Wanting some feedback

[Lord Douche]

Okay, so I was thinking of what to write for the next chapter of Julie (http://www.bdsmlibrary.com/stories/story.php?storyid=1895), and I was wondering just what people think of it so far.
I'm trying to write something a bit different from the usual telling of a fantasy story, and so far I think things are going well. Things have been developing nicely so far, and I'll let you know that I'm only just revealing the main plot-line for it :D Things are all falling into place.
I hope I'm not breaking any "unspoken rules" or something like that, but the forum is better to communicate through than via the review section or e-mail, and I'm curious about peoples' thoughts.
Not that I'll listen to you, since this is my story and I'll write whatever the hell I want ;)

Honest opinions please :) I have a big enough swollen head from the e-mails I get, even if they are "Like the story" and little else.

[Moggy]

There will always be plenty of short 'pure porn' stories on the site. GO FOR THE PLOT!!! It can be a useful exercise if you ever aspire to write a 'real' novel.

[Lord Douche]

I was actually wondering just how far I'm willing to take this story. How big will I, or can I, take it? I wrote out an outline for what I'm planning for it, so that I have something to follow as I write.
@Moggy, have you read it? Your thoughts?

[Alex Bragi]

G'day mate,

Okay, now I'm going to be as blunt as you. Are you looking for feedback, or are you perhaps just wanting a little ego stroking here ?
I'm going to play it safe and give you a little of both.

Your story is very good so far, I've just finished reading the first two chapters, and your high score reflects that. Its rough and gutsy like it should be. But, and I'm sorry there are a couple of 'buts'. Its rather one dimensional. What the hell does that mean I hear you say. I mean it reads too much like the reader is standing in the shadows watching, and while there is nothing wrong with that, it could be so much more interesting to get deeper inside your characters heads. That's the great thing about writing in the third person, so use it to your fullest advantage.

e.g. 'Julies'(sic) eyes widened at the sudden anger in the woman's voice, and wondered why she was so nasty.'

Eyes widening at the sudden anger - an excellent description. Wondering why she was so nasty - passive and flat.

On the nit picky side, you do need to proof read more carefully. Oh boy, don't I just feel like the midget calling the munchkin short for saying that! The grammar and spelling are spot on, however a number of your sentences read awkwardly.

e.g. 'A week later, Kate stood in the doctor's room nervously in her hospital gown...'

Should perhaps read - A week later, Kate stood nervously in the doctor's room in her hospital gown

You can do a lot of things in a hospital gown, but 'nervously' is not one of them.

Try not to use adverbs if you can. I realise its impossible to avoid them completely, and they do have there place. I noticed you're quite fond of them and really they are 'weak' words. e.g. Think of all the other ways of saying 'nervously', the things that indicate nervousness. Use them, and you will create a much stronger picture in your readers' heads.

Now did I mention its a hot little story so far? Oh yes, so I did, but I know you won't mind me saying it again.

How big will you, or can you, take it? I can't wait to find out.

Please bear in mind I am not an expert, however, these are my thoughts. Not that I'll listen to me, since this is your story and you'll write whatever the hell you want. ;)

I wish you well with your future writing.

Have a great day,

Alex.

[Lord Douche]

Thanks for the feedback Alex :) That was sort of what I was looking for, although I want more on the last few chapters.
I am aware that I write a few sentences akwardly, and I try to pick it up when I read over it. Some slip through though. And I try to think of other ways to express nervousness, but it's hard.
I am also aware that I need to do a bit more character development as you suggested, get "deeper inside your characters heads". You should read more of it, and tell me how things are.
As for repeditive adverbs... I just need to find myself a good thesaurus :)

Again, thanks

[HarryBerg01]

I suggest www.dictionary.com. It has a Thesaurus option or access www.thesaurus.com.

[Lord Douche]

Some of us don't have permemant connections to the internet (such as me) so that's really not an option :(

[Aurelius]

Try www.Wordweb.co.uk (http://www.wordweb.co.uk) for a PC dictionary and thesaurus. There's a free version. I wouldn't be without mine.

Alternatively, your local second hand book shop could find you a Roget's Thesaurus for a couple of dollars I'm sure.

[Curtis]

Roget's for a few dollars, for sure. There'll be competing copies by multiple publishers, which should drive the price down. (Sorry, just saw the qualifier 'second-hand store'. That would be much cheaper.)

I'm not entirely certain expanding your vocabulary was what Alex had in mind, though. My impression was that he was advocating using your current vocabulary differently (if this is a misimpression, please correct me, Alex).

My old creative writing instructor used to say, "Don't tell; show." Although he never expressed an aversion to adverbs, 'showing' does tend to reduce their usage. To give you one example: "A week later, Kate found herself fidgeting from foot to foot in her doctor's office, wondering how much her hospital gown was revealing." Okay, that sentence had problems of its own, adverb or no adverb, and may not at all convey what you intended in the scene, but it did remove one adverb (at a cost of doubling the sentence length!).

[Lord Douche]

You had a Creative Writing Instructor? [envy] Having only finished school last year, I spent the time doing analytical and persuasive writing, since that was the entire curriculum of English. There WAS no Creative Writing! IMHO, I think I'm doing pretty well considering the last creative writing I did was really in Year 7-8.
And I like that sentence :) I'll try to take this onboard, although if I spent that much on every sentence, I wouldn't get anything done in the five-six pages I write per chapter (can anyone say Wheel of Time?)
I won't go and re-write the first 8 chapters I've released, but I will go over 10 and change a few things :) I'm tempted to release 9 tonight; just read over it and got myself into quite a state.

Any feedback on the last few chapters?! Or is it too long, and almost no-one actually reads the entire thing? :confused:

[Curtis]

Don't want to take up more of your time, but finding a true creative writing program was hard. I did a computer search (DARPANet, back in the early 1980's) and only found eight south of the Mason/Dixon Line. When I took a two week tour to visit them, four had closed their doors and three were really mislabled journalism courses!

The professor I had was really good (though I didn't realize it until a couple of years later) and very eccentric. I wish I had been in a better frame of mind while I was taking his classes. I took four of the six he offered. The best writer (student) in the curriculum was Jimmy Buffet's mother, Peets, who refused to follow the guidelines and only wrote memoirs (it was supposed to be fiction writing).

I'll check out Julie, but I base my reading decisions on story codes, so I can't promise anything. Good luck!

[Escritor]

Originally posted by Lord Douche
As for repeditive adverbs... I just need to find myself a good thesaurus :)

You could use the one that comes with MS Word.

Regards

[Fox]

and concur with Alex Bragi ...

That being said, there are many ways of improving writing skills. Go to a local bookstore and search for books about "how to write". Ursula K. LeGuin has an excellent book about crafting a story, and she is just one of many.

Buy a REAL thesaurus, and a very good dictionary. Not a little pocket one, spend the big bucks and get a REAL dictionary. It will last you a lifetime.

Read. Read, read, read.
Then read some more.
And when you read, pay close attention to the author's style, point of view, and wordmanship.

Take the time to develop your character, get into his/her head and think they way your character does.

Take a creative writing course ... local university or college, public library or bookstore can help you find one.

Then, when all else has been put in place, sit down at your keyboard and get to work. Knowing that most of what you write is going to need re-writing.

[Lord Douche]

Chapter 9 is up, and from the review and the e-mail I've received, it's been a hit. I've done a lot of planning for the storyline of Julie, and now that I've worked out some things, I can continue working on Chapter 11.

@ Aurelis, that WordWeb program has been most helpful :D Thanks for the link. I don't know how I lived without it.

I've been reading through the Tawny Man series, and noted a few things about the writing in it. The author uses a lot of short sentences, rather than putting in a comma and wording it differently. Microsoft Word would have a fit with all the "fragment - consider revising" grammar errors :) It doesn't interfere with the storytelling however, and I'm quite enjoying the book.

[Aurelius]

LD,

You'll be pleased to learn that 'fragment' sentences have a name. It's called 'ellipsis', and refers to deliberate grammatically incomplete sentences. Very effective in fiction. You're right though; MS Word often highlights them. As it should!

'Ellipses' also include sentences that include three dots like this one... a useful technique for providing a little breathing space.

[Faibhar]

Aurelius quite correctly mentions the use of 'ellipsis'. For too long they were just called "three dots". Now it helps to know the reasons behind those "..."

[boccaccio2000g]

Originally posted by Aurelius
LD,

You'll be pleased to learn that 'fragment' sentences have a name. It's called 'ellipsis', and refers to deliberate grammatically incomplete sentences. Very effective in fiction. You're right though; MS Word often highlights them. As it should!

'Ellipses' also include sentences that include three dots like this one... a useful technique for providing a little breathing space.
==============
What Aurelius says is quite correct.

But I think it's important to add that inexperienced writers should not throw confetti into the air to celebrate the demise of the traditional rules of grammar and syntax. Dialogue (which is a special case) aside, I think the times when it is both correct and necessary to abandon good sentence structure are few and far between.

Learn the rules first -- the exceptions can wait. And, as Fox so wisely said, read and read and read. Try to read English authors and American authors. Try to read authors from each of the last three centuries, at least, to see how English and American fiction and literary style have evolved. Above all, notice how good writers appeal to your senses -- how they describe a sunlit sky, a smoky battleground, the scent of a moonlit garden, the dampness of a London fog, the whisper of a silk stocking, or the bustle of a busy urban street. All five senses have their place in erotica -- use them well.

Our infinitely diverse language has a glorious past, and yet is as modern as tomorrow's newspaper.

Never forget that for many readers, the skillful use of words is the foreplay that will heighten the appreciation of whatever erotic adventures you have chosen to portray.

Boccaccio

[Lord Douche]

I'm not planning to try my hand at a different style of writing. And I was not throwing confetti into the air! I thought it was an interesting style, nothing more.

Not to disparage everyone's wonderful advice, but I was looking more for some opinions on my story rather than ideas on how to improve my writing skills.
Thanks to Fox and Alex for their replies :)

[boccaccio2000g]

Originally posted by Lord Douche
I'm not planning to try my hand at a different style of writing. And I was not throwing confetti into the air! I thought it was an interesting style, nothing more.

Not to disparage everyone's wonderful advice, but I was looking more for some opinions on my story rather than ideas on how to improve my writing skills.
Thanks to Fox and Alex for their replies :)
========

I'm sorry. I was speaking in very general terms in reply to Fox's comments about reading and Aurelius' comment about sentence fragments. My remarks and suggestions were not meant as a criticism of your writing.

Sorry if I hijacked the thread.

Boccaccio

[Lord Douche]

Originally posted by boccaccio2000g
[BI'm sorry. I was speaking in very general terms in reply to Fox's comments about reading and Aurelius' comment about sentence fragments. My remarks and suggestions were not meant as a criticism of your writing.[/B]
No offence taken, and I think the thread was already pretty off-topic :)