Age of Consent

If a world government were ever formed and they had to choose an age of consent for the entire planet, what do you think the worldwide age of consent should be?

Keep in mind some factors as you think about your decision:

[list=1][*]At what age is a person sexually considered an adult?[*]At what age is a person mentally considered an adult?[*]How do geographic, economic and societal stresses and influences affect your decision?[*]Should an age of consent apply to age of marital conset as well? If it should, how should the age of marital consent be affected?[*]If a worldwide age of consent were reached, how should it legally be enforced? Should there be exceptions in cases of parental approval? Should there be an exception if both parties are under the legal age of consent?[*]Given technological advances and new science, are today's laws adequate to deal with underage sexuality? What could be done to further improve the laws governing age of consent?[*]Finally, in cases of underage sex leading to pregnancy, what should be the determined outcome of the fetus? Should all fetuses carried by illegally impregnated mothers be immediately terminated? Should the underage mother's parents decide what is best for the fetus? Should the underage mother be given a say in the matter? Whose responsibility should it be to raise the baby, if the fetus is allowed to go to term?[/list=1]

Never let it be said that we don't make you think around here. :)

I don't post here much, but this question definitely caught my attention.



I honestly don't think that setting an age of consent is realistic. DIfferent people mature at different rates... I know people who were "ready" at the age of 16... they understood the risks, possiblities, and also were in a serious relationship with the other person... as the counter point to that I know people who should NEVER have sex.. just for the off-chance that progeny would be produced. As mean as that sounds, I am copletely serious.

I honestly don't think that its possible to enforce such a thing... if a person wants to do something they will wether there are laws governing against it or not. Exactly the same as drugs or alchohol, if someone finds a reason that they want to break the law, they most certainly will.

I have to laugh at #4... a friend of mine who I would consider mature enough to marry, married a woman who in my opinion wasn't... they were married 3 months before they got divorced... on the other hand 2 people who I believe aren't even CLOSE to mature enough to get married got married 2 months before my friend and are still married to this day... the difference between the couples? the divorced couple- 1 kid and an understanding of the world.. how shitty it can be and how cruel people can be... the married couple- totaly naieve to the world, they have less of a clue about whats going on than most people half there age, I guess that ignorance truly is bliss.

As far as any kids... it all depends on the circumstances... if the biological parents are capable of taking care of the kid, they get to keep it... if they and there parents are inept.. either abortion or adoption...... before you say "what are the requirements for "capable of taking care of the kid" well, that would be a matter of monetary means as well as mentally capable of doing so.




Now, I have a question for you Tourguide. Your daughter is in love with a guy who you believe is a dumbass. Your daughter is 17 and is intelligent (in your opinion) enough to make her own decisions. She gets pregnant, what do you do? (others may answer this question at there own descretion)

I gave a little ten year old mentaly challanged Girl a Totsipop and she said to me in a stright face "Thanks, I like to Suck"

I just smiled and said thats nice.

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Originally posted by Steely
Now, I have a question for you Tourguide. Your daughter is in love with a guy who you believe is a dumbass. Your daughter is 17 and is intelligent (in your opinion) enough to make her own decisions. She gets pregnant, what do you do? (others may answer this question at there own descretion)

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In all honesty, after I gave myself an ulcer from restraining myself from killing the little dick she was dating at the time, I would be very supportive of her. I'd help her out as much as I could, because had it not been for a lot of support from FF's family and mine, we'd be living in a box on the freeway right now.

P.S. 17 would mean she's been legal here for a full year.

Tourguide I thought the age here was actually 14..

... the government of Alberta (or the government of Canada, one or the other) raised the age of consent from 14 to 16 in 2002.

I could be wrong.

heh, just shows how sad the public education system is... they spend time teaching us thousands of things about history, and about England and other places but they never bother teaching us crap about our closest neighbors :p

Interesting questions, BDSM_Tourguide, but a couple of them should be no questions at all starting with:

At what age is a person sexually considered an adult?
A person may become sexually active, but that does not render anyone an adult. Being an adult means being able to assume legal responsabilities on behalf of oneself and most importantly on behalf of a dependant and that is more related to your second question

At what age is a person mentally considered an adult?
An this one is related closely to the personality of the people in question. Although immature and inexperienced, I considered myself mentally (although not legally) adult at 14 years old and I know people in their 20's and 30's who still have not reached that stage.

How do geographic, economic and societal stresses and influences affect your decision?
I have lived in 5 different countries and although societal expectations and stresses vary, I would have to say that adulthood can still be measured by the ability to legally become responsible for others. That may be easier in some societies than others but the concept holds true no matter where you are.

Should an age of consent apply to age of marital consent as well? If it should, how should the age of marital consent be affected?
Ideally it should apply but we are thinking here about an utopian world where sexually active people era actually educated and responsible.

If a worldwide age of consent were reached, how should it legally be enforced? Should there be exceptions in cases of parental approval? Should there be an exception if both parties are under the legal age of consent?
What a laugh. The USA cannot even enforce the legal drinking age, the Soviet Union could never enforce state-approved atheism and you are asking if we could enforce a world-wide age of consent? As for the second part of your question, let me ask: how many people do you think would ask for parental approval and how many parents would give it?

Given technological advances and new science, are today's laws adequate to deal with underage sexuality? What could be done to further improve the laws governing age of consent?
The problem with technology and laws is that they are utterly useless in dealing with the real question, which is the mental developpment of children and their education in the areas of social, civic, sexual and legal responsablility. The answer would be to improve the laws dealing with education.

Finally, in cases of underage sex leading to pregnancy, what should be the determined outcome of the fetus? Should all fetuses carried by illegally impregnated mothers be immediately terminated? Should the underage mother's parents decide what is best for the fetus? Should the underage mother be given a say in the matter? Whose responsibility should it be to raise the baby, if the fetus is allowed to go to term?
Ah, me... the abortion debate. Should all fetuses carried by illegally impregnated mothers be immediately terminated? And this would be done as punishment to the "illegal mother"? We are not even considering the religious, moral and emotional implications.
Should the underage mother's parents decide what is best for the fetus? That is, after failing to properly educate their own offspring? And if they did are they willing to become the baby's legal parents?
Should the underage mother be given a say in the matter? Sure, if she (and the father) are willing to become responsible for a newborn baby.
Whose responsibility should it be to raise the baby, if the fetus is allowed to go to term? Well here go again to the original quandary. Does consent imply responsability?

Consent to become sexually active can not be regulated, legislated or enforced. Legal ages for drinking, driving, voting, etc, are all subjective, arbitrary and ultimately unjust. They are however, the only things we have to avoid social chaos. There will always be people who are mature beyond their years and there will always be inmature morons who should be kept off the streets for their own protection and everyone else's. The real answer is education and parents giving their children a good example in responsability.

Now, want to see a crazy question? Should there be a legal age of consent to practice bdsm in a non-sexual way? How old do people have to be to legally say "please slap me, I think I will enjoy it"

This site has a comprehensive table of both countries of the world and US states. Ages are variable but 14 appears the most common.

http://www.ageofconsent.com

(Just making your URL work, Harry)

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Originally posted by Jones, Nikka
The answer would be to improve the laws dealing with education.

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I was actually hoping someone would bring that up.

It raises two important questions that should go along with this thread very well:

1. Should there be a mandatory system of sexual education in place to teach children the pros and cons of having sex?

2. Should there also be a mandatory education on pregnancy and its challenges taught to school-age kids?


I would think, and this is just my opinion, that if we educated ten and eleven year olds about the risks of underage sex, unsafe sex, STDs, etc. that when they started having sex (assuming they aren't already), they would be able to make more informed and educated decisions about it.

It seems to me that all the religious and moral organizations that keep sex education out of schools are doing is promoting ignorance and youth pregnancies. I see nothing wrong, for instance, with passing out condoms in high school. Pass out a safe-sedx pamphlet with them. If the kids are going to have sex, and they are, then let's at least try to make sure they're doing it safely.

What the age of consent would be, and should be... two different things.

I think eighteen is a sensible number. That's the age most cultures let/put their children out of their homes... that's the beginning of adulthood.

I agree with the entirety of Nikka's post and nearly all of Tourguide's second post, the only exception being the distribution of condoms in school. Where I live, schools can't give out an aspirin without parental approval. The concept of free distribution is a good one, though. Maybe it could be done at the free-needle exchange? (wishful thinking)

People become 'adults' at different rates depending on the subject discussed. When I was 16 I was better equipped to vote than most forty-year-olds, but I didn't become mature enough to handle a sexual relationship until I was 28.

And, at 43, I'm still not mature enough to handle ownership of a gun.

Should there also be a mandatory education on pregnancy and its challenges taught to school-age kids?
Schools are very good at teaching the how-to of sex, but they don't do a thing about teaching the advantages of a stable relationship, or how to raise children, or anything else that comes AFTER the sex.
"This is how to have a baby... and this is how to protect yourself if you don't want one." Contraceptives don't always work... what happens then? Help once it's happened is difficult: a scared teenager who's just found out his girlfriend is pregnant isn't going to be thinking rationally, he's going to be thinking of all the bad things he's been taught, by the schools, that having a baby is going to cause for him. Is it any wonder there's that many single mothers?
I say teach about the advantages of sticking with their girl/guy. Instead of focusing on the negative aspects of sex, and trying to scare them away from it, teach them how sex is a good thing, children are great, and not buggering off after either one is even better.

I'd also like to note that I went to a Christian school (Private) and we were taught a whole lot about sex. What Moral Organisations are you talking about that are trying to remove it from schools?

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Originally posted by Lord Douche
Should there also be a mandatory education on pregnancy and its challenges taught to school-age kids?
Schools are very good at teaching the how-to of sex, but they don't do a thing about teaching the advantages of a stable relationship, or how to raise children, or anything else that comes AFTER the sex.
"This is how to have a baby... and this is how to protect yourself if you don't want one." Contraceptives don't always work... what happens then? Help once it's happened is difficult: a scared teenager who's just found out his girlfriend is pregnant isn't going to be thinking rationally, he's going to be thinking of all the bad things he's been taught, by the schools, that having a baby is going to cause for him. Is it any wonder there's that many single mothers?
I say teach about the advantages of sticking with their girl/guy. Instead of focusing on the negative aspects of sex, and trying to scare them away from it, teach them how sex is a good thing, children are great, and not buggering off after either one is even better.

I'd also like to note that I went to a Christian school (Private) and we were taught a whole lot about sex. What Moral Organisations are you talking about that are trying to remove it from schools?

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I hate to break it to you, but These kids know already.
I am driving BD (Behavor Disorder)kids that are still in elemintary School and I am constanly shocked at what they are talking about and what they did over the weekend. I mean they are in 8th friking grade and she's talking about how her man did her so good last night and he came in her and she's mad at him becouse she does not want to get pregnet.
I just drive the bus I dont ingage in there conversation.
Teaching the kids that is good to abstain is like telling the fox don't eat the chicken after he has already stolen it from the coop.

It is a wast of time and recourses that could be used in keeping them from killing the teachers.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Lord Douche
I'd also like to note that I went to a Christian school (Private) and we were taught a whole lot about sex. What Moral Organisations are you talking about that are trying to remove it from schools?

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In the US, most of the religious and moral organizations oppose the passing out of condoms in school under the belief that it will encourage underage and pre-marital sex.

In fact, when I was in high school and our school announced it would try to make condoms available to legal-age students, the Christain Science Club, the Catholic Students Union and the Baptist Students Union all protested the idea. The next day there were half a dozen reverends and priests at the dorrs of the school passing out flyers boycotting condoms and discouraging pre-marital sex at the same time. The Catholics, oddly enough, even said that condoms were against god's will and told anyone that would listen to abstain until after marriage, but then to have as many children as they could, because that was doing right by the lord and saviour and all that sort of thing.

The next day the announcement was made that the school would acquiesce to the wishes of the Student Organizations and not carry condoms. So, the whole issue of condoms in my high school lasted exactly three days.

That was in 1990. I can only imagine how bad it is now.



Now, having said that, I would like to remind people that this isn't a thread to debate religion or education. At least in terms not in keeping with age of consent.

Those topis could easily be taken up in their own threads by anyone that would like to start them.

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Originally posted by Mobius
I hate to break it to you, but These kids know already.
I am driving BD (Behavor Disorder)kids that are still in elemintary School and I am constanly shocked at what they are talking about and what they did over the weekend. I mean they are in 8th friking grade and she's talking about how her man did her so good last night and he came in her and she's mad at him becouse she does not want to get pregnet.
I just drive the bus I dont ingage in there conversation.
Teaching the kids that is good to abstain is like telling the fox don't eat the chicken after he has already stolen it from the coop.

It is a wast of time and recourses that could be used in keeping them from killing the teachers.

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You don't have to break anything to most of us. A lot of us know what kids are doing today.

I, for example, was unfortunate enough to mke the aquaintance of a charming young woman (or so I thought) and her friend after answering a personal ad specifcally for adults. Hence, the person placing the ad was supposed to be an adult, as was the person answering the ad.

So, after awhile of dating this girl, forming a relationship with her and letting her move in with me, I find out that she's not actually 18, she's 16. Her friend, who I did not have any kind of relationship with and who had claimed to be 16 was actually 13. How did I find all this out? From the nice policeman that arrested me after the two girls spent the night out after telling the 13 year old's mom that they were just "going to the fair and then right home."

Turns out, they picked up a couple of guys, got really drunk, had sex, passed out and didn't wake up until the next day. So, I fell for the old bait and switch and wound up getting arrested for unlawful carnal knowledge of a juvenile. How's that for justice?

Incidentally, the case was dropped and all charges dismissed when it was found out that the girl had misrepresented herself in an adult personal ad and had pretended to be 18 years old until the very day I was arrested.

So, you don't have to tell me about what teens and kids are doing. I know pretty well what they're doing.


By the way, the word 'fuck' comes from what I was charged for. It was the abbreviation for 'for unlawful carnal knowledge' and has been an accpted term of language for over 600 years. Its first inception was when the church used to have women executed for adultery. They were charged with unlawful carnal knowledge before being hanged.


Also, I don't feel like educating people about sex, safe sex and pregnancy would be a waste of time. Since most of the teens that commit shootings in schools are angry, ignorant youth, I would say some education about a lot of 'non-school' subjects might be good for schoolkids.

However, this thread is not for debates about the educational system and what it lacks, unless it pertains to age of consent. If someone wanted to open a thread on education, over in General Talk, for instance, then it could be debated there.

I don't debate that the kids know about sex. My "innocent little sister" (according to my parents) can talk pretty dirty if she wants to. And although I'm all for no sex before marriage, I know it's not going to happen because I would like it to.
What I'm saying is teach them some responsibility. And it has everything to do with the Age of Consent... the earlier they learn this stuff, the earlier they are able to deal with having sex, and it's consequences.

As for the church... I don't think God prohibits the use of contraceptives. It's just the church doing it's own interpretation.

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Originally posted by BDSM_Tourguide
[COLOR=firebrick]

Incidentally, the case was dropped and all charges dismissed when it was found out that the girl had misrepresented herself in an adult personal ad and had pretended to be 18 years old until the very day I was arrested.
COLOR]

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You lucked out, my friend. Sad fact is that, in many states, their misrepresentation would not have saved you, had their families chosen to push it. And that is my biggest complaint about statutory rape laws--a girl can misrepresent her age, meet her victim (yep, that's what I said) in a place where any reasonable person would believe her to be of legal age, and the poor sod who fucks her is STILL going to go down, legally speaking, should she or her family decide to press the statutory rape issue. When I was managing a local club, we had a case unfold that nearly brought the bar down. 14 year old girl, fake ID. GOOD fake ID--this girl hadn't just peeled the laminate and stuck in her own picture or ordered some tacky fake kit from the back of Seventeen magazine. She'd taken her older sister's social security card, birth certificate, and a credit card bill and headed down to the DMV. Told them she'd lost her license, could she have a duplicate created? And sure enough, they took HER picture, slapped it on a new license with her sister's information. It was absolutely indistinguishable from the real thing. 24 year guy picks her up--again, reasonable man argument--she was in a bar, she had ID that no one could have pegged as fake, and she claimed to be legal.

He took a fall. Hard. And her family, after they were done raping him, came after us for serving her liquor and allowing her into the place, thus faciliating the "emotional anguish" her "devastating abuse" had brought about.

My ass. I remember the girl. I checked her ID. I remember hanging out with girls just like her when I was 14. And they were out to get laid. And so was she.

Sad reality is, there are 13-14-15+ year old girls out there who like to fuck. And they'll bullshit egregiously to get fucked. And their parents will fuck YOU if they catch you dipping into that particular well. And legally speaking, the girls' lies count for naught--the law doesn't care if you were bullshat. I find that to be a horrendous violation of the SPIRIT of the law. You were lucky, and I'm very glad you were.

Oh, and on the issue of "Fuck" standing for "for unlawful carnal knowledge." That's an urban myth--the word existed long before English was spoken in anything resembling the form we use today: http://www.snopes.com/language/acronyms/fuck.htm

Kallie

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Originally posted by Kallie Thomas
You lucked out, my friend. Sad fact is that, in many states, their misrepresentation would not have saved you, had their families chosen to push it.

Oh, and on the issue of "Fuck" standing for "for unlawful carnal knowledge." That's an urban myth--the word existed long before English was spoken in anything resembling the form we use today: http://www.snopes.com/language/acronyms/fuck.htm

Kallie

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Yeah. Her mom knew all about our relationship. She didn't care. So, probably, that helped out a bit, too.

Seems that both instances of fuck are true in your URL. The first two explanations support the 'King' origination and the last four explanations support the 'carnal' explanation. Both are likely to be true and evolved around the same time frame, since both religious and lordly laws show correspondence to the attitudes mentioned in all the examples given.

Quote:

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Originally posted by BDSM_Tourguide

Seems that both instances of fuck are true in your URL. The first two explanations support the 'King' origination and the last four explanations support the 'carnal' explanation. Both are likely to be true and evolved around the same time frame, since both religious and lordly laws show correspondence to the attitudes mentioned in all the examples given.

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Those explanations are listed along with the reasons why they are not true :)

I found a fascinating one on the alleged (and also false) origins of the word "shit." The story is that "shit" actually stood/stands for "ship high in transit," and referred to the shipping of dung. Like the "fuck" acronym myth, it's not true, but it's amusing as hell. Makes you wish it was true, it's so clever.

Kallie

http://www.questia.com/Index.jsp?CRI...tect&OFFID=se2

thes web sight shows the law in the USA and a sine (by most of the world who ueses the net, BUT not all) that you most be 18 to be of consent if you "reed in to it" what it relley meen is 3 things, 1 to ciber play you most be 18 or over (thow that one relley reeding in to it) 2 too meet and greet and or to have sex you most be 18 (that one is MUCH more tru)3 to see reed woch or be in any porn (like the sight hear) you most be 18 (or some times even 21)

as I say most of the world sined it that thay would follow thows rules for thes so I do not know abot world marge law's or sex laws, but thows or the ones for the net, and I say it befor and I say it aggen 18+18+18+!!!!!!!! I do not see way we all ways have to ask that quesoton??? hell sometimes 18 is to young becoes thay do not know any better (note knowing abot sex and haveing it OR two drfornt things like knowing how to kill your slafe and DOing it or two drfotn things) last I just like to say that I am not sayig 18 years or younger do not have sex, I just saying mabey thay sould not be doing it and a lot more today or holding off tall thay find that one tru love today but i trulry do wont to know way avrey one keep asking when it ok to have sex I meen it is a usa web sight? most of us or in the usa? so who cares abot other place laws, WE KNOW OR'S!!!!! and or say 18 is 18 is 18

[*]At what age is a person sexually considered an adult?

See next question, but a sexually active person should (as per RFC standard, aka MUST) be mentally active. (at least conscious of the implications). Moreover, it should be matured enough, from a physical point of view. This puts the lower limit to 16, at least.
[*]At what age is a person mentally considered an adult?

How does the mental of a person relate to his/her age ?
What about trisomic and supergenius ?
What is an adult ? If the answer is 'a person responsible and accountable for his/her acts',
[*]How do geographic, economic and societal stresses and influences affect your decision?

Ok. I just stick to my local law:
[list=A][*]responsible from 13[*]sexuality from 16 only with less than 18 old (more than 18 old could get prosecuted on younger or younger's parent/tutor requests)[*]sexuality from 18 only with more than 18.[*]vote from 18.[/list=A]
I have a few other motivations, but they are not age-related.
[*]Should an age of consent apply to age of marital conset as well? If it should, how should the age of marital consent be affected?

marital consent at 18. Exceptionnal wedding from 16 with less than 18 old only with both side parents/tutors approval, but they could just wait 2 years as well.
[*]If a worldwide age of consent were reached, how should it legally be enforced? Should there be exceptions in cases of parental approval? Should there be an exception if both parties are under the legal age of consent?

See previous answer. Exception ONLY if both are under 18, (and still past 16).
[*]Given technological advances and new science, are today's laws adequate to deal with underage sexuality? What could be done to further improve the laws governing age of consent?

What does technology changes in physical evolution ?
Which law are you speaking of ?
Your question seems unfounded, unless you provide more material.
[*]Finally, in cases of underage sex leading to pregnancy, what should be the determined outcome of the fetus? Should all fetuses carried by illegally impregnated mothers be immediately terminated? Should the underage mother's parents decide what is best for the fetus? Should the underage mother be given a say in the matter? Whose responsibility should it be to raise the baby, if the fetus is allowed to go to term?

The mother-to-be decision should be final, once provided rational and unbiased information.
The mother's parent should not have any influence on the decision, and protection should be provided for that purpose.
Medical matter might enforces fact only to protect the mother-to-be, in case of real and excessive danger.
The mother-to-be should weight at least three possibilities:
[list=1][*]abortion[*]allowing the fetus to go to term and take care of the baby herself.[*]allowing the fetus to go to term and give the baby for adoption (anonymously, no choice of family, no official-link between the mother and the baby. At best, she could leave a letter for the baby to be given/opened only upon request of the baby when at least 18).[/list=1]
The father-to-be could at best support the mother-to-be (if he is known... there is still the bad case of rape...)

These are interesting and important questions.

Establishing a global age of consent would need to override the different ages that are considered acceptable in some cultures. I don't know why we would want to do this without also achieving a global consensus on other standards affecting crime and punishment.

Even in the USA different states do not agree on the death penalty, but many people in our culture might want other nations to eliminate practices that we consider barbaric.

If we had global laws that all nations agreed to observe, would they override US Laws? I doubt if the US will ever be persuaded to obey anybody else's laws. They are far too busy enforcing theirs in the rest of the world. So the idea is a dead duck before we start.

That aside, what is the purpose of having an agreed age of consent? I suggest that the most accepted reason is to protect younger people from predatory older people. In that case we need laws based on age difference and not primarily the age of the younger party. A maximum age difference of 5 years is probably about right where the older party is over a minimum age such as 18. I think the law should focus on adults who abuse children.

Everywhere in the world real live people begin to explore their own sexuality alone and with others before they reach the age of consent. I do not agree with the criminalisation of young people's behaviour with other young people of similar age, although I do agree that education is important to discourage promiscuity before adulthood.

Sex education starts in schools at a much earlier age than the age of consent. Why? This is a health and safety issue, but we should also understand that it is natural to be influenced by our own sexuality long before puberty.

I agree that teenage pregnancies are undesirable, but what the girl needs in these cases is understanding and support. All the girl has actually done is like going out in the rain and finding out that you get wet. Should we sentence the innocant baby to death? Not if I had anything to do with it, unless as a last resort, if the mother was traumatised by the circumstances in which she became pregnant.

The most insidious consequence of having an age of consent is the suggestion that authors should not use any underage characters in fiction. That is absurd. I certainly agree that images of children should not be used in a sexual context, but the whole thing has gone too far when a grandfather cannot sit his grandchild on his knee or demonstrate any affection to a grandchild without being accused of criminal behaviour. This is not only absurd, but harmful to children who need affection of an ordinary kind.

Fictional work is traditionally where human behaviour is explored and the ills of society are exposed, and I would suggest that the abuse of children is a perfectly valid topic to address in a fictional context. There are best selling novels in every bookshop about children being murdered, and I would not ban them. More authors should be prepared to write about the experiences of children in chatrooms, and the dangers and consequences of misrepresenting their age in order to participate with adults.

Impractical laws that attempt to restrain natural behaviour will always be discredited. What we need is a more practical approach based on a true and better understanding of human sexuality and development.

The right punishment for sexual activity between adolescents is education, and don't criminalise parents for kissing their children.

My oh my, what a topic... :)

Well, I just read the entire thread and there are some good points made about Tourguide's questions. I don't think that a global age of consent would ever be reached due to the differences in cultural practices around the world. I believe that people mature, both mentally and sexually, at different rates. This has to do with their home enviornment as well as their social enviornment. I do think that education is a VERY important key to kids understanding what sex and relationships are all about. The more informed kids are the better equiped they are to make good decisions. I'm 20 years old...my little brother is 10. I can guarantee you he knows more about sex than I did at that age and has at the very least heard things about it and doesn't really understand what it's all about. I went to a private Catholic school for 7 years (kindergarten-6th grades). When I was in 6th grade (I was 11), I, along with the other 6th, 7th, and 8th graders, took a sex ed class. I knew the practicalities of sex, why sex before marraige was a big risk (both pregnancy and STDs were covered well), and how to protect myself should I decide to have sex before I was married. So...at 11 years of age, I knew about the human reproductive system and knew my options should I become sexually active. Then I went to a public school the next year. I learned what 'fucking'/'screwing' was. Yeah, it was a bit different than what I was taught at the Catholic school but the difference was I learned this in the hallways and the gym and in whispered conversations/notes in class from my peers. No one mentioned things like condoms or birth control...they just had a good time and didn't care that they weren't being responsible about sex. This is what most kids (at least at a preadolecent age) know about sex nowadays. They hear what good fun it is and yeah bad stuff could happen but it'll never happen to me. They're hearing stuff from movies and music and older siblings/friends and what they get is a glazed look at sex. They haven't been taught that should they choose to have sex that they have a responsibility to themselves and their partner to protect themselves from both disease and pregnancy. Or that even if they take precautions they could still end up with a STD or unplanned pregnancy. Tell me if you think any 10-13 year old is prepared to take on such responsibility? It's a lot for anyone to consider and should be taken very seriously, which unfortunately, isn't something that teenagers today do very much. Yes, the kids should know about it and be able to figure out for themselves whether they are or are not ready to handle having sex instead of someone preaching to them all the bad things that'll happen if they do have sex.

Education is key and it's not up to just schools either. Parents have to take it upon themselves to educate their children about sex if they want their kids to know their options and be able to make rational decisions about sex. Easier said than done I know but it is what needs to be done in my humble opinion.

~Artemis~

Welcome back, Artemis! Long time, no see!

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Originally posted by le forgeron
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[*]How do geographic, economic and societal stresses and influences affect your decision?

Ok. I just stick to my local law:
[list=A][*]responsible from 13[*]sexuality from 16 only with less than 18 old (more than 18 old could get prosecuted on younger or younger's parent/tutor requests)[*]sexuality from 18 only with more than 18.[*]vote from 18.[/list=A]
I have a few other motivations, but they are not age-related.

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the problem I have with this horseshit is that what if two kids, aged 16 and 17 become sexually active. By your local law (which I am assuming to be correct) this is totally legal...two kids having fun in the sac. But hey, as soon as the 17 year old hits 18 and the 16 year old hits 17, by that law, the 18 year can get fucked if the "angry dad" finds out and decides to raise hell. Excuse me, but if you've been having sex legally for at least a year and all of a sudden it becomes illegal to me represents a huge flaw in the whole system.

Makes me glad that I live in a place that doesn't enforce Ludicrous laws such as that. Not that I've had that problem...both my girlfriend and I are of legal voting age anyways so it's all good.

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Originally posted by fetish101
the problem I have with this horseshit is that what if two kids, aged 16 and 17 become sexually active. By your local law (which I am assuming to be correct) this is totally legal...two kids having fun in the sac. But hey, as soon as the 17 year old hits 18 and the 16 year old hits 17, by that law, the 18 year can get fucked if the "angry dad" finds out and decides to raise hell. Excuse me, but if you've been having sex legally for at least a year and all of a sudden it becomes illegal to me represents a huge flaw in the whole system.

Makes me glad that I live in a place that doesn't enforce Ludicrous laws such as that. Not that I've had that problem...both my girlfriend and I are of legal voting age anyways so it's all good.

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Most places have at least somewhat more "reasonable" laws. For example, in Utah it's felony rape of a child if the "victim" is under 14 years of age, and statutory rape if the "victim" is 14-16 AND the actor is more than three years older AND an element of coercion can be established.

Most states do have an "AND the actor is more than X number of years older than the victim" clause, likely for the purpose of eliminating situations like the one you present.

Here's a page that gives a brief overview of the laws by state: http://www.agi-usa.org/pubs/journals/2903097.html

:)
Kallie

Spitman writes:
[/QUOTE]That aside, what is the purpose of having an agreed age of consent? I suggest that the most accepted reason is to protect younger people from predatory older people. In that case we need laws based on age difference and not primarily the age of the younger party. A maximum age difference of 5 years is probably about right where the older party is over a minimum age such as 18. I think the law should focus on adults who abuse children.[/QUOTE]

Adults who abuse children are the problem, not children consensually experimenting with each other. The prevention of sexual abuse is the reason we should even consider such laws, but unfortunately, no law will prevent sexual abuse from happening because the majority of child abuse happens within the family. Every woman I know who was abused sexually as a child or teenager, was abused by an older male member of her family. Furthermore, this is the part that tears at me, of all the women I know well enough to talk about such things, over 80% of them were abused in some way as children. I know 15 women who were abused in some way.

But how do you go about correcting the problem once it is discovered? Current laws forcing psychologists and counselors to report sexual abuse to police are actually promoting the continuation of sexual abuse in many families. Many families that would try to correct the problem and seek counseling for the child molestor who is a father, or grandfather, or beloved uncle will not do so because their shame will be known to all. The problem is kept hidden and secret to prevent destroying the family. They try to handle it on their own, but of course, cannot seek psychiatric help for the abused child or the pedophile because by doing so the situation will be made public. In the end, no one is helped and the family is destroyed from within. But at least their shame is not known to the outside world and they do not have to face people on the street everyday who think "Your father, grandfather, husband, etc. is a pedophile." Whether the family is shamed before the world or falls apart from within by trying to hide the secret, the law as it is currently enforced destroys the family.

The approach must be more rational and conducive to preserving the family unit. The abuser must be treated and controlled and the abused must receive counseling and therapy, but the abuse does not have to be published in the local newspaper. Many many pedophiles never abuse anyone outside of the family unit. The psychiatrist examining the pedophile can determine whether he is a threat to children outside the family and decide whether the crime needs to be reported to the police or not. Some cases of abuse are actually one time slip-ups and never happen again. I know of one particular case where the young girl was touched only once on her breasts by her drunken, lonely, divorced father one sad night. The next day he apologized profusedly and never did it again. Such "abuse" should never be reported to police, although a little counseling for the girl and the father so they could both put the incident behind them would definitely help. (She still has problems with the incident but is afraid to seek counseling because of the laws.)

By the way, this is not my opinion based on my limited knowledge. Both my parents are psychiatrists and had to deal with many cases of sexual abuse. After many years of working with children and families, they came to the conclusion I stated above. My mother even risked her career by not reporting one particular case because she knew that reporting it would permanently damage the victim. Unfortunately, some well meaning but ignorant member of the child's family reported it anyway. My mother had to go to court to defend her position (She won), but the child will be in therapy for the rest of her life because the damage was done.

Now for my thoughts on child abuse fiction.

I am one of the ones who objects to fictionalized accounts of child abuse that show this abuse as being erotic. I am biased, I'll admit. I hate it. I see one big difference between these types of fantasies and other crimes, like rape fantasies.
Many women have rape fantasies; therefore, such fantasies appeal to both the possible perpetrator and the possible victim. Child molestation fantasies are not shared by the victim also. The only ones who would be aroused by them would be the potential pedophiles. That one-sided eroticism is to me what makes the difference.

Interesting questions, indeed. As father of three pretty daughters, ages 13 (today), 14, and 8, my answers are heavily colored by parental concerns.

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At what age is a person sexually considered an adult?

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The legal assumption is that a person below a certain age lacks the experience and maturity to make a rational choice, even if they are making a conscious choice. Maturity depends (as others have said) on the individual; experience depends on environment. A 20-yo virginal woman, protected from all carnal knowledge, could very well be "raped" in her nuptual bed, given her lack of knowledge; a 13-yo girl who "voluntarily" prostitutes herself under economic duress is equally raped. But a well-informed 14-yo who deliberately seduces a man (or woman) with lies and without pressure -- that is not rape.

Sexual law is a nebulous area, difficult to define in absolute terms. All laws are open to interpretation, but it is far easier to enforce something concrete (stop for red lights) than is is to define "consent" in sexual relations.

In a truly mature society, we could handle each situation individually and with great deliberation; alas, humans are still quite reactive and prone to unthinking fundamentalism. I'd be a libertarian if I trusted people -- but I continue to see signs that we need some sort of common, clearly-deined rules.

Witness Montana's attempt at eliminating speed limits on highways, under tha assumption that people would show common sense. Accident rates (which sometimes killed the innocent) skyrocketed as idiots raced across the plains. Montana has since reinstituted speed limits. I hesitate to think what would happen if sexual laws were left open to "common sense"... ;}

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At what age is a person mentally considered an adult?

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Too variable to define, and often situational. I might be an "adult" in some circumstances, but not in others. I certainly know that my eldest daughter sometimes shows signs of being more mature than her father on certain topics... ;)

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How do geographic, economic and societal stresses and influences affect your decision?

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Should an age of consent apply to age of marital conset as well? If it should, how should the age of marital consent be affected?

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In my opinion, marriage is a legal union that implies a sexual component. Marriage is a commitment, something that should be honored regardless of the ages and sexes of the individuals involved. Like sex, the commitment of marriage is something that different people are ready for at different ages.

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If a worldwide age of consent were reached, how should it legally be enforced? Should there be exceptions in cases of parental approval? Should there be an exception if both parties are under the legal age of consent?

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It won't happen in our lifetimes without a global, totalitarian government. Societies differ far too much for any common law to be applied voluntarily, worldwide.

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Given technological advances and new science, are today's laws adequate to deal with underage sexuality? What could be done to further improve the laws governing age of consent?

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Technology has nothing to do with it. The problem isn't underage sexuality -- it is a culture that devalues commitment and promotes gratuitous pleasure without regard for consequences. Irresponsible underage sex is a symptom, not the disease.

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Finally, in cases of underage sex leading to pregnancy, what should be the determined outcome of the fetus? Should all fetuses carried by illegally impregnated mothers be immediately terminated? Should the underage mother's parents decide what is best for the fetus? Should the underage mother be given a say in the matter? Whose responsibility should it be to raise the baby, if the fetus is allowed to go to term?

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This topic will take us far from the original premise -- and another set of questions that have no absolute answers.

"I'd be a Libertarian if I trusted people."

Best line of the week. :p