom, I hear what you are saying about jealousy and I have a definite opinion on that. It's also part of how we're brought up and goes hand in hand with my arguement about the 'one true love.'

Because we're brought up to believe in one true love, what if someone else gets to him/her first? Then we're left out in the cold, lost, and bereft of hope.

Zero-sum game strategy. You win means I lose. But that way of thinking, isn't the only games theory strategy. In life I try to play win-win strategies, and have found that when my winning doesn't mean you lose, jealousy goes away very quickly. When you practice win-win gamesmanship within your life, polyamoury quickly becomes not only preferable, but viable.


P.S. There is also tit-for-tat, (a favorite because I'm fond of tits)

You lost me there. I think I'm going to need some examples.

If there's a threesome couple living together, (one man and two girls, all hetero) and the man finds one of the girls is better looking than the other, (not a very unique situation) and she gets more atention than the other. Both real and percieved. How is this a win-win situation for the woman the man doesn't feel is as sexualy attractive? She might have other great qualities, but we all want sexual attention.

Just as you point out, you like tits. Women with bigger tits gets more attention from men than women with smaller tits. That's been scientificaly proven many times.

[Qmoq]

Hi there,

Well, looks like I opened a can of worms. It was partially deliberate - I didn’t understand how the three-way relationship could work, but some of the posts I’ve seen (particularly those from the subs) seem to suggest it can, if it’s managed correctly.

I may have caused offence there, it wasn’t intended. If my questions seemed to be expressed in a forthright manner, it was simply because I wanted my meaning to be clear, and not to express it in polite management-speak.

The other thing I should say is that I’m not offended by those who thought they insulted me. But I should explain my “jealousy”. I do not look at ANY gal on this site who is happy with her guy/gal (no matter how sister/brother subs she has) and think “She should be with me”. My jealousy is really the sort of jealousy that anyone not in a wholly satisfying relationship feels for someone who is.

Now I’ll respond to individual points. Apologies if I miss anyone.
dzire, you make a point that I’ve not thought about - that the dom might need a new sub to complete them. In other words, it’s not that the existing sub isn’t providing what they want, it’s that the new sub fills a gap. If I understand you correctly, and if both subs realise that they are fulfilling needs that the other sub can’t fulfil, I can see how that could work AND be satisfying with no jealousy.

Ah Desperado, if only all gals were like you... we’d probably need twice as many. Smiles.

Tojo, I agree with lisa’s post, and that would work if the subs were able to get on. In that circumstance, it could work. What if they don’t get on? What if they do perceive each other as rivals?

Aesop, I can assure you that there isn’t a LOT of jealousy. I admit that some of my questions might have been loaded, but surely you can see that if there’s a sub who’s not happy having a sister/brother sub, they might be inhibited about admitting it. Your response was as frank as my questions, so I can’t complain. I wasn’t offended, and I normally have a very thin skin. You do make a great point - one-on-one relationships, like all relationships, have a high fail rate. Sadly, we’ve seen that a lot too.

Superbitch, thanks for your post, you have a complex relationship, but the answer to your fourth question proves that these things can work.

Lily and mina, you worded my thoughts in a much lovelier and tactful way than I did! I’m just curious, but I do have a little trepidation about one-on-one subs who genuinely fear that a new sub is brought in. You expressed both wonderfully.

Aussiegirl, of all the posts on this thread, yours is the most eloquent explanation of how a one-many relationship CAN work. Despite your eloquence, it’s your final comment that really sums it up perfectly. If it works, it just works.

fantasy, you point out the tragic thing to an inexperienced dom like me that has lots of good qualities... “subs flock to those they perceive to be good, experienced doms. To those subless doms, I advise you to observe and learn from the behavior and comments of these doms with multiple subs.” It’s the word “experienced” that gets me! Never mind. That’s a different topic altogether.

Oz, again more good points. Your last one is the key: “I don't see why it shouldn't work if everyone involves is communicating.” My counter argument to this is that the existing sub - if annoyed - will hold her tongue, because she doesn’t want to question her dom. That’s really my worry about these things - the existing sub, and how she/he feels. Don’t say it doesn’t happen, and don’t say put it down to “just a lack of communication between existing sub and dom”. It’s more complicated than that in practice: I’ve seen it happen twice in secure online relationships, and I’ve heard it happen in real life. In each case that I’m thinking of, I’ve been (at least) moderately close friends with all involved, and it’s really upset me to see the existing sub go through their heartache. This CLEARLY isn’t happening with Tojo/Aesop/Desperado’s situations though.

Demon, I guess you show that each situation is different, and it’s what is “real” that counts. Hugs.

Dragon’s Muse, I love the expression “He informed that i was going to have self-esteem "in spite of myself".” Thanks for yoru comments, you reinforce (in a different way) what mina and lily say.

Finally, Tom and Oz, I like tits too. Purr.

Right, I think I’ve covered just about everyone, so I’ll leave it there.

Q xx

[Ozme52]

You lost me there. I think I'm going to need some examples.

If there's a threesome couple living together, (one man and two girls, all hetero) and the man finds one of the girls is better looking than the other, (not a very unique situation) and she gets more atention than the other. Both real and percieved. How is this a win-win situation for the woman the man doesn't feel is as sexualy attractive? She might have other great qualities, but we all want sexual attention.

Just as you point out, you like tits. Women with bigger tits gets more attention from men than women with smaller tits. That's been scientificaly proven many times.

I guess my answer to that is... so what. The one who gets less attention... maybe it's enough. I didn't say all was equal. I said everyone is happy.

Your example implies an extreme case and presumes all else is equal. I would suggest successful polys find that "on the whole" things balace out.

[Radiance]

I agree with you there delia...laughing although i am never wrong.haha

Jokes

[Timberwolf]

Cheers to that delia. One of the things that makes the lifestyle work as well as it does is the general acceptance that everyone is entitled to their own version of kink. A million flavours for a million people.

[Tojo]

I think when we got to the 'quick cum fix' & 'greed is more of an issue' this thread died.

I find that offensive & don't wish to comment further.

Aussiegirl, that was a lovely post. Thank you. :)
Thanks also to Q for that last post.


Tojo

[frankee]

Ok, here's my take on it.

When a Dom/me has more than one sub, it could be that each sub fulfills a need in Him/Her that the other sub doesn't

The Dom/me could love His/Hers sub(s) in different ways. i don't neccessarily think that it's out of greed or wanting to be, as they say 'the big man on campus'. (although i'm sure there a few idiots out like that)

And then there's the Dom/me that just wants one sub and it works out great, they fulfill each other's every need and want. That's great too!

i suppose ....'different strokes for different folks'. Whatever works for each relationship.


Great Thread!

[Silke]

Although it's not for me, I can actually understand poly in real life more than I can online. At least in real life, one sub doesn't necessarily take away time from another sub. All can play together and share chores, creating more time for play. But online, it seems to be a mathmatical fact that one sub does take time from another. There are only 24 hours in a day - estimating at least 9 spent at work, 7 spent sleeping, 4 spent on meals and traveling to and from work, 1 spent grooming, 2 spent with the wife and kids, that leaves an hour a day to play. I want that hour, every day. I don't want to alternate days or wait until weekends. Moreover, when a dom is thinking about another sub, that is time he isn't thinking about me. I want a dom who spends as much time thinking about me as I spend thinking about him. We've all sympathized with Silke when she has spent days without any contact and have seen how emotionally difficult that is for her. No offense, but I can't understand settling for an hour of somebody (no matter how great that hour may be), unless that dom is just a temporary stop during a search from someone who can commit his whole self.

How could I miss this thread? Oh right...work, lol.

Anyway - I'm not going to go into the whole thing, but wanted to comment on your thoughts here, fantassy. :)

We actually do share time, even play together, discuss work together...so it might not really be too different from real life in that aspect. Do I sometimes miss having Master all to myself? Yep, sometimes. But you know, one thing I learned from my short experience of being in a poly relationship is, that you have to be open about what you expect, what you want, what you're missing etc...then it works. When I bring up something and need to talk about it, I'll have his full attention - same with SB.

You know, for me it doesn't take anything from me...I gained something. Now I don't only have a wonderful Master but also a new sister. We're having the time of our lives, be it together or seperately. I'm sure I'd have more jealous feelings if I didn't love her so much, though. I guess we were lucky that way. And, nope, I wouldn't want to have it any other way. :)

Another thing - I'm sure I wouldn't have lived through the time Master was away if it hadn't been for my sis. Her love was what kept me sane as much as humanly possible. We don't battle for time, fantassy, we spend it together. As far as I know, all three of us are winners and nobody lost anything in the process.

Just my two cents. :)

[Timberwolf]

"I think when we got to the 'quick cum fix' & 'greed is more of an issue' this thread died.

I find that offensive & don't wish to comment further."

Why? You can't seriously sit there and tell me there aren't Doms out there using their position to, quite frankly, live every 16 year old boy's dream at the expense of certain sub's emotions. Done behind the guise of a poly relationship, of a far less legitimate variety than the kind (from what I gather) people like yourself and Aesop are involved in. If it doesn't apply to you because your relationship with your women is more serious (and the same goes to Aesop) there should be no need to get offended to something that doesn't even apply to you.

Using subs strickly for a Dom's pleasure at any cost is obviously not an exclusively poly issue by the wildest stretch of the imagination, but the way some of the Doms (who seem like perfectly respectable gentlemen who treat their women well, I might add) have simply shrugged it off without offering much in the way of an actual answer has quite frankly been the most interesting thing I've seen in this thread so far.

[Timberwolf]

To expand and clarify on the above. Again, I see no reason that a real poly relationship can't work, though I see it as a more complicated version of the "regular" relationship. But if the three (or for that matter, more) peopel involved in it all mesh well, then it can work absolutely. "Real" poly relationship meaning a legit D/s bond buiult on trust, respect etc. and not a Dom simply using his place to get ahold of as many girls as he can. And in no way am I accusing anyone in this thread of being that kind of man. Absolutely not.

But I do feel there have been a couple of answers from the Doms that almost come off with the vibe of "I'm a Dom so either (a) I'm entitled to more than one woman, or (b) I don't need to justify anything I do". I think both are weak answers. If I'm miss-reading that vibe, then I apologize. But so far the subs have been, by far, the more insightful half of this discussion.

I will say I can understand how to a point one could take offense to having their style of relationship questioned, as almost all lifestylers must face that in one degree or another at some point.

I honsetly don't mean to stir anything with any of that, just stating what I see at this time as the facts to this point. Nothing more meant than that.

[Silke]

Tojo, Timberwolf...just a friendly warning at this point. Keep the emotional finger pointing down and don't let this interesting thread die like this. This is one of those opportunities to show how open we all really are - wanting to find out how other people think, accept their kinks even if we don't share them. I hope you'll remember to keep this a friendly discussion. I'll be watching you and everybody else for that matter... ;)

[Aesop]

You know I always find it odd when these conversations turn like this. I answered the questions because I wanted to give out some info that poly really isn't all that different than a one on one relationship, but I didn't want to enter a debate on whether or not it's good or bad and I still don't want to.

Everyone wants to be accepted for who they are and what they do. Everyone. Homosexuals fight the lack this, bdsm folks fight it, black folks, hell even men with long hair fight it sometimes.

On the flipside of that seems to be this need to put other groups in a box or something. To say they all to this or that when we know it's not true for ourselves. I do it myself now and again and when I realize it I don't like that I did it. Those comments like the one about fucking everything in town lump me in with people who do that. Since I don't, I don't like it. It's just that simple.

As for justifying myself....well I don't really need to justify myself to anyone but those I love ya know? I'll be glad to expand on the answers I gave if you like though. Just let me know which ones you'd like more info on.

[Aussiegirl1]

Aussiegirl, of all the posts on this thread, yours is the most eloquent explanation of how a one-many relationship CAN work. Despite your eloquence, it’s your final comment that really sums it up perfectly. If it works, it just works.

Thanks Q. :)

I am glad you found my post to be elequent, I know I tried hard to think about my response. I also agree that last comment says it all!

I also understand that you are just trying to understand something you have not experienced. I fully understand that, I have spent this year doing that!


Aussiegirl, that was a lovely post. Thank you.

Tojo, it means a lot to me that you liked what I posted too. You know how I feel about our time together and how much it means to me. :)

[Timberwolf]

"As for justifying myself....well I don't really need to justify myself to anyone but those I love ya know?"

Justify might be the wrong term. Because I'm in a similar situation in a one on one myself. Surrounded by vanillas, in love with a woman I have a D/s relationship with.

And you *are* right, I don't have to justify a damn thing to anyone but her and me.

I by no means want to see this turn ugly. I can see why it can be a touchy topic, if I've ruffled anyone the wrong way I do apologize for that.

[frankee]

Tojo, Timberwolf...just a friendly warning at this point. Keep the emotional finger pointing down and don't let this interesting thread die like this. This is one of those opportunities to show how open we all really are - wanting to find out how other people think, accept their kinks even if we don't share them. I hope you'll remember to keep this a friendly discussion. I'll be watching you and everybody else for that matter... ;)

mmmmm i love it when she gets in the 'bossy' mode LOL! ;)

[Tojo]

Tojo, Timberwolf...just a friendly warning at this point. Keep the emotional finger pointing down and don't let this interesting thread die like this.


Actually I was just repeating what Aesop said...


Tojo

[elfstone8402]

it's all about love and meeting needs. So a married sub unwilling to leave the marriage may only be available part-time to her Master. It's regular, but part-time. So the Master has another part-time sub. Why is this judged?

I do not believe any one person will meet all your needs, so I think the idea of forced monogamy is greedy, because someone has issues with sharing. Kind of like the divorced guys who shoot their ex's because that way no other guys will have her either.

Love is in the moment. It cannot be limited I have been in relationships where I lived in a dorm of women and never touched them because my love was elsewhere and i had no DESIRE to, but not because it was a should or a should not. I have had 2 subs at once.

Never had a slave maybe that's different.

[slave_lisa]

The world is based on a matter of opinion.... that has a been a personal saying of mine for a long time and it is all to true.

Frankly I find it rather condesending that some people cannot accept/understand that others may think of life differently. If someone decideds to have multiple subs then so be it, let that be there life and let them deal with the outcome... what place is it of ours to question/demeen such a desicion?

Really this topic never died... sorry to say it only went to the dogs. For such open minded people you sure discuse opinion alot. I realize alot of this is experssing those opinions but I also see the subtle, hidden (and not so hidden) remarks that (intentional or not) harm and undermine others. This I take exception too. One should always choose there words carefully and/or make clear that they mean no judgment/harm/insult... everything else is free game huh...

In my opinion multiple sub relationships can work perfectly... it just requires willingness, openness, good judgement, patience, love, and consistancy. Really... when you look at it... its like any other relation we as humans ever make... weither its that guy talking on his cell phone while driving, the lady at the cashier counting pennies, or the third sub to your 'collection' (to use the word lightly)

....And we wonder why the world is falling to pieces....

[Tojo]

Excellent post sweetie. :)


Tojo

[TomOfSweden]

I guess my answer to that is... so what. The one who gets less attention... maybe it's enough. I didn't say all was equal. I said everyone is happy.

Your example implies an extreme case and presumes all else is equal.


Of the BDSM polys I know of this is the most common situation that has to be dealt with all the time. Either a man with two women or with a woman and two men. Not as a permanent arrangement but as something that spontaneusly is created and disolved due to everybodies conflicting needs.



I would suggest successful polys find that "on the whole" things balace out.

That's quite an assumtion which actually may be true for some polys, but I doubt it's true for all, or even all that common.

Here's an assumtion I have, all people are greedy and want their needs fulfilled. Jelously apears when we think we're entitled to more than we're getting and some people, (destructive subs) deny themselves the needs they have. For any healthy relationship all people involved needs to have their needs fulfilled. This is hard enough with just two people.

To be absolutely clear on this. When I use the expression, "having needs fulfilled" I don't mean getting everything we want. Sometimes what we need is getting denied the things we want. We know our needs are fulfilled when we are happy.

I don't think I'm an emotional train-wreck who can't handle my emotions. I believe that I'm quite a well grounded and level headed guy, and that the women I've had the good fortune to have relationships with have had their needs fulfilled.

I'm certain the poly life-style works great for non-BDSM users, because there's not the need for the same level of trust or attention to one anothers needs. I've still not heard of any BDSM poly relationship that works for any length of time.

edit: I'm not saying it's impossible. I just can't wrap my head around how it actually would work in practice. Polyamoury implies no control or ownership which I would think would make D/s contradictory?

[Silke]

*sighs* You know, guys and gals...I actually LOVE this thread. It's one of those subjects that have such great potential to let us learn something new. I'm not talking about convincing anyone that our individual point of view is right or wrong...I'm talking about getting in the head of someone else and trying to understand how they feel and think.

It breaks my heart to see people offending and getting offended left and right. It's not necessary - nobody wants to take anything away from you personally, you know?

I love this thread and would like to actually contribute more of my own experience...but right now, I feel like whatever I'm going to say will be beaten down. Go figure, eh? I never thought this would happen to me here and it makes me sad.

If I see any more bashing going on here (and this goes to everyone now), I'll have to close this thread and it'll break my heart - it's one of the most interesting ones I've seen here in a long time. Please don't let it die.

[TomOfSweden]

I love this thread and would like to actually contribute more of my own experience...but right now, I feel like whatever I'm going to say will be beaten down. Go figure, eh? I never thought this would happen to me here and it makes me sad.

If I see any more bashing going on here (and this goes to everyone now), I'll have to close this thread and it'll break my heart - it's one of the most interesting ones I've seen here in a long time. Please don't let it die.

I hope your not talking about me. If I've offended anyone I apologise. That was not my intention. I'm trying to understand, and not force my views on others.

[Silke]

Talking about my general feel when reading this thread...I just wanted everyone to question yourselves and check where you might be going over the top (on both sides of the obvious fence here) - not talking to anyone in particular right now.

I'll be glad to post my views and I'm sure so are some of the others who've decided to become a little more quiet here. But as long as I have an uneasy feeling in the pit of my stomach that I'll be eaten alive, I'll stick to being a super mod and do my job. If tempers calm down a little, I'll gladly step back to posting my personal views. Believe me, I like that better, lol.

[Qmoq]

I actually LOVE this thread. It's one of those subjects that have such great potential to let us learn something new.

Honey, rest assured that I have already learned something new. Genuinely, I was sceptical but willing to see how a multi-sub relationship could work. And even before you posted, I could see how it could happen. I know it's not for everyone, but I'm no longer a sceptic. In fact, SB mentioned a multi-dom relationship, which makes her happy.

So, even if this thread does descend into a torrent of name-calling and overly judgemental statements (and I don't think it has yet, but it's early) then I won't mind because I've learned something.

I will mind, however, if people get hurt by this thread. It would probably stop me posting any more "controversial" thoughts.

Hugs and chocolate for all.

Q xx

[frankee]

Don't be sad Silke.*hugs* It's a great thread that was started and i would like to see more of you posts on this subject.

Q...did you say chocolate? i will definitely behave then:)

[shins]

When angel and I started talking, I made it clear to her early on that I had a vision of another subbie, and if we were to get involved, she could expect that one day, if we ever find her...(hint, hint) she will have a sub-sister. We talked about it a fair amount, and while at first she hesitated, she eventually found acceptance and benefit in the idea.

Why do I need this? I was thinking about this thread while watching tv yesterday. angel was gently rubbing my scalp, and i realized that she couldnt rub my feet as long as she was up near my head, lol. But if she had a sub-sister.....

Seriously though, the amount of controversy that this topic has stirred among our family has surprised me. Out of any sort of group gathering in life, the people in our lifestyle tend to be more acceptant of others. Do I think it's possible to have a poly/bdsm dynamic? Yes, without doubt. Would it be hard to manage? Certainly. Lots of us search all our lives for 'the one'. It stands to reason that finding two 'the one's' would be much more difficult. Difficult, but not impossible. angel and I may never get our wish for a sub-sister. We've sampled a few and never made it past the first few rounds of emails and chats, but we won't stop the search, because that is the dynamic that we both desire. At the same time, lack of finding her will not ruin what we have together, and we are both content with each other whether we find her or not.

[Dragon's muse]

Even after having been in the lifestyle since my late teens i am still amazed at times. Poly V. Mono is still the most divisive topic i have found. In almost every other area, most everyone involved can agree to disagree and move on. But bring the Poly/Mono question up, and so many jump to the ramparts with their guns blazing. Not just here, i have been through this same topic in real-life groups, and it got a lot uglier a lot quicker.

i wonder sometimes why this topic in particular brings up such defensive responses?

Ponderingly,
muse

[dzire2pleeze]

Seems to me this is how wars begin.

At this moment, I am thinking of Q and how awful he must feel. All he did was start an interesting thread, seeking answers for himself. His quest to understand a lifestyle that was different (not wrong) in his eyes began with an innocent question.

This is not about "I do it this way, so it's the only right way." If more people would just "live and let live" methinks what a wonderful world this would be.

~sighs heavily~

[frankee]

i agree with d2p.

Poor Q was just asking about this because he wasnted to have his questions answered not out of any disrespect or to start a war.

i think it's a great thread and more people should contribute to it.:)

[Silke]

You know, I'm glad I wasn't the only one feeling this went too far and is hoping we'll get back on track. From the reactions so far, I'm thinking we still have a chance for peace without everyone retreating into their shells and the topic dying.

Q - never feel afraid to post hot topics - in fact, I hope we'll have many more. It's part of my job to step in when tempers get overheated, that's what moderating means. It's tricky to do when you're also posting on the subject or intending to - but I'm hoping I'm managing the balance act and didn't only kick out to one side. If anybody feels I did, feel free to kick back privately. ;)

I'll share my own views some more if the seas stay calm for a bit. :)

Dragon's muse - I never realized this was such an explosive topic. And like you, I'd love to learn why it is this way. I, for one, don't even feel the need to justify myself. I'll be glad to share my views if I feel there is honest interest, and if someone doesn't like them for themselves, that's fine by me. I'm the one making those decisions and they only have to work for me and the people involved. I don't need a general absolution for the life I lead.

[Dragon's muse]

It does seem strange, with all the other issues that can be endlessly debated without getting into the snarkiness. Couple A practices safe, sane and consentual: Couple B practices Risk Aware Consentual Kink. They acknowledge they probably should not scene/play together and no one gets upset. Some get off on electrical, others don't -- and no one feels the need to get emotional and "defend" their rights to shock or not to shock.

This one issue, though, seems to arouse so much strong feeling in a loosely knit group that (as Shins pointed out) is normally tolerant and non-judgemental to an extreme.

Just sad, very sad.

Silke, i would love to hear your views.

[fantassy]

I really hope this thread doesn't get shut down. It is a topic that hasn't been addressed since I've been a member. Many people new to BDSM come to the forum hoping to learn about the various kinks. Part of that learning is trying to understand the nuts and bolts and psychology of what makes a kink work for those who enjoy it. Not understanding does not always equate to not accepting. If a kink gives pleasure to the participants and doesn't harm anyone, I fully accept it. However, sometimes I struggle with understanding. The more people generously share their mindsets about their kink, the more understanding I achieve. In stating "these are the problems I perceive with this kink," I am hoping someone will explain, as Silke did, why those problems are not problems for her. So many of us are here to learn and figure out just how BDSM might work for us, a thread like this is really helpful.

fantassy

[Tojo]

First up the next moderator can be d2p I think. :)

OK, so we all got a little excited- never mind. I'll try & set a good example, forget all that & speak of my own experience, which is what I normally do.

Well I'm married to a straight woman, who I love very much & intend to stay with as long as we're both alive.

If I didn't have a girl online I'd probably be dead inside & unable to care so much for my wife. I may even grow to detest her for causing me to miss a part of my life that means so much.

I have more than one girl I care for online- I also have a D/s relationship with more than one.

First & foremost in my life is lisa- I'm a kind of carer & friend mostly.
I try & keep her living her life in a way that seems right to me. We've been together almost a year now, spending time together each day.

I also have some sort of D/s relationship with Aussiegirl- I had NO intention of starting something with her, apart from friendship. She's helped me find a part of myself I'd lost for a while. She's a truly beautiful person, who means a lot to me.

Then there's Jane- we don't have a D/s relationship, but we sure have something! There's others, but never mind about that...

To define all the relationships I have would be pointless. I know some girls who are the finest, most wonderful people I've ever met. I am truly blessed.

It works- I get different things from each one, I love them all in different ways. It's not for everyone perhaps- I'm sure there's plenty of women who'd be revolted at the thought of sharing. That's fine by me!

So- if it works for me, & works for them, why should I not love more than one?

I don't believe in flogging, caning, public humiliation or a million other things I see every day on this & other forums. So what? If two people want to do something, good for them. Who are we to judge?

Tojo

[Silke]

'k then...here's my story. ;)

I've never been someone who's strictly monogamous, it just happened to turn out this way with the guys I was with. I remember discussions with my friends about this - from a 'nilla perspective of having sex outside of a relationship and such - and all of my friends pretty much agree that if you even have those kind of feelings that you 'have to look for fun outside of your relationship', it's not the perfect match. Everything you're looking for should be provided by one person and you can't love more than one person at the time - it's wrong to even think about this...

Well, this view never appealed to me. Back then, out of different reasons than now. I just never had the feeling that having different partners at the same time was such a big deal, as long as everybody involved was fine with it. Not talking about secret affairs, but about open relationships.

What's been building between Master, my sis and me here is more special than what I had in mind back then. *smiles* When SB and I found out about each other and started talking, we clicked extremely quickly and became friends. It was awesome to be able to share our experiences and feelings...we could relate to each other's worries, joys and the love in both of our lives perfectly - it felt like paradise to me! I loved having her in my life and as I said in an earlier post, if it hadn't been for her, those lonely weeks would have been almost unbearable.

Ever since that time, we've pretty much shared everything...including the domly one in our lives. *grins* We have a ball plotting mischief, we share the fun and the sadness, support each other, flirt a LOT *giggles*, share our fantasies, wreck Master's nerves....lol, ok, strike that last one - I think he's enjoying it. ;) We've become sisters.

I'm sure I'd have more problems with jealousies if I didn't love both of them to bits. How can you be jealous of someone when you're happy for them at the same time? I'm pretty sure that the issue would have come up for me, if I hadn't clicked with my sis in such a wonderful way...then I might have felt the competition some people here mentioned. The way things are now, I feel as if I've gained a LOT and I'm not losing anything. I feel loved and special and secure and blessed by having found two people I just adore and who give me so much...I want to shout it out to everyone, lol.

Do I think I'm missing something? It was mentioned somewhere in this thread that this constellation couldn't work in a D/s relationship...because you don't really commit and don't own the person. Well, I, for one, feel we're committing and I certainly feel owned. More so than I ever dreamed of. Why does love have to be exclusive between two people? I know it can be and that's wonderful for those two involved...but why should that be the only way? What does Master's love for my sis take away from what he and I have? Nothing between him and me has changed, other than that I gained a wonderful sister. I remember him asking me whether I'd mind if he assigned some of my tasks to her and my reply was the same - you're not taking anything away from me, you're giving something to her. I was excited that we could share yet another experience, wanted to see how she deals with this, was curious whether this would be easier or harder than for me...

Lol, I'm more jealous of his work and the people who actually get to live with him while we are so far apart. That's where my jealousy lies and that's what might become a problem at some stage if I don't find a r/l partner who's as open as we obviously are. It's a situation I dread and hope it will never happen.

[Talia]

'k then...here's my story. ;)

We have a ball plotting mischief, we share the fun and the sadness, support each other, flirt a LOT *giggles*, share our fantasies, wreck Master's nerves....lol, ok, strike that last one - I think he's enjoying it. ;) We've become sisters.



ok...that probably wasn't a good idea to admit openly....


Ok..Daddy....she instigated it all...I was a very good little girl...Always Daddy's little girl...

*running off to find duct tape to tie Silke's hands together so she won't let our secrets out*.

[shins]

'k then...here's my story. ;)

...
Ever since that time, we've pretty much shared everything...including the domly one in our lives. *grins* We have a ball plotting mischief, we share the fun and the sadness, support each other, flirt a LOT *giggles*, share our fantasies, wreck Master's nerves....lol, ok, strike that last one - I think he's enjoying it. ;) We've become sisters.

...


I think this is what Q was looking for in his post. It's such a sensitive subject, tempers flaired. Some people felt invaded, were put on the defensive. They are the ones lucky enough to be living this arrangement (IMO), and others that truly don't have a desire for it felt the need to speak out. Thank you Silke and Tojo for sharing the intimacies that we don't necsesarily need to know about. I'm glad you all did, because (I hope) that it will move this thread forward positively. Its not a matter of jealousy, it's about 2,3,4-... however many it takes to make a group of individuals enjoy each other. Occasionally, one might get jealous or one might feel neglected. Thats what a poly relationship deals with. Sexual benefits aside, its FUN. :) Some of us like to play together, not occasionally but all the time, and I sincerely hope that everyone can understand that. Do we have that truly intimate one on one experience? If we are allowed the time to grow, just as a vanilla or a mono bdsm couple has, possibly so. I honestly can't say for sure, because I'm guiding us into it, but I never want to hurt angel. If she puts the breaks on it out of discomfort, I will listen to her, but so far, she's ready to embrace it as much as me. Some of us need this. It's not about committing to a single person. It's about a few people that have searched all their lives for what makes them whole, and they have finally realized that they can't find it without a couple of partners. For those that can, hell yeah, *tips the hat to you*. Congratulations, you've aquired what most search for, but please, don't pass judgement on the others that find it a different way. I'd spend some time getting into graphic details, but instead, I'll say...I don't have the...um...equipment that keeps angel happy all the time. She has a fondness for... let's just say that I don't have it all...;)

Thank you Q for the thread that you started. I've learned alot from reading everyone's responses. Sorry I've cheated it and posted without answering your questions. I am trying to get there, but I can't post the answers because I haven't lived through the dynamic yet. *Crosses fingers* perhaps eventually I'll know and be able to respond from experience instead of desire.

[TomOfSweden]

Thanks Silke for helping me to understand. I assumed that there would be rivalry between the women for some reason. Silly me. I never thought of a sceniaro where the two women also fell for one another.

I think it's just me. In the 14 years in the scene I've only found two slaves that developed into relationships that were more than just sex. I think it's only because I find it so hard to find slaves that I didn't understand. In my life a slave has always been a rare and precious gem to be cared for which in my mind so far has meant exclusiveness only for it's scarcity.

Thanks again Silke for broadening my horizons.

[Silke]

Ok..Daddy....she instigated it all...I was a very good little girl...Always Daddy's little girl...

*running off to find duct tape to tie Silke's hands together so she won't let our secrets out*.

*shakes head laughing* I can still talk with my hands tied, sis...blonde moment? :p


In my life a slave has always been a rare and precious gem to be cared for which in my mind so far has meant exclusiveness only for it's scarcity.

Tom, if I ever wake up to find I don't feel special anymore, this is over. I feel blessed every single day to have found not only one, but two gems who happen to return my love. I agree, this might be rare...

Now, someone wave that magic wand and let us all live happily ever after on an island far, far away...;)

[fuktoimaso]

Thanks for bringing up these questions, Qmoq.
I have wondered the same things. My Dom and I have talked about a possible addition, I feel it would add to what we have...so its good to hear what others have to say about their own experiences.

I am not the jealous type, I think I would find it easier to talk about what is best for everyone rather than to harbor negative feelings.

I imagine the Dom and sub would need to be very honest with each other before someone new would be introduced as well.

[Talia]

*shakes head laughing* I can still talk with my hands tied, sis...blonde moment? :p



ok...so I meant type...:rolleyes:

[Jadetiger]

Qmoq,
Very intense subject indeed. I have been in this situation myself but since you asked for successfully relationships I don’t have to commit on my experience in being the online sub who finds her master has gotten another sub since it did not work out. Nor the fact that I am dominant in real life and have subs of my own. By the way I recently say a title Dom/switch and I think that pretty much sums me up. :whip2:

I can comment on some of the questions you asked. First back ground on my subs, both are male, both are bi curious and both are switches. Mike has been with me for 7 months and he was one of the 2 subs I picked from interviews back in February. Ronnie who I also picked was released 4 months ago. Not because of any issues with Mike but with issues regarding us. I never even let them meet. I was never comfortable enough with our relationship to add a third person in the mix. I have since interviewed again and I am currently spending a lot of time with Jeff. Mike and Jeff have both meet and are anxiously awaiting the time when we will all play together. My relationship with Jeff is only 4 weeks old and unfortunately the horny bastards are just going to have to wait until I am ready. ~grins

For the dom, I’d like to know:
1. Why do you think it’s working, when other similar relationships have failed?
I think it will work because they both want it. I actually have a hard time sharing but since they are really craving this kind of relationship it is making my need to experience a secret desire even more tempting. My profile which they both read stated there would be multiple subs and group play. It is a fantasy they also want to come true.

2. If one of your charges complained, what would you do?
That is one of the reasons I am moving so slow in the first place. I want them to interact in a normal social atmosphere before anything sexual or intense happens. It is really more for me than them. I have to feel and see that they truly like each other as people first before I put them in a situation that may make them feel uncomfortable.

3. Why did you take on a second sub?
HMMM honest answer is I don’t want to have to focus my attentions on one person. The truth is I don’t trust myself not to fall in love. That doesn’t mean I don’t love them. I do, it just means I am not in love with either of them. Now for the rest of the truth. I have always fantasized about group play. Not just with men but with women as well. I am not promiscuous person. I know some of you are laughing because you don’t believe it. ~grins I have only had sex with my subs even though I interviewed over a 100 men and they all spent to night. See I have get self control and really cold water in the shower. ;pant; So for me to make the fantasy come true I need to have people around me that I love and care for. So it means making a bdsm family of my own.

Will you think me greedy if I told you I just posted for a real time female sub as well. ~chuckles

4. Do you think either sub might not be totally truthful about having a rival for their affections, because they are worried that they might be the one who is dropped (or equally, because they like the other sub and don’t want to see them hurt)? This includes their response to this thread.

Everything you said is a possibility but it then reflects back on the relationship in general which does not even involve bdsm. Yes I have those fears. I would never drop a sub for not wanting to play with another sub and my subs know they can tell me what and how they feel. But I do fear that maybe they or my self will find out that group play was better as a fantasy. I am sure we will handle it like adults. If it is me that finds group play unappealing then the boys can play together. If one of them fines out they don’t like it then they won’t have too.

5. How would you respond to an ultimatum? Most good doms on this site aren’t the “my way or the highway” kind of chap.
HMMM well the way I look at it they both knew upfront I would have multiple subs. If one gave me an ultimatum then he is free to leave. I don’t force my subs and I don’t let my subs force me either. I have to say it would hurt. I really am very picky about who I let into my life. I become very attached to people and losing them hurts.

6. Do you ever feel as though you can’t spend enough time with each sub? If so, can you clarify question three?
I feel that way all the time but my work takes a huge amount of my time. Both subs know and accept this. I am very blessed in that way.

Hugs, Kisses and Gropes Sweet Q,
Jade

[caligirl{Rob}]

Giggles...oh all these thought provoking questions I have found lately, amazing when you read the forums **smiles**

Would you be more content if you were the only sub, or are you really happier being in a three-way relationship? If so, why?

I would definitely be content as the only sub. I would be more than happy to explore the addition of additional sub were it something Sir wanted, but would think that if it were beyond a "scene" basis I would find it terribly difficult to share Sir. Until Sir A_D I would have hard time explaining feeling the commitment and attachment with an o/l relationship. I am all about pleasing him, but it would be difficult to see how I would feel if he wanted another full-time sub


2. When you have no contact with your dom for a while, do you get jealous? Do you think he is concentrating on the other sub?

No, we have been upfront with one another and I felt complete trust or would not have taken his collar. I am honest with him and he allows me tremendous freedom as long as I am respectful of his position.

3. Would you ever consider issuing an ultimatum (“If I can’t be the only one, it has to end.”)?

Hmmmm an ultimatum??? I don't know if I would put it that way, but I would be honest with him, and if the other sub was someone that brought him great joy and pleasure and was what he needed I would ask to be released, as my submissiveness brings me great pleasure, and not sure I would see it the same way being part of a pair of subs...

4. What did you feel when the second (or third etc) sub was brought into the relationship? Or, if you were the second, how did you feel about the first sub?

On a scene basis I would be fine, as a permanent addition to our relationship I would feel hurt I think. It is hard to say though, if it was something that Sir handled in a way that he has handled the rest of our relationship I would at least be considerate of the idea, I would also be honest with him on how I felt

**smiles** perhaps I have danced around as well!
Hugs and licks!
cali

[buzzy]

As Jade's new sub, one of two, I personally don't have an issue with being one of two. I've met the other and we seem to have gotten along well, for the short time over dinner. Mistress Jade takes care in making me feel very special and I'm sure she treats the other the same. I entered this relationship knowing, I would be part of a poly family. Now, there might be those who don't want or can't handle this type of relationship. So don't go there. For those of us you can and enjoy, it can be very rewarding. It is a personal decision to made by each of us. As in all relationships, honest communication is vital. take care to all

[orchidsoul]

Hiya all,

I just wanted to say how enlightening I find this thread. I've always sort of had the same questions as Q regarding poly relationships. Perhaps I'm a cynic because of my own self awareness (being a scorpio is great in the passion department, but not so hot in the sharing department!)

I've never been able to bring a third into a relationship I've been involved in (for the reasons stated above), but have been involved in *ahem* fun scenarios with more than one person... just no one was my boyfriend, per se.

It's really great to hear how the dynamic works for those of you involved in successful poly relationships. To some degree I'm envious because I can very well see how fun and fulfilling, to all, more than one partner can be, and as I myself have discovered the joys, but never able to share with someone I love.

To reiterate a quote from before, if it works, it works. Communication and honesty are clearly essential in a poly relationship, as in any, but perhaps more so here to avoid any of the potential human responses to sharing. I think it also essential to be aware and know your own limits. Many of us have said it wouldn't work for us because we don't like to share full time, so we don't partake in a poly relationship. And that works for us.

Kudos to all of the succesful relationships... poly and monogamous alike.