Subbie Class (Or Lack Thereof).

mastersgem started a delightful little thread on, well, the threads we sport as Lifestylers: what is classy and what leaves some "room for improvement?" This got me to thinking about the choices we subbies make in regard to our wardrobe.

Now, I'm not talking about the outfits (or lack thereof) that we put together for play, I mean what we choose to wear when we go out in public either with or without our Doms.

I find, these days, that I am very conscious of what I put on and how I present myself. J has made requests for certain outfits He likes now and again, but even when left to my own devices I look in the mirror and find myself asking what Master would think. At first this caused Him to raise an eyebrow: you see, I would make a special attempt to look a little classier, a little sexier, a little more whatever-the-occasion-called-for and He would wonder at the need for the extra effort. Who was I trying to get to pay attention? He was ALREADY paying very close attention to me, right? Indeed, I agreed, He was. However, there was something very satisfying to me to be able to walk in to a room, turn a few heads, then walk over to Master and lay my head on his shoulder and have Him loop an arm around my waist and have the whole room know that I look like that for HIM. Not so much that I care what the room thinks, but that I always want J to know he can be proud of me anywhere he takes me. Same scenario when we attend business functions together. I am always a step above my normal game with Master in the room, and beyond that, He can almost always be certain I am wearing audatious underwear underneath my most solemn business attire. Nope, those aren't simply black nylons, those are thigh highs and garters... ;)

So my question to the Doms and subbies is thus: is there something you wear or a certain way you present yourself outside of the bedroom specifically for your significant other? What? And why?

Great post, as usual, Amber hun - and I do think there is much merit to be put on a submissive who knows how to 'class' it up for their Master - nothing quite like a class act woman who can show a room what that means, turn a few heads and then show that it is for one and one only. One would think it would make a Master very proud to have such a submissive that only he owns, knowing she can outshine a room and it will be him taking her home and enjoying the wanton submissive she is for only him *winks*

for myself, it isn't pretty underthings but lack thereof hehe - wearing a beautiful, clingy, flowing dress, completely elegant from head to toe and only he knows there is that small bit of wanton just a piece of sheer cloth away hehe can make for wild teasing lol

amber,

You are right in what you are doing remind J that you are a reflection of him at all times. Due to that I expect mine to dress better then others do and that is part of the whole package. She will have the proper amount of make up on she will be respectful of all and she will never act in a manner that would be embarrassing to me.

Remember though that I don't require her to be respectful or behave in a lady like toward someone that has proven themselves to not be respectful to her.

I tip my hat to slaves that feel as you do and back it up with the proper actions.

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Originally Posted by mastersgem

for myself, it isn't pretty underthings but lack thereof hehe - wearing a beautiful, clingy, flowing dress, completely elegant from head to toe and only he knows there is that small bit of wanton just a piece of sheer cloth away hehe can make for wild teasing lol

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Classic scandal, right there! ;) I have teased Mater before that one day He'll be sitting at work and FedEx will deliver an envelope. He'll open it to find a pair or my panties and a cocktail napkin that says, "I'm clearly not in these, better come find me!" Of course I'll be easy to find, the address will be on the cocktail napkin, but who wants to play hard to get for TOO long?

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Originally Posted by Sir_Russell

Remember though that I don't require her to be respectful or behave in a lady like toward someone that has proven themselves to not be respectful to her.

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This is (unfortunately, sometimes) rarely my problem. I cannot think of the last time I was flat out aggressive towards anyone, but I do have the tiniest little streak of caustic sarcasm...

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Originally Posted by DowntownAmber

mastersgem started a delightful little thread on, well, the threads we sport as Lifestylers: what is classy and what leaves some "room for improvement?" This got me to thinking about the choices we subbies make in regard to our wardrobe.

Now, I'm not talking about the outfits (or lack thereof) that we put together for play, I mean what we choose to wear when we go out in public either with or without our Doms.

I find, these days, that I am very conscious of what I put on and how I present myself. J has made requests for certain outfits He likes now and again, but even when left to my own devices I look in the mirror and find myself asking what Master would think. At first this caused Him to raise an eyebrow: you see, I would make a special attempt to look a little classier, a little sexier, a little more whatever-the-occasion-called-for and He would wonder at the need for the extra effort. Who was I trying to get to pay attention? He was ALREADY paying very close attention to me, right? Indeed, I agreed, He was. However, there was something very satisfying to me to be able to walk in to a room, turn a few heads, then walk over to Master and lay my head on his shoulder and have Him loop an arm around my waist and have the whole room know that I look like that for HIM. Not so much that I care what the room thinks, but that I always want J to know he can be proud of me anywhere he takes me. Same scenario when we attend business functions together. I am always a step above my normal game with Master in the room, and beyond that, He can almost always be certain I am wearing audatious underwear underneath my most solemn business attire. Nope, those aren't simply black nylons, those are thigh highs and garters... ;)

So my question to the Doms and subbies is thus: is there something you wear or a certain way you present yourself outside of the bedroom specifically for your significant other? What? And why?

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Originally Posted by mastersgem

Great post, as usual, Amber hun - and I do think there is much merit to be put on a submissive who knows how to 'class' it up for their Master - nothing quite like a class act woman who can show a room what that means, turn a few heads and then show that it is for one and one only. One would think it would make a Master very proud to have such a submissive that only he owns, knowing she can outshine a room and it will be him taking her home and enjoying the wanton submissive she is for only him *winks*

for myself, it isn't pretty underthings but lack thereof hehe - wearing a beautiful, clingy, flowing dress, completely elegant from head to toe and only he knows there is that small bit of wanton just a piece of sheer cloth away hehe can make for wild teasing lol

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Once again, as on other subjects, I see attitude here above action... what one wishes to accomplish above what is actually accomplished.

Amber and mgem wish to show the observers how much their Master/Dom/Sir is worth to them, to elevate their Master in the view of the observers by their appearance and conduct.

J sees what Amber does in light of J himself, as though her actions were all aimed directly, rather than indirectly via the observers. For the sake of conversation, I'll assume mgem's Master sees similarly.

That leads to a communication point. IF one accepts that attitude means more than action... that why something is being done means more than what is done... then one should be sure to understand the attitude, the why.

Lest anyone wonder about my avatar "Results, not excuses" in light of what I just wrote, remember that results accomplished in any old way are not "results," they are consequences. "Results" are good outcomes, accomplished with honor and good attitudes and reasons.

Just my view, for what it's worth.

Gear

Interesting points GJ. I'll try to explain what I see as the "action." I will say however, yes, attitude does have a lot to do with it as my submission to J is certainly a frame of mind and a way of thinking as well as the actions that result.

J and I don't live together, nor are we able to see each other as often as we would like. Whether he comes over to my home, or we meet out and about, I go through the process of fixing up for Him. Granted, this can't happen each and every time, but for the most part I go through almost a ritual. I shower thinking about Him, shave thinking of Him and how He likes me to look in that regard. I select underthings I think he'll be attracted to and outfits a little above and beyond what I might put on normally. As I dress I reflect on Him, our relationship, and the pride put into it. In certain segments of Japanese culture, something as outwardly simple as the preparation of tea is done with actions of great ritual and is taken quite seriously. I see this as something quite similar. I don't wish that observers see and are jealous of my relationship with my Master, I simply use the looks as a simple barometer that I did my job well and presented myself well. Don't get me wrong, when we recieve compliments I enjoy them, but the real pleasure is in the process.

I imagine there is similar ritual in preparing one's dress uniform in the military? I'd be interested in your perspective on that, as your icon shows you to have a Navy background?

interesting, Amber... interesting on two fronts. One, your perspective of what I meant by "attitude" and two, your perspective of what you see as "attitude."

First, the matter of military uniform wear (yes, I am a retired Navy Chief). It has similarities and differences. The similarity is in the pride in wear and proper fit and proper appearance, and there is certainly a ritual involved there, of sorts, by necessity, and it begins when the uniform is sent to the cleaners. The difference is in an objective standard. What that uniform must look like, what undershirt must be worn, what socks must be worn, etc, etc, etc, are all dictated by an authority outside my control.

Next, what I meant by attitude.... I referred to your attitude as shown by your reasoning. You wish, as you said, to reflect well on your Master, and you reason out your preparation, your dressing, and your appearance on that basis, on that attitude. That is as opposed to wishing to show yourself off well for yourself, as an unattached woman might honorably do, which might lead you to the same care in preparation, dressing, and appearance.

I hope I was clear. Feel free to ask anything if I was not or if you want further.

In the end, if my little one appeared to meet me (we are in a similar situation to you and J) in a burlap sack, but she had good reasoning for doing so, I would respond totally differently than if she did not have good reasoning for doing so. I train for her mind to respond properly (and for me, that means clear, sensible, defendable decision making), and I simply know that her body will naturally follow.

Gear.

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Originally Posted by GearJammer{kuriouspet}

Next, what I meant by attitude.... I referred to your attitude as shown by your reasoning. You wish, as you said, to reflect well on your Master, and you reason out your preparation, your dressing, and your appearance on that basis, on that attitude. That is as opposed to wishing to show yourself off well for yourself, as an unattached woman might honorably do, which might lead you to the same care in preparation, dressing, and appearance.

I hope I was clear. Feel free to ask anything if I was not or if you want further.

In the end, if my little one appeared to meet me (we are in a similar situation to you and J) in a burlap sack, but she had good reasoning for doing so, I would respond totally differently than if she did not have good reasoning for doing so. I train for her mind to respond properly (and for me, that means clear, sensible, defendable decision making), and I simply know that her body will naturally follow.

Gear.

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I would actually like clarification on one point, and that is this line, "That is as opposed to wishing to show yourself off well for yourself, as an unattached woman might honorably do, which might lead you to the same care in preparation, dressing, and appearance."

I am not of the mind that reflecting well on my Master is in opposition to wishing to show myself off well. J and I have been together for just over a year. Prior to knowing Him, I still took a great deal of time and care in making sure I presented myself well. I take pride in my appearance now, but this is not a new developement. What I add to the mix for J's sake, is a sexier pair of underwear, perhaps garters, perhaps a a lipstick that is just a shade deeper red -- no more or less pride than what I had before, just custom tailored a touch to make Master smile.

I feel nothing reflects better on my Master than my being a quality person, with or without Him. At this point in my life, doing something for me and doing something for Him tends to be a merging pleasure rather than being points in opposition to each other.

Perhaps I was not clear on that point?

Let me know, I do love a thread that leads to good discussion.

Regards, Amber.

Yet, as you said, you add something, because it is for J. That is the difference that I think clarifies the point. It is not as though you can't do it for yourself if you do it for him, it is that doing it for him adds something that wouldn't be there otherwise.

However, I feel this is afield from the original point. I do not mind, I merely wish to be accurate.

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Originally Posted by GearJammer{kuriouspet}

Yet, as you said, you add something, because it is for J. That is the difference that I think clarifies the point. It is not as though you can't do it for yourself if you do it for him, it is that doing it for him adds something that wouldn't be there otherwise.

However, I feel this is afield from the original point. I do not mind, I merely wish to be accurate.

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Yes, I must admit I never pick out scandelous underthings just for myself...

amber,

I think I already know the answer to this but let me ask you any ways.

Is what you are doing is not just for J and not just for you but to submerge yourself into the submission you feel which pulls you closer to him even when he isn't there?

Does the fact that you are only doing this because you are going to be with him seem important to you or do you find yourself being concerned that as his possession that you have to look your best even when he will not be with you physically because it shows not pride of yourself but pride that you are his?

I feel as the Dom in this relationship I must throw in my two bits. First let me say I really don’t care what Ambers motivation is in how she dresses, this is simply due to the fact that I think she looks incredible always. Whether in a baseball cap and dirty jeans or a tight red dress with nothing underneath or frankly first thing in the morning with “bed-head” and bad breath I find her extremely attractive. How I view her has nothing to do with the lifestyle but with how I feel about her. With that said and to answer the original posting, yes I do dress in a way I know she finds attractive. Even though she has committed to be my sub I still seek ways to please her simply because I am in love with her. This love takes priority over my dominance in the relationship and more than the lifestyle guides how I prepare myself for her. So baby you can count on the suit with suspenders and our favorites flog for a long time! Weg*

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Originally Posted by Sir_Russell

amber,

I think I already know the answer to this but let me ask you any ways.

Is what you are doing is not just for J and not just for you but to submerge yourself into the submission you feel which pulls you closer to him even when he isn't there?

Does the fact that you are only doing this because you are going to be with him seem important to you or do you find yourself being concerned that as his possession that you have to look your best even when he will not be with you physically because it shows not pride of yourself but pride that you are his?

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In answer to the first part, yes. The preparation of getting ready to go out or to a business function has become very ritualistic for me. It always was when I was single, but an element has been added since J: not only do I focus on how I look and act, but I meditate on my Master as well. Not just on what He would think if He saw me, but on many aspects of the relationship: what it would feel like if He were slipping the blazer and skirt I've chosen off of me, what we were doing the last time I wore the outfit I'm wearing, so on and so forth. The time spent puts me in a great head space for me, and for us in our relationship.

As for the second question, again, yes. I am concerned as His posession, even when He is not there, how I look and act. I consider Master to be a fine person, worthy of the best a partner can give to Him. I feel that, as a single person, I was the caliber of person He deserved and so I became available to Him. Now, I strive to maintain that respect I have for myself for myself and for Him as well. As I mentioned earlier, the two emotions/attitudes/motivations aren't separate for me -- they overlap quite beautifully. I know J finds me adorable and loves me even in a ball cap and filthy jeans, and some days, yeah, that's all you're gonna get outta' me, but there's a time for jeans and there's a time for something classier and I wish to respect when those times are for my Master.

For example, when I modeled for the first time I focused on how Master would see me and I how I would look to Him. Being naked in front of a room full of people can be scary for a girl, and thinking of Him and what I would want to look like if He were watching made the situation very peaceful for me.

Hope that answered the questions! ;)

Well, then that ends any need to further discuss the matter as it applies to the specific example provided. Hmmmm

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Originally Posted by J-Go

I feel as the Dom in this relationship I must throw in my two bits. First let me say I really don’t care what Ambers motivation is in how she dresses, this is simply due to the fact that I think she looks incredible always. Whether in a baseball cap and dirty jeans or a tight red dress with nothing underneath or frankly first thing in the morning with “bed-head” and bad breath I find her extremely attractive. How I view her has nothing to do with the lifestyle but with how I feel about her. With that said and to answer the original posting, yes I do dress in a way I know she finds attractive. Even though she has committed to be my sub I still seek ways to please her simply because I am in love with her. This love takes priority over my dominance in the relationship and more than the lifestyle guides how I prepare myself for her. So baby you can count on the suit with suspenders and our favorites flog for a long time! Weg*

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Oh dear God the suit makes me weak in the knees... *trembles* Have I told you lately how complete my adoration is for you? I love you completely.

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Originally Posted by J-Go

I feel as the Dom in this relationship I must throw in my two bits. First let me say I really don’t care what Ambers motivation is in how she dresses, this is simply due to the fact that I think she looks incredible always. Whether in a baseball cap and dirty jeans or a tight red dress with nothing underneath or frankly first thing in the morning with “bed-head” and bad breath I find her extremely attractive. How I view her has nothing to do with the lifestyle but with how I feel about her. With that said and to answer the original posting, yes I do dress in a way I know she finds attractive. Even though she has committed to be my sub I still seek ways to please her simply because I am in love with her. This love takes priority over my dominance in the relationship and more than the lifestyle guides how I prepare myself for her. So baby you can count on the suit with suspenders and our favorites flog for a long time! Weg*

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That is the sweetest sexiest thing any woman can hear. Very nice and well done.

Very well said J-Go - that's awesome for both of you!!

Amber & Gear - great debate, i've enjoyed very much reading it through :D

P.S. Gear - I don't have a Master but still like to present myself well everytime i leave the house if i can and yes, sometimes there are days when all you'll get is a tank top and a pair of dancer pants lol but i consider myself a lady always and enjoy the feeling of looking like one, even when i'm being a tom-boy and having beers with the boys ;) :D

mgem, just wanted you to know your note to me was seen, and appreciated. Thank you.

I ask one of my girls to wear a certain outfit for me one day a week. It's a great feeling when I wake up that morning & know she's dressing to please me. :)

She's not a member of this forum & can't speak for herself, but she seems to enjoy doing it. The knowledge that she's doing it to please me, & being aware that 'I know what she's wearing next to her skin' seem to be part of the appeal.