Misconceptions/Stereotypes

[woodsman'sgame]

Ok, I have been wanting to say something about this for some time. Today is my day to gripe so let me get it off my chest.
Hispanics/Latinos are not a particular race. They are not all dark haired, dark skinned. They don't all speak with accents, and they don't all eat tacos.

Many, many are causcasian of European descent. They can be blond and blue-eyed (though admittedly not very common).
My sister is blond; she has been all her life.
I have green eyes, of the 8 people in my family only 2 have brown eyes, the rest are green. My ancestors came from Spain, a European country. I am as caucasian as any European claims to be.

Hispanics can also be black, Indian, Asian or any mixture of these "races" (another very confused term full of misconceptions, but we won't get into that one here). What makes them Hispanics/Latinos is the language that they share, Spanish.

Why am I saying all this? Because I have just finished reading another story (I have read so many that have this fault!) where the Latino characters are somewhat stereotyped, but on top of that this story stated that a female Latino in this story "must have had some occidental blood" because she was blond!
ARGHHH!

Oh, by the way, I don't mean to rag on any particular author. There have been many stories that have been guilty of stereotyping. This particular author wrote an excellent story, and this was the only thing that bothered me. And at least he/she recognized that a Hispanic could be blond.

OK, getting off my soapbox and back on my knees.

[BDSM_Tourguide]

Anyone needing any proof that Hispanic men and women are as racially diverse as Caucasians need look no further than Brazil.

Brazilian men and women can range in a genetic spectrum from the quadroon-like, almost negro skin and dark hair and eyes to the nordic-looking fair skin, blonde hair and blue eyes.

The same thing can be said for the Irish, too. They don't all have red hair and green eyes. We like to think they do, because, for some reason, we have this whole red hair fantasy. ;) Truth be told, the irish have a diverse genetic population as well. True, you don't see any irish with hispanic or black features, but you do see dark haired, dark eyed irish as well ass blonde haired, blue eyed ones.

Racial diversity means very little these days. So called "african americans" are not african. Most of them have never been to Africa, most never will. To say someone is hispanic or irish or german is simply to denote that their roots came from Spain or Ireland or Germany. Not the individual, but the ancestry.

And to be quite honest, aside from where our forefathers came from, what do any of us really have that differs from anyone else you could walk up to on the street and greet?

[e.e. norcod]

Now if you want Hispanics you got to go to Texas Pardner. There are more flavors of Hispanics than you can shake a stick at.

One of the most fascinating flavors are the old line Tex Mex. You will find them scattered along the Gulf Coast from the Valley up to Galveston. Most have been in Texas longer than any of the Anglos and way longer than the waves of Texans that have arrived since the Second World War. Very few are fluent in Spanish and what Spanish they know is Castilian. This is because they learned it in school and all the teachers know is the Castillian that they learned in school. You see Spanish was extinguished as a language for people of their class back in the 20's and 30's. Very few work with their hands and those who do are usually owners of small businesses (resturaunts, air-conditoning shops and particularly auto-repair). Most are managerial types. Almost all are light skinned and they arrived in two waves. One group consists of the original settlers who arrived in Upper Texas in the 1920 and fought in the Texas Revolution on the winning side. About one quarter of those killed at the Alamo had Hispanic surnames and almost a third of those on the winning side at San Jacinto had Hispanic surnames. The border remained rather porous in both directions throughout the next century but marriage in this particular social group was closely guarded against dilution by the poor (and darker skinned). But it was ok to marry an Anglo as long as the kids were raised Catholic. The next notable influx of people into this group occured during the Mexican Revolution of 1911-1919. During that time there was a significant migration into Texas of middle-class Mexicans fleeing the imposition of socialism in Mexico. Although they were able to bring very little of their material goods with them they were reasonably educated and had significant business talent. This group intermarried with the old originial settlers.

This group originated the Tex Mex style of cooking that is generally identified with Texas (and paradoxically Mexico) in the resturants they owned. Some of the members of this group became rather wealthy. Their sons go to St. Thomas and Strake in Houston, Dallas Jesuit, Fort Worth Nolan and Central Catholic in San Antonio. They tend to be clannish but once you are accepted by the community they are an awesome group to hang out with.

There are about four other Hispanic communities in Texas but those are stories for another day.

[e.e. norcod]

Sorry for the typo. The first wave arrived in the 1820's, not the 1920's. The second wave arrived in the 1920's.

[Alex Bragi]

Call me ignorant, but you know I've heard that word 'Hispanic' lots of times in American movies, but I guess I’ve never really understood before what it truly meant.

A lot of people enjoy reading about interracial sexual relationships, and since one of the most perceived difference between most races, rightlly or wrongly, is colour, I suppose that’s what most authors tend fall back on.

[woodsman'sgame]

Hispanic is actually an incorrect term. It is an adjective, not a noun, and refers to anything from the peninsula of Hispania, which includes Portugal and the Basques and Catalans and Gallegos that don't speak Spanish.

The term came into use in the US census (1920 I think). The US government was wanting to figure out a way to get numbers on Spanish speakers in the US, who of course checked any racial column that fit their particular race.
Someone came up with the term Hispanic and listed it under "race".
So the Hispanics (once they were told what it meant) promptly checked off Hispanic and white, Hispanic and Indian, Hispanic and black. LOL It messed up the census big time.

The problem is we are now stuck with the term, as erroneous as it may be, so we need to at least be aware of the varieties of people it encompasses.

e.e. norcod - Thanks for the very imformative post on the Spanish speakers and descendants of Spaniards who live in the Southwest.

[GaryWilcox]

So 'hispanic' is as ignorant as, say, calling someone who can trace ancestry to the South Pacific an 'oriental'?

?!?

:o I did not know that.

I see that I will have to work on my vocabulary!

[Lookielu]

The new correct term for oriental is asian. Only use oriental for things like a rug.:p

I think the people of the south pacific are called something besides asian. Maybe Polynesian.

These forums are great - almost any subject you want to talk about.


icu

[Jones, Nikka]

Originally posted by BDSM_Tourguide
Anyone needing any proof that Hispanic men and women are as racially diverse as Caucasians need look no further than Brazil.

Sorry to get technical on you TG, but Brazilian people, while also called Latin-American, are not Hispanics. The language of the majority in the land of Samba is Portuguese, not Spanish.

Latino, or Latin-American or Ibero-American is anyone, regardless of actual race, who hails from one of Spain's or Portugal's old colonies in the American continent.

Hispanic is a person whose mother tongue is Spanish, regardless of nationality.

American, well that is a tough one. It could mean anyone who lives in the American Continent, North, Central or South America, whether he is from Canada, Mexico, Surinam or Uruguay, as well as the citizens of what in Canada we refer to as "The Great Republic to the South"

In fact the people living in the lands limited by Canada, Mexico, and the Atlantic and Pacific oceans may be the only people in the world who live in a country named after a continent.

[BDSM_Tourguide]

Originally posted by Jones, Nikka
Sorry to get technical on you TG, but Brazilian people, while also called Latin-American, are not Hispanics. The language of the majority in the land of Samba is Portuguese, not Spanish.


Originally posted by woodsman'sgame
Hispanic is actually an incorrect term. It is an adjective, not a noun, and refers to anything from the peninsula of Hispania, which includes Portugal and the Basques and Catalans and Gallegos that don't speak Spanish.


To avoid placing foot too far into mouth, please read all the posts.

Incidentally, I lived in Houston, Texas for over half my life. I spent a little time dating a Brazilian gitl. She did some to educate me about their culture.

And I think game is of Hispanic/Latino descent. At least that's the impression I get. I take her word that she knows a bit about what she is talking.

I live to learn.

[Jones, Nikka]

Originally posted by Woodsman'sgame
Hispanic is actually an incorrect term. It ... refers to anything from the peninsula of Hispania, which includes Portugal and the Basques and Catalans and Gallegos that don't speak Spanish.

The term came into use in the US census (1920 I think). The US government was wanting to figure out a way to get numbers on Spanish speakers in the US, who of course checked any racial column that fit their particular race.
Someone came up with the term Hispanic and listed it under "race".

The correct term for the peninsula where Portugal and Spain are located is Iberia. This is what latin (roman) historians called the region as early as 98 B.C. a time when Spain and Portugal were far from being recognized as the countries they are today. One of the regions into which the peninsula was divided was indeed called Ispania.

The term Hispanic started being used in the early 19th century in Latin-America to designate the period of history in which those countries were not yet under spanish rule. In spanish: Periodo Pre-Hispanico. The designation was mostly a political one, as the 11 new republics sougth to distance themselves from all colonial ties and did not really care which region of Spain their conquerors came from.

[bondage_bunny]

Wow, these posts are really interesting. I'm afraid I made assumptions in the past about what the term "Hispanic" meant--I thought it specifically meant people born in Mexico. Geez, am I ignorant! Thanks for setting me straight.

I'm such a mutt myself--my ancestors seem to have come from all over Europe--that I guess I really don't think about race or ethnic orgins. So this thread is good food for thought.

[pandemonium]

You won't find an agreement as to whether or not any "Hispanic" population in any given area will refer to themselves as Hispanic. Some will say Latino/a some or others. Its usually wise to check with the locals of a given area.
Another thing that a lot of people don't get is that many people from South and Central America that live in North America don't put the American after the country of origin, because its redundant.
People have a tendency to put American after as if its proof of citizenship.
and more mindless ramblings.

[woodsman'sgame]

Nikka,

According to Webster's dictionary and the Britannica Encyclopedia, both, "Hispania" is the Roman term for what we now call the Iberian peninsula. (I checked to be sure.)
So, as I said, the correct original meaning of the term "hispanic" was an adjective describing something from the peninsula of Iberia or "Hispania."
It has changed its original meaning, however, as I have described.

[Spitman]

This has been an interesting read.

Hispania is pronounced almost the same way as Espagna, which is the way people in Spain pronounce the name of their country.

When I lived in Houston, Texas I dated a girl of Mexican origin, who introduced me to the life and culture of San Antonio, one of my favourite places in the world for atmosphere.

I now have Mexican friends who live in Mexico, and she is a blonde with blue eyes. I want two more just the same!

We can also refer to Latin languages, being all languages descended from Latin, including Romanian, I believe, and I speak one of them.

[bdsmbill]

Originally posted by woodsman'sgame
e.e. norcod - Thanks for the very imformative post on the Spanish speakers and descendants of Spaniards who live in the Southwest.

It's interesting to me that Texas is considered part of the Southwest. A quick look at a map will clearly show Texas in the middle of the US southern half. It is directly south of Iowa, Minnesota and Missouri.

I guess the name was assigned when nobody went much further west than Texas. Anyway, here in Arizona we think it's pretty funny.

Since we are talking about the Southwest, I thought I would share a recipe:

Southwestern Style Brocolli

Take 2 pounds of brocolli, 5 pounds of green chilis, 2 pounds of jalapenos, 1/2 dozen habaneros, 20 pounds of peeled, fresh tomatos, 3 cans of pitted black olives, 5 bunches of green onions (trimmed and washed) and juice from 5 limes.

Boil the brocolli for 20 minutes and then discard it, along with the water used to prepare it. Whirl the remaining ingredients in batches in a food processor for 20 seconds for each batch, varying the time as needed depending upon the processor. Don't liquify it, but don't leave big chunks, either.

Mix it all up in a big bowl, and salt to taste. Serve it with corn chips. It will serve 6 Arizonans, 12 Texans, or several thousand people from New England.

Enjoy

Bill

[e.e. norcod]

dear bill

1) Texas should most properly be considered South Central. Weuns aint south but weuns aint exaxely west neither.

2) in your recipe you left out the Bourbon and Tecquilla, St. Arnold's Brown Ale, Celis Rasberry White Belgian Ale and Lone Star Beer. That's why them furriners up in New England couldn't get any of the food down.

[reverie35]

Texas is so large that it can be considered in many areas of the country. The western third is desert that is very southwest. The east is very much like the south and the north central area is a part of the great plains. The far south is Tropical.

To paraharase James Mitchner from the Book 'Texas'.

If you are in east Texas you are closer to the Atlantic than west Texas. If you are in El Paso you are closer to the Pacific than east Texas.

Now the surprise.

If you are at the top of the panhandle its only 50 miles further to Canada than it is to Brownsville at the southern tip.

[Spitman]

That's a bit like Norway. If you are in Oslo, you are 40 miles closer to Vienna than you are to the Northernmost point in mainland Norway.

For me the biggest surprise in Texas, where they used to talk about the Law West of the Pecos, was to find that the Pecos river was a narrow ditch that a man could easily jump across.