A Misstress wants to know your answers to this question.

[janine80]

I Have been with my sub for over 2 years now but in the past year i have noticed he has been pushing his submissiveness to the side.Now it is gradually getting worse. Everytime i aproch him knowing i want to kick his ass and give him some spanking he tells me either his sick or something needs to be done and his not in the mood...(NOT IN THE MOOD)...He say's it's stress and once he has too many things going on he doesn't feel to submit.(just to cuddle)....
Im ok with that only i do have some needs that are required and it's getting to a point where im slowly getting fustrated.We have talked about it and he say's it will come back it just happens sometimes..
My question is ...
Is it possible that stress and whatever else could make him feel unsubmissive,or do you think there could be something else playing apart of this?
Does this really happen sometimes and will it come back ?? :confused:

[phantasy_seeker]

Of course it really happens, to me that is. How long has this been going on, if I may ask? If it's been a really long time, say months, then perhaps it's cause for worry. But I'm sure every subbie has their week, or even a few of em. Some doms do too, I believe. And if he truly is a subbie at heart, rest assured that it will come back, if you allow it to do so naturally.

[Bliss]

I feel this way sometimes, but if the feeling continues for a long time or happens often....for me...it means that there is something else going on. Usually, if I start saying no or refusing things I know will give my Dominant pleasure, that means something is not working in the relationship and my feelings of submission to that person are falling away.

If all else is well within the relationship and I am just going through some things, I generally prefer a Dominant to be thoughtfully strict with me. If I am really pleading for mercy, I'd rather be given an alternative activity or be given a time frame in which something has to happen. Sometimes, I might be going through a bad day (or days) and I like that to be taken into consideration without a Dominant letting me run the show. So, for instance, I might be given the night off with the stipulation that the Dominant's request is honored by a certain time. Of course, there could be times in life when someone is going through something really hard or awful and needs to be let off from any demands for a little bit.

I hope things get better with your sub. I don't know what the issues are. Do you think depression is a possibility?

[dynamicbuttler]

I don't know, maybe this is just me but when I'm stressed out I only wanna get the shit beat outta me worse... When I'm freaking out I want to be bloodied up more than ever... of course... poor me hasn't ever been in a dom/sub relationship yet cause I haven't met that kind of girl, but i do know when I want to submit (All the time) and when I really really want to submit (When I'm stressed out)... I don't know... everyone's different, but if I were stressed out like him I probably would want to worship my mistress just as much or more. Talk to him- maybe it is what he says it is... maybe it's worse.
Good luck.

[Mishka]

If R/l stresses me out I want him to take charge.

We step outside our roles and into the friends we have always been when one of us is not feeling well (for nurturing), or a disagreement/miscommunication or misunderstanding between us, where we need to be equals to hash it out. Immediately followed by returning to our roles.

Perhaps it's not just stress. Maybe that's not the best way to describe what he's going through. He may be depressed or worried. Needing nurturing, instead of dominance.

[pixie_dust]

So, lets say it is truly "stress". What is the cause? Have you discussed this with him? When I am feeling stressed out, my Dom senses that something is wrong right away and makes me sit down and talk it over with him.

Then, if I want or need suggestions on how to deal with them, he offers his thoughts or ideas (when he can). Other times, it is just helpful to be able to vent. After talking with him, I am usually able to get my mind off of the cause and focus my attention on other things.

[butterflySlave4u]

When I feel emotional stress, as a sub, I feel the need to escape the situation....my mind is confused, I'm not able to concentrate...if my Online Master is not around, the stress I feel, really does need to be physically released... I can usually apply nipple clamps (behind my piercings) and a clit clamp....I lay down, and lose myself in the pain, resisting the urge to cum, sometimes for hours at a time...feeling the pain centers me...it actually clears my mind....and after I've cum, I can relax....usually exhausted....after resting, I can organize my thoughts, and a problem that held weight before, is easily solved....Perhaps, Misstress, you need to take matters into your own hands....helping your sub reduce his stress, may bring him back to you.... :) Karen

[george1948a]

since i am new here, the only way possible for me to participate and be useful is to be honest. As a 58 year old submissive masochist that has never had a lasting relationship with a Domme, since for about ever 1 true Domme thier are about 1000 subs male and female. It is my opinion You should remind him of this fact and that if You did not have sincere feelings for him you would not have tolerated this much. He needs to make up his mind what he wants in this life, if he walks out of a sincere relationship with a Domme he trusts and respests due to the fact he is not answering the call to duty, he is a fool. LTR are very hard to find they should be honored and relished by both parties, especially the sub.

[KoTe]

Though I`m a subbie, I though I`d share my opinion. If you have strong feelings about your sub (you know, love and that kind of stuff) I`m sure you can deal with the frustration until he feels better. If BDSM is a priority to you, if I were you, I would kick him out of my life.

[Msub44f]

I think your sub has lost intrest in the sub lifestyle and is looking for a way out and its time for both of you to find people to share your ways of life, but i am no expert just a sub.

[TeddyBearGaySlave]

I ALWAYS feel like that after an orgasm. After that I think "nah, no sub thing for 20 minutes now, please."
Have you ever talked about chastity/cum control? Just try it, I become even sluttierer when horny for more than one hour, hehe.
If he doesnt want that it might be time to move on to new borders for both of you. At first that seems to be sad, but you have to realize that human beings are always changing, no one will be the same after 2 years of live. Many just TRY that, with already shows the change.

English in the morning is hard stuff, sorry. Hope I formulated understandably.
*hugs*

[Arria]

I´d like to add my 2 cents here. Firstly: Yes, it is possible that the wish to play goes away during stressful times.

As for me, the more stress I experience (outside the relationship), the more desperate I get for play. It centers me, relaxes me, I can let go of everything, and afterwards, I have my mind free to go about solving the problem or just have more endurance to stand through a difficult time. I am the sub, though.

With my husband (he is my Dom), it is the other way round - if he experiences severe stress, he does not have any will to play.

I found this applies to all couples I know - even if it is the other way round sometimes (the sub not willing to play during stress times, while the dom would like to).

So in my opinion this is nothing to worry about. I do not believe he is lying to you. It might well be he actually functions that way. In this case, I think forcing him into play would be a really bad idea and might do damage to your relationship.
As for the suggestion to kick him out of your life for being that way - I would be careful with that. Me and my friends are otherwise very happy in our relationships and would not kick a good partner into the rubbish bin just because he functions differently.
A bit patience is needed here. But usually - unless the problem/difficult phase lasts for more than half a year - the problem solves itself, and things are back to normal.

If you suspect, though, that he is avoiding playing with you for other reasons, it would be best if you asked him directly. I wish you good luck, anyway.

[Lord Hemloc]

I have some information here that may be of some help, I orginally read the info and add my experince and history to it, to serve my needs for training and mentoring Dominants and submissives in the lifestyle.
"Take what you need and Leave the Rest"

TRAINING VS ROMANCE


This idea suggests the somewhat radical
concept that what a submissive does actually
matters.
There is a fallacy at work, a double
standard. This somewhat confusing situation
comes from fear and insecurity. Conventional
wisdom suggests that the only proper and
acceptable place for disapproval is play in that
actual disapproval could cause such damaging
emotional consequences, that, like liquid
oxygen, it should never be handled by laymen.
Somehow, submissives have become such fragile
creatures that any hint of genuine disapproval
or displeasure is as dangerous as a
sledgehammer. Expectations are possibly lethal.
If there can be no disapproval, there can be
no evaluation. If I cannot evaluate the
performance of a trainee, than what she does
doesn’t actually matter. Pass or fail, good or
bad, she gets a pat on the head, praise and
attention. Which means that the praise is empty,
and therefore worthless as is any reward
garnered for said "performance". Which renders
both Trainer and trainee empty, worthless
playacting at best, bitterly compromised and
frustrated at worst.
As a trainee, a submissive, a slave would you
really want your efforts to mean nothing? Would
you want your Master’s praise and approval to
mean nothing? Would an empty compliment for a
half hearted job be enough? For most, the answer
seems to be "Yes." Not here. Not ever. But to
strive for praise which means something, a risk
has to be taken. The risk of failure. The
specter of failure looms so high and dark in the
minds and hearts of some applicants that they
shut their eyes and settle for mediocre
existence’s. No real authority, no real service,
no real achievement. A trainee has to
risk disapproval, disappointment, and shame…
because what she does matters.
Training vs. Romance
I know it sounds harsh and it was meant to.
But it’s an important idea to address up front.
Many people cannot understand submission
without love. That’s fine, Training is not for
everyone. Neither is the Army. But both the
Trainer and the Army have certain ideas in
common. Standards are not compromised by
affection. It is hard to express dissatisfaction
with someone with whom you are in love. The
temptation to compromise is a hard one to
resist. And when you love someone, you are
tempted to bend over backwards in order to keep
them, in order to get them not to leave. This
puts the power in their hands to some degree,
and creates the situation of a dominant losing
his authority in order to keep a submissive and
everything falls apart.
So we are looking back to Merit vs. Charity
again. Would a trainee rather be told she is
worthy of a collar because love happens to be
smiling on her and her Mistress? Or would she
rather know that she has it because she earned
it, and renews that privilege every day? Which
is worth more? Love is fickle. Respect is
earned.

[cariad]

The most memorable 'bad' moment in my journey into submission was when I rebelled against something he wished to do to me. He simply stepped away and invited me to let him know when I was ready to submit again. Painfully, he has never asked that particular thing of me again, which serves as a constant reminder. It made me realise just how valuable his dominance was to me, and how I would fight myself to never loose it.

cariad

[davidnhisgirl]

I know that when I get really upet or worried about mudane things i tend to pull away, only cause i want my dom to come to me and tell me everything will be ok. Maybe your sub wants more attention outside of pain. Not that you dont, but sometimes this is just a way to get more attention. But that might just be me.

[tessa]

But to
strive for praise which means something, a risk
has to be taken. The risk of failure. The
specter of failure looms so high and dark in the
minds and hearts of some applicants that they
shut their eyes and settle for mediocre
existence’s. No real authority, no real service,
no real achievement. A trainee has to
risk disapproval, disappointment, and shame…
because what she does matters.

And when you love someone, you are
tempted to bend over backwards in order to keep
them, in order to get them not to leave. This
puts the power in their (submissives') hands to some degree,
and creates the situation of a dominant losing
his authority in order to keep a submissive and
everything falls apart.

What these words say to me is that not taking the risk to fail leads to failure.

A very powerfully altering thought.

tessa :wave:

[Rhabbi]

Hemloc, I know these words are not yours, so I want to say that they strike me as being a bit off kilter.

Why is it impossible for a trainer to be in love with a submissive? I see no conflict here, if I truly love my sub I will let them know when they fall short in my eyes. Doing less than this does not just belittle them, it lessons me as a Dom and a man.

Love is an integral part of a D/s relationship, IMO. Without love all we have is play. I can play with anyone, but that does not mean I can dominate them. To be truly dominant I have to know the person, her limits and how hard I can push them. This is a relationship, not the Army. And the Army is even about relationship more than obedience.

You are right that a sub has to take a risk, but so does the Dom. If the risk is not mutual there is no relationship, there is only a game. It is just as easy for a sub to be disappointed in me as it is for me to be disappointed in them, and a failure to recognize this strikes me as the worst type of arrogance I could commit.

[cariad]

Hmmmm, interesting thoughts. I am sure that the man who trained me also loved me. I would venture to suggest that was why he did so, although it is not something we have ever discussed.

As I read these last few posts I am reminded of good parents who love their children enough to chastise and punish them. It is clearly easier, and in the short term more pleasant to ignore unacceptable behaviour, and I am sure we have all seen examples of that. But a good parent loves the child enough to hurt themselves by discipling. Sure a good Dom also has the same ability?

cariad

[moptop]

I am concerned that Janine hasn't come back to this thread (or at least hasn't posted). The thread has taken on a bit of a life of its own now - interesting in itself (one of the first things my beloved said to me when we were first talking about what we each wanted out of a relationship was 'I want you to take the risk. I want you to risk that it might not please me.' And it is quite scarey).

But - to stop myself getting equally side-tracked - I do hope Janine and her sub have sorted things out. There have been many, and totally contradictory, opinions given here. My own is - talk, talk - if the talk is getting no-where, then I would say the relationship is in trouble. It's not necessarily a BDSM specific thing, although it so happens that your sexuality is. It is possible that he wants you to impose yourself on him; and possibly in a different way than you have been (not just physically, for example; or not physically at all for a while, but to take control); it is possible that he really does just need you to be more loving and supportive. Being a sub can take its toll, sometimes, as can being a dom. I don't think this is an easy way of life for anyone.

I wish you both the best.

[thrall]

Hello Hemloc

The question is wither you love the person you respect, or fear them. I personally prefer a combination of both. I am a perfectionist, the idea of failure, in and of itself, is the worst punishment that can be given to me. Disappointing my Dom, disappointing myself,……. It makes me shudder even to think about it.

That being said, a D/s relationship with out it, without love, I believe is a hollow shadow of what it truly meant to be. Love and respect should go and in hand. That is what makes it complete and whole.

Discipline tinged with love, submission tinged with fear……

Training for training purposes is one thing, but a true relationship is another.

So the question becomes…, do you want a trained animal or a loving submissive??

Thrall

[margaret]

Hemloc, I have an honest question for you - would you prefer a submissive who submits out of fear of retribution or punishment or disapproval, or one who submits out of love and a desire to serve you and please you?

[Lord Hemloc]

Wether the words are mostly mine or not, I believe in them and I believe if you can all of you should read them again and open your mind...
margret by you asking that question means you missed the intent and spirit of the post.
I remain,
Lord Hemloc

[Guest 91108]

hrm...
Without Respect, Compassion, and Concern, yes ,.. even Love of the sub and those involved in the relationship.. It is doomed.
All these elements combine for shared higher levels of fullfilment which is why both the D and s of the situation are in it for......
just my small short thoughts.

[moptop]

Well, I did TRY to get the thread back on topic!!

Although, Hemlock's thoughts are relevant (although they do not offer direct and specific advice to the lady who asked the question).

I agree with at least parts of Hemlock's post. One may shudder at the thought of disapproval, failure, etc - but you also need genuine and true feedback. A sub does require training, and the dominant for that needs to be ready to tell them when they are failing.

I do not see that as incompatible with a loving relationship, however. In a D/s relationship, to submit - and be trained - is to love; to dominate - and train - is to love. Each person in that relationship (or more, if there be more) needs either to dominate or submit; therefore, not to provide that correctly and as fully as possibly, is not fulfilling ones partner.

I also understand and appreciate that it is perfectly possible to be trained by someone with whom one does not have a loving relationship. And I can see that in some ways this would be easier, clearer cut, if you like.

It is extremely difficult for anyone to learn - to dominate, or to submit - whilst also trying to maintain a 'normal' 24/7 loving relationship. Even for those who have much experience, it is not easy. Therefore, in order to learn ones 'trade' as it were, I can see the benefit of specifically undergoing training with someone who is experienced, but with whom one is not emotionally involved.

However - I would not view that relationship as true submission. Because to submit fully, I believe one has to give ones heart as well as one's mind and body.

Now, I have only read H's post once - and it is in the usual obscure vein and tortuous language that I have seen in his other posts. So - H - if I have misunderstood - well, I am an intelligent and educated woman, and one of my main skills is language - English and others. There are various people who have been having some trouble understanding the posts you've made - perhaps you could try to re-write them for us in more day-to-day, clear language? I know you want to communicate with us - it would help us a bit, it would help you a bit.

Thanks.

[Beswitchingly Positive]

While not technically a submissive, I cannot help but speak up.

A lack of communication, or a decline in communication, in an intimate relationship (bdsm or other) indicates some sort of rift. It can be a rift within oneself, or a rift between the lovers.

In my small experience, whenever I stopped willingly obeying a lover's requests, it meant my interest in the person was waning. Then again, I have not felt conflicted about my sexual tendencies. My choices in lovers yes; my orientation, no.

If the sub in question (getting back to the beginning) is not certain about his commitment to the "lifestyle", not certain he is comfortable with his role, it could come out as not feeling like submitting. You would think after two years, he would know, but who can guess? He may just need some time off to sort it out. If it is really his nature and need to submit, he would soon return to doing so. If the relationship itself is heathy and full, he should be able to get back in line, better and more committed than before.

Reminds me of some advice from a wise friend, very experienced Dom, he told me if you want to test and see if a lover is really submissive, stop dominating. Refuse to. As soon as he stops submitting. No spanky spanky, no mind fuck, no twist and tie, not mean but just not bdsm. If he is a sub at heart, he will be frustrated by this, and you will know if it's possible to dominate. If he prefers the nilla treatment, no frustration, he is not really very submissive. This seems like it could be true for some people.

Now, as far as 'training' goes, this sort of set up, a relationship based on training, seems to be a different sort of submission than a real love submission. I say this because I have recently experienced the difference.

The difference (for me) is this- it is now most important for me, for my happiness, to do as he asks, to do it well, and without much resistance (he likes a little resistance). I have not been trained because I could never submit without a feeling of love. I have tried. It left me feeling like there was something missing, didn't do it for me.

Why do I feel so submissively commited to this man? Because I am in love with him, and he is satisfying my sexual needs. Before I admitted to myself that I was in love, before I let myself start this delicious free fall, I could not manage to follow his wishes with the accuracy and feeling of submission I am currently experiencing.

He is very patient.

I am also in love with a girl, we have been friends for a couple of years, and she has a deep need to be dominated (by me, it seems), when with her, I am definately dominant. I also feel a great satisfaction when she gets what she needs from me. This has not become sexual, but it is exhibiting signs of heading that way. I can only think of continuing to see where this might go because He approves.

Perhaps some folks can be satisfyed with a more clinical approach to sex, personally, I cannot do this. It is much more intense, captivating and exciting if there is the chemistry and depth and commitment of love. The feeling is different than a physical reaction to sex. I honestly don't see how a sincere training could occur without love, if not at the beginning, at the completion.

I agree with the well spoken moptop, that submission is not complete without the heart.

As long as the hearts are ensnared, the rest will work itself out. Even if it means stopping the intimate part of the relationship. If a person stop being into it, well, real, mature love says fine, your not into it, I love you anyway. Go find your happiness. Otherwise, it seems dominance might become bullying.

I am such a hopeful romantic.

I also agree with moptop's 'talk,talk' policy, but when one shuts off emotionally from a lover, it is hard to keep a good communication going. If I am not comfortable emotionally with a lover, I cannot explain what is going on inside me. If I am conflicted inside, and not walled off emotionally, it could take a bit of prodding, but love and good feelings of friendship would work to a Dom's advantage to find out what is going on. It might have nothing to do with sex.

Keep in mind, I tend not to complain. I remove myself from bad situations if I can, I don't keep brooding over it.

This is all my opinion, I would expect everyone to think for themselves and not take this as a criticism or personal attack on anyone's lifestyle choices, nor do I encourage everyone to try it my way. Every person has their path; mine is certainly not for everyone.

BP

[Euryleia]

Beswitchingly Positive wrote:
Reminds me of some advice from a wise friend, very experienced Dom, he told me if you want to test and see if a lover is really submissive, stop dominating. Refuse to. As soon as he stops submitting. No spanky spanky, no mind fuck, no twist and tie, not mean but just not bdsm. If he is a sub at heart, he will be frustrated by this, and you will know if it's possible to dominate. If he prefers the nilla treatment, no frustration, he is not really very submissive. This seems like it could be true for some people.

Well put. Find out if the sub is still in sub space. If not, eliminate the frustration by accepting the change in relationship or kick 'em to the curb.

[Beswitchingly Positive]

Beswitchingly Positive wrote:

Well put. Find out if the sub is still in sub space. If not, eliminate the frustration by accepting the change in relationship or kick 'em to the curb.

Thanks, however, this is my paraphrase of H Dean's advice. I humbly acknowlege him as a friend and teacher.

[melissa]

forgive me, my Superiors for wishing to offer my opinion, but I share the same view as another submissive who posted.

I know that when I am stressed (from work etc) I love nothing more than a severe beating, it completely relaxes the mind.

From my own experience, I would imagine that if a submissive said those things to a Domme, she would simply say "let me know when you want to submit to me again" and otherwise IGNORE HIM.

[slaveneedledick]

All i have to say is stress does effect everyone differently. Stress may cause people not be submissive until the stress is controlled. Heck stress could be one of the biggest dominants out there.

[Harsh Master]

you need to sit down and talk about your needs with him then have him express his. Tell him he can speak freely then listen and see if your doing something wrong or he is.Just be patient and try this.

[seriouslynosn]

Is it possible that stress and whatever else could make him feel unsubmissive,or do you think there could be something else playing apart of this?
Does this really happen sometimes and will it come back ?? :confused:

Note: I haven't read the other comments, so I could just be repeating another sub's thoughts. Sorry!

I think he's rethinking his position as submissive. Maybe he wants a change in the power situation.

[White Rabbit]

I'm just starting out in the lifestyle, but I'm studying stress in psychology, and its effects are varied and wide reaching. People do experience it in different ways, and it might be that janine's sub is just suffering from prolonged stress.

Yes, on the other hand he may be thinking differently about his sexual desires. People change, maybe his submissive nature was just in reaction to something that has now left. It would be interesting to get more information about the relationship, ie. How long total? How long has he been misbehaving? etc.

[MISTRESS H]

Stress is a man killer and it can happen any time and with no notice. It is not that your slave shying (for lack of a better word) away, but know that he should not bring his stress and give it to you. Be patient with him, as just like PMS, Stress is inevitable.

[naughtylittleme]

There are times when I too struggle with this. When I am feeling particularly crappy under the weather, stressed I have less of a desire to submit. One such instance happened just last night. I was exhausted the long weekend screwed with me and I am trying to get used to being up at the god awful butt crack of dawn again. I had little to no desire to play. However, hubby had other ideas. It is in my nature to submit to him and I did. However since I was not in that sub mind frame I was admitedly being selfish and only caring about myself the session was HORRIBLE. I did try to get into my normal sub mindframe but I just couldn't get it done. I had NO pain tollerance whatsoever I began crying as soon as I had nipple clamps placed on, the restraints were to tight and so on and so forth. In my defense one hand was too tightly restrained but he did eventually get around to fixing this. Overall the experience was Ho hum for both of us. Hubby while satisfied physically was obviously let down by my lack of total submission and I walked away feeling like total shit about myself because I was unable to fully submit. I appologized about a million times before we went to bed.

My moral is this sometimes people need a little time. It may be only a day it may be a week, depending on the person it may be more. I think it is very important for a Dom/me to have patience with his/her sub. Just because I have an "off" night doesn't mean that I am any less willing or any less eager to serve my husband. It is just an "off" night. I am sure everyone will agree too that we certainly aren't looking for Ho hum experiences if that were the case we would all be "vanilla". I myself am looking for fireworks and I tend to be way more eager to play and serve when I have been given time to soothe and solve my own personal inner conflicts sometimes with and sometimes without the help and or guidance of my Dom.

[submissivemark]

As it so happens, I've been going through the same changes in losing my submission since my father passed away a little over a year ago. My Wife & I had let things slide, to the point where She even asked me if I wanted to continue to be submissive. I did, but wasn't able to focus the way I should have been doing.

Well the 1st anniversary of my dad's death was this past Monday. After I got through that day it was like a huge weight had been lifted off of me. Yesterday my Wife & I had a very long talk, (at my instigation). I told Her I wanted to get back to where we had been & grow from there. I apologized for not being the submissive husband that She deserved & that I had once been. I also asked Her to punish me this weekend, if She wished to, for my failures the past year. I told Her that I felt I needed to be punished, not just to atone for my failings, but to help me regain the proper focus. She has also become more exacting & strict in managing me, & in providing the proper structure that I need to thrive in as her loving submissive.

Last year was very bad for both of us as to deaths in the family. besides my dad, She lost Her favorite aunt & Her grandmother last year, so we kind of got into a funk & things began to slide. It happens, though not usually as long as it did for us. The keys are communication, understanding, & patience on both the D/M & the sub's parts to right a wayward D/s relationship.

:cool: