The Price of Rat Meat Quadruples in Cambodia

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Originally Posted by Reuters

PHNOM PENH (Reuters) - The price of rat meat has quadrupled in Cambodia this year as inflation has put other meat beyond the reach of poor people, officials said on Wednesday.

With consumer price inflation at 37 percent according to the latest central bank estimate, demand has pushed a kilogram of rat meat up to around 5,000 riel ($1.28) from 1,200 riel last year.

Spicy field rat dishes with garlic thrown in have become particularly popular at a time when beef costs 20,000 riel a kg.

Officials said rats were fleeing to higher ground from flooded areas of the lower Mekong Delta, making it easier for villagers to catch them.

"Many children are happy making some money from selling the animals to the markets, but they keep some for their family," Ly Marong, an agriculture official, said by telephone from the Koh Thom district on the border with Vietnam.

"Not only are our poor eating it, but there is also demand from Vietnamese living on the border with us."

He estimated that Cambodia supplied more than a tonne of live rats a day to Vietnam.

Rats are also eaten widely in Thailand, while a state government in eastern India this month encouraged its people to eat rats in an effort to battle soaring food prices and save grain stocks.

($1 = 3,900 riel)

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Funniest part of this article: "Many children are happy making some money from selling the animals to the markets, but they keep some for their family," Ly Marong, an agriculture official

Happy? I'm sure they're thrilled...

Foreign nations and aid groups have pledged 1.6 billion euros of aid for Cambodia over the next 7 years. While they'll probably default (which is normative for foreign aid - I wish I could treat my drunken, late night pledges to the ACLU like that), it actually doesn't matter, because Cambodia is Transparency International's 13th most corrupt nation in the world. Any aid that does get sent will be sold and confiscated, and eventually find its way into the g-strings of Cambodian prostitutes. This is not substantially different than the outcome if the foreign diplomats would just come to Cambodia on vacation themselves.

Bonus fact:
70% of Cambodia was covered in rain forest in 1970. Now its 3.1% <source>

Good gravey gertie,,,,

if economic sanctions are used wont this just make the situation worse???

what other recourse could there be to helping thier people? Military inforced aide distribution as was first tired in ****lia,,,temporary fix at best perhaps.

The best form of foreign aid is for foreign companies to open subsidiaries in the country to provide jobs and export revenues.

I don't quite see the point in the post. Anything wrong or funny in people eating rats or kids earning money for poor parent. Anything new in corruption, inflation or raping the environment for profit. Maybe the point should be how although oil prices hurt USA in other parts of the world they can mean the difference between beef or rat for dinner. A hurricane heads towards america and the price of oil goes up and probably the price of ratmeat in Cambodia too. This oil speculation is crazy and the commodities markets are simply a casino for the super rich. Nothing wrong with gambling but their bets affect peoples lives!

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Originally Posted by MacGuffin

The best form of foreign aid is for foreign companies to open subsidiaries in the country to provide jobs and export revenues.

...

I don't quite see the point in the post. Anything wrong or funny in people eating rats or kids earning money for poor parent. Anything new in corruption, inflation or raping the environment for profit.

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I think you meant 'nothing' in place of 'anything' above, right? If I understand you correctly, I disagree. Rat is not a delicacy in Cambodia; its a meat of last resort. They'd rather eat fish or beef, but in the former case, coastal fish are basically depleted... and beef has been pushed into margins those of us in the industrialized nations would have a hard time affording.

As to the suggestion of subsidizing a nation by increased corporatization, rest assured, they're trying that... in fact, that's the (current) reason Cambodia's poor are being throttled. Cambodia has privatized almost all of their natural resources, and they've been consumed with amazing speed... who do you think cut down 95.5% of the rain forest in the country in 30 years? Peasants?

Further... who do you think profited from clear-cutting 46726 square miles of forest? Peasants? No, I categorically disagree that increased capitalism is the solution to Cambodian poverty.

To the question of the "point" of this post, I can only say that if you don't think there is something hilarious about a government official claiming that children are happy to hunt rats for dinner, you may be in need of a holiday in Cambodia.

now the DK song reference is funny

what soulution do you propose? i havent a clue as to how to help them, history points to a lot of solutions that havent worked, everything from sending in the marines to sally struthers

Where in my post did I suggest rat is considered a delicacy. Reuters did I didn't. You are disagreeing with article you yourself posted not my post. I agree Cambodians would rather eat beef, but rat is not the last resort food one may think. Rat like dogmeat is a poor man's food much like rabbit is considered in England. Eating rat does not have the social stigma it does in the west.
Regarding "increased corporatization", my point was in response to denu pointing out that foreign aid gets stolen and asking "what other recourse could there be". I suggested foreign investment not aid. Almost every government in the world, including my own England, seeks to attact foreign investment so I am not surprised Cambodia is also. I never suggested the Cambodian government wasn't. I was suggesting western governments could encourage multinationals to open factories there to provide jobs and stimulate the economy as an alternative to aid. You disagree that increased capitalism is a solution for Cambodia. Well it works for America and Europe and worked for the Asian Tigers and newly devloped nations. What alternative do you see, surely not peasant farmers and smallholdings.
I didn't follow your leap from foreign investment instead of foreign aid to who is cutting down trees. I know who is cutting down the trees and never suggested it was the peasants. The reuters report attributed the increase in rat eating to floods and rats being easies to catch coupled with the increase in the price of beef. What is the relationship between deforestation and beef price increase. Deforestation has been going on for years. It has not suddenly increased. I was suggesting that just as the sharp increase in food prices in America is due to oil prices the same is true in Cambodia, but the effects are far greater in Cambodia than America.
You find it "hilarious" that a government official says the kids are happy hunting rat. I find nothing a hilarious in kids having to hunt rat to support their family. I would find nothing hilarious in a corrupt government official from a third world country misleading people. no more than I if the American President did. I do believe that South East Asian rural children find it fun catching rats just as Americans find it find to go raccoon hunting. But, if you read the report you posted you will note the official did not say they the kids were happy rat hunting, he said they were happy "making some money" and I am sure that is true. Are you telling me that american kids aren't thrilled to make money.
Your post seemed to have a mocking air to it, which disturbed me and prompted my reply. You suggest that misappropriated foreign aid will "eventually find its way into the g-strings of Cambodian prostitutes". This seems to promote the sterotype that all South East Asian countries have is prostitutes. It's they have prosititutes and it's true cheap prostitutes is the reason many westerners are "in need of a holiday in Cambodia" but I didn't see the reason for that mocking jibe. America has prostitutes and US politicians aren't averse to using them as Governor Spitzer recently demonstrated. Somehow I don't think the prostitutes' g-strings are big enough to hold the millions of dollars stolen from aid. I find it more probable those stolen millions are in America invested in american bluechips or in the hands of american arms manufacturers.
And for your information I have lived, not vacationed, many years in South East Asia and have eaten rat, dog and even pussy!

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Originally Posted by MacGuffin

And for your information I have lived, not vacationed, many years in South East Asia and have eaten rat, dog and even pussy!

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Not overcooked, I hope. It's always better with a little pink inside! :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by MacGuffin

Your post seemed to have a mocking air to it, which disturbed me and prompted my reply.

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I'm not mocking you, though I do think you're demonstrably wrong. If I seem abrasive, I apologize, and I hope you no longer feel that I'm mocking you, yet continue to reply anyway.

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Originally Posted by MacGuffin

Where in my post did I suggest rat is considered a delicacy. Reuters did I didn't. You are disagreeing with article you yourself posted not my post.

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I can't find that anywhere in the article. You're right though that you didn't say that rat meat was a delicacy. I never said you did, either. There are two other instances where you claim some of my simply factual statements are meant as claims of ignorance on your behalf; when I cite a fact there is not a concurrent implication that you specifically didn't know it.

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Originally Posted by MacGuffin

I agree Cambodians would rather eat beef, but rat is not the last resort food one may think. Rat like dogmeat is a poor man's food much like rabbit is considered in England. Eating rat does not have the social stigma it does in the west.

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I think you're splitting hairs to distinguish between "poor man's food" and "last resort food" in a country where so many die of malnutrition every year. I will agree that it doesn't have the same social stigma though; do you think that might be because the people who can afford rat get to watch the people who can't die in the street?

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Originally Posted by MacGuffin

Regarding "increased corporatization", my point was in response to denu

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If your replies are specific to one individual, and you'd rather not have others comment on them, you can always private message them I suppose. Or do you just mean you'd rather I not reply to you in general?

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Originally Posted by MacGuffin

I was suggesting western governments could encourage multinationals to open factories there to provide jobs and stimulate the economy as an alternative to aid. You disagree that increased capitalism is a solution for Cambodia. Well it works for America and Europe and worked for the Asian Tigers and newly devloped nations...

...I didn't follow your leap from foreign investment instead of foreign aid to who is cutting down trees.

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a.) The Asian Tigers attracted foreign investment while retaining tight state controls on profits from natural resources. The Chinese government makes a killing on their rape of the country's few remaining lumber stands. Cambodia, contrarily, is exporting natural resources with only individual benefit.

b.) I am not going to take the time to talk about the differences between Cambodia aspiring to an industrial standard of living in the 21st century and Europe and America doing it in the 19th century. That would be a book. If you think there is any merit to this simile, then consider me to have conceded to you.

Maybe I'm being confusing. Here's a clear premise: Cambodia's forests were cut, primarily, by Western lumber concerns. There had to have been a terrific amount of money made in the clear-cutting of Cambodia's forest. That the vast majority of the people still suffer in abject poverty seems like a clear demonstration that foreign investment, such as that of lumber permits, is ineffective (and in fact, only serves to enrich those who already have more wealth than any human needs).

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Originally Posted by MacGuffin

What is the relationship between deforestation and beef price increase.

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Other than they're both emblematic of a nation in crisis where the poor are getting screwed extra hard? Regardless, I didn't say there was a relationship deeper than nationality.

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Originally Posted by MacGuffin

Deforestation has been going on for years. It has not suddenly increased.

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I suppose it depends on your time scale. Its been going on for less than 40 years. To go from 70% forest to 3.1% forest that quick seems pretty sudden to me. Most importantly though, the people didn't benefit.

As to your last two paragraphs... I was making what I thought was an obvious attempt at humor (Denu got it, at least). I have no interest in defending the epistemological accuracy of statements made in jest.

Virulent

I'm not mocking you, though I do think you're demonstrably wrong.

I'm not suggesting you did mock me. How could mocking me prompt me to make an initial post. Your "hilarious" and "g-strings of prostitutes" remarks seemed to me to mock Cambodia. Nowhere in your original post did I detect sympathy for the plight of Cambodians, only ridicule eg "funniest part about this article".

I can only say that if you don't think there is something hilarious about a government official claiming that children are happy to hunt rats for dinner, you may be in need of a holiday in Cambodia.

We will have to agree to disagree on this one. I don't find it hilarious when government officials, corrupt or not, from devoloping or developed countries, lie to the people. In this case however I don't think he lied because I think every kid is happy to get money no matter how. I dispute that a holiday in Cambodia would somehow change my view and find that to be an unecessary and flippant remark. And in my experience the western temple visiting tourists usually come away with the wrong impression.

You're right though that you didn't say that rat meat was a delicacy. I never said you did, either.

True Reuters did not use the word delicacy but with "Spicy field rat dishes with garlic" the implication of a dish not a meal does suggest a delicacy. True you did not suggest I said it was a delicacy, I misread, my apologies. As to rat being last resort and me splitting hairs let me clarify. Last resort to me implies the sort of thing you see in survival scenario's like cannibalism. I was suggesting rat eating is not considered so terrible and when cooked with the "garlic and spices" can taste pretty good. Its the sort of thing where Cambodians are quite happy to eat not out of necessity but maybe to save money or simply as a change.

If your replies are specific to one individual, and you'd rather not have others comment on them, you can always private message them I suppose. Or do you just mean you'd rather I not reply to you in general?

To clarify, my comments (about foreign investment) were in response to denu asking "what other recourse could there be". She raised the point in this thread so I responded in this thread. Of course all comments on my posts are welcomed, did I suggest otherwise? Sending private messages in response to public posts would defeat the object of a discussion board would it not.

Cambodia's forests were cut, primarily, by Western lumber concerns. There had to have been a terrific amount of money made in the clear-cutting of Cambodia's forest. That the vast majority of the people still suffer in abject poverty seems like a clear demonstration that foreign investment, such as that of lumber permits, is ineffective

Yes of course, although I am not sure that this sort of activity is called foreign investment. Even so, you are taking an extreme case of foreign investment. I meant investment as in establishing subsidiaries and factories in a way similar to what has happened in neighbouring Thailand. Now surely a multinational with a factory employing thousands goes some way to helping or would that also be ineffective.

Most importantly though, the people didn't benefit.

Regarding deforestation, I agree with you entirely. But it's no different in Cambodia than in other developing or underdeveloped nations. It's a global problem not just a Cambodian one. I think an article on the price of rat then comments about deforestation threw me, I didn't see the correlation, but no matter.

I was making what I thought was an obvious attempt at humor (Denu got it, at least).

Both you and denu find humour in a government official saying "Many children are happy making some money from selling the animals to the markets". Fair enough, I have a different sense of humour from you and denu.

I have no interest in defending the epistemological accuracy of statements made in jest.

Fair enough, I have no desire to debate the humour of rat trapping or eating so it's best if I just walk away and leave you guys to it.

Let me be very clear.

The only humor I found in this thread (other than the back and forth dual critic exchange common to socraticly trainned debaters) (which may seem overly critical, but as i understand it perspectives being possible and to often relavent if not too personel, as the basis for avoiding socratic methods)-which is one reason its no longer used in schools as its often detractable from the real goal of programing us,(yes i am being silly if not ironic)~ side tracked i know :

is the single reference to what i saw as a reference to a Dead Kenedys Title Song (80's punk band) called "Holiday in Cambodia".

Which BTW had nothing to do with the threads topic and i perhaps shouldnt have posted it, becuase it surely seems to have conffused.

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Originally Posted by Virulent

<link>

Funniest part of this article: "Many children are happy making some money from selling the animals to the markets, but they keep some for their family," Ly Marong, an agriculture official

Happy? I'm sure they're thrilled...

Foreign nations and aid groups have pledged 1.6 billion euros of aid for Cambodia over the next 7 years. While they'll probably default (which is normative for foreign aid - I wish I could treat my drunken, late night pledges to the ACLU like that), it actually doesn't matter, because Cambodia is Transparency International's 13th most corrupt nation in the world. Any aid that does get sent will be sold and confiscated, and eventually find its way into the g-strings of Cambodian prostitutes. This is not substantially different than the outcome if the foreign diplomats would just come to Cambodia on vacation themselves.

Bonus fact:
70% of Cambodia was covered in rain forest in 1970. Now its 3.1% <source>

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Well, im a little confused i guess. In general it seems to me to be a very practical solution to a given problem. The people need food. The people are willing to eat rat. There are rats that need disposing of to save grain stores. It seems to me like a double win in a sad situation- increasing food with an available meat supply and decreasing rat population to save food the rats would eat or ruin otherwise. (And with the forests cut down they likely are over run with rats.)

im sorry for them that things are so bad and i would wish better options for them, for anyone.

If no help will reach them then what else is there to do but sympathize and respect the people's efforts to not starve? They're doing what they can with what they have. It's certainly not a laughing matter.

Perhaps im seeing it wrong..?