Harder than I thought

[ChurchofVirus]

Hopefully as you read this you recall my current status as a dom/master. Quick refresher, new and inexperianced yet tried my damnest to be the best I can be. Anyways here's a situation that happened to me the other day. Basically, I'd like input and advice. Ignore the fact that we all have preferences of what we like and what we don't, but me and my gf(sub/slave) are up for everything. She's a hella more experianced with BDSM, and as a dom and sub. She's a switch but prefers to sub.

Anyways, we began messing around. Started of with the hard and heavy kissing like to pent up nymphos who'd gone without for too long. Soon following she began to tease me a bit more, kissing, groping and the such. She began to suck me off then put my cock back in my pants. Me about to say something to tell her to tell her to get back to sucking and she climbs on my lap and begins to grind on me. I definatly enjoy foreplay, teasing is fun, but now I'm fucking horny and want to fuck. So I grab her firmly by the back of the hair and tell her she's gonna ride me, and to stand up and take her pants off.

She returns with a stern 'No.' Me a bit thrown off by it at first but then getting back into my role I barked at her louded, used a little more humiliation. She again said no and told me she was going to tease me. So me with my 'Oh yeah?' attitude I again attempted take control and she said no, now she begins to get up and act as if she's done. I stand quickly and tell her that's she's being a naughtly slut and to bend over. (insinuating a spanking). Again I get a no and tried of telling her I grab her and try to make her do it forcefully.

She's a firecracker I promise and could put up a good fight. After a few minutes of us wrestling I think she notices my frustration and I think she gives in. So I bend her over and tell her why she's being punished and give her 5 solid wacks on the ass. I then bark at her and tell her to stand up and drop her pants. Again she says no. We wrestle around a bit more, I try to remain demanding and begin to induce more pain but nothing works.

Don't get me wrong, wrestling around with her can be fun, but she's pretty much taken all my power away and I cannot do anything about it at this point.

Me frustrated because I'm not able to take control, and she knows I'm inexperianced, and she is very much so and does use it against me at times. I think it's a way she tests me, she doesn't do it all the time but ever here and there. She tells me if I really wanted her to fuck me that I'd have done it already, and that's no matter what she's always in charge. Not knowing what else to do, I tell her she's cut off. (for the day) She in turns tell me I'm punishing myself. I then explain that I don't get what I want, because she won't listen, so neither of us get what we want. She begins begging me to sit next to her and kiss her and what not (for when I do she'll grope me and be all super sexy on me to try to get me to give in). I hold my own and soon I tell her it's time for us to make dinner.

I know my biggest flaw here was not being forceful enough, verbally and even physically, but especially verbally. It's hard, as I don't really know what to say, and I'm definatly not a loud, forceful guy. I'm a real chilled dude. Anyways, I could really use some tips, like what could have been said or done. What would you have said or done? I figure dissecting situations is a good way for me to learn, and her and I are doing the same, but I could use some addition support in my learning.

What are some good tips for being commanding? I mean that may sound silly but I figured why not. I have a hard time conducting myself due to my inexperiance. Everyone is too damned vague and general about a dom's conduct, which can make it difficult to learn when I'm not a dom by nature, I definatly want control, but wouldn't say I'm a dominant personality, nor at the same time am I submissive.

Anyways, I cannot wait to hear your feedback!

[lily27]

I know you posted this in the Master thread, but here are my thoughts from the subbie perspective.

First of all....which is generally my advice for everything.....you need to sit down and talk to her. Tell her how it makes you feel. Let her know that you need her to be more supportive as you learn.

From your description it sounds like one of two things are happening. Either she isn't comfortable in her submission yet (or at all), or she is trying to test you. The only way to figure out which is to talk to her. For me, I tend to be rather fiesty as well (*pauses for gasps of surprise*) and I need a strong Dom to keep me in check. And I am guilty of pushing the line from time to time just to make sure it is still there.

However, if you two are committed to each other, and to making this work, you need to talk to her and tell her you need her on side with you.

The reason why "Dom conduct" is vague is because it is different for everyone. Unfortunately, there is no instruction manual, and everyone has to find their own way. And how she reacts is going to be different too. For me, if someone yells at me, I want to yell back. But quiet scolding puts me into place really fast. But that's just me.

Anyone who tells you "this is the right way to Dom" or "you have to do x, y, and z to be in real BDSM" is either a poser, or an idiot. Or both.

However you decide to go about things, next to communication the most important thing is consistancy. Stick to your guns. Don't let her talk you out of a punishment. It won't do you or her any favours. Following through will help you build confidence, and will teach her that you mean business.

She may have been correct in pointing out that punishing her by not playing punished you as well. But you can always point out to her that her behaviour is causing that situation.....as a sub, knowing i have disappointed Him is just about the worst punishment there is.

Once I wasn't allowed to play because I had forgotten to purchase an item He wanted to use. When I whined I was told "well, if I have to be disappointed, you can be too." And you better believe that I was. Disappointed in myself for disappointing him. It definitely taught me a valuable lesson.

This has become a good deal more rambling than I had planned, but I hope you find at least some of it helpful.

-lily

[fantassy]

It would seem to me that because she has been a Domme, she is looking for you to be a Dom at least as strong, if not more strong, than she is herself, Clearly just giving her a command is not not enough to make her subbie to you. She appears to need someone to take control, and that will involve your physically doing so. Telling her to bend over with an implication that you will give her a spanking is not enough to prove that you are an equal Dom to her. I would suggest that you would need to actually grab her and forcefully (not playfully) place her over your knee and give her that spanking. Remembering this is a consensual relationship, and assuming that you do have a defined D/S relationship and safeword, this sort of action could not be considered non-consensual. If she behaves as you describe and truly is subbie, she wants more than commands, she wants action.

fantassy

[phantasy_seeker]

IMO, besides the fact that every submissive is different, the reason why there isn't any manual on Dom conduct is that Doms are a law unto themselves. They behave towards their submissive however they damn well want to behave, within the boundaries of consent of course. If I were to find out that my Dom was simply acting how he thought he should or how he thought I want him to, I would be devastated.

Which brings me to your question: How to sound commanding? How to deal with a sub who needs to test her limits and your power? The most important issue here, I believe, is your mindset. You need to WANT to put her back in her place, to teach her that it is not her place to test you in that manner. Once you can overcome that and feel completely in charge, I believe the rest will follow. Simply following advice like 'you must have a stern voice and look her straight in the eyes' just won't cut it if it doesn't FEEL natural to you, regardless of what your opinion of your type of dominance is.

[ChurchofVirus]

One misconception I see here is I'm not asking how I should act, because yeah I'm gonna do what I want to do. Perhaps my wording doesn't make sense. A lot of it does have to do with my mindset I'll admit, but that'll change over time and with more experiance. I have a dom buried within me, it's digging it out which will be a challenge.

I ask for examples because I don't really have the imagination of actions an so forth. Often times I find when I hear about someone a couple might do I say to myself 'People do that!?' then try it out myself. I ask for a dissection of my situation in order to help me learn and improve. I'm not going to do what anyone says to do, but I'll take it to heart and use the knowledge to improve myself. The vagueness doesn't help for nothing, but I'll take what I can get I suppose.

[hisannabelle]

i completely understand what you mean when you say you'll use the knowledge to improve, but you're not looking for direct advice, necessarily.

as i haven't been in this situation, i really don't have any examples or direct advice to give. i just wanted to drop in and voice my concerns because...and this is just -my- view of things, so don't take this too much to heart...but it seems to me as though this is just bratty behavior - as though she wants someone to "break" her of her stubbornness. it's possible to be fiesty and be a submissive, but this seems more like...pushing things too far to me. i just know that many dominants i've met would not accept this kind of behavior because they feel that if the submissive does not at least act as though they -want- to submit or are -trying- to submit, even if they may have problems in the process, their time is being wasted. then again, a lot of people find this kind of play fun, and see the fun in the "breaking" of stubbornness and will.

i guess i'm just trying to say that maybe it shouldn't -be- this hard. i think the biggest thing is to sit down and talk to her and ask -why- she's acting like this, and what she wants to get out of it. this is not all your responsibility - it goes both ways. she needs to communicate her feelings as well. i don't think your flaw is that you're not forceful - it seems like doing anything but ignoring her behavior would just be giving in to what is a very selfish cry for negative attention.

good luck!

[ChurchofVirus]

Ah, some very useful light on the situation. Thanks for the response! Keep them coming!

As for talking to her we really havn't had the chance to discuss it yet, I definatly plan on it though once we get the time to.

[Daes]

I agree with hisannabelle 100%. You cannot force someone to do something if they wont at least try, and it honestly (dont take this offensively either, just my pov), attempting to force her into submission seems like a power struggle to me, like you both are competing for it symbolically. Personally I'd stop that and give her an ultimatum if she said no.

I'd say 'Im not hearing a yes, so im out the door."

Sticking to your words (even if you dont like it yourself) is a must. If she really Wants to have you dominate her, she needs to ask for it and submit Willingly. It will not work with her challenging and goofing off and playing games. I think a talk is in order to really discuss what she wants with none of this "you have to force me to submit". It doesnt work that way. Even as a Domme, she should know it doesnt work that way, and as a sub she needs to learn its a two way street. You can only go so far when she is not granting you all the power she claims she want you to have.

A Dom is nothing without the power the sub gives Him.

[phantasy_seeker]

Ah, my apologies for misunderstanding your post, then. :)

The way your sub acts sounds a lot like how I acted in the beginning of my D/s relationship, although she does sound a bit more feisty *g*. This is because I'm one of those who crave being 'forced' into submission. I needed to be put into a situation where I had 'no choice' but to submit, before I could truly submit. Fortunately, my Dom enjoyed gradually 'forcing' me into submission as well, so that worked out for both of you. My question before anything else is: do you enjoy such play? If you do, then read on. Otherwise, definitely sit down and talk to her.

As for the examples, I'm not really sure if mine would be of any help, as my relationship is online at the moment. But anyway, what my Dom does is clamp down really hard if I start rebelling -- disobey him directly even once, and face dire consequences right away. Consequences that I really would dislike, such as no playtime (which was what you did, and a brilliant idea IMO). And any protests/complaints I make about the punishment would be rewarded with additional punishment.

That sounded awfully vague, but I hope it helps. :P

[ChurchofVirus]

Now were cooking with fire! It does indeed help. Thanks for the input, keep it coming!

I enjoy wrestling around with her, but when I want to move on and say so, she usually does. Here and there she starts as mentioned, a power struggle, and when I finally get frustrated and know I can't win, I cut her off as it were.

[Hime]

As a very high-strung little subbie, I find nothing sexier or more intimidating than a dom who doesn't need to raise his voice or seem angry. In fact, when my man is being especially demanding, he'll just whisper in my ear... *shiver*... So being a "chill dude" strikes me as an asset. Just keep that cool and remember that you're in charge for a reason, eh?

[TomOfSweden]

It sounds like you're trying too hard. Power is a two way deal. It has to be given as much as taken. She want's to be your slave. Let her work for it. It doesn't sound like you're enjoying this like you should. Obviously you're doing it wrong so you need to change your strategy. I think it's better if you sit down and think through what you want and what you take pleasure in, and train her to do that for you. I'm certain she'd enjoy that if she's as submissive as you say. If she doesn't...well.... I guess the two of you might take up knitting or something else less D/s.

Priority number one is to tell her the same thing as you wrote here. Tell her you have this problem. She won't think less of you for showing yourself weak. That's part of being human, and I'm sure she'll understand. Trying to live up to an image you're not, (ie flawless Master) will never work for anybody.

[ObeyMe]

Honestly, it seems shes either lying to you or herself....she needs to decide what she is.

Either shes your sub or not, sounds as tho she doesnt consider you her superior. Is this what you want? Do you exude the needed confidence to make her feel your Dominance? Are you her Dominant.....all legit questions, only you can answer.

It seems you are not physically capable of kicking her ass, or at the least dont desire to. Understandable.......again I ask, do you want to HAVE to do that to get her to submit? If so, get your ass in the gym so you can.

Personally, I believe a sub/slave should submit voluntarily, not need beat into it. Although, if the Couple/Group decides thats best for them, then enjoy. I just dont read that from you.

Short of physical Dominance, mental Dominance is all We have, therefore, I revert back to her wanting to submit.......if shes not willing, how can you make her.....this is not to say, there are no challenges, or 'bratty' moments.....not at all.....

I see the real question here as: What type of relationship do you want? One of constant turmoil, fighting, and physical confrontation? Or one where you are the Dom, shes the sub, and you 2 grow together?

Just My 25 cents....