Are Palestinians an invented people?

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12-11-2011
IAN 2411

Are Palestinians an invented people?

The Palestinian premier on Saturday slammed US presidential hopeful Newt Gingrich for belittling the Palestinians as an "invented" people and demanded an apology.

Gingrich, leading in some national polls for the Republican Party nomination, made the comments in a Friday interview to be aired with the Jewish Channel satellite television.

Prime Minister Salam Fayyad called on Gingrich to apologise for his "vulgar, hurtful and ridiculous remarks", during a meeting with journalists in the West Bank town of Ramallah.

Gingrich's characterisation "constituted a totally unacceptable distortion of historical truth", he said, stressing that in Israel "even the most extremist settlers don't dare to speak in such a ridiculous manner."

Fayyad, whose people have controversially applied for UN recognition as a state, insisted: "Our people have been on this land from the beginning. And it is determined to stay until the end."

In the interview, Gingrich, a former House speaker who has surged in public opinion polls, said: "We've had an invented Palestinian people, who are in fact Arabs, and were historically part of the Arab community."

"And they had a chance to go many places. And for a variety of political reasons we have sustained this war against Israel now since the 1940's, and I think it's tragic."

Gingrich also declared his world view was "pretty close" to that of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and vowed to take "a much more tougher-minded, and much more honest approach to the Middle East" if elected.
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Well I hope to hell he is not elected, because to talk like that is sure to fire up the Palestinian people, if not most of the Middle East. The whole world knows that the USA pander to the Israelis when it comes to voting time, but I think he is taking things a little too far. Through talk like that will cause a lot of bloodshed but all that he cares about is a few votes.
You could say the same thing about Americans, Australians, New Zealanders etc, that they are an invented people as they were English originally. So the question is, is this a matter of the pot calling the kettle black, or is he talking crap.

Be well IAN 2411
12-11-2011
Thorne

Quote:

Originally Posted by IAN 2411

You could say the same thing about Americans, Australians, New Zealanders etc, that they are an invented people as they were English originally.

Even the English are an invented people. Angles, Saxons, Normans, Picts, they all played a part in the development of England. Americans are English, African, German, Polish, Czech, Italian, Chinese, etc., etc. ALL nations are basically an invented "people". In fact, we are all just people.

Quote:

So the question is, is this a matter of the pot calling the kettle black, or is he talking crap.

He's a politician. By definition, he's talking crap.
12-11-2011
IAN 2411

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thorne

Even the English are an invented people. Angles, Saxons, Normans, Picts, they all played a part in the development of England. Americans are English, African, German, Polish, Czech, Italian, Chinese, etc., etc. ALL nations are basically an invented "people". In fact, we are all just people.

Yes i admit you do have a point.
12-11-2011
klad0089

just a stupid statement which will probably make US lose its role in the middle east peace negotiations if he wins
12-11-2011
lucy

There are peace negotiations?
12-11-2011
Thorne

There are ALWAYS peace negotiations. As in, "We'll trade one of yours for fifty of ours!"
12-12-2011
IAN 2411

Quote:

Originally Posted by klad0089

just a stupid statement which will probably make US lose its role in the middle east peace negotiations if he wins

I don’t think it was a stupid statement, in my opinion it was well thought out and aimed directly at the people that would help him get elected. I believe that if the Americans backed the Palestinians and relied on their vote, he would have been saying the same about Israel.
As for peace negotiations, the Americans have not really done anything constructive because of their bias for Israel. To be of any use to the peace negotiations there has to be a country that has no ties with either the Palestinians or Israel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thorne

There are ALWAYS peace negotiations. As in, "We'll trade one of yours for fifty of ours!"

Just asking out of curiosity, trade one of what? and who do you mean when you say “We’ll and Ours?”

Be well IAN 2411
12-12-2011
lucy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thorne

There are ALWAYS peace negotiations. As in, "We'll trade one of yours for fifty of ours!"

I thought it was more like: «We'll build a new settlement on the West Bank for every missile that falls on Sderot.»
12-12-2011
Thorne

Quote:

Originally Posted by IAN 2411

Just asking out of curiosity, trade one of what? and who do you mean when you say “We’ll and Ours?”

It's a reference to the recent incident in which the Palestinians agreed to release a single captured Israeli soldier in exchange for the release of a large number of Palestinian prisoners (I don't recall the exact number.)
12-12-2011
Thorne

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucy

I thought it was more like: «We'll build a new settlement on the West Bank for every missile that falls on Sderot.»

Yeah, that's another valid "peace negotiation" tactic.

But I look upon it as being no less "moral" than the British, French, Spanish, and others, establishing colonies in the New World, at the expense of the natives, or than the Americans and Canadians moving West, at the expense of the Indians (Native Americans, to be PC). Really, no less acceptable than all of the nations who colonized Africa, with little regard for those who lived there first. It's a negotiation tactic with a long history of success. Goes all the way back to Moog driving Glorg and his family from their cave that first winter.
12-12-2011
lucy

Yeah, it all started with Moog. The bastard!
12-12-2011
klad0089

Quote:

Originally Posted by IAN 2411

I don’t think it was a stupid statement, in my opinion it was well thought out and aimed directly at the people that would help him get elected. I believe that if the Americans backed the Palestinians and relied on their vote, he would have been saying the same about Israel.
As for peace negotiations, the Americans have not really done anything constructive because of their bias for Israel. To be of any use to the peace negotiations there has to be a country that has no ties with either the Palestinians or Israel.

Just asking out of curiosity, trade one of what? and who do you mean when you say “We’ll and Ours?”

Be well IAN 2411

United States has always sought a main role in the middle east and she early realized that the Palestinian-Israeli conflict is a core stone in the middle east diplomatic affairs so even though US is way bias for Isreal as you said , she has endeavored to illustrate itself as "a neutral party" in the peace negotiations ... and since the Palestinian were divided among two parties , US had gotten the support from "fateh" (one of these 2 patries) to keep the peace negotiations but now things changed and fateh and hamas are not divided anymore so US actually will face obstructs ... and such statement could make it worse cause then no one in the Palestinian side would accept US as neutral party in any future peace negotiations anymore

yes , i agree he said this to get the jews support but he just went too far, he could have used more soft accent like Obama when he pledged to keep Israel safe but he didn't say anything bad about the Palestinians
12-12-2011
IAN 2411

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thorne

Goes all the way back to Moog driving Glorg and his family from their cave that first winter.

Now they really were invented...lol
12-12-2011
Thorne

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucy

Yeah, it all started with Moog. The bastard!

Oh, it gets worse! Moog justified his actions by inventing God, and claiming that God wanted him to have the cave. Promised it to him, or something.
12-21-2011
tedteague

I'm not an expert on the palestinians, but it might be different than saying that everyone is an invented people. what it really comes down to is do the palestinians have a culture that is unique and different from other arab states or ethnic groups (again, i dont know). You could say that the chinese are an invented people, in the sense that at some point they all got together and decided they were going to call their language chinese and the land the occupied china, but such a claim is preceeded by the notion that the chinese were different from their neighbors,and in fact they are. the chinese are not the same as the koreans, the british are distinctly seperate from the french, and the americans are not canadians.
The same claim can be made about the Jews, that they never had a country (bible excluded) and therefore are an invented people, but the jews have a distinct and unique history, and are so different from other european ethnic groups that they have been actively persecuted. If the palestinians are more or less interchangeable with other arab nations, then no,they are not an invented people. if they are refugees that no other country will allow despite being culturally 99% identical with other various arab groups, then yes, they are invented
01-02-2012
Lion

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thorne

Indians (Native Americans, to be PC).

Slightly off topic (actually wildly off topic). But I'm ethnically Indian. Native Americans...are not Indian. They're not in India, some Italian got lost and confused us. The error in terms has annoyingly persisted for hundreds of years. It wouldn't be such a big deal if I didn't have to constantly explain my background is the Taj Mahal India, not the Dances with Wolves kind.