Doms: age, experience, maturity?

[cariad]

I have moved this, and the following 5 posts from a personal thread which went off on a tangent. Although they were clearly out of place where they were originally posted, I do think they are potentially a starting point for an interesting thread...


That is why, with one notable exception, both on and off line, I have a preference for men beyond your age range. My offline relationship began when he was more than double my age. I would urge you to keep an open mind - some of the oldies might surprise you.

cariad

[Sir_Russell]

cariad

Thanks for standing up for us older experienced Doms. I agree with cariad that when it takes a while to realize what is real and what is only make believe, the young Doms don't always know how to be safe and sane.

Russell

[nightsilver]

So all the female subs go for the old doms it makes it harder for the younger ones to get experience eh?

Of course I do agree with you Sir_Russel on the realizing the difference between reality and fantasy.

[crikey_2004]

with age comes life experience too I'd say... but just because a dom may not be experienced, they may still be mentally mature enough to research before they try something, and voila, a young, yet 'good' dom! but nothing replaces a dom that's already 'been there, done that' tho...

[Xavier]

Now, now, I wouldn't generalize so widely. In my (perhaps) limited experience, connecting with a sub is akin to (at least as it's described) having a child. Regardless what your imagination or fears may have been prior, there's no such thing as "prepared"... and yet somehow, one's nurturing and protective instincts seem to arrive right on time. The first time you gaze down into the dependence of those wide, innocent eyes... something just takes over.

Of course, unlike with parenting, not everyone is naturally suited to the responsibilities of a dom - and not everyone would want to be. It may also be that sometimes forming that connection is overlooked by the overeager, and maybe that's the more common failing of youth's impatience. Nonetheless, don't make the mistake of writing off all us 20-somethings.

Will we mature, and improve through experience as we age? Hard for me to rule it out until time tells me. But I expect there are just as many disappointing, would-be doms in the middle age bracket.

Anyway, I'm sorry you've given up still unsatisfied ann, but I hope you'll keep an open mind; we're not all uneducated, or unsophisticated, or unrealistic.

[crikey_2004]

Very good point! Mine was a very general statement. I know a 50 yo that can be childish and self centered and also a 22 yo that I think would make a great dom if that were his choice.

[nightsilver]

Xavier wrote pretty much what I was thinking.

And sorry for having detracted from the initial purpose of the thread.

[cariad]

I have been playing around with this in my head over the last few days, and realised that at least why my preference is generally for an older Dom, that is because of his maturity, not necessarily his experience.

cariad

[wolfs_lilgirl]

yes i love my sir! cuz he has expirience.. and he shows me.. and it feels good! to be with him!!

[Sir_Russell]

Well since I seemed to have started something her that was not my intention maybe I should expand on what I meant.

Bare with me as I ramble, please. First as a teen I freaked my friends and a lot of adults I proposed that there should be 3 marriages for each person. The first should be any old person say 45 or more to a young person, giving the older person a means to recapture youth and drive. Allowing the young person to learn from one with experience and knowledge to be treated tenderly, protected and loved. I felt that would be a far trade off and I guess I still do. The second would have been 30 to 30 to allow each the passion of like experiences also it is a time for children so that they are raised by people that have reached a sufficeint level of maturity to be up to that task. Third would be 65 and over to another 65 and older. That allows for that laid back time where physical drives are waning and the companiship of one with similar life experiences and values.

I am not trying to say that there is no place for you Doms I was a very young Dom at one time myself. My point was that todays youth culture has lost the value of experience dooming themselves to have to everything the hard way.

I am at a time in my life where a 20 year old is not what I desire anymore, sure for a brief period of time it would be good for both of us but I want someone that can understand my perspectives on life from going through at the same time. I have had young sub/slave recently and trying to explain flower power and the beatles

No matter what stage of life your in you should be learning about your way of life and yourself. If your young you must learn to control yourself first before ever considering controlling another. When you lack experience you really don't know what is happening next and the only way to over come that is to move safely. Play chess with the life, if I do this what is it that she can possible do. You need to have all the answers because the one you don't prepare for will eat your lunch and cause her either mental or physical pain that you never intended.

If it helps any young Doms the Dom has the hardest job in the life and the young sub may have the easiest.

Russell

[rce]

...
Bare with me as I ramble, please. First as a teen I freaked my friends and a lot of adults I proposed that there should be 3 marriages for each person. The first should be any old person say 45 or more to a young person, giving the older person a means to recapture youth and drive. Allowing the young person to learn from one with experience and knowledge to be treated tenderly, protected and loved. I felt that would be a far trade off and I guess I still do. The second would have been 30 to 30 to allow each the passion of like experiences also it is a time for children so that they are raised by people that have reached a sufficeint level of maturity to be up to that task. Third would be 65 and over to another 65 and older. That allows for that laid back time where physical drives are waning and the companiship of one with similar life experiences and values.
...

An interesting idea! (I really think so, even though I, as a strictly monogamous guy do not agree with it.) However, I would have thought the third marriage would be with one much younger, as the other side of the first marriage. How else could the young people marry an older, experienced person?

I'd also say that many people in the second type of marriage naturally follow each other into the third kind of marriage.

[Sir_Russell]

actually your right the third is the inverse of the first. The fourth is a new thought since I am nearing that time myself.

[Rhabbi]

My view is that the maturity is the deciding factor. It is possible to have lots of experience and still be controlling, or just a jerk, so I would prefer to have someone judge me on maturity first, then experience. Age obviously factors into this, but you can be mature and young.

[gloombunny]

Not all older doms are more experienced, and not all experienced doms are older...

[vistana]

I actually just found out that my boyfriend/dom is younger than I am - he doesn't talk about his age, he runs his own business and most people would be reluctant to sign the kind of deals he's doing with someone only just out of their teens. He doesn't mention it, just lets people assume that he's older than he is.

He has more experience than I do, is certainly mature for his age, although being young and silly myself too much maturity is not on my list of qualifications.

I don't think I'd want to be with someone terribly much older than myself, I enjoy being silly and immature too much. I don't need someone much more experienced than I am, although much less would be more difficult, I'm a lousy teacher.
I don't want a dom to be my guide and teacher, I want a partner who I can explore this crazy world of kink with together. Someone more experienced, more mature, older, would make me feel like a student, not an equal in the relationship. And that's what I need, there may be a power dynamic in the relationship, but if I didn't feel that I was equal to my partner I wouldn't be happy in the relationship.

Also, I'm most likely shaping my current 'ideal' to fit the guy I'm with right now, because I'm completely head over heels like that. :)

[nightsilver]

I actually just found out that my boyfriend/dom is younger than I am - he doesn't talk about his age, he runs his own business and most people would be reluctant to sign the kind of deals he's doing with someone only just out of their teens. He doesn't mention it, just lets people assume that he's older than he is.

He has more experience than I do, is certainly mature for his age, although being young and silly myself too much maturity is not on my list of qualifications.

I don't think I'd want to be with someone terribly much older than myself, I enjoy being silly and immature too much. I don't need someone much more experienced than I am, although much less would be more difficult, I'm a lousy teacher.
I don't want a dom to be my guide and teacher, I want a partner who I can explore this crazy world of kink with together. Someone more experienced, more mature, older, would make me feel like a student, not an equal in the relationship. And that's what I need, there may be a power dynamic in the relationship, but if I didn't feel that I was equal to my partner I wouldn't be happy in the relationship.

Also, I'm most likely shaping my current 'ideal' to fit the guy I'm with right now, because I'm completely head over heels like that. :)

I think you are thinking as maturity being synonymous with serious whereas I view maturity as realizing there is a time and place for everything. Of course I may have the wrong definition here.

Given how maturity is used here, I would say part of it (pull from sir russel here) is knowing the difference between reality and fantasy. Rhabbi was implying that maturity has a lot to deal with how a person interacts with another (controlling or just a jerk). Adding my own in, realizing there is a time for everything is a big part of maturity. Being able to admit when making a mistake and trying to change from it.

Of course, I too love to be able to be able to joke around with my friends yet my sisters friends seem to be immature to me. I wonder how much my definition of maturity will change over the next ten and twenty years.

I am wondering now, is immaturity disjoint from maturity? What would you guys think makes a person immature? Selfish and unrealistic? Perhaps misplaced priorities in life (and maybe this is where the serious vs. silly thing comes into play)?


Bare with me as I ramble, please. First as a teen I freaked my friends and a lot of adults I proposed that there should be 3 marriages for each person. The first should be any old person say 45 or more to a young person, giving the older person a means to recapture youth and drive. Allowing the young person to learn from one with experience and knowledge to be treated tenderly, protected and loved. I felt that would be a far trade off and I guess I still do. The second would have been 30 to 30 to allow each the passion of like experiences also it is a time for children so that they are raised by people that have reached a sufficeint level of maturity to be up to that task. Third would be 65 and over to another 65 and older. That allows for that laid back time where physical drives are waning and the companiship of one with similar life experiences and values.


I find this idea has a lot of good points to it. I even think I read scifi book once where this was a change in social behavior but for the life of me I cannot remember the book. My major question to you is in the first marriage.

Is it better to explore the world together as vistana was talking about or having someone there to able to guide and teach? I remember the nervousness of my first time. I had tried to prepare myself researching on the internet about different parts of the woman's body and what to do to pleasure her yet when I was with her I made so many mistakes. I found that exploring and learning and making mistakes together brought us closer together.

Although I can see the inherent benefit of a young man learning from an older woman (maybe more men would be able to pleasure women then...), as a relationship I wonder how close they would become. Would the intimacy still be there regardless of the age gap? I am trying to picture myself in such a situation but being with a woman older than my mom just feels foreign to me.

My other question is that can each person only have one marriage at a time? And thus the three throughout their life. Or can they have up to three at once? Again, I wonder about how managing emotions of jealousy there. If it is one at a time, as I learn from my first marriage and then I leave her to marry a younger woman to raise a family with, I could see myself feeling heartbroken leaving her. And once my kids are raised leaving my wife I raised children with to marry a new woman? And then going back to her at 65 ish?

I think it would make sense if the older and younger person marriage was just a more casual relationship where the experienced one tutors the younger one.

Apologies for the long winded post. Sorry if it's a bit incoherent at points/

[Sir_Russell]

nightsilver
Thanks for seeing some of the logic there. With today's divorce rates in the US I think speaks volumes that we need to change

Yes each marriage would have a very different feel to it. I think the overall physical condition of the people involved would improve. Picture yourself knowing that you would be with a young person soon I think that at age 40 I would have been a big work out freak.

I really believe that because you feel stuck once married and things go a little sour many people find the tv and the beer or bon bons maybe both.

oh well just an old thought

Back to maturity I am not saying it is the end all. Good common sense is a large part of it, the ability to realize that if something can go wrong it will. Find someone to learn from , I was fortunate to have been mentor long ago and became safer and saner, and remember that this isn't sex that we are talking about here. Fun mistakes in sex are wonderful but a mistake with a sub can leave permant scars.

Oh I have paid it forward, I have mentor about 10 new Doms, maybe I should say 9 Doms and one guy that I realized would never get it and harm some poor sub.

Russell

[Wolven_Vixen]

In my opinion, I think maturity should be the first consideration. Age is not the deciding factor in maturity either. *my x is proof of that* Experience is gained by action, no matter what a persons age....but I believe that responsibility comes with maturity, which is most important, especially in a BDSM relationship.

I just read what I wrote and it sounds much like a ramble, so I'll sum it up this way. I don't think age or experience are as important as maturity.

[nightsilver]

nightsilver
Thanks for seeing some of the logic there. With today's divorce rates in the US I think speaks volumes that we need to change

Yes each marriage would have a very different feel to it. I think the overall physical condition of the people involved would improve. Picture yourself knowing that you would be with a young person soon I think that at age 40 I would have been a big work out freak.

I really believe that because you feel stuck once married and things go a little sour many people find the tv and the beer or bon bons maybe both.

oh well just an old thought

Back to maturity I am not saying it is the end all. Good common sense is a large part of it, the ability to realize that if something can go wrong it will. Find someone to learn from , I was fortunate to have been mentor long ago and became safer and saner, and remember that this isn't sex that we are talking about here. Fun mistakes in sex are wonderful but a mistake with a sub can leave permant scars.

Oh I have paid it forward, I have mentor about 10 new Doms, maybe I should say 9 Doms and one guy that I realized would never get it and harm some poor sub.

Russell

Having a Dom as a mentor when learning would make things safer for sure. And I know that if I should find myself where I am in a BDSM relationship with a sub of my own, I will be going slowly because I would be worried about hurting the woman I care about. It's like cooking I guess. Once you add too much its hard to take it back.

Perhaps I am being overly optimistic, but I hope I do not feel like I will be stuck should I get married in the future. I have always viewed marriage as a commitment to each other to try and make things work through the good and the bad, something that I feel lucky to have seen my parents doing as I grew up.

[TheDeSade]

As an old fat grey haired over the hill broken down slightly senile sadistic Dom, I must say that in the end, old age and treachery will always over come youth and enthusiasm

[dynamicbuttler]

So all the female subs go for the old doms it makes it harder for the younger ones to get experience eh?

Yo, I would NOT complain if I were you. A dom is a good thing to be. Why complain that the subs prefer older doms when it's a known fact that doms are outnumbered and therefore you'll be loved by subs reguardless? If a female dom wanted to take me under her wing, do you think id actually REJECT her and look for an older one? Hell fucking no. I found one, and that's good enough.

[Sir_Russell]

lol dynamicbuttler

I have read that it is 10 subs for each actual Dom, not wannabees so yeah the odds are good

Russell

[gloombunny]

I must say that in the end, old age and treachery will always over come youth and enthusiasm
I prefer youth and treachery, myself. ^_^

[~hellish one~]

It's like cooking I guess. Once you add too much its hard to take it back.


very very true! i love that analogy.

[TomOfSweden]

I am not trying to say that there is no place for you Doms I was a very young Dom at one time myself. My point was that todays youth culture has lost the value of experience dooming themselves to have to everything the hard way.

I don't agree there is a youth culture. There's only a youth culture among young kids. Which only is a problem for an older person if they themselves would prefer to fuck young kids. So then they're so to speak, part of their own problem.

All older guys I know who fuck young girls have all truck loads of issues. I'm not sure they're the right men to educate our youth. There's a maturity issue.

And just to make it clear, I'm not talking about being a sexual mentor for somebody young. Which is a great thing, and something more should do....but that doesn't necesarily involve having sex with them.

I've always liked women on my own level of maturity, (which ever age it may be) which means that they're most likely to be my own age.

[nightsilver]

Fair enough Dynamicbuttler. Although I think I am more of a switch than anything else, I still haven't found any young ladies around where I am who are interested in BDSM. That's probably because I am too busy preoccupied with my studies though.

TomOfSweden's reply brought my attention to:

My point was that todays youth culture has lost the value of experience dooming themselves to have to everything the hard way.

And yes, this is a bit off topic. It seems every generation feels that the generation after it is doomed somehow or another. The older generations have felt that video games, rock and roll music, television, comic books, and before that I believe I remember reading that it was fiction were all swaying the youth into being immoral.

[TomOfSweden]

And yes, this is a bit off topic. It seems every generation feels that the generation after it is doomed somehow or another. The older generations have felt that video games, rock and roll music, television, comic books, and before that I believe I remember reading that it was fiction were all swaying the youth into being immoral.

This is what Socrates had to say on the matter:



The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place
of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.


I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that the decadence of the youth was alive and kicking way before ancient Greece. I think it's some genetic thing. When we're young we think that the older generations don't get it and when we are older we realize that we hadn't a clue and there was so much pain we could have avoided if only somebody had told us about it. But kids don't listen, and probably never will. I didn't.

Kids brains are physically different from older peoples. According to new Brittish research the area in the brain responsible for empathy isn't fully developed until we're 23. Meaning that it's quite natural for teenagers to be clinically psychopaths. There's a whole bunch of hormones we know of that are in steady decline all through our lives. I don't think the generations will be able to understand each other ever.

Young girls look really nice with their gravity defying tits and firm portruding ass and slim legs....but...and...eh...well...thank god for porn... Sexy is about more than rubbing of attractive parts.

[Beswitchingly Positive]

It seems to me there is an infinate variety of realtionship patterns a person can choose in life. When I was young and found my first lover, he was 8 years older, we were poly, he was my primary, I learned ALOT from him in five years, after that ended, there was a period of decided celibacy, I was celibate for almost five years. Yes I am a masochist.

Then, in my 20's, I became poly/active again...almost all the men were younger as I got older. I became monogamous with a younger man and that had a sad ending...was it cause he was younger or because we were monogamous? I think it had more to do with character and maturity than a physical age...

It is not that I had an adversion to older men,...it just worked out that I had a lot of younger lovers. It was good while it lasted. All of it.

Romping with the boys (and a few girls, I have a deep preference for males) was very exciting, though not necessarily technically proficient, there was the enthusiasm, so there is something to be said for younger men.

Some of them were able to dominate me sexually, some of them just wanted me to call the shots, some could inflict the right amounts of pain and recieve their own...some of you might be thinking, this is not a question for a switch, as I was not looking for a Dom in particular but someone who was both Dom and sub, but the issue of age/maturity and the quality of sex and preference applies to all sexual realtionships...which is better or more preferable, older, same, or younger???

I found suitably rough domineering partners that were younger, but the one that stands out was about 5 years older, he was french, and he had the mindset of a real Dom, not just a domineering personality, but a dominant sexuality...he made me come hard just by holding me on his lap talking to me half in french, forbidding me to touch myself and pulling my hair...we had no talk of lifestyle, or the fact that we were kinky, we just knew. It was a natural progression. We had the advantage of both having tattoos in places that just screamed sadomasochist...

Now that was sweet, no direct physical contact with the organs associated with orgasm, but better sex than the best fuck...he had the Dom mindset for sex. I think this is the part most folks are not good at when they are younger...I suppose it can be learned, or honed, or naturally developed...the more cool tricks you learn that work and the more your study and practice what you love to do, the better you are at something, especially Dominating, the more confidence the better, the more lovers I had the more I figured out what it is I truly want.

So I played with the boys, recently it occured to me it might be healthier for myself to consider an older man, I was poly most my life, did ALOT of shopping around, was mono once and he cheated on me (big advantage of being poly, this never happened, as I was always honest and so were my lovers...good enough for me) Healthier, in that older men seem to have it more together, my young man that talked me into monogamy and cheated was a big lesson...and bang, I meet a really interesting older man, with a perceptable experience level and similar taste for kink...

I guess my point is whatever you wish for or look for, you can get, if you are wondering which way is better TRY IT! (if you are not tied down, so to speak)...self doubt has been my biggest enemy and led me into the worst realtionships. I mean, why worry about what most people want (we are not them) and figure out what you might like and try it! Older, younger...they both have pros and cons, from my experience...it is compatibiliy of the individuals that shines the brightest and best, not a certain age difference...

Older? Younger? Same age???

In my experience, I have found good in all of it, perhaps having a less preconcieved notion and going with the flow of things, assessing each man as an individual rather than a "type" or "age" has led me to some good lovers and some lame ones...it really is all a carnal crapshoot after all, with individuals of any age.

[Sir_Russell]

I have no problem with a young sub wanting a young Dom sorta human nature. But when it comes to learning the life I still say that age experience and wisdom are important.

To that end I advise new subs to ask about the experience of an unknown Dom and if possible talk with subs he has mmmm played with.

Russell

[TomOfSweden]

I have no problem with a young sub wanting a young Dom sorta human nature. But when it comes to learning the life I still say that age experience and wisdom are important.

To that end I advise new subs to ask about the experience of an unknown Dom and if possible talk with subs he has mmmm played with.

Russell

I totaly agree. But my point was along the line of....when we're young an inexperienced we're unlikely to know a good thing when we see it. Kids keep going for, and fall for superficial qualities, simply because they don't know better. It's not until we've been hurt more times than healthy we start thinking. The time when we value age and experience. By which time we're allready over thirty and it's all academic.

I'm just using myself here as a reference, but I've got a feeling that my experiences are far from unique.

[gloombunny]

Personally, while I've been deeply attracted to people much older than me on several occasions, I find that the generation gap can and does get in the way. We just... have different interests and such, and it's harder to relate than with someone closer to my own age. And a relationship has to work as just a relationship before it can work as D/s, at least for me. So that's why I hope for a younger dom. (Though I don't let it stop me when I do get interested in someone older. It'd be foolish to turn down what might be something really good just because the age isn't right, I think.)

[cariad]

The only time I have found the generation gap getting in the way is when it comes to childhood television - but since he is currently enjoying buying DVD's of those memories, I will soon be up to speed on that part of ancient history. *Ducks*

cariad

[Guest 91108]

c. you should duck. Badness. LMAO.

~

I've found age doesn't weigh in maturity. and Maturity is what a relationship needs. Maturity in one individual may not equal that of another, throw in personality and then you begin to see much difference.