A question for the female subs???

A question to all you wonderful sub women.

If you took bondage, bdsm the paraphernalia that goes with it and titles such as Master and slave out of the equation would you're sexual fantasies be that much different than most of you're vanilla friends??

When I have asked my straight vanilla female friends about their fantasies most of them explain a scenario where a tall dark and handsome masterful stranger carries them off to ravage their helpless bodies.

To be rendered helpless and fucked senseless by an attractive stranger is by far the most popular fantasy.

It seems to me that most women are deep down sexually submissive they just don't pursue their fantasies or elaborate on them with all the trappings of bdsm but essentially they are submissive.

Of course there are the boring fantasies that many women talk about.

One friend said to me her fantasy was having sex with her current boyfriend in a room with mirrors on the ceiling and another with a stranger in a thunderstorm very very pedestrian me thinks.

It's almost like these girls get turned on by interior design and weather systems.

And you think I'm strange:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by lucyboy

It seems to me that most women are deep down sexually submissive they just don't pursue their fantasies or elaborate on them with all the trappings of bdsm but essentially they are submissive.

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Though I don't think I have encountered as many Dommes as it sounds you have, sometimes I think the same thing, Lucyboy. For example, even the mistress I had last year, naturally dominant and practicing for 20 yrs (according to her), enjoyed being having her husband run things (but not to the extreme in a M/s way).

But, now that I think back- I will tell you that she did have a male submissive before me for a few years. From her descriptions of their time together, I believe she loved and was attracted to him very much. I don't think they had the wrestling-rough-and-tumble sex you want, but I believe they had sex. I remember her describing with admiration his strong, muscular body and the thrill of having power over it.

So... I read through your other thread and I wanted to offer some useful words.... or at least understanding.

I think, in a way, it is easier for me, as a female, to be submissive (in bed or out)- it fits more easily into an accepted vision of the female: weak, helpless, etc... So, I feel for you. I have met some Dommes who only "play" with male subs and it has nothing to do with sex ever.

I wish I had some advice for you... but I do believe, as I've stated here before, that everyone can find their fairy tale, as I (a generally cynical person) have found mine.

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Originally Posted by lucyboy

If you took bondage, bdsm the paraphernalia that goes with it and titles such as Master and slave out of the equation would you're sexual fantasies be that much different than most of you're vanilla friends??

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To actually answer your question-
I can live without the material paraphernilia, although it's a lot of fun!
It would be impossible for me to take away "Master" and "slave" in a sexual or nonsexual fantasy about a relationship- I could take away the words, but never the concept.

So... I think my fantasies are much different and always have been (since I was 9)... I crave the domination and control from another so much, usually manifested and exerted in humiliating ways- that is my real turn-on-

to be made to verbalize that i am that person's slave, property, owned

to have a collar put on my neck

to be completely restrained helpless while the other person cums or pees on my body/ face

to be made to serve in nonsexual ways

For example- when I was 11, I had a fantasy that the teacher made me the slave of this one other popular girl. I had to clean her desk, carry her books, etc... whatever. There was nothing sexual to it, but that is what I orgasmed to.

to be denied orgasm, to wear a chastity belt

...just a few examples...

... so the answer is YES... i'm pretty sure my sexual fantasies (if sexual fantasies means fantasies that make you aroused and/ or orgasm) are very different from vanilla folks.

From your posts, I think of you as submissive in bed- not as an insult, or not that you should not be part of this or any other bdsm community, but that's just what I've gathered...

Honestly, I don't think Dommes/ Mistresses are where you want to go (from my little experience with them).

I would think you just want a pretty vanilla woman who wants to dominate in bed. I have heard of such things, I believe... :) ...

and for the record, I think you're allowed to have your standards for all facets of the person- physical, spiritual, intellectual, etc...

Because you're right- if that attraction is not there- or if you can't respect someone because they don't take care of their health or they can't put a sentence together (or whatever), the relationship will fail... been there...

but not anymore!! Yay!! mari loves her Master!! Happy Dance!! :264: :264:

sorry, this isn't about me... lol... anyway... hope to see more of your posts and how you're doing...

Hi Lucyboy, I read your main thread and like many other sensible people here I was angered , and not in a sweet submissive way, by what youve been put through. I felt all the closer because I am myself a trans submissive (not operated or enhanced, nor full-time femme, but actively in a female sub/slave role). Bondage and s/m is something that came before I accepted myself as a trans; but they have joined together and I'd agree that it's easier to express and bring out the (loosely put) "classical subbie/slave role" for a woman, or someone agreeing to embrace and take on the role and the style of a lady; but this "field division" is, in the end, conditioned by social factors and ways of thought I think, not by biology or genetic factors. Women as a class are not inherently submissive, but like it or loathe it, submission comes out differently in a M/f or F/f relation than with a female Domme vs a male sub.

Would like to reply more here, but sitting at a different-designed Arab keyboard (where a and q, m and n have changed places, to name just a few things) at a cybercafé in Paris I'll wait till I'm home again.

big hugs,

Louise

Wow interesting replies and very insightful. I like the fantasy about being made to clean another girls desk even though it's not sexual it's a nice concept.

And even though in bdsm terms to say I'm only a sub in bed is an insult I don't think of it as such as I am just that. My submission can reach to domestic duties and other things but I would have to be aroused for it to feel right.

Just being bossed around when I'm trying to get on with my day and there has been no effort to get me aroused would be annoying. I'm very assertive when I'm not horny so you have hit the nail square on. I'm sexually submissive and proud.

As for finding a sexually dominant vanilla women, well that is very difficult once you leave the realm of kink that is the bdsm world the chances of finding what I'm looking for shrinks.

It would be like trying to find a needle in a haystack blind folded with one arm tied behind my back.

And think about all the relationships I would have to have with women who just aren't interested in my sexuality. I couldn't tell them outright because that would be to farout for them to take in but if I started a relationship without telling them it would feel dishonest on my part and the vanilla dating dynamics make me feel awkward so they would only end up feeling rejected. So it's a bit of a catch 22.

If Dommes and the bdsm world are not the place I'm gonna find someone then I will end up having some very dishonest dysfunctional vanilla relationships...Oi whats a man to do!!

At least on the bdsm scene people are openly kinky, if I was to tell most vanilla women that I'm sub they would just walk away and think pervert, it is never a shock on the bdsm scene even if I'm seen as irrelevant by most Dommes it's not shocking.

And thankyou very much Louise, it seems you understand my situation. It's funny how dressing up has made people except me more. It gives me a sparkle of hope.

By the way I'm in Thailand and this keyboard is driving me crazy too!!!!

As for most vanilla women being essentially sub I think it is submission in a vanilla way as in they don't want to be whipped, made to do the dishes or peed on but they still wanna be helpless.

If I took bondage, BDSM and the paraphernalia that goes with it, and titles such as Master and slave out of the equation, I think my sexual fantasies would still be much different than most of my vanilla friends. They may fantasize about a tall, handsome stranger who whisks them away like some romance novel hero and then takes advantage of them, but I seriously doubt they fantasize about being "forced" to deep throat a cock or getting fucked in the ass. Maybe they do. I have no idea because they are so vanilla they don't even talk about sex! Anyway, my fantasies may be somewhat tame, but what gets me off isn't. Asphyxiation makes me cum harder than anything else with anal being #2 (hahahahahaha). I've been the victim of unsatisfying sex for too many years, and now, I'm discovering certain humiliating things make it easier for me to cum, such as being spit on. I have no idea why, but when VoodooMan spits on my cunt, my ass or my face, I get very aroused. So, to summarize, you can take away all the whips and chains, but there's just something about me that isn't compatible with vanilla men. It doen't really matter what I might fantasize about day-to-day. What matters is the reality of what gets me aroused to the point of orgasm.

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Originally Posted by lucyboy

And even though in bdsm terms to say I'm only a sub in bed is an insult I don't think of it as such as I am just that. My submission can reach to domestic duties and other things but I would have to be aroused for it to feel right.

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Didn't mean to insult you! certainly not! And I do understand, I would find it insulting when someone called me not truly submissive- it's like they don't really know me... So, I'm sorry... but I missed the part about your liking anything other than sexual submission. Ok. Issue clarified. Moving on...

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Originally Posted by lucyboy

It would be like trying to find a needle in a haystack blind folded with one arm tied behind my back.

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True.... though I think finding the right person even within this realm was/ is like finding a needle in a haystack anyway... I don't know... it was just a thought... because I do feel for you too, and really want to be helpful... but sorry I failed! :icon277:

I'm glad he crossdressing is working for you- you never know what people could get into-
for example, one time I cybered (a long time ago) with a M CD topping me... it was very interesting.. I didn't care, all I wanted/ needed was the domination... but my point is- it's all out there... good luck, Lucyboy.

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Originally Posted by lucyboy

As for most vanilla women being essentially sub I think it is submission in a vanilla way as in they don't want to be whipped, made to do the dishes or peed on but they still wanna be helpless.

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You're right. You answered your own question here. :)

Hey lucyboy, how is Thailand? I am supposedly moving there in about five years.

My fantasies involved more than just being whisked away by a tall dark handsome man, and being helplessly ravaged while staring at mirrors on the cieling, during a thunderstorm.
My fantasies were in place before I even knew about BDSM, Master/slave, or the paraphanelia that went with it.
Maybe vanilla women don't really divulge thier secret innermost fantasies, for fear of being lableed something bad, which is what happened to me.

I still at times feel uncomfortable with my fantasies, but they are there and they get me very excited and hot.

I love the thought of being overpowered and controlled, I love the thought of being pulled around by my hair, to be spit on, slapped, pinched and bitten. I love to be forced to deep throat.
Add in the name calling and you have the perfect fantasy. With name calling I throw all rules out the window.

I find sex to be rather boring, and I would rather throw in a mix of pain and humliation to make it something that is enjoyable to me.

With respect to male/female subs and why they seem to build different relations to a Dom/me, I think this has something to do with physical strength, cos most women have this deep-down awareness (though you don't want to talk about it too openly) that men are very often physically stronger. In another thread a Dominant woman wrote not long ago about how her male slave had lost the feeling for subbing and serving - "when I pull his hair or act in a tough way he just pushes ,me off and tells me he doesn't want to be Dommed now". It's hard to imagine that situation with a male Dom and a woman sub isn't it? It's a consensual relation yes, but the difference in strength sort of cements the fact that the female slave can't just easily kick off her submission from one day to the next, and this means that, since the submission of her body is granted and can't be shaken off easily, mental and sexual submission come to the fore.

I don't think that women are essentially or "naturally" submissive as a group. Personally, I have mostly submissive fantasies (being kidnapped, being a groupie for a rock band, being exhibited in public...), but there are some people (mostly men) I am attracted to in more of a Domme way, and sometimes I have fantasies about dominating guys.

One other factor is that I think almost everyone (male, female, Dom, Sub or vanilla) has submissive fantasies! Seriously, most of my male friends, even those who are Doms in real life, have admitted to fantasizing about being dominated by a strong, foxy woman. :D Being submissive, in a "DS lite" kind of way at least, is easier, and it's sort of an instant rush of feeling desired and trusted. Of course most women you've talked to long for that sometimes.

The other thing is that honestly, it's more socially acceptable for a woman to have submissive leanings than dominant ones. Seriously, if you are talking to women in chat rooms or AFF or something and you ask her what she fantasizes about, what is she going to think you want to hear? "I fantasize about being swept off my feet by a dark stranger" or "I fantasize about whipping a guy's ass until he begs for mercy and then making him eat me out"? No one wants to scare away a potential date! And honestly, most of the "acceptable" sexual roles for women portrayed in the media are, to one degree or another, submissive.

lucyboy,

BDSM goes beyond paraphanalia and titles.. its about a persons inner self. its about who they truly are inside. you can take away all the crops floggers.. titles galore.. and there still will be a major difference. for the commitment is on a deeper level. so yes there is a difference. some might not believe me but i'd be suprised.. those of you out there who feel that this is something natural from within... will understand exactly what i mean