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How hard is it to just stop reading as soon as you see the words young girl? I mean, what your saying is, we should code all posts because someone, somewhere will be offended. I really think you need to find another forum to voice your opinions on other people's FANTASY than a bdsm one..
And even if they are coded, the moment you see the code "young" at the top, by default you will already be thinking about the subject regardless.
BDSM Library Revised Code of Conduct
Members may not violate any local, state, national or international law or regulation. This includes any state, local, national or international copyright laws, laws against child pornography and laws governing the submission or publication of previously publicized materials. No member may post copyrighted images, articles or texts, in whole or in part, without the express written consent of the original author or owner. Similarly, no member’s submissions, photographic or text, to this site or its forums may be reproduced outside of this site without the express written consent of the content’s original author or owner.
it's in the revised code..
so as a minor is a child and a child is a minor..well?
so yeah..
Geez..I like debates..
:D
Ugh!
Cleo, you're not paying attention. :)
First of all, I never stated that I had an interest in any character as young as 13. I even went and made a subsequent post and placed the age of the victim at 16. Since I changed this particular character detail myself - changing the generality of "8th and 9th" grade", to the specific age of "16" - please don't continue an arguement based on information that I already altered. It's tiresome.
Secondy, I never requested any "survey." The subject of this particular forum is "story ideas," and I simply posted an idea for aspiring writers who may be suffereing from a "block" regarding potential story topics. That's all, nothing more.
And finally, I mentioned in my previous post that while I am a writer, I simply don't have the desire to write the story myself. That's why I posted my idea in this forum, to see if any good man or woman wants to give my idea a try. I love reading other people's work. I love creativity, and the thrill of discovering what some other person does with an idea of mine. It's that sense of discovery that makes reading such a joyful esperience.
Take care everybody and have a Great Christmas.
p.s. Just out of curiosity, I wonder how this post would've played-out if I made the victim 18? It's fascinating that some individuals would find 16 offensive, yet gleefully encourage the depiction of the abuse of a girl a mere two years older. Hmmm, interesting.
You misunderstand me, or maybe I misunderstand you
There is big difference between a car coming to life (Steven King story) and what SirThumper has described first with girl so young(child porn).
What I want to say is: before writing about kidnapping a young girl, and gangraping her in a planned thought out way, think about it.
Why you writing about A CHILD?
Why you have a gang of grown men do this?
There many fiction stories, novels, about child abuse and rape, I know this. I send you a list of names if you like. Many by child psychologists and workers, and they are fiction,
But they not written to excited sexually.
SirThumper story is. That is different.
Sure it is fiction, you say. Ya,
But it happens too.
In real life.
And CHILDREN suffer for it. Forever.
You think that is good thing?
Think about it. That's all.
Here is what you say in first post:
"Then, I'd have the men start prowling for a victim. They could visit places like the local malls, junior high volleyball games, local waterparks, etc. until they decide on a suitable candidate. I'd have them pick a younger girl, around 8th or 9th grade, and innocent. I have a preference for petite girls, like 4'11, 90 lbs., but a bit larger is okay too."
Later you change mind, ya? Sixteen not 12? Female aathlete like you dream about - why not write about that instead, she be 21, and athlete.
You say junior high.
That why I say "think about it". Look at who you describe - that is a very young girl, ya?
What age is too young?
If you talking sex, look at laws. That be your guide.
If you talking rape, I say "anyone under 150 years not carrying loaded shotgun"
Interesting...
Be sure to keep this in mind: ALL fiction is meant to "entertain" the reader. I know of no fiction that is intended to make the reader feel miserable. Granted, there may be moments in a story that make the reader squirm or cringe, but those emotions are usually tolerated due to the belief that the characters or situations that cause the misery will be overcome in the end.
My tale is simply one that doesn't end happily. Believe it or not, my story isn't the first to have that sort of outcome. Man, I'm just glad I didn't request a "snuff" tale. Imagine the sort of debate we'd be having then! Luckily for me, snuff doesn't "trip my trigger." (is that a pun? Hmmm)
If you want to tack-on a cheerful ending to my tale, be my guest. If you want to add a few years to the victim, be my guest.
Just don't write anything unless you're willing to put for a good effort, and have a good grasp of the English language.
Bad writing sucks. :)
And "yes," you're right: rape is a crime. (I'm glad to see you have a firm grasp on The Law.) Just keep in mind that this is a STORY we're talking about here. You're having trouble seeing the difference between a fictional tale and an unlawful criminal act perpetrated against a real person.
Also: believe it or not, not all people read the exact same sort of stories. I hope that doesn't come as a surprise.
Sorry if I sound sarcastic; it's just depressing when I have to explain obvious facts to (presumably) adults that should be able to grasp the diffrence between fantasy and reality.
Once again: Happy Holidays!!
Brainstorm!!!
I just had another story idea:
An adult woman has consensual sex with an adult man. While "doing it," they decide to engage in a little bondage, nibbling, and spanking!
Woohoo! What an idea! I can't wait to see how this one turns out! I don't think this kind of story has EVER been written before!
;)
Sirthumper
p.s. I apologize to all dentists and dental hygienists (sp?) who may be offended by the mention of overbites, poor dental hygiene, and even chapped lips in the depiction of the "nibbling" in the above mentioned STORY.
BEFORE FLAMES BEGIN:Quote:
Originally posted by sirthumper
An adult woman has consensual sex with an adult man. While "doing it," they decide to engage in a little bondage, nibbling, and spanking!
Woohoo! What an idea! I can't wait to see how this one turns out! I don't think this kind of story has EVER been written before!
The above idea meets our community standards. Child porn doesn't. Let me clarify the rules so everyone knows what's what.
In North America, the girls you mention here are between the ages of twelve and fourteen. I'll check, but I believe that the law defines children at 13. I am quite certain that Jinn doesn't want any younger than fourteen-- any authors here that have had a story rejected by Jinn for that reason, feel free to tell us what the cut-off was.Quote:
Originally posted by sirthumper
Then, I'd have the men start prowling for a victim. They could visit places like the local malls, junior high volleyball games, local waterparks, etc. until they decide on a suitable candidate. I'd have them pick a younger girl, around 8th or 9th grade, and innocent. I have a preference for petite girls, like 4'11, 90 lbs., but a bit larger is okay too.
Now, in state of anarchy, the SUGGESTION of child rape doesn't really draw a second glance. But this is a BDSM community. While rape and other nonconsensual acts are a part of fantasies, the Site Administrator, Jinn, has determine that he doesn't want child porn associated with this site. I won't pontificate on the evils of child porn. I will point out that politicians love to pontificate on such evils, and often build constituencies on people's reactions to discovering that child porn is somehow a part of their community. I wil further point out that Jinn wants to host a site, not get into a contracted legal battle to defend first ammendment rights.
I don't think you're an evil man for wanting to see young girls raped in the context of a story, sirthumper. I think there are ways to accomodate your story on BDSM Library without going someplace that the forum doesn't really want to go.
This community is meant to be a place where open discussion is okay, provided we respect each other and keep our tempers checked. We should empathize with each other, try to see each other's point of view, and try to help each other find our way now and then. There really isn't any need for us to compete or attack one another.
No one has yet contacted me as Moderator regarding this thread, so I'm assuming we all actually want to talk about it... If you don't have a helpful suggestion for sirthumper about writing this sexual fantasy of his, I would greatly appreciate it if you would not respond further in this thread, and leave it to others who want to contribute.
As I suggested previously, a character with a 'girlish' body still meets the standards. (And defies the constant string of large breasted /f characters in most of our fiction!)
Cleo suggested that you seem like someone who has a talent for writing. Why not write this yourself? Writer's Block? Lazy, like me? ;)
If you don't feel creative enough, I will help. But I wil certainly draw the line at the planning of the kidnap. I don't want to participate in anything that feels like a 'blueprint'. No offense-- I'm just a little touchy there-- and I hope you'll understand that.
Sound like a plan, sirthumper?
Ahh, so pretty much every story on the site is in violation of the site's code of conduct. Sorry, hon--if that's going to be your NEW argument, I'm afraid you'll find that most of the stories on this site violate someone's laws. See, the pertinent phrase there is "Members may not violate any local, state, national or international law or regulation." Likely almost every story here violates SOME state's or country's laws.Quote:
Originally posted by Cleo671
BDSM Library Revised Code of Conduct
Members may not violate any local, state, national or international law or regulation. This includes any state, local, national or international copyright laws, laws against child pornography and laws governing the submission or publication of previously publicized materials. No member may post copyrighted images, articles or texts, in whole or in part, without the express written consent of the original author or owner. Similarly, no member’s submissions, photographic or text, to this site or its forums may be reproduced outside of this site without the express written consent of the content’s original author or owner.
it's in the revised code..
so as a minor is a child and a child is a minor..well?
so yeah..
Geez..I like debates..
:D
Poor argument, sorry.
Merry Christmas, all!
Kallie
If you don't have a helpful suggestion for sirthumper about writing this sexual fantasy of his, I would greatly appreciate it if you would not respond further in this thread, and leave it to others who want to contribute.
Kallie doesn't have PM or mail, and posted right after I did, so she probably didn't see this. I will edit out any further debate. Please stick to assisting sirthumper or move on, please. Thanks!
1 post deleted. Author could not be contacted. Created a new thread for this debate! Click here to go to the new thread, RAPE & YOUNG GIRLS, in Comments & Suggestions.
Sir Thumper,
You are right in stating that your story is nothing but fiction. I never viewed it in any other way. I certainly have no right to criticize anyone for writing a rape fantasy as I am writing one myself. The original problem was with having the victim as an underage character, which is not allowed in the library. The problem has been corrected, so I feel that your story would be one that many would enjoy as sheer fantasy. I never thought that you would actually want to carry out that fantasy. My objection came from the ban on underage stories that the library has imposed if for no other reason than to comply with current laws on child pornography. As far as I am concerned, that was the only reason for debate in the first place. I would encourage you to write your story with the modification that you made.
I hope you all had a Great Christmas!
And thanks for writing in this forum, regarding the story idea I had.
I'm glad we had this little banter back 'n' forth, but as you can see, very little was accomplished. Everyone pretty much still believes exactly what they believed when I posted my story idea.
Hmmm, maybe next time we can debate whether God really exists. Ha!
Take care, and keep writing.
Sirthumper
P.s. if any of you want to respond to me personally - especially if you want to write my story - email me at bluethumper2002@yahoo.com. Ta ta, y'all!
So...
Did this story ever actually get written? Not trying to beat a dead horse or anything, I'm just curious if anyone ever got around to writing it.
I am loaded with storues that can be developed by a good writer with imagination. Where my ideas are based on experiences, I know they can be enlarged into possible a good story or that more than one experience might develope into many chapters. Emmacdcd@hotmail.comQuote:
Originally Posted by Hawke
It couldn't have taken very long to write if it was ever written as the synopsis was pretty threadbare. Controversial but threadbare.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawke
It threw up some interesting questions about censorship though. I'm against all censorship so I guess I can't suddenly change my mind because I find the idea of raping an underage girl extremely distasteful, well any rape come to that but I have to accept just what this forum is about and rape fantasies are part of the scene. (strange how other people's rape fantasies are always more distasteful than ones own!) Hmm...from the synopsis I wouldn't read the story anyway so the point about censorship I was going to make seems irrelevent and as far as I'm concerned the synopsis was a dead horse to start with.
LOL! – ProjectEuropa, this is one of the funniest footnotes to 'Your kink is not my kink' I have ever read. Thank you! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by ProjectEuropa
Yeah, ain't that the truth. I find own my rape fantasies – no girls involved – perfectly tasteful. I like them as fantasies, as fiction, imaginary crimes with imaginary characters.
Okay, because we're talking about underage stuff in here anyway, and I don't want to start a new thread, I'm curious (AND READ ALL OF THIS POST, not just my question, because the disclaimer is pretty important). If you have, say, a seventeen-year-old girl tied up and stuff on a website, but she is in no way nude, is it legal? Like, say a bikini. She's tied up and stuff in a bikini, and there's no other sexually implicit aspects of the pictures.
Disclaimer: I'm not trying to start another debate. I'm asking because I'm curious. I don't plan on starting a website oriented around the aforementioned, nor do I know anyone planning on starting a website of that nature. Like I said before, I'm ONLY asking because I am curious. And by the way, I'm not trying to come across like a jerk with this little disclaimer--I just don't want someone to misinterpret me, so I figured I'd explain myself before I got yelled at.
This is going to depend on which country you are in. A 17 year old is a minor in some countries and not in others. I think in the US (correct me if I'm wrong) a 17 year old would be a minor but in much of Europe it would not be illegal. Much of Europe has a sexual consent age of 16. Though this is a general rule because for certain sexual acts that age can vary. I know in Holland and Britain sex under the age of 16 is not criminalised if the age between both parties is within a couple of years such as a 16 year old boy and a 14 year old girl, though I think in both countries there is judicial discretion. But I think your scenario would be legal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawke
Hawke,
It's very difficult really to determine at what age someone is capable of deciding how sexual, or otherwise, they want to be at the present. Some individuals mature physically and/or mentally so much earlier than others.
I think what you're trying to ask here is - is it kiddy porn? Well, if she's 'tied up and stuff' in such a way to be considered titillating, then I'd say it is, if she's not, then I'd say it isn’t. Whether, or not, she’s been depicted in a sexual manner of course would always be a grey area of censorship.
By the way, I’m totally for censorship involving anything to do with prepubescents. I don’t like it at all – not one little bit. I can’t stand the idea of authors, film makers, or anyone else pandering to the needs of these people. It makes sick even to think about it. If I had my way every single one of them would have their balls hacked off with a rusty tin can so they could never breed.
But I digress. It’s all a bit hard really isn’t it? I mean what’s sexual to one person may not be to another. A friend of mine confessed to me once that he finds nothing more sexually exciting than a woman wearing brogues. No, spiky heeled stilettos for him, no, big heavy black or brown brogues. Go figure. So, we can really only determine these things in very general terms.
Have you ever seen Léon aka The Professional? Basically, Writer/Director Luc Besson admits he has a thing for very, very young girls, twelve or thirteen. In real life, he had a girlfriend at the time who was maybe fifteen when it was shot... Maiwenn... and Léon is on many levels a love letter to her. Interestingly enough, Maiwenn appears in the behind the scenes documentary about how the film was made (she is the prostitute in the opening 5 minutes) in the recent DVD rerelease.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Bragi
But it isn't illicit... and young Natalie Portman (this was her first film) doesn't appear nude. The most scandalous moments are, Matilda appears dressed up as Madonna, puts on a dress for Léon's pleasure, and gets drunk in a restaurant and demands that Léon kiss her.
It's also one of my favorite love stories. While I love it, I'm not sexually attracted to young girls, and I don't condone Luc Besson's behavior... but I think he makes an excellent case for the relationship between Matilda and Léon (if not Maiwenn and Luc). They have an affair of the heart.
For this reason, I don't want the idea of child porn banned... I just want actual child porn banned.
:Porn: Including 'soft' child porn, like "(Baby) One More Time". :slave4u:
I whole hearty agree. :woman:Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Bragi
So now for a reality check. Having children depleted as sex objects, to be used and abused is not my cup of tea. If it is fiction I can deal with it. I may not like it but I can deal. Of course I would not read a story like that anyway. So as long as you are not breaking laws or rules where you post then write what is in your head.
Alex, Gary, Jade. To be fair to Hawke, he asked about a seventeen year old woman. While a seventeen year old woman seems like a minor to me who is 50, in Britain a seventeen year old woman can get married, have sex and die for her country, though for some reason she is not old enough to vote. I think I am right is saying in just about all European countries a 17 year old can have sex quite freely if she desires so I can't imagine Hawke's scenario is illegal, at least in Europe.
Different countries have different laws about the internet but I think this can only be for downloaded material and not material viewed online. While the US might view 17 year olds as minors, I don't see what the US can do about what is legal in other countries and vice versa. So I would imagine if Hawke uploaded material from a country where it is legal for a seventeen year old to freely participate in such scenario, he would be acting legally.
Yes, I'm in the United States. And no, I don't mean kiddie porn, per se; except through the eyes of the law. I have no interest in little girls, I'm simply curious about the laws regarding seventeen year olds.
And keep in mind, I'm not referring to explicit sexual acts in this scenario. I was thinking more along the lines of "girl tied up, scantilly clad but not revealing anything considered sexual, in a manner which would arose those who found such material arousing". You see, I'm asking because it's debatable. On the one hand, it could be considered illegal, because she's under the age of 18, and in a situation which is generally considered to be Mature, by law. On the other hand, the pictures featuring her depict no sexual acts, be it willing or otherwise, nor do they depict any part of her body that is considered sexual. Thus, in this second argument, you could bring up the point that the pictures aren't mature in nature at all. Once I started thinking about these, and each of the arguments one could use to press their point, I began to wonder what the actual law was.
It's amazing what you'll think of when it's four in the morning and you can't get to sleep.
This thread has been going on for quite a while, and it's been several months since somebody decided to post. All the same, as a newcomer, I would like to weigh in.
What is intriguing, and complicating, is that with the internet we are now a world community: the ideas and norms of one country are juxtaposed to the tastes and standards of others in different regions and cultures. So we have the Dutch euthenizing their elderly, but that is anathema in Alabama. And if spanking a child is discipline in Montana, it's erotic in England, and a crime in Sweeden. Complicated, huh?
So it's no surprise that sex/kindky sex/violent sex/teenage sex is going to be complicated! And Kallie is right: one person's "personal fetish" is another person's "dangerous, illegal perversion," and vice-versa!
It comes down to: the webmaster makes the rules and enforces the rules. It's his butt that will be hung out to dry, depending on where he is located.
Now, some thoughts for Sirthumper. I kind of like your scenario, because nc sex with early-to-mid teens is a fantasy many of us share. For starters, it's awfully trite to "have them case her place." I'd look for a fresher way to move this plot. Face it: middle-aged guys hanging around some girl's home, however surepticiously, are going to get noticed by somebody, who will call the cops for an I.D. check, at the very least.
Anyway, here's some ideas for making your story--if you write it yourself--more acceptable. Consider posting it on other sites. asstr.org and mrdoubles.com come to mind. "mrdoubles" has LOTS of pre-teen and young-teen stories, most of them involving incest, but lots of them don't. And quite a few are non-consensual.
Another is to put the girl a bit older to conform to bdsmlibrary's standards, but make her very innocent and virginal. Perhaps she was brought up in a boarding convent school. Or very protected by zealously religious parents. How about making her an athlete, a ballet student, or something, who has never had a social life to speak of, busy as she's been?
Two other ideas to make your idea work for a 17-18 year old innocent and pure victim: she was carefully protected by a guardian who wanted to "save her for himself" upon attaining her "maturity," or, is mildly retarded: an 18-year-old with the mind of a 12-year-old.*
So, there's an idea for you to work with!
*I must point out that in the eyes of most American states' law, sex with a mentally disabled person is also considered "statutory rape."
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirthumper
Very good theme!!! I'd like to read several stories (or multi-episodes) of this line. Make the coed/female yuppie snob take more-than-enough savage punishment * as will break her spirit of resistance so that she's willing to service any prick shoved at her... regardless of the public sexual humiliation that's deliberately given her. Degrade her by forcing her to sabotage her prior reputation as the campus/office inhibited cock-teasing bitch. She can be ordered to publically offer a randomly selected guy a blowjob or fuck in full view of witnesses. Or she can be set-up for unexpected prick shoved at her and she has to satisfy him OR ELSE.
Roof
* Harshly mash her tits in a press, shock them.
The kidnapped coed is a durable fantasy. Consider going back to around 1964 (or so), the movie, The Collector where a windfall-rich Terrence Stamp kidnaps Samatha Eggar (OOOOooooo!!). He didn't rape her--she does seduce him, once, hoping to gain her freedom. His interest was just fascination with a beautiful young woman, which was a category of life he had little experience with.
If I re-wrote it, she's be raped and fucked up and down daily and nightly!
But to the subject at hand--if we're through the issue of young victims--I don't find Sir Thumper's opening scenario quite believable. First, how many guys are in this rape conspiracy? And they're going to share just one girl? No, either fewer guys, or more girls to fuck. Really.
And their following and tracking her? This many guys in the proximity of one girl would attract attention, no matter how sureptitious they try to be. She--or her family-would notice!
Better to reduce the conspiracy to a few guys. And to execute a successful kidnapping, I would say one has to have intense knowledge of either the victim, or the environment. I would say, come in from out-of-town, and study the community carefully:A streets, train and bus stops, schools, churches, etc. Get to know what kind of girls go where. Then you have to wait for just the right opportunity. Which should be combined with just the right girl.
And it would be damn tough, realistically, to get the two together. You might get a good abduction opportunity, but for a fat or ugly girl. Or you could get an attractive victim--but no safe opportunity!
See what I mean?
My fanasy? Hijack a freakin' school bus full of prep-school cuties, filled with the likes of Alexis Blendel from Gilbmore girls!! Now that's a girl I'd love to have in a nice, deep basement!!
(And don't expect me to share, either!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by prey4me
The part about a group stalking a chick, being more apt to be spotted is good point. I like the idea at the end of hijacking a school bus load of coeds---preferably cheerleaders. (Unfortunately the ones I knew were prigs as snobbish as their bodies were sexy). The said cheerleaders would be put into a dungeon environment and tortured eg suspended by their wrists, their tits whipped, shocked, mashed in a vise; into being the fucktoys they'd been too goody-goody to be until "persuaded". When their spirit of resistance is properly and effectively broken, humiliate them and force them to public sexual slavery to offset their prior "touch-me-not" reputations.
You want prissy prim and proper teenage virgin girls? I drive by RC schools, and the girls (after class) look so slutty! All sorts of tights, stockings, and socks. Different styles of shoes. Shirt-tails pulled out. Where are they rape-able sweethearts of yesteryear?
You want to pursue this fantasy, I suggest that it be girls attending an Evangelical girls' academy or a schoolbus full of Mormon girls. Now these are girls who haven't been brainwashed into "sex is bad," morality. Rather, they've been emphatically taught to wait for marriage.
And they tend, as a population group, to be nice, middle-class or even up-scale chicks, and therefore nicely dressed, groomed, hair-styled, etc.
(And, for my fetish, more likely to be wearing pretty, dainty underwear....)
Something to think about!