New Discussion: What's an internet sub for?

[MMI]

OK - Here's a question for everyone. I hope it starts an interesting debate.

As I'm new here, I will refrain from voicing an opinion - but I sure would like to know yours.

So - What's an internet sub for?

Now ...fire away!!!

[Guest 91108]

I think there are many "uses" for an internet sub.

* To fill one's Dom need's while he explores possiblities with a sub doing the same thing.

* To share experiences and a bond with someone .

* To Do what some can't do in rl for whatever the reason may be.

* For The Sub To build a trust and share of the D/s relationship that some can't find in real life because some Doms in real life are truly assholes.

* For the Dom who is an ass in real life but has a better online relationship with people and they seem to hang around longer. Note = ( really thinks I need a thread on Good and Bad Doms again from discussions with other members. )

* For the subs ability to learn and share with her RL Dom or SO new interests that will improve the relationship. ( Same goes for the Dom)

* For the sub to explore her boundaries with out causing rl damage to another relationship.

* hrm i could think of some more if i spent the time......... chuckles.

[Rhabbi]

* For the sub to explore her boundaries with out causing rl damage to another relationship.

This is probably the best reason.

I can think of another though, to give the Dom a chance to learn self discipline.

[anonymouse]

Sometimes, it can simply be 'compatibility' of interests. I don't like football (or sport in general) so for me, the chances of finding people I like in football forums are low. It's also possible to be an internet sub without being 'attached' to any one, particular internet dom. The same is true in real life. In other words, simple, plain old-fashioned friendships. Does that help the original poster?

anonymouse

[gloombunny]

For when the person you want lives far away?

[Widget]

the same thing an internet Dom is for, a safe way to start to explore desires for some people? a non threatening way to start to find out about taboo desires?

[Mishka]

having someone a part of your life you need but haven't found until now

[Psynymph]

i think MMI is trying to steal my job..... *pout*

i think Wolf pretty much got it as right as possible......

[Guest 91108]

i think MMI is trying to steal my job..... *pout*

i think Wolf pretty much got it as right as possible......

you agree ... thanks :wave: .. that is a first ......................

[Psynymph]

oh shush You!!!! *growls and then runs*

[Rhabbi]

having someone a part of your life you need but haven't found until now

Awwww

[MMI]

If I could pout as prettily as you, Nymph, maybe I could do your job ... but as it is, the only thing I can provoke is discussion <sigh>.

Thanks for everyone's thoughts. Friendship (or more) seems to be the key: see anonymouse's post. But why dom/sub online? I can see what can be gained from a real life dom/sub relationship, but isn't it just pretence online?

[Sir_Russell]

MMI it could be just a pretense and time killing high, but it also lets two people find and explore each other. I met several sub/slaves online in chat rooms and went from there. The moment that it seemed they were just on a lark then I left or if I found that we would not work for one reason or another. My slave morgan I actually met through an adult web site she advertised for a Daddy Dom and described me. We were rl for a year and right now are online due to her having to go home. It will have to do for us till I move to her.

Russell

[ceegee{Benz}]

Benz and I met nearly 3 years ago via a chat system and we got on really well. to the point after getting to know him...i offered him my gift of submission last aug...and recieved my collar for my birthday. we spent a wonderful 4 weeks at xmas together and hopefully by the end of this year i will be joining him for good in Australia

[MMI]

No further questions ...for now - lol

Thanks for everyone's contributions and candour. I shall be thinking it over.

I would add that I "played" at master and slave with a lady in a chat room ... a stray remark about submissives was siezed on and we thought it would be a laugh to pursue it. But apart from a couple of weeks where she called me master, she had no interest in the game at all and didn't participate in any of the tasks I set her (or I didn't believe her). I, on the other hand was fascinated by it. In view of this failed experiment, I wondered if the internet route was doomed to failure every time.

[Warbaby1943]

To find a trust you never knew existed and a love you only dreamed of.

To have a relationship from half a world away knowing you will never meet yet still knowing it couldn't be stronger if you could actually hold hands.

To gain a bit of insight into your real self that you may have kept hidden for years.

To find a compatibility you never imagined.

So why do it on line and not in real life?

First off even though on line it is still real life.

Maybe because it is the only way possible for some to achieve these feelings and keep their family life from falling apart.

Maybe it is a release of ones true nature that can't be shared with those closest to them for one reason or another.

Maybe because your closest companion, whether it be a spouse or significant other has no interest in BDSM activities and you justify in your mind that on line really isn't cheating (though many disagree.)

Maybe it gives your life a new and very happy reason for waking up in the morning.

Maybe, just maybe because you really love doing it on line because you truly the person you are doing it with.

Maybe you can see I really don't know what the reasons are but know I never want it to end. Is that reason enough?

[caligirl{Rob}]

smiles....it is like any relationship r/l or online some work some don't...and with commitment and interest and trust/respect on both sides o/l can be a wonderful way to explore for both sides, it can be a good way to test limits and if you are as lucky, patient, blessed as i it can transfer on to r/l, just this subs quiet 2 cents! smiles

with extra smiles after reading Warbaby's touching post above!!!

[slaveangel{HM}]

To find a trust you never knew existed and a love you only dreamed of.

To have a relationship from half a world away knowing you will never meet yet still knowing it couldn't be stronger if you could actually hold hands.

To gain a bit of insight into your real self that you may have kept hidden for years.

To find a compatibility you never imagined.

So why do it on line and not in real life?

First off even though on line it is still real life.

Maybe because it is the only way possible for some to achieve these feelings and keep their family life from falling apart.

Maybe it is a release of ones true nature that can't be shared with those closest to them for one reason or another.

Maybe because your closest companion, whether it be a spouse or significant other has no interest in BDSM activities and you justify in your mind that on line really isn't cheating (though many disagree.)

Maybe it gives your life a new and very happy reason for waking up in the morning.

Maybe, just maybe because you really love doing it on line because you truly the person you are doing it with.

Maybe you can see I really don't know what the reasons are but know I never want it to end. Is that reason enough?

Perfectly said. I cannot agree with you more. The intensity and feelings can still be felt in an online relationship. With Master and I there are contributing factors why we haven't made the next step and being together r/l perminantely.

For U/us for now it is online until we are able to arrange things and meet, it is something that we are hoping for, in the not to distant future. But if it never happens...things are unchanged, the bond is still there, the love is still there, and that way that you can sense Him...and know what He is thinking and feeling without unspoken words..it's truly remarkable. But with that comes time...we've been together for almost 2 years online and also on the phone...you discover things constantly and above all know where your heart and trust is.

[Warbaby1943]

Perfectly said. I cannot agree with you more. The intensity and feelings can still be felt in an online relationship. With Master and I there are contributing factors why we haven't made the next step and being together r/l perminantely.

For U/us for now it is online until we are able to arrange things and meet, it is something that we are hoping for, in the not to distant future. But if it never happens...things are unchanged, the bond is still there, the love is still there, and that way that you can sense Him...and know what He is thinking and feeling without unspoken words..it's truly remarkable. But with that comes time...we've been together for almost 2 years online and also on the phone...you discover things constantly and above all know where your heart and trust is.

I agree totally. Aussiegirl and I are going on nearly a year together in one capacity or another. We seem to, as you say, know what each other is thinking before any spoken word passes our lips. We talk live 5 or 6 days a week and now she even has a web cam so I can see her as we talk or play. It is real life, I just can't touch her. Though I'd love to be able to, it will never happen and we both know that. We knew it going into this. So to keep our relationship alive and thriving we choose to live as we do which is another reason for our on line commitment to each other.

I believe in an on line relationship you must have more trust in one another because you truly only have words to keep you together along with your deep love and devotion to each other.

One more reason why we do it is because we can and love it that we do.

[Radiance]

Everything you say is so true hun,your words were perfect.Perfectly said.

Radiance

[gloombunny]

I would add that I "played" at master and slave with a lady in a chat room ... a stray remark about submissives was siezed on and we thought it would be a laugh to pursue it. But apart from a couple of weeks where she called me master, she had no interest in the game at all and didn't participate in any of the tasks I set her (or I didn't believe her). I, on the other hand was fascinated by it. In view of this failed experiment, I wondered if the internet route was doomed to failure every time.
I'm not sure why you think it was the online part that caused that "relationship" to fail.

[Aussiegirl1]

I agree totally. Aussiegirl and I are going on nearly a year together in one capacity or another. We seem to, as you say, know what each other is thinking before any spoken word passes our lips. We talk live 5 or 6 days a week and now she even has a web cam so I can see her as we talk or play. It is real life, I just can't touch her. Though I'd love to be able to, it will never happen and we both know that. We knew it going into this. So to keep our relationship alive and thriving we choose to live as we do which is another reason for our on line commitment to each other.

I believe in an on line relationship you must have more trust in one another because you truly only have words to keep you together along with your deep love and devotion to each other.

One more reason why we do it is because we can and love it that we do.


I don't have time for a long reply, but just want to say that online with Warbaby I have found something I have never found before in any other relationship. To me, it is very real. The only downside is that I have to keep it private from my family and most of my friends due to the nature of the relationship, and of course that it will always only ever be online.

That being said, I would never want to go back to not having this relationship in my life. Each day I learn and grow more and more. I am a better person because of it.

[MMI]

You think her lack of interest might have played a part? Or maybe I was setting the wrong kind of tasks.

Of course I realise those poss... probabilities.

What the relationship lacked most of all was honesty on her part ... "yes, Master, I'll do it" (knowing she wouldn't) and trust on mine ... "Bet you didn't do it really".

I would add that I really wanted to believe her and gave her a lot of benefit of the doubt. In the end, I think she just thought it was too freaky.

Now, it seems to me that in real life, such a situation will occur less often and for different reasons than on line; and as there is no effective control a dom can have without absolute trust, isn't it true that the sub is, in fact in control?

[StillBehindBlueEyes]

HI
I've had two Masters online since Feb 06 to me they were very real. They filled a spot my spouse wouldn't or couldn't. I found love, acceptance, friendship and such strong and intense feelings that it kept me from going crazy.

I did every task asked of me and performed them to the best of my abilities just as if my master were watching me. I spent time preparing my reports to tantalize and tease the man I performed for.

I will probably do it again after I've gotten out of my busy time. maybe you just need to find the right person to compliment your style. :)
Sbbe

[TheDeSade]

I think, for many who are online, it is as sbbe says, to fill portions or needs in their lives that aren't being taken care of.

[Warbaby1943]

You think her lack of interest might have played a part? Or maybe I was setting the wrong kind of tasks.

Of course I realise those poss... probabilities.

What the relationship lacked most of all was honesty on her part ... "yes, Master, I'll do it" (knowing she wouldn't) and trust on mine ... "Bet you didn't do it really".

I would add that I really wanted to believe her and gave her a lot of benefit of the doubt. In the end, I think she just thought it was too freaky.

Now, it seems to me that in real life, such a situation will occur less often and for different reasons than on line; and as there is no effective control a dom can have without absolute trust, isn't it true that the sub is, in fact in control?

I think you may have hit the problem on the head when you said there was a lack of honesty on her part. You have to have total honesty and the best communication possible because, as I said or at least tried to say, words are all you have since you can't reach out and hold your loved one.

If I couldn't trust Aussiegirl and she couldn't trust me, we would have nothing. If I ask her to do some task and she accepts it, I know 100% it will be done. There is not the slightest bit of doubt in my mind about her doing as I ask, none what-so-ever. She would never lie to me if she ever failed to accomplish the entire task. I could bet my life on her honesty. Maybe I am lucky she is so honest, hell I know I am lucky since finding her, but I trust her completely.

[Sir_Russell]

MMI no the sub/slave is not in control. Before the relationship is begun you first negotiate hard limits and conditions. I have a set of questions I have worked on and am still working on to be sure they cover needed subject and issues.

If her set of hard limits are acceptable to me I accept her service if not I refuse. After that her body is my to do with as I wish provided I do not violate any hard limits. I will push them, test her from time to time.

Last thought on this for now is that if a Dom/Master is too selfish he will probably lose his sub/slave.

Russell

[MMI]

May I say how impressed I am with your thoughtful replies, and illustrations of how you live them. Thank-you all.

But are there no bad experiences? Is mine really the worst (I only suffered damaged pride ... on a very low level)?

[Sir_Russell]

You are not the first or the last to be lied too. Happens in all walks of life. You study, you practice, you learn from each mistake till you find the one that is right for you.

Old saying "Nothing ventured, Nothing gained". Don't jump for the first one that say okay maybe and set yourself rules of conduct if she violates them you move on.

Russell

[Alex Bragi]

...I, on the other hand was fascinated by it. In view of this failed experiment, I wondered if the internet route was doomed to failure every time.

Isn't every relationship different regardless of how it comes to be? I mean, whether it's online or not, there's no tried and true formula for finding true love and a successful, happy relationship, is there? It's all a game of hope and chance. :)

Warbaby, beautifully say as always. :)

[cadence]

I am an online sub, and am still relatively new to the whole thing.
I have not had any bad experiences, but have had many difficulties with the whole concept of being an online sub.
I do have an online Master but, he is not a Dom in the sense that I need him to be. Without getting into the hows and whys of things, for now we offer each other what we need, and are satisfied with that.

I can go into a chat room and call anyone at that moment in time Master or Sir, but in retrospect, it is only for that moment, sometimes I get the need to play and that satiates whatever itch I am having.
To be able to be an online sub for anyone, I would need to get to know the other person on a much more personal level, and for me that takes awhile to do.

I have tried the Dom/sub relationship online, but cannot seem to connect with anyone.
I have had many Dom's task me first and offer to be my Master without ever getting to know me or understand how I click. Then again I may misconstrue myself and I could be just a very complicated person in general.

So to sum up my thoughts, to have or to be an online sub, you need the connection, and communication to achieve what you want, and as Sir_Russell stated you need to have limits and conditions discussed beforehand.

You had a negative experience, but you can learn from that and move on to more positive ones.

[StillBehindBlueEyes]

May I say how impressed I am with your thoughtful replies, and illustrations of how you live them. Thank-you all.

But are there no bad experiences? Is mine really the worst (I only suffered damaged pride ... on a very low level)?


Oh yes I think almost everyone has bad experiences my first master decided because I wouldn't turn real life I was not what he wanted and he dropped me in a single day. I'd allowed myself to invest way to much in a man I'd never met. But now that it's been six months and I'm over the grieving I know I'd would probably do it again.

I'd just be a bit more careful in my inital discussions about my need to stay cyber to protect my marriage. I went into the second very clear about my limits and when it ended (because of my need to work exclusivly on my vanilla writing) it ended peacefully. A parting in M/s but still friends.

I'd suggest Sir Russell's questions to anyone thinking about going into a relationship. The more you know about each other the better you can mesh as M/s.

Sbbe

[ceegee{Benz}]

You really need to get to know the person 1st before you enter any kind of relationship...online or Realtime.

Benz and I have been speaking online now for nearly 3 years, for 2 of those years we sat and talked with one another via msn and email and a different chatroom and occassionally via cam.
Last year we went 1 step further.....our love efor each other just increased 10 fold and in Aug I offered the greatest gift one can ever do..my submission which he accepted. My collar arrived in the post in time for my birthday...and via confernce call i placed the collar round my neck...but was Benz hands that was there....if you know what i mean.
Benz flew to England for christmas and new year and the trip just totally confirmed what we already knew....smiles. In fact made us stronger and more determinded.

We talked every single day via conferenace and vidio call...by telephone and by text message. not a day goes by without any form of voice communication. And when Benz is away..... we can talk 4-5 times a day every day..when he is at home....lmao the cams are never off...he sees what i am doing at all times....as if he is actually here.

Come end of the year though...things are changing. Myself and my children will be emigrating to Australia to be with him...and so I can rightfully take myself at his left side

cg

[cariad]

Hmmmmmmm - wonderful ceegee.

Big big smiles.

cariad

[ceegee{Benz}]

smiles ty carid

the way I look at it is that he is away from home...and is work related that is how I cope.
I am lucky that I was born into the navy and one gets used to their men/women being away for long periods of time....my father ex navy now...kids father is navy....is the only life I have ever known. So I have the added advantage of knowing how to cope and how to deal with long distance. Altho saying that....it is still hard. Benz goes to work...i go to bed and vice versa.... chuckles is like he works the night shift while i sleeping lol

[TomOfSweden]

You really need to get to know the person 1st before you enter any kind of relationship...online or Realtime.


I'm not really into the on-line scene and I don't judge at all. I did some Internet dating for a while and found a couple of problems with it. It's not a very good way to get to know a person, is it? I personally, suck at assesing a persons character without looking into their eyes when they say it. I mean, up close and in person. Just reading somebodies opinion really doesn't tell me their relationship with the opinion.

I spoke to a girl for about a year. I wasn't really pursuing her. Mostly just some on-line flirting. We seemed to like each other and had a lot in common. She had some pictures up and she looked really good in them. I'm a physical kind of guy. I need physical attration for it to work for me. Quite by chance I met her at a party....jeeez she was aestheticaly challenged. Which is another problem.

Not to mention stories I've heard of people out-right lying.

The thing is that I would never invest time to build an on-line relationship if I hadn't allready met the person. We know we are compatible, ie we've allready had sex at least once. Sex is like that. I don't think I'm unique. Talking about it, just doesn't cut it. I think we can all agree that sex is important. Unless we've experienced each other sexually we just haven't got a clue about so many things.

Unless the plan is to keep it in fantasy land off-course...but that's not my thing. The on-line flirting would for me just be step one. A step I'd prefer to keep as short as possible.

What I'm trying to say is that I don't really get it. Even after reading the posts made here, I still don't get why keeping it going for years without meeting? Isn't that the goal?

edit: ...and even if both people told only the truth, are really soul mates, find each other phsically attractive doesn't mean in the least that they will stand each others company for any length of time. Our annoying qualities need to be experienced in person.

[MMI]

Thank-you, Tom:

"What I'm trying to say is that I don't really get it. Even after reading the posts made here, I'm still none the wiser what it's for." I think I am a bit wiser now. Online is yet another way to develop a relationship, whether it blossom or wither in time. If it withers, it was likely to have done so in real life too. Just like any other relationship it will stand or fall on its own merits. I accept that.

But Tom made another point, only once referred to by anyone else (Warbaby), and then only in passing: the sex. (OK, I think for Sir Russell, sex is so obvious, it's a given!) This is a BDSM site, so doesn't sex come into it? Control <--> sex <--> submission.

For Tom, sex is fundamental and I can see that too. This was an unformed thought that partly prompted my original post - if the sex isn't real, then it's just masturbation: if the control isn't real, then there isn't really any true submission. For people like Tom, then, an online sub can never be ideal.

Sir Russell disagrees. Or rather, he differs from Tom, and disagrees with me. He is happy with RL and OL. He says his OL control is real, and I infer the sex is satisfactory too. (Is there a delicate way to say that? I mean no offence.) And this is achieved by hard vetting so that only suitable subs who are totally honest and whom he trusts are accepted.

I think I am coming to the view that OL relationships can be good - wonderful even - but are always less than RL Ceegee, for example, will fulfil her relationship when she at last reaches Oz. Sbbe and cadence use OL to fill gaps in RL (I hope I understood that right).

But OL does something that RL doesn't do - at least, not nearly so easily. It allows people to gain experiences denied to them elsewhere. There's no way, for example that I can have a real life BDSM experience, but I can look for it here. Thus, like sbbe and cadence, I have a gap in my real life that OL may satisfy, and, clearly, that is what an online sub is for.

[ceegee{Benz}]

smiles....for part our S&m relationship boils down to powerful mind control....the Dominance over another thru the mind. altho I DO miss the physical interaction (and is something this lilone really needs)...but that will to wait for now. But one has to also remember that I am still my Master's slave....regardless where I am in the world and everything I do OL or RT still reflects on him

[TomOfSweden]

smiles....for part our S&m relationship boils down to powerful mind control....the Dominance over another thru the mind. altho I DO miss the physical interaction (and is something this lilone really needs)...but that will to wait for now. But one has to also remember that I am still my Master's slave....regardless where I am in the world and everything I do OL or RT still reflects on him

I'm sorry if I seemed judgemental. I'm not really. I just want to understand. If I understand your situation correctly, OL isn't and wasn't your first choice. It's simply down to it not being practicly doable for you to meet the love in your life at all any other way, right? So it's not a question of you prefering OL, but simply down to available options. Which is a completly different bag of tricks. You have met Benz in reality right?

[tessa]

First off even though on line it is still real life.


Perfect, perfecter and more perfectly stated, Warbaby.

I live with my husband, so aside from the advice and counsel (and a smidge of fun, flirty chat) that I get online, I am living my D/s experience up close and personal, which is more complicated than I could have imagined. My husband would say it's even more so than that.

I realize my next comment isn't exactly the answer sought, but I'm gonna go ahead and say that meeting my new friends here online has been a very real experience for me. That these new relationships aren't face-to-face ('cept for Red 'cause we live kinda close (love that girl!), doesn't take away that I have been influenced and touched in no other way than real and personal and meaningful. But I can also understand why it's difficult to understand just how that can be.

MMI, you are impressed by all these thoughtful replies? Stick around for a few and you'll see that this is just the way it is here. It's so great! :)

[ceegee{Benz}]

I'm sorry if I seemed judgemental. I'm not really. I just want to understand. If I understand your situation correctly, OL isn't and wasn't your first choice. It's simply down to it not being practicly doable for you to meet the love in your life at all any other way, right? So it's not a question of you prefering OL, but simply down to available options. Which is a completly different bag of tricks. You have met Benz in reality right?

yes we have met in RT...this xmas just gone he flew over for a whole month

[DungeonMaster6]

Don't you just love the no b.s. incites Warbaby brings to these discussions?

As someone who has been in the scene for many years, and who has been married to someone who I love more every day, it really has become a balancing act. My wife knew of my lifestyle when she married me, and she agreed that she would not object to me playing with another sub, as long as she knew about it. No sneaking around! That means in r/l or on the internet.

Like Warbaby said, even if it is on-line, a relationship is still real. The internet allows us to have a relationship with someone on another continent, but it's all really a mind game. Since the mind is the most devious of sex organs, it allows us to do just about anything.

But we must be careful. A breakup can be devastating as SBBE has stated. With that in mind, yes I like to role play as evidenced by the two I'm involved with now. However, I am not going to risk my marriage by getting involved in a serious D/s relationship with anyone, either in r/l or in cyber.

[MMI]

I've EVERY intention of sticking around, tessa, and to meeting you all eventually.

:)

[Warbaby1943]

Thank-you, Tom:

"What I'm trying to say is that I don't really get it. Even after reading the posts made here, I'm still none the wiser what it's for." I think I am a bit wiser now. Online is yet another way to develop a relationship, whether it blossom or wither in time. If it withers, it was likely to have done so in real life too. Just like any other relationship it will stand or fall on its own merits. I accept that.

But Tom made another point, only once referred to by anyone else (Warbaby), and then only in passing: the sex. (OK, I think for Sir Russell, sex is so obvious, it's a given!) This is a BDSM site, so doesn't sex come into it? Control <--> sex <--> submission.

For Tom, sex is fundamental and I can see that too. This was an unformed thought that partly prompted my original post - if the sex isn't real, then it's just masturbation: if the control isn't real, then there isn't really any true submission. For people like Tom, then, an online sub can never be ideal.

Sir Russell disagrees. Or rather, he differs from Tom, and disagrees with me. He is happy with RL and OL. He says his OL control is real, and I infer the sex is satisfactory too. (Is there a delicate way to say that? I mean no offence.) And this is achieved by hard vetting so that only suitable subs who are totally honest and whom he trusts are accepted.

I think I am coming to the view that OL relationships can be good - wonderful even - but are always less than RL Ceegee, for example, will fulfil her relationship when she at last reaches Oz. Sbbe and cadence use OL to fill gaps in RL (I hope I understood that right).

But OL does something that RL doesn't do - at least, not nearly so easily. It allows people to gain experiences denied to them elsewhere. There's no way, for example that I can have a real life BDSM experience, but I can look for it here. Thus, like sbbe and cadence, I have a gap in my real life that OL may satisfy, and, clearly, that is what an online sub is for.

For some, and I don't think I am alone, BDSM does not have to involve sex. It can be more about submission and control then sex. If it s all about sex for some then that is all well and good for them. It doesn't make it wrong for others where no actual sex is involved. We are all different remember.

Some still don't seem to get the concept that on line is still happening in your real life. Your not dreaming it and looking at it from afar, you are living it. Every single minute of it is real. The emotions, the feelings, the submissions, the control, and especially the love are all very real and happening in real life.

You asked for reasons for on line relationships. I and others have tried to point out some. Though you may not agree with the reasons given, they are valid to those offering them.

[TomOfSweden]

Hey wait a minute. The expression RL as in "Real Life" is just a joke phrase that has entered common word usage on the Internet. It just means anything that isn't on-line. It doesn't in the least imply that life on-line isn't real. That's part of the joke.

Taking jokes litteraly is um....a bit special...Or maybe someone got a humour tumour.

I'm sure nobody thinks that the people posting aren't real people. I promise you all that I am very much a real person, and anything I do is really real. For real.

[Warbaby1943]

Hey wait a minute. The expression RL as in "Real Life" is just a joke phrase that has entered common word usage on the Internet. It just means anything that isn't on-line. It doesn't in the least imply that life on-line isn't real. That's part of the joke.

Taking jokes litteraly is um....a bit special...Or maybe someone got a humour tumour.

I'm sure nobody thinks that the people posting aren't real people. I promise you all that I am very much a real person, and anything I do is really real. For real.

I don't see Real Life or on line life as being a joking matter which ever you want to use. Nor do I see the joke of using it to define anything. I do see a definite destination between real life meaning to have D/s 24/7 or even casual and on line life meaning by some that it is less than real life experience.

I always thought I was fairly good at getting jokes but if this is a joke it may need explaining to me.

[TomOfSweden]

BDSM does not have to involve sex. It can be more about submission and control then sex. If it s all about sex for some then that is all well and good for them.

Now it's down to semantics. I will argue that BDSM is always and only about sex. It may just be that I have a wider definition of sex. It can be sex even though private parts aren't deposited into fleshy cavities. Sex for me happens first and fore most in the head. I do think that a slave submitting is in every way a sexual act, on- or off-line.

My problem is the reciept. How do I know the communication is working. It's hard enough even with two people in the same room. I had comunication issues with my ex-wife even after six and a half years of marriage. It may be that I have some serious inadequesies in comunication....but yeah...you know... to continue using the expression.... Maybe I'm not unique.

Me personally, over the net I tend to project a lot. Fill in the blanks with wishfull thinking. Since I know I have this tendancy, I fight it. But I often notice it sneaking in.

Comunication is always extremly hard in any setting. Why make it any more difficult?

[TomOfSweden]

I don't see Real Life or on line life as being a joking matter which ever you want to use. Nor do I see the joke of using it to define anything. I do see a definite destination between real life meaning to have D/s 24/7 or even casual and on line life meaning by some that it is less than real life experience.

I always thought I was fairly good at getting jokes but if this is a joke it may need explaining to me.

It comes from the very old pre-Internet expression of "not having a life", which the computer nerds of old where accused of not having. It is based on a joke whether you like it or not. Here's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_life) the wiki.

I promise that the expression doesn't imply that people with on-line romances aren't having real romances.

[Warbaby1943]

It comes from the very old pre-Internet expression of "not having a life", which the computer nerds of old where accused of not having. It is based on a joke whether you like it or not. Here's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_life) the wiki.

I promise that the expression doesn't imply that people with on-line romances aren't having real romances.
Followed the link and still fail to see the joke or any reference to a joke. I guess we all have different senses of humor, not to mention opinions.

[TomOfSweden]

Followed the link and still fail to see the joke or any reference to a joke. I guess we all have different senses of humor, not to mention opinions.

I didn't say it was my humour. I just happen to know how the expression came to be, even though it isn't covered in the wiki. The wiki aptly explains it's usages



Online

The abbreviation RL stands for "real life", with the meaning "not on the Internet." For example, one can speak of meeting in RL someone whom one has met in chat or on an Internet forum, or of an inability to use the Internet for a time due to "RL problems".


See? It doesn't imply anything other than that RL is not on the Internet. There's no implicit judgement made about people using the Internet.

[wolfs_lilgirl]

it just feels right, and cuz i dont think i could ever find... any person like my sir.. near!. and i couldnt imagine.. what would i do if i didnt had him!

[Warbaby1943]

I didn't say it was my humour. I just happen to know how the expression came to be, even though it isn't covered in the wiki. The wiki aptly explains it's usages



See? It doesn't imply anything other than that RL is not on the Internet. There's no implicit judgement made about using the Internet.
I read it already from your link. You implied or out right said it was joke. I still don't see the joke whether it is your humor or not, I see no joke even implied in these definitions.

Since we are well off topic talking about a "joke," or lack of one, I won't bother with any more replies unless I feel it address the subject at hand which is "What's An Internet Sub For?" To me my sub is part of my real life and fills a gap of what is missing in my off line life. And she fills it nicely with love and submission that makes us both happy. Bottom line, that is all that is important, being happy with your circumstances.

[Sir_Russell]

I agree with you both Warbaby and Tom, a while ago a bright sub said she objected to the term RL and suggested F2F which can be taken as either face to face or flesh to flesh.

There are those that meet only to play (Tops and bottoms) little exchange of themselves and not much of a comitment involved. To me that is fantasy and actually a lot less of life then on the internet between 2 people that care about each and live the life through tasks. Allowing the Dom to assist in the sub growth and the sub finding the joy of being controlled.

Russell

[MMI]

OK ... I agree the past few posts drifted off topic a bit - but heigh-ho - we in this site should never worry about a little deviation, should we? And I wanted to provoke debate.

I agree with Tom, sex is prime when it comes to BDSM, but the form it takes might not be obvious. Sex is a GOOD thing and is prime in ordinary life too. It's just that in BDSM, sex has a broader range. And yes, it is mostly mental. Sex without the psychological aspect, even in real life, is animal lust. Possibly, BDSM without a sexual or a caring attitude is simply torture/humiliation.

So which is cyber sex? Is it just obtaining basic relief by wanking to an erotic picture or scene or by having some sub talk dirty ... or by making the sub masturbate him/herself? Or is it something else, fulfilling. arousing and completely free of any need to exchange body fluids, or do anything else with them?

Warbaby, I do agree with your sentiments. I simply feel that BDSM is sex focused. Even making a sub wear specific clothes ... the "whoelsome swimsuits" mentioned elsewhere, for example ... can be sexual, by deliberately making her (in that case) suppress her sexuality. I could be turned on by making someone do that.

[Guest 91108]

it just feels right, and cuz i dont think i could ever find... any person like my sir.. near!. and i couldnt imagine.. what would i do if i didnt had him!

Smiles... that is as it should be.

I've said on other threads ... one's perception and how they interpret things makes it become reality. It's not for others to judge.

If we were to judge for example.. I've seen some relationships on this board and have wondered how they can glue together is beyond me. so my perception doesn't influece that one.

If trust is an issue to being a workable online.. then you first must trust yourself before you can place trust in another. Then you start with what they have said is reality until you learn or are shown otherwise.
If we doubted everyone and everything we come across what would actually be accomplished on any day ?

Be content in the knowledge that what the Dom says is being done, carried out, proof if she is willing and let her respond appropriately.....
Is a trust given.. not trust earned. Is a courtesy we extend to others until such time as we are shown it is draining or negative.

ALL My opinons and how i do things.

[TomOfSweden]

Bottom line, that is all that is important, being happy with your circumstances.

I'll drink to that.

I did some more thinking, and I've distilled my question a smidgeon.

To me chosing slavery in the BDSM world is a very serious and deep comitment based on love. From your earlier posts Warbaby, I'm guessing that you have the same view.

Maybe I'm a superficial crud now, but how do you know it's love without ever meeting? Isn't love a to a large extent a very physical thing?

I had a discussion with my slave about this and she is a self-proffesed "expert of Internet dating". She's done it a lot, way more than me. And she said, (which I whole-heartedly agree with) "No matter how much and long you've talked to somebody on-line. Finally meeting them IRL is like meeting a new person".

This is the whole essance of what I've been trying to say. How can two people have that level of commitment, trust and love without knowing how they will be physically. Words is only one of many human ways of comunicating.

I'm hoping that this is just one more thing I need to learn, that I can blame my naive youth for not understanding. I am a nosey bastard aren't I...?

[Warbaby1943]

So which is cyber sex? Is it just obtaining basic relief by wanking to an erotic picture or scene or by having some sub talk dirty ... or by making the sub masturbate him/herself? Or is it something else, fulfilling. arousing and completely free of any need to exchange body fluids, or do anything else with them?

Warbaby, I do agree with your sentiments. I simply feel that BDSM is sex focused. Even making a sub wear specific clothes ... the "whoelsome swimsuits" mentioned elsewhere, for example ... can be sexual, by deliberately making her (in that case) suppress her sexuality. I could be turned on by making someone do that.

I'm not going to try to answer which or what cyber sex is. That could be a whole new topic.

I want to make it clear that I am not saying that BDSM is not sexual or, as you say, sex focused. I have always known, felt and believed that to be true. I am saying that even though it is on line and no actual sex is involved between the two partners does not make the submission, control, or BDSM activities any less real. I just don't know how to say it any clearer.

[MMI]

That's fine, Warbaby. And I think it's an ideal note to end on.

Thanks everyone ...

<How do you close this thread???>

[ceegee{Benz}]

ask one of the mods to lock it

[cariad]

MMI, I am not going to close this thread, that is a tool which we use as little as possible, since it disempowers members. It is possible that other members may have other thoughts they wish to add to it, either now or in the future, and if not it will just start to sink.

Thanks for starting an interesting thread...

cariad

[Sir_Russell]

I very much agree with cariad on all counts. You started a good thread that will teach a lot to many new and old members. Don't feel that you have to answer every response but keep a hand in, and be proud of a good job.

Russell

[Warbaby1943]

Oh I totally agree with cariad and Sir_Russell. I see no reason to end the thread. I'm sure others have ideas and maybe they will eventually see and contribute to this. Nobody's opinion is wrong as long as they believe in what they are saying. Some here want threads with more substance in them then the fun and games and this sure qualifies as one of those types of threads.

[ceegee{Benz}]

I still want to know what this cyber sex thing is...............

[Warbaby1943]

I still want to know what this cyber sex thing is...............

If you're serious why not start a new thread and phrase your question so it may draw some interest.

[fantassy]

"No matter how much and long you've talked to somebody on-line. Finally meeting them IRL is like meeting a new person".

Perhaps this is where the disconnect is occuring in your understanding of online relationships. You are basing your judgments on the premise that the relationship will eventually become F2F (thanks Sir Russell). I really don't care if Brosco F2F were like a different person (which I don't concede) because I am having a relationship with online Brosco. And online Brosco fulfills my needs. He listens to my woes. He celebrates my triumphs with me. He lets me vent my frustrations. We debate, we tease, we pick each other's brains. He is there to greet me at the end of every day. We are able to complete let our emotional communications shield drop (perhaps because the nature of online in itself provides a kinds of shield), something which I have trouble doing F2F. As pointed out, much of sex is mental, so the mental connection and D/S which occurs during our sex play makes it a fantastic sexual experience. After a year of this online relationship, I can only say good things. It allowed our mental and emotional compatibility to be the centerpiece of the relationship rather than physical attraction. In F2F, issues would arise than might make us incompatible, but online they don't matter. Example: he smokes a lot - I'm allergic to smoke; he drinks more than I think is wise; my apartment is a pigsty - he likes an orderly place; I am a workaholic - he's semi-retired. The key to an online relationship is compatibility and you cannot discover you are truly compatible unless you are intellectually and emotionally honest with each other.

I guess to be completely honest in this post, I do have to mention one need online relationships cannot fulfill - and that is the need for human touch. The mere comfort we derive from being warm bare skin to skin cannot be acheived online. But hey, nothing in life is perfect.

fantassy

[cariad]

I really don't care if Brosco F2F were like a different person (which I don't concede) because I am having a relationship with online Brosco.

Wow - it is so obvious when you put it like that. A great post fantassy, and has certainly given me food for thought.

cariad

[Warbaby1943]

Perhaps this is where the disconnect is occuring in your understanding of online relationships. You are basing your judgments on the premise that the relationship will eventually become F2F (thanks Sir Russell). I really don't care if Brosco F2F were like a different person (which I don't concede) because I am having a relationship with online Brosco. And online Brosco fulfills my needs. He listens to my woes. He celebrates my triumphs with me. He lets me vent my frustrations. We debate, we tease, we pick each other's brains. He is there to greet me at the end of every day. We are able to complete let our emotional communications shield drop (perhaps because the nature of online in itself provides a kinds of shield), something which I have trouble doing F2F. As pointed out, much of sex is mental, so the mental connection and D/S which occurs during our sex play makes it a fantastic sexual experience. After a year of this online relationship, I can only say good things. It allowed our mental and emotional compatibility to be the centerpiece of the relationship rather than physical attraction. In F2F, issues would arise than might make us incompatible, but online they don't matter. Example: he smokes a lot - I'm allergic to smoke; he drinks more than I think is wise; my apartment is a pigsty - he likes an orderly place; I am a workaholic - he's semi-retired. The key to an online relationship is compatibility and you cannot discover you are truly compatible unless you are intellectually and emotionally honest with each other.

I guess to be completely honest in this post, I do have to mention one need online relationships cannot fulfill - and that is the need for human touch. The mere comfort we derive from being warm bare skin to skin cannot be acheived online. But hey, nothing in life is perfect.

fantassy

Thank you fantassy. So much of what you say I live.

[mkemse]

Maybe I am wrong, but is wouldseem to me the difference in a D/s relationship R/T vs. R/L is the difference between day and night, you can't compare the 2, they are 2 different thgings, one is fantasy the other reality

[Sir_Russell]

mkemse I agree partially and I think you actually found the point. They are both real but also very different. F2F also differs in 2 many ways, those that use it as sex play and those that live it.

I have found that F2F is not just my strong suit it is the only way for me to live and enjoy the life. In my old age I guess I am over just playing too.

Those that find what they need in any of these are to be congratulated each takes a certain amount of work to do well.

[fantassy]

they are 2 different thgings, one is fantasy the other reality

I agree they are different, but I disagree that o/l is fantasy and f2f is reality. I think the amount of fantasy v. reality in ANY relationship varies depending on the persons involved. Surely you have had friends whose perception of their f2f significant other was largely based on their fantasy of what they wanted the person to be or the fantasy the f2f person projected, whether intentionally or subconsciously. Moreover, it is wrong to assume that all online are merely roleplayers.

As to the D/S in particular, again what matters is the compatibility. Some subs need to be grabbed by the hair occasionally to feel submissive - online obviously wouldn't suit that sort of dom. Others get their pleasure from voluntarily giving up control - online is more likely to work.

Neither is better or worse, one just suits some people and the other suits other people.

fantassy

[Guest 91108]

fantassy , I like the thoughts and direction of both your posts.
This is how i think as well. Those who give a false sense of themselves are not going to have a very successful relationship in either role as they can't maintain it with consistency and eventually it will break. Many of us have seen just such situations.

[Warbaby1943]

Again different strokes for different folks and again the key seems to be honesty and compatibility. On line to me is no fantasy by the way. It works for us and that is all that matters, isn't it?

[Sir_Russell]

Warbaby again it is all real for those who truly live it.

Russell

[Aussiegirl1]

I too want to add that just because my relationship is online, this in no way means it is a fantasy! I do not role play or pretend, every thing I say or do is real. I can understand how someone who has never had an online relationship might think they are all play, but for many of us they are as real as any other relationship in our lives.

I agree too that it really does depend on how compatable you are with your partner and how well you cope without that physical presence of another during play. For me, it works, but I know others who just can't get their head around what it means.

Back to the original question, what an Internet sub if for? for me, it is the same as what any sub is for. My submission is real, my feelings are real, my time I put into the relationship is real. The difference lies in the way the relationship is run.

I know there are people who think online is only for games, and that is fine, but I hope through discussions like this one, everyone can get a bit more understanding of how real and fulfilling an online relationship can be.