Big Difference or Similarity Minute?

Hello people,

I am fairly new to the scene, and have been in my first Ds-lifestyle relationship for a year and nine months now. Having read a few books, done some web-surfing, and had a rather bad experience with a fetish/Ds group, I still have just about as many questions as I did when I started. I am the proud Dominant of my kitten, and have been negotiating the level of control over my pet. Currently, the following discussion has been on my mind quite a bit after seeing the diversity within the community. I welcome all responses, even if I don't share your view.

There are many debates about "What is a Dom/sub?" I am speaking of general terms and not differentiating between Tops Doms Masters/bottoms subs slaves, so you get the point. Is it a regular person who enjoys kinky sex? Is it someone who seeks to extend their personality into the bedroom and beyond through fetish and leather? Is it someone who seeks spiritual allignment and "freedom" (in the Buddhist, Hinduist sense, from the suffering of the human condition)? Yes, it is all of these, and this is how we get the confusing nomenclature.

So here is I think a relevant question that I have rarely seen addressed: What is the mentality of the Dom and sub? I have met many people who are just in it for fun, and those who seem to be able to relate it at the spiritual level. However, do the Dom and sub share a similar "cosmic inclination?" Do all Doms, or all subs? A sub may enjoy serving, but a Dom may enjoy controlling things so everyone is happy. A sub may have more control over a scene because of limits and preference, but a Dom may be holding the whip. Do you see my point?

Should we, as leather-folk, adopt a more black-and-white, logical point of view, or a view that encompasses the entirety of the spectrum with no arbitrary distinctions? Well, there really is no should about it, everyone must find their own balance. But is it more useful one way or the other? Is there a more useful mindset to be in while "in-scene?" Certainly such strict adherence to one mentality cannot be beneficial in all situations, perhaps not even in all scenes.

If A then not B. If not A then B. If not A and not B, yet also A and B, then what?

I would appreciate suggestions for other places to post.

Pope.

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Originally Posted by PopeRozen

...Should we... adopt a more black-and-white, logical point of view, or a view that encompasses the entirety of the spectrum with no arbitrary distinctions? Well, there really is no should about it, everyone must find their own balance. But is it more useful one way or the other? Is there a more useful mindset to be in while "in-scene?" Certainly such strict adherence to one mentality cannot be beneficial in all situations, perhaps not even in all scenes.

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I guess you pretty much answered your own question there.

To put it another way, I view definitions and labels as limits. So everytime I ask myself those very questions you posted I also ask myself: Do I want any limits as to What, How and Who I want to be?

As a sub I can tell tou not all dom/mes think alike. They are all into it for wildly different reasons and you can see it in the way they play. Similarily, I do not believe two subs go into the lifestyle for the same reason.

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Originally Posted by PopeRozen

Hello people,
There are many debates about "What is a Dom/sub?" I am speaking of general terms and not differentiating between Tops Doms Masters/bottoms subs slaves, so you get the point. Is it a regular person who enjoys kinky sex? Is it someone who seeks to extend their personality into the bedroom and beyond through fetish and leather? Is it someone who seeks spiritual allignment and "freedom" (in the Buddhist, Hinduist sense, from the suffering of the human condition)? Yes, it is all of these, and this is how we get the confusing nomenclature.
So here is I think a relevant question that I have rarely seen addressed: What is the mentality of the Dom and sub? I have met many people who are just in it for fun, and those who seem to be able to relate it at the spiritual level. However, do the Dom and sub share a similar "cosmic inclination?" Do all Doms, or all subs? A sub may enjoy serving, but a Dom may enjoy controlling things so everyone is happy. A sub may have more control over a scene because of limits and preference, but a Dom may be holding the whip. Do you see my point?
Pope.

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A Dom is someone who likes being/feeling as though he is in control, yet is willing to trade that at a moment's notice. For example, a true Dom needs to be in control of a scene, needs to care about the sub and observe the sub's limits, and know how and where and when to push those limits. However, if the play does go too far, the Dom needs to know/learn when to stop, how to differentiate between the sub's cries of 'stop' as in, 'I like this, go on' and when 'stop' really means 'stop now, i can't do this anymore!'
A sub is someone who learns to give up control of their body, to trust that the dom will not hurt beyond the sub's capacity to bear, to give even when sometimes the sub doesn't feel like giving. (conversely, the Dom needs to sense when a sub doesn't feel like giving but does it anyway to satisfy the Dom because they love the Dom and want to make the Dom happy, and needs to not take advantage of that willingness.)
Both sides have to love/care, take responsibility for the well being fo the other, and trust each other. There are many D/s relationships out there that don't involve the trust/care/responsibility element, and any D/S relationship that doesn't have those is bordering on abuse. Consensual is a vital part of the relationship, but it isn't everything.
It's not a complete answer, by any means, but it's a start.

Thanks,

Nikka: Yeah, I forget sometimes that everyone has their own motivations. Even book authors write for different reasons, and its important not to get bogged down by definitions and categories. Thats one of the beautiful things about this scene, YKOK.

jaeangel: Love/care is something not often emphasized when you are exposed to BDSM, especially on an entertainment-level. Its nice to hear someone else with the mentality "Doms/subs are people too." Unfortunately I've ran across some control-freaks and sadists who weren't looking out for anyone but themselves. I'm sure that's not a new story by any means. I'm saddened to think of how often it must keep recurring.

Anyways thanks for the feedback! :)

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Originally Posted by PopeRozen

Love/care is something not often emphasized when you are exposed to BDSM, especially on an entertainment-level...I've ran across some control-freaks and sadists who weren't looking out for anyone but themselves.

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I've had the opposite experience with my (admittedly somewhat limited by age and circumstance) experience. I've mostly seen the love/care aspect portrayed as extremely vital to any relationship. Then again my background is D/S & B/D, not S/M. I wonder if that might have made a difference?

mythicat,

Yeah, I definetly think it does. I was raised to fear fetish...we were'nt even allowed to watch James BOND movies when I was growing up, because of my born-again control-freak parents. So of course they emphasised things like abuse and torture and made no mention of love. This definetly skewed my perspectives, but fortunately also made me very curious...a little TOO curious!

Pope

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Originally Posted by PopeRozen

mythicat,

Yeah, I definetly think it does. I was raised to fear fetish...we were'nt even allowed to watch James BOND movies when I was growing up, because of my born-again control-freak parents. So of course they emphasised things like abuse and torture and made no mention of love. This definetly skewed my perspectives, but fortunately also made me very curious...a little TOO curious!

Pope

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lol...woops! hehe

If it's any consolation I had a moderate religious upbringing (mom was a church secretary who didn't like to go back to work on Sunday :D) by parents who were...relatively...open-minded about sex so long as they themselves didn't have to talk openly about it :rolleyes: and I still ended up kinky.

I think I was born a little TOO curious!

meow

mythic,

Don't worry, you didn't scratch up anyone's post, :cool:

Keep purrin
Pope

Andi,

I thought it was a great post, as I have had to deal with a crying sub a few times myself. Although I'm not always sure what's going on in her mind, in fact quite rarely, when she starts crying I know we've gotta take 5 and sort things out. I guess lots of times it emotional overload, coupled with the physical stress.

The dividing line is funny too, my sub/gf said she had "wanted to be mine." This was really confusing for me, does she want to be a 24/7 slave? Does she want to only be my sub? Or does she just want a committment. And I do use the terms "pet" and "kitten" to talk to her and describe her, but she is not always acting like a pet or a kitten, and is reluctant to conform to that "type" of submissive. One of the hardest things is defining roles, and what we've come to agreement upon is that as a couple, we should not try to hard to fit any Ds "role."

You know, in the end, it's not really about fitting into any one role, one preconceived notion of what a Dom should be and what a sub should be. You need to be whatever makes you and your significan other comfortable. Talk to each other. Listen to each other. And in the end, reach a middle ground and be happy with it. There are a lot of so-called 'experts' in BDSM who will tell you that a sub has to be like this, and a Dom has to be like that. Don't listen to them. Find the place where you are happy, with yourself and with your partner, and toss what everyone else says out the window. Because it's only you two in the relationship; not them.

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Originally Posted by jaeangel

There are a lot of so-called 'experts' in BDSM who will tell you that a sub has to be like this, and a Dom has to be like that. Don't listen to them.

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Well said jaeangel.

That's like telling you that man must be like this and a woman must be like that. Or a house must be like this, or a wardrobe like that, or a reality tv program like the other.

Spike

or a hairstyle, or a car, or a mutter mutter mutter