Is it pride?

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09-28-2008
jeanne

Is it pride?

"It's a pride thing for a submissive I think, to know her Dom will take and still want more...and to have belief that she can provide it."

This statement, by me, was from a conversation last night. As I wrote it, I realized how really true it is for me. There's a power and pride in knowing that the farther we went, the more he took...and the more I wanted to give. The more I had to give. I found that knowledge and belief in myself very gratifying.

What are your thoughts on the pride aspect of submission? Thanks in advance for sharing! :wave:
09-28-2008
denuseri

Only the slave is completely open to her owner in all ways, there are no secrets, no hidden desires, she is naked before Him in all. She bares forth her essence to him in everything, and he deepens her servitude with his strength over her, for she is his most cherished property. In this the slave has nothing but utter trust and total devotion to her owner. Even her own deepest fears must be put aside to please her owners desires. No free woman can truely give this much of herself. It is something truely rare in the world.

It takes great courage to submit in this fashion.

So be proud.

'"There is a difference' laughed Hassan, 'between the pride of a free woman and the pride of the slave girl. The pride of a free woman is the pride of a woman who feels herself to be the equal of a man.
The pride of the slave girl is the pride of the girl who knows that no other woman is the equal of herself."

Tribesmen of Gor, page 333
09-28-2008
Ozme52

So long as terms like subordinate, submissive, and slave, can exist on a continuum of level of service... and that the boundary where subordinate becomes submissive and the boundary where submissive becomes slave, can be flexible... and unique to each couple...

...then I agree denuseri.

jeanne, I suspect, will never be a slave per se, but may well practice submission at a level that in indistinguishable to some from slave.
10-08-2008
tessa

Quote:

Originally Posted by denuseri

'"There is a difference' laughed Hassan, 'between the pride of a free woman and the pride of the slave girl. The pride of a free woman is the pride of a woman who feels herself to be the equal of a man.
The pride of the slave girl is the pride of the girl who knows that no other woman is the equal of herself."

Love that! Every word.

I was always taught that "pride goeth before a fall". Well, with the perspective I have now, my idea on that has morphed somewhat. Now I believe that if that "fall" includes kneeling at His feet to do His will, then the pride is properly placed. And rightly deserved. A submissive with no pride has little to offer her/himself or any other, it seems to me.

:wave:
10-08-2008
PropertyOfMasterJoey

i take alot of pride in knowing that i'm the one Master picked (and will be collaring soon tehe yay http://www.neimanmarcus.com/store/ca...NMAYSSPProduct ) and also that i'm capable of pleasing Him in a way no one else can. It's funny because outside of O/our relationship i'm a strong, independent woman and He's a laid-back kind of guy so i also take pride in the fact that someonee who usually doesn't want responsibility would want a responsibility as big as being in control of life all because of...well whatever it is about me lol i dunno it makes sense to me.
10-09-2008
Flaming_Redhead

Pride definitely has its place, albeit a very small one. I feel proud when I've accomplished something. I can have a sense of pride and feel special for being the chosen one of a partner I admire. However, pride has a negative connotation to me. It implies conceit and egotism rather than healthy self-esteem. When I am submitting, I go through a range of emotions including but not limited to joy, despair, humility, gratefulness, fear, desire, and love, but the greatest of these is love. There is no room for pride when you're crawling and begging to be used or telling all your innermost secrets of the heart.
10-09-2008
denuseri

The pride comes after. When you realize wow yes that was me back there doing that, and he is proud of me for having done it so well. So i am proud of myself.

Pride according to oxford: a deep pleasure or satisfaction gained from achievements, qualities, or possessions.

Only when taken to the extremes of self gratification to the exclusion of others does it approach the hubris end of Aristotles golden mean and become a negative thing.

But that is what niestche complained about with the trans-valuation of values.

Current liberal educational principles seem to want to make us think it is wrong to be proud, so we are ever wary of using the word. So the social conotation of many words has been twisted. The politically correct way must be used instead now. Like saying humanity or personkind as opposed to mankind etc etc the list goes on.

Healthy self esteem is pride wearing politically correct clothes.
10-09-2008
delish

Looking at the thread title, "Is it pride?" it somewhat sounds like you're using the word in a negative slant, as though you hope the answer is no. Reading your post, however, it sounds very positive. When you're asking for our take on it, are you asking if it's good or bad, or are you asking what role it plays in our submission?

As you know, this is a topic that is near and dear to me right now, though not precisely the same thing. I have tried and tried to think of a response to your posting, and the best thing I've come up with yet has been to include another of the deadly sins: Envy. I'm jealous of that feeling, for many reasons; Primarily because of the confidence it shows, I think.

I think that without pride in my own submission, I wouldn't be able to do it at all. How can I not feel pleased with myself, knowing that I've caused such pleasure? I can't imagine what could take the place of that pride, in fact.

Now I just want to have a higher level of pride. I want to be able to quote you, and say, "That is exactly how I feel." :)
10-09-2008
SubmissiveDoll

Quote:

Originally Posted by denuseri

[I][COLOR="LemonChiffon"]

'"There is a difference' laughed Hassan, 'between the pride of a free woman and the pride of the slave girl. The pride of a free woman is the pride of a woman who feels herself to be the equal of a man.
The pride of the slave girl is the pride of the girl who knows that no other woman is the equal of herself."

Tribesmen of Gor, page 333

Wow. I still haven't had the pleasure of reading the series. I'd really like to though. But, that quote is absolutely beautiful, and truer than anything I've ever heard.
10-10-2008
bip0lar

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flaming_Redhead

There is no room for pride when you're crawling and begging to be used or telling all your innermost secrets of the heart.

Oh i have to disagree. I have felt extremely proud when having withstood things I wouldn't have imagined possible--but what I'm really proud about, for myself, is knowing that I could handle it. With difficulty, yes, while crawling and begging to be used and in any state HE wanted me to be, but when HE was proud that I could do it, it would make me doubly proud. I think that's a reason I like marks, as well--it was kind of a 'reason', if you want, for me to be proud.
10-10-2008
SubmissiveDoll

Quote:

Originally Posted by bip0lar

Oh i have to disagree. I have felt extremely proud when having withstood things I wouldn't have imagined possible--but what I'm really proud about, for myself, is knowing that I could handle it. With difficulty, yes, while crawling and begging to be used and in any state HE wanted me to be, but when HE was proud that I could do it, it would make me doubly proud. I think that's a reason I like marks, as well--it was kind of a 'reason', if you want, for me to be proud.

And I have to agree with bip0lar. I am very proud of myself when I do exactly what is asked of me. My Master wants me to be proud of myself. He wants me to be proud and happy. When I please Him I am proud. No that is not a bad thing. Being prideful is different from being proud of yourself. I think this is where some of the confusion is coming from. Self esteem is pride in oneself. Being prideful is being egotistical and conceited. I am proud of myself, and my station in life, and there is nothing wrong with that.
10-13-2008
AdrianaAurora

Is it pride? I don't feel that it makes me something special or that is a competition of some kind. We change, we learn, but we still remain ourselves. I still have a sense of honor, pride, humiliation, embarrassment. I still struggle. But I still obey. Why? Because we have an enough sense of familiarity and trust for me to be sure it is not His intention to humiliate me. Some orders still make me cringe, not understanding why He gives them - but in doing them lies comprehension - the purpose of which is to explore, to liberate. He enjoys seeing His submissive doing His bidding. When He sees me try, when I complete it to His satisfaction, when He utters those two words, "Good girl," - it makes me feel warm, it makes me glow, it makes me grow as a person and it makes me feel good about myself. Is that pride, I don't know, but yes, I do feel it.