News Story

[Rabbit1]

Red Rose Indicted for Obscenity Over Stories About Children


http://www.xbiz.com/news_piece.php?id=17353

[cariad]

Sticking my head up, and waiting to be shot down, but I have no sympathy with anyone who writes, and inparticular publishes, fiction involving children. Particularly children nine years old as was the case here.

I know the arguements to the contrary, but cannot be convinced that fiction does not feed fantasies, which in the occasional case will transfer into reality. It is a risk which I think is unacceptable.

I think Mahatma Ghandi was the first to say that "A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members"; a sentiment which has been quoted, although not always embraced by politicians of many countries.

I would suggest that the greatness (and ultimately the acceptability) of the fetish community can be measured by how it protects its weakest members and members of society as a whole.

cariad

[ElectricBadger]

To be honest, I can't really sympathize with the content either; I too think it's a bit sick. But then, how many people would call a buttplug or an Andrews Cross sick? Glass houses and all.

What strikes me is that someone was arrested and convicted for an act of expression that didn't harm anyone else.

Compare it to say, Ocean's Eleven, or any other big name film (there seem to be a ton lately) that glamorizes theft. Can we honestly say that no one is going to steal something and pretend they're George Clooney? The only difference is the extremism of the fictional crime, and the lack of resources for a legal defense.

[cariad]

You are right of course Electric Badger, and all I can say is, and I know this is not a complete answer, that two wrongs do not make a right, and although all crimes against people are wrong, child abuse is, in my view, infinitely worse than most others. Not prepared to go down a list and compare crimes.

Glamorized theft has been controversial at least since the days of Robin Hood - perhaps that is the subject for another thread....

cariad

[Rabbit1]

I post this as when Tiger took over the site ---he asked me to remove all stories involving anyone under 13 years of age in sexual situations ----needless to say it caused an uproar ---of freedom of speacher that were here ----this case has been going on for a few years now ---and watched closely by site owners ---I do not like child abuse ---but have followed the law here---and such stories have alway been legal ---until now ---

is it right? I do not know ---but I do know Red Rose ---right or wrong was within the law at the time---and is the looser even if this ruling is over turned ----that site has been down for over three years ---the servers in federal custody -----their reputations ruined ---

Now can anyone blame a site owner for trying to protect themselves---I do not think so ---

combine this with the New UKs laws on porn ----the times are a changing ---for better or worse ---

[ElectricBadger]

Yeah, I definitely saw the relevence, and it makes me sad, Rabbit1. The trend of the era is to protect ourselves from exercising our freedom, and it seems like a very sad reversal.

[Rabbit1]

makes you wonder where the free speach went ----when is going to be a crime to think about things ----since it now appears it is a crime to write about them ---or publish someone elses writing ---or in the UK to have any of these writings ----Makes one wonder ---is book burning next---Like I said I do not agree with the subject matter --it personally makes me sick ---but I do believe in a persons right to say ---think ---or write anything they want

As long as no actual crime was committed ---- And the worse part is it only affect sites in the US and UK ----sites located else were are not bound by these laws

but we are the land of the free ---right ---last time I checked we were still supposed to be

[mkemse]

yes, we are still the "Land Of The Free" and have "Freedom Speech & "Expression" as long as those in charge agree we do

[Ozme52]

The loss of freedoms in the USA (and elsewhere within the "free world") is frightening. The approach (and some say it has already arrived) of true oppression may well be on hand.

Look at your life and think about what laws you would be breaking today if you acted as you had in the seventies. Whether you agree with the reasoning or the reasons, the loss to choose for yourself... even regarding things that hold no threat or harm to others, is appalling.

[slave327-834-200]

I do not agree with the subject matter --it personally makes me sick ---but I do believe in a persons right to say ---think ---or write anything they want ..
...As long as no actual crime was committed ----

After reading the article I said nearly the exact the same words to my housemate about it. Although the subject matter also sickens me the thought that someone could face up to 30 years in prison and a £1.5million fine for writing 6 stories, fantasy stories, makes me both angry and sad in equal measure. I do not know this writer and have zero knowledge (or interest) in this subject matter but it seems to me that this writer is being treated as harshly, if not unfortunately more so, than someone who actually commits the crimes depicted... watch out Agatha Christie, Ruth Rendal, Dean Koontz ...

[Ironwulf]

The loss of freedoms in the USA (and elsewhere within the "free world") is frightening. The approach (and some say it has already arrived) of true oppression may well be on hand.

Look at your life and think about what laws you would be breaking today if you acted as you had in the seventies. Whether you agree with the reasoning or the reasons, the loss to choose for yourself... even regarding things that hold no threat or harm to others, is appalling.

While I am not comfortable with erotica involving childrens characters, I believe that I am (and everyone should be) capable of self censorship and do not need that done for me any more then I would want to do it for someone else.

I have just finished reading DELTA OF VENUS by Anaïs Nin and I think its very sad that like Anaïs Nin we live in times where our freedoms can be restricted by the actions of a leader intent of controlling the very thoughts of the people by imposing his supposed moral authority upon them.

Like the people of Europe in the early 40's we in the US have our own little hitler to deal with before sanity can once again prevail.


Anaïs Nin is hailed by many critics as one of the finest examples of writers of female erotica. She was one of the first women to really explore the realm of erotic writing, and certainly the first prominent woman in modern Europe to write erotica. Before her, erotica written by women was virtually unheard of ...

In 1973 she received an honorary doctorate from the Philadelphia College of Art. She was elected to the National Institute of Arts and Letters in 1974. Anaïs Nin died of cancer in Los Angeles, California on January 14, 1977.

In 1990 Philip Kaufman made the film based on her novel Henry & June. It starred Maria de Medeiros as Nin, Fred Ward as Henry Miller, and Uma Thurman as June. The film became famous as the first film given the NC-17 rating by the Motion Picture Association of America.

Excerpt from The Hungarian Adventurer, DELTA OF VENUS by Anaïs Nin:


He traveled to Rome and took a suite at the Grand Hotel. The suite happened to be next to that of the Spanish Ambassador, who was staying there with his wife and two small daughters. The Baron charmed them, too. The Ambassador's wife admired him. They became so friendly and he was so delightful with the children, who did not know how to amuse themselves in this hotel, that soon it became a habit of the two little girls, upon getting up in the morning, to go and visit the Baron and awaken him with laughter and teasing, which they were not permitted to lavish upon their more solemn father and mother.

One little girl was about ten, the other twelve. They were both beautiful, with huge velvet-black eyes, long silky hair and golden skin. They wore short white dresses and short white socks. Shrieking, the two little girls would run into the Baron's room and playfully throw themselves over his big bed. He would tease them, fondle them.

Now the Baron, like many men, always awakened with a peculiarly sensitive condition of the penis. In fact, he was in a most vulnerable state. He had no time to rise and calm the condition by urinating. Before he could do this the two little girls had run across the shining floor and thrown themselves over him, and over his prominent penis, which the big pale blue quilt somewhat concealed.

The little girls did not mind how their skirts flew upward and their slender dancer's legs got tangled and fell over his penis lying straight in the quilt. Laughing, they turned over on him, sat on him, treated him like a horse, sat astride him and pushed down on him, urging him to swing the bed by a motion of his body. With all this, they would kiss him, pull at his hair, and have childish conversations. The Baron's delight in being so treated would grow into excruciating suspense.

One of the girls was lying on her stomach, and all he had to do was to move a little against her to reach his pleasure. So he did this playfully, as if he meant to finally push her off the bed. He said, "I am sure you will fall off if I push this way."

"I won't fall off," said the little girl, holding on to him through the covers while he moved as if he would force her to roll over the side of the bed. Laughing, he pushed her body up, but she lay close to him, her little legs, her little panties, everything, rubbing against him in her effort not to slide off, and he continued his antics while they laughed. Then the second girl, wishing to even the strength of the game, sat astride him in front of the other one, and now he could move even more wildly with the weight of both on him. His penis, hidden in the thick quilt, rose over and over again between the little legs, and it was like this that he came, with a strength he had rarely known, surrendering the battle, which the girls had won in a manner they never suspected.

Another time when they came to play with him he put his hands under the quilt. Then he raised the quilt with his forefinger and dared them to catch it. So with great eagerness, they began to chase the finger, which disappeared and reappeared in different parts of the bed, catching it firmly in their hands. After a moment it was not the finger but the penis they caught over and over again, and seeking to extricate it, he made them grasp it more strongly than ever. He would disappear under the covers completely, and taking his penis in his hand suddenly thrust it upward for them to catch.

He pretended to be an animal, sought to catch and bite them, sometimes quite near where he wanted to, and they took great delight in this. With the "animal" they also played hide-and-seek. The "animal" was to spring at them from some hidden corner. He hid in the closet on the floor and covered himself with clothes. One of the little girls opened the closet. He could see under her dress; he caught her and bit her playfully on the thighs.

So heated were the games, so great were the confusion of the battle and the abandon of the little girls at play, that very often his hand went everywhere he wanted it to go.

Personally, I did not find the passage above arousing or very erotic even though the rest of the story was. However, I did find it amusing and a witty play of words.

Should someone go to jail or be fined for that ? I think not ...
Should it be burned to protect society ? I think not ...