A bit of contradiction

[nk_lion]

Is it just me, or is the whole control of power thing in a BDSM relationship contradictory?

Every sub (hopefully) on this board has chosen to be a sub, or slave; some have limits that can be pushed by whoever is the their dom, but in the end its their choice how much power a dom really has.

If it gets to a point where a sub is being pushed to do stuff that he/she does not want to do, then that would be equivalent to an abusive relationship, wouldn't it?

Anyhow, it's just something that I've been thinking about for a few days, so I thought I'd get your opinions about it.

[Stone]

That is a very true statement and if a dom is doing something the sub does not want to do or like its the subs responcabilty to tell the dom so after all none of us are mind readers

[Sir_Russell]

nk_8950 the power exchange is not about can I force her to do something she doesn't want to do. It is about the fact that she trusts me enough to do things just for me. It is a two way exchange, and I think that many people miss this fact, she feels that she is safe and secure with me. She knows that I will move heaven and earth to help her, that is my gift of power to her. Her gift to me is that she trusts me to take her where she wants to go or needs to go.

Yes there are some sick people hiding in the life but then they are hiding in every walk of life. It is also not not my call as to what kink is right or wrong, just what is right for me.

Russell

[gloombunny]

As far as I'm concerned, it's not a contradiction, it's the whole point. I don't want to just submit once and be done with it; I like that I'm choosing submission over and over by remaining in the relationship.

[cariad]

What lovely posts Sir Russell and NatalieD. I have heard this point explored before but think those are two of the most elegant and helpful responses to it.

cariad

[nk_lion]

Thanks for your post NatalieD and Sir Rusell.

I'm a bit confused in what you're trying to say here.




Yes there are some sick people hiding in the life but then they are hiding in every walk of life. It is also not not my call as to what kink is right or wrong, just what is right for me.

Russell

[Dragon's muse]

On another board, i have as a signature line

"He doesn't force me to my knees.
He inspires me to go there."

that says it all for me.

[gagged_Louise]

I can just agree with you Dragon's Muse, though you've got longer and deeper experience than me. It's not a simply military command relation, it's about trust, and no sub in his/her right mind would accept that the Dom/me razes down their hard limits without flinching and damages them just to demonstrate the total power trip (this happens in fantasies of course, kidnapping/rape and the like, but fantasies and real brute reality are two different things)

I wouldn't expect Mistress to order things that would hurt me bad or put me in irrevocable grave danger, but I do expect her to push me deeper into submission, bring out the slave she wants to see, and to some extent impose her wishes on me. Slave louise handcuffs herself and gives Her the key, to keep for as long as She wishes.

[Sir_Russell]

nk_8950 just trying to say that whatever blows wind up your skirt is fine with that is your kink. I choose my kinks for me and to an extent my sub/slave.

Russell

[Rhabbi]

nk_8950,

One thing you seem to be missing is mutual consent. A sub is in control of a realtionship because the sub defines the limits and sets the boudaries. Just because we Doms push these limits does not mean that the sub has to accept that. And if a relationship goes into abuse, it would have probably ended up ther even if it had not started with BDSM.

[Warbaby1943]

To push her limits and her to submission is her gift to me. To know her limits and allow her to submit by and within them is my gift to her.

I would no sooner abuse her or my power over her than I would commit any other act I would consider disgusting. To be clear here, I consider nothing we do or anyone else does disgusting if those acts are mutually acceptable to the parties involved.

[Rhabbi]

To be clear here, I consider nothing we do or anyone else does disgusting if those acts are mutually acceptable to the parties involved.

Well said

[DrGeordie]

nk_8950 the power exchange is not about can I force her to do something she doesn't want to do. It is about the fact that she trusts me enough to do things just for me. It is a two way exchange, and I think that many people miss this fact, she feels that she is safe and secure with me. She knows that I will move heaven and earth to help her, that is my gift of power to her. Her gift to me is that she trusts me to take her where she wants to go or needs to go.


Wise words as always Sir_Russell. The idea that someone trusts you and wants to please you so much that they will submit to having their limits challenged just to please you must be just the most amazing feeling. The second part just resonates with me. A good sub gives so much of themselves willingly to their Dom. But to me it's just as important for a sub to know implicitly that when they need something solid to hold on to, their master will be right there beside them.

Also, Dragons Muse

"He doesn't force me to my knees.
He inspires me to go there."

that's just beautiful

[nk_lion]

I guess this just shows how much I've yet to learn. Thanks everyone.

[Mishka]

That's what we're here for.

[Ozme52]

Is it just me, or is the whole control of power thing in a BDSM relationship contradictory?

Every sub (hopefully) on this board has chosen to be a sub, or slave; some have limits that can be pushed by whoever is the their dom, but in the end its their choice how much power a dom really has.

If it gets to a point where a sub is being pushed to do stuff that he/she does not want to do, then that would be equivalent to an abusive relationship, wouldn't it?

Anyhow, it's just something that I've been thinking about for a few days, so I thought I'd get your opinions about it.


The fact that the sub/slave chooses to be a sub or a slave would indeed be contradictory if BDSM were about "taking" control... but as you're beginning to see from virtually all the responses, BDSM is actually about "giving" control.

You were working from a conceptual definition of BDSM that is incorrectly perceived and 'taught' by those outside of the lifestyle.

[ceegee{Benz}]

and those who think they know all but really dont...those who steriotype the lifestyle because they think that is what bdsm is...those who would run a mile if they actually got to see how much bdsm involves and that it isnt all about whips and chains and rope but it goes much much deeper than that.

Is all about the love...the commitment to one another...the paths we take together...the mistakes we make and learn from them...the guidance we take from each other to help us become who we truely are.

A sub/slave should never in their life be made to do something they do not feel comfy with...and if their master does this then he is not true to the lifestyle we all love and cherish so much (he is also abusing his/her soulmate)

[DrGeordie]

those who would run a mile if they actually got to see how much bdsm involves and that it isnt all about whips and chains and rope but it goes much much deeper than that.


Thanks for putting that in words. This is a critical difference between the stereotype and the reality that I'm only just learning about. It's something that comes across time and again from the pages of these forums. The subs give a great part of themselves to their Dom and this manifests, at least partially, in offering their bodies to the physical activities we all love. But the counterpoint to that is that the subs here all seem to be blessed with Doms who would move heaven and earth for them if required.


The fact that the sub/slave chooses to be a sub or a slave would indeed be contradictory if BDSM were about "taking" control... but as you're beginning to see from virtually all the responses, BDSM is actually about "giving" control.

That's it condensed perfectly into one sentence. It's about giving.

[Benz{ceegee}]

and those who think they know all but really dont...those who steriotype the lifestyle because they think that is what bdsm is...those who would run a mile if they actually got to see how much bdsm involves and that it isnt all about whips and chains and rope but it goes much much deeper than that.

Is all about the love...the commitment to one another...the paths we take together...the mistakes we make and learn from them...the guidance we take from each other to help us become who we truely are.

A sub/slave should never in their life be made to do something they do not feel comfy with...and if their master does this then he is not true to the lifestyle we all love and cherish so much (he is also abusing his/her soulmate)

Smiles my adorable kitten.

In my eyes its the journey that cg & I chose. Its all about giving and recieving from both sides.

The key is looking deep inside the one you adore and love, knowing my slaves every move or thought before she makes them.

As far as asking her to do something she would not do. Thats impossible I took the time to know cg before I asked her to do anything thats why she submitted totally to myself knowing that as her Master she would wish to do anything for Me.

The differance is quite simple we took over 2 years in learning about each other before we became a couple in the lifestyle we love..

The key is I became her friend before her Master. Thats our secert whats yours?

smile

Benz proud Owner of ceegee...

[Warbaby1943]

The differance is quite simple we took over 2 years in learning about each other before we became a couple in the lifestyle we love..

The key is I became her friend before her Master. Thats our secert whats yours?

smile

Benz proud Owner of ceegee...
That is the secret if you want a successful relationship and one that will last the test of time. One other aspect that should go without saying is always have a great line of communication open. Life's everyday problems must be addressed as well as the added responsibilities of the D/s commitment.

[Benz{ceegee}]

That is the secret if you want a successful relationship and one that will last the test of time. One other aspect that should go without saying is always have a great line of communication open. Life's everyday problems must be addressed as well as the added responsibilities of the D/s commitment.

Well said..

[Eponine]

"He doesn't force me to my knees.
He inspires me to go there."

nk_8950 the power exchange is not about can I force her to do something she doesn't want to do. It is about the fact that she trusts me enough to do things just for me. It is a two way exchange, and I think that many people miss this fact, she feels that she is safe and secure with me. She knows that I will move heaven and earth to help her, that is my gift of power to her. Her gift to me is that she trusts me to take her where she wants to go or needs to go.

Yes there are some sick people hiding in the life but then they are hiding in every walk of life. It is also not not my call as to what kink is right or wrong, just what is right for me.

Russell

PERFECT!!!

[xadianx]

It's all about trust, the more trust there is between them the less limits the sub will have.