Deleting Threads (and Posts)

Well, it seems this "deleting thing" has raised hell.
I'm a newbie (here in the forum) and I must say it's quite difficult to find my way through. If I'd like to post a thread I didn't know at all where to put it.
Therefore I guess it's not the worst idea to re-place some(!) of the threads where they belong. They might have been posted by newbies like me who didn't know where to put them. Some of the "elders" here might want to place their threads with purpose in the "wrong" section. Well, they can still express their purpose and I don't think the threads will be re-moved.
Deleting threads is something else. I agree totaly that it's a VERY short step from "cleaning up" to cencorship. Anyway I trust the people in here not to cencor anything. Otherwise they wouldn't be here at all, would they? And cleaning out old threads noone ever read or that are out of time isn't anything to worry about. Sometimes one has to throw away old, unused, (worthless?) items just to get more oxygen. Don't tell me you ever throw away anything.
As often there is the need of "cleaning" out flames. And that's a good thing to do. There are always some people around who think it's very funny to offend others regardless of the theme. Neither of us wants those nerks, do we?
So I'd say let the moderators do their work and concentrate on your own.
(Finally I apologise for my English. it's not my mother-tongue and I might have used the wrong expressions sometimes.)

... we could. It would just be a matter of clicking one little button. If you notice when you post, there's a screen that says something to the effect of, "Thank you for posting... If your forum is moderated, your post may not show up until after it is approved by the moderators."

We don't do that though. We allow all the posts through, but if something violates the Code of Conduct, we will either warn the offender or remove the post. Gary Wilcox is more of a remover and I'm more of a warner.

Okay I think I need to give you a little of my background here….

I spent almost a year posting on a daily basis at another forum under the name I originally brought over to the library. My over 2000 posts were almost exclusively to a single thread that I helped to develop. The entire purpose of it was to give lurkers a place to come and feel comfortable while learning the ins and outs of how the boards worked. It also gave writers a place to talk through ideas.. .

This thread grew beyond what the original founders could have ever imagined. We had new people posting on almost a daily basis. At the core there were 6 people who kept it a place that people wanted to come to. Most of the people came and went very quickly…. They found their niches and moved on… other would lurk and just post enough that we knew they were watching and enjoying what they saw…it was a flame free zone on a board that had entire forums that were nothing but flamings…and for anyone that has been flamed or known someone who’s only interest is in seeing how much damage they can inflict knows… that is saying a lot.

That is not to say it was problem free.. there were plenty of problems behind the scenes.. there were some very strong people involved but it was a very rare thing for any of that to make it into the public eye…

Over time though it would on occasion happen…someone would feel slighted or ignored… someone would get hurt … and tempers would fly… but over time we had found ways to diffuse those types of situations but it always took time…

well in the middle of one of those situations one of the original posters decided that he’d had enough… so he contacted a mod… in literally the blink of an eye… over 10.000 posts were gone from a single thread ….Please understand this was a thread that had never even been off the first page of the forum in which it was placed…and suddenly it was just not there anymore….a year of my life…gone…. Inside that thread were so many little stories…stories found no where else … writing contests where the prize was just the sharing between friends… we had laughed there and cried there… we had had celebrations… and we had mourned there… we had shared ideas… and philosophies…we had flirted and we had fallen in love…we had made friendships and forged bonds…there is a little piece of me that I think will always mourn the loss of that place... we tried to recreate it...but it just didn't work... the magic of it was loss...

You’d think something like that couldn’t happen… but it did… what scares me is that it could just as easily happen here…because there is nothing to prevent it from happening...

Do I know what has been moved… no
Do I know where things have been moved to….no
In all likely hood unless I was directly involved in a thread I wouldn’t have clue anyway…

What I do know is the worse case scenario…because I lived through it…and it scares me that it could happen here...

Gary Wilcox,

i'm not really sure what you guys are doing here... but carry on with your bad selves.

I am just a girl who is looking for a Dom who does not back down to the stupidity of the Admin/mods.

I will not discuss any off board conversations of OURS because they are OURS. I've had several off board convos with people i met here i have not discussed with anyone else.

here are my observations.

This is the best BDSM erotica site on the net bar none. I love reading the stories here.

TG is a bit full of himself, clearly it is his first Admin postition and he is young and learning his way. He has also never been to a board with a HISTORY. Sometimes people want to come back and read the happy birthday or go cubs or whatever thread to relive old times. Also newbies like to know how long the board has been here and who are the old timers and who are here just checking out the pics adn so we go to the last page and assume that is when the board began.AND btw TG, i like you just fine and yes i read ALL the "old posts" there were so few pages of them. FUrther the board holds 20 pages of posts and the charges t the board owner are the same whether you choose to delete them or not UNLESS people actually view the pages.. so Your arguement is moot. Charges to Jinn are based on VIEWS.

and while i am talking to TG, you bait the holy fuck out of people and then your wife comes in and say "let's not call anyone names" this can be cocumented when you and your wife called switches flakes and then berated them for flaming you.

THEN there is this forum where you ask for suggestions and comments.. I have never seen a suggestion or comment implemented. And i am viewing historically.

What i see is a bunch of people who suggest their threads be deleted because they are not listened too.

THUS my very real suggestion in deleting this entire area. IF you want to lay down the law, and clearly you do, then do so, but don't lay down the law and then open a comments and suggestions area.

CLEARLY you don't want comments or suggestions or else you can only accept ones that your wife approves of because she is here at every turn saying " oh please you don't understand how much work HE does"

I WOULD have kept my mouth shut on ALL of this had not Gary WILCOX decided to FIRST

IM me on my private account ( which i had given him) and told this was a nicey nice no arguement kind of place...WHICH I ALSO TOLD TG IN AN IM and that i would not be back as i could not express my opinion...

and TG called me a "WUSS"
and GW tried to counsel me into being nicer...

fine.

this is not my board, i need to go...

BUT THEN FAIBAR decides to flame me in an unrelated forum and GW IMs me AGAIN to say.. er someone um said something and er i had to um edit it...

and when i asked what and whom he was like " i don't want to say"

what kind of passive agressive shit is that? I HAD LEFT!

i knew who it was and what was said but I HAD LEFT!

and THEN Gary WILCOX decided to post the shit here?

I mean he would not tell ME but he will post it here?

and guess what?

the other party left too.

can't blame him.

if we can't disgree and argue about stuff? who will post here?

TG, GW, and about 10 other people.

do i like faibair? fuck no. but i will defend his right not to be fucked with by the mods/admins and decide to leave anyway.

So that is my story of my brief visit to this board. apparently everyone fights and the admin and mod can say whatever the fuck they want... when not deleting or accidently fucking up the picture thread or pontificating their little fingers off about THEIR OPINION... they swoop down and moderate everyone elses opinion..

lovely.

nice open community ya got here.

and finally i would not have said a word until GW decided to post personal information that i told him about not posting here. to this thread.

THAT is bullshit. had i wanted people to know (other than those i told) i would have said....


THIS IS MY LAST POST.

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Originally posted by vanillaslave
Gary Wilcox,

i'm not really sure what you guys are doing here... but carry on with your bad selves.

I am just a girl who is looking for a Dom who does not back down to the stupidity of the Admin/mods.

I will not discuss any off board conversations of OURS because they are OURS. I've had several off board convos with people i met here i have not discussed with anyone else.

here are my observations.

This is the best BDSM erotica site on the net bar none. I love reading the stories here.

TG is a bit full of himself, clearly it is his first Admin postition and he is young and learning his way. He has also never been to a board with a HISTORY. Sometimes people want to come back and read the happy birthday or go cubs or whatever thread to relive old times. Also newbies like to know how long the board has been here and who are the old timers and who are here just checking out the pics adn so we go to the last page and assume that is when the board began.AND btw TG, i like you just fine and yes i read ALL the "old posts" there were so few pages of them. FUrther the board holds 20 pages of posts and the charges t the board owner are the same whether you choose to delete them or not UNLESS people actually view the pages.. so Your arguement is moot. Charges to Jinn are based on VIEWS.

and while i am talking to TG, you bait the holy fuck out of people and then your wife comes in and say "let's not call anyone names" this can be cocumented when you and your wife called switches flakes and then berated them for flaming you.

THEN there is this forum where you ask for suggestions and comments.. I have never seen a suggestion or comment implemented. And i am viewing historically.

What i see is a bunch of people who suggest their threads be deleted because they are not listened too.

THUS my very real suggestion in deleting this entire area. IF you want to lay down the law, and clearly you do, then do so, but don't lay down the law and then open a comments and suggestions area.

CLEARLY you don't want comments or suggestions or else you can only accept ones that your wife approves of because she is here at every turn saying " oh please you don't understand how much work HE does"

I WOULD have kept my mouth shut on ALL of this had not Gary WILCOX decided to FIRST

IM me on my private account ( which i had given him) and told this was a nicey nice no arguement kind of place...WHICH I ALSO TOLD TG IN AN IM and that i would not be back as i could not express my opinion...

and TG called me a "WUSS"
and GW tried to counsel me into being nicer...

fine.

this is not my board, i need to go...

BUT THEN FAIBAR decides to flame me in an unrelated forum and GW IMs me AGAIN to say.. er someone um said something and er i had to um edit it...

and when i asked what and whom he was like " i don't want to say"

what kind of passive agressive shit is that? I HAD LEFT!

i knew who it was and what was said but I HAD LEFT!

and THEN Gary WILCOX decided to post the shit here?

I mean he would not tell ME but he will post it here?

and guess what?

the other party left too.

can't blame him.

if we can't disgree and argue about stuff? who will post here?

TG, GW, and about 10 other people.

do i like faibair? fuck no. but i will defend his right not to be fucked with by the mods/admins and decide to leave anyway.

So that is my story of my brief visit to this board. apparently everyone fights and the admin and mod can say whatever the fuck they want... when not deleting or accidently fucking up the picture thread or pontificating their little fingers off about THEIR OPINION... they swoop down and moderate everyone elses opinion..

lovely.

nice open community ya got here.

and finally i would not have said a word until GW decided to post personal information that i told him about not posting here. to this thread.

THAT is bullshit. had i wanted people to know (other than those i told) i would have said....


THIS IS MY LAST POST.

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JUST joking

Hmmm... Well I suppose I have been told, haven't I?

*shrugs* I will not apologise for defending TG. I do not defend him because he is my husband, I defend him because I feel that things he has said or done were simply taken out of context. And, since I know him better than anyone else, I try to alleiviate the tenion, to try and be diplomatic. But I guess my attempt was all for nothing.

Granted, if I saw someone else unjustly being persecuted, I would stand up for them as well, even if it means butting heads with TG. And believe me, it has happened, just not in public because I don't air my dirty laundry where other people can see it. I know that vanillaslave has left, but I just felt the need to defend myself against the snide remarks.

~d~ I can truly understand how you feel about losing that particular thread. I would feel the same way if I had experienced it as well. However, you can take my word for it that he would never just up and delete something just because one person (other than say Jinn) wanted it so. I can understand your apprehension but I saw what posts he had deleted and looked at the last pages of the general myself and I assure you that there is still a lot there that he could have deleted and didn't.

And there in lies my problem. I can normally see both sides of the story and I hate flame wars and fights and I will usualy try and find a solution. If that warrants the types of comments that I received from vanillaslave, then fine. I am a big girl, I can take my lumps but it makes me wonder if it pays to try and help these days especially because it is always seen as me taking sides.

Now, it is my personal opinion that this thread has turned into something bitter and ugly aside from the few people that have kept a level head.

That being said, I have a challenge for everyone here. Let's see how many people can step up to the plate, but their differences aside, and be the bigger person. Let's see if we can work TOGETHER to find a solution that is mutally benificial to all involved. I TRIPLE DOG DARE YA

There. It's said. Will my advice be taken serioulsy? I doubt it but no can ever say I haven't tried. I still hold true to my suggestion of an archive.

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Originally posted by vanillaslave
I am just a girl... who does not back down to the stupidity of the Admin/mods.

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Note: I am stupid and you are brave.

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TG is a bit full of himself, clearly it is his first Admin postition and he is young and learning his way. He has also never been to a board with a HISTORY... FUrther the board holds 20 pages of posts and the charges t the board owner are the same whether you choose to delete them or not UNLESS people actually view the pages.. so Your arguement is moot. Charges to Jinn are based on VIEWS.

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Not really for me, but this was on topic. As for TG being a bit full of himself... I don't know if that has much to do with his reasons for trimming old threads or not.

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and while i am talking to TG, you bait the holy fuck out of people and then your wife comes in and say "let's not call anyone names" this can be cocumented when you and your wife called switches flakes and then berated them for flaming you.

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That incident... is why I became a Moderator. Which I have explained to you, to others in chat, but not to the forum in general (or to TG). It's a put up or shut up thing. I saw a problem with the way a conflict was handled in a chat room and I decided to see if I could help out instead of yelling or getting 'satisfied' with a rude comment.

The minute I started learning my ropes, I watched people trying to manipulate me into basically hating TG. I don't. We have very different ways of handling a crisis, but I think we both are actively trying to help the community out, and it's funny how much I realize we're alike, despite our differing personalities. If I saw TG doing something I didn't like, or posting something nasty in Community, I would act on it. And I am damn well sure he'd do the same for me. And we would resolve it. And then we'd go back to talking on topic again. That's how working forums function.

As for Finding Fantasy... she's not the person who put me on to your post. Someone flamed on your thread, and I acted with the same hand that I did in your case-- this time deleting Faibhar's post for topic drift. :: shurg :: In all of this you have yet to tell me what you would have preferred, or how I could have handled the matter differently. I'm beginning to suspect that it's not really even at issue for you. Which leaves me wondering why you bristle every time TG or I make a move.

I am neither for you nor against you. I just keep the sidewalks clean here, lady.

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THEN there is this forum where you ask for suggestions and comments.. I have never seen a suggestion or comment implemented. And i am viewing historically.

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So... stop making them.

We folks who want stuff will keep trying on the hopes that Jinn will someday cave in and give us these neat little extras.

For the time being, those who want it are enjoying a chat room. Non official, of course, but that's how things generally get done in the world-- people do it themselves, or take any kind of hand in their own life's progress. But you're correct-- I don't think Jinn has changed the forum much since it first began.

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THUS my very real suggestion in deleting this entire area. IF you want to lay down the law, and clearly you do, then do so, but don't lay down the law and then open a comments and suggestions area.

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We didn't 'lay down the law and then ask for suggestions'.

This area has been around as along as the forum. JINN is asking for suggestions. You're being dramatic, accusing us of a hipocracy that is beyond our capability. The irony is maddening.

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CLEARLY you don't want comments or suggestions or else you can only accept ones that your wife approves of...

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Can you hear yourself? Do you ever stop and read these things before you send them?

If you have a single Comment or Suggestion that can be implemented by myself or TG... well, I can't speak for TG, but I would weigh it out, and do the only other thing I can...

Ask Jinn.

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I WOULD have kept my mouth shut on ALL of this had not Gary WILCOX decided to FIRST IM me on my private account ( which i had given him)....

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:: sigh:: You're not going anywhere, Vanilla. I don't really want you to leave; I just don't want this little community left open to unproductive hate mail. But letters like these leave me wishing you would just go.

I triple-dog-dare you not to respond to any further posts. Not to fire up and respond to this letter in an angry, passionate fit.

That's why the forum needs moderators.... this stuff gets out of hand... especially when people forget that in civil discourse, there are rules that must be obeyed.

You've shared a few secrets of our budding friendship with the rest of the forum... fine. I'll leave your secrets safe. But if a friendship means having to deal with this kind of rant... undisciplined, alone, and unsolvent as I am, I can find much better friends. Friends who actually give a damn about my feelings.

Friends who wouldn't sell me out on a difference of opinion.

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and GW tried to counsel me into being nicer...

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That was a mistake. The CoC is all I should be working with here. That was thinking like a friend; wanting you to have more friends, too. Thinking you wanted more friends.

Sometimes, these things... they just aren't meant to be.

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and when i asked what and whom he was like " i don't want to say"
what kind of passive agressive shit is that? I HAD LEFT!

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No you hadn't. :: Points to the post that you made. :: And you're reading this now.. you still haven't left, Vanilla.

The reason why I didn't tell you who made the off topic post? It doesn't serve any purpose but to tell you who to be mad at. Because everyone's fallible, and the last thing I wanted to do was reveal when someone has run afoul of the CoC. I will always keep those matters confidential, as long as I'm wearing the tin star. Which, right now, doesn't feel at all comfortable.

Faibhar outed himself in this thread. I responded. Vanilla, this isn't even the thread at issue-- how can you pretend that you left?

You're still reading. Be dramatic if you want, but be honest that you hadn't left, and still haven't left. Don't blame me for your coming back, Vanilla. You made the choice.

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if we can't disgree and argue about stuff? who will post here?

TG, GW, and about 10 other people.

do i like faibair? fuck no. but i will defend his right not to be fucked with by the mods/admins and decide to leave anyway.

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Earlier in this post you talked about the private IM we had. If you recall, when I told you I had edited out an off topic comment, you immediately you asked who it was that had made the comment, and then when I said I didn't want to tell you that, you said you were out of the forum anyway.

You could have mentioned that you would have rather I left the thread alone and let him flame. But you didn't.

You basically stopped talking to me after that, as I recall.

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So that is my story of my brief visit to this board. apparently everyone fights and the admin and mod can say whatever the fuck they want... when not deleting or accidently fucking up the picture thread or pontificating their little fingers off about THEIR OPINION... they swoop down and moderate everyone elses opinion..

lovely.

nice open community ya got here.

and finally i would not have said a word until GW decided to post personal information that i told him about not posting here. to this thread.

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Please reread it, Vanilla, since you're here anyway. The following is the ONLY REFERENCE to anything personal between you and I mentioned in my earlier response:

Interstingly, both you and VanillaSlave have decided to stop posting in response to this.

If there was something revealed in there you didn't want me to... like you not coming back to the forum... then I am sincerely sorry. I can admit that was a mistake, and I regret repeating anything about that.

... this thread goes completely off-topic and degenerates into name-calling and bickering.

And again, I'm going to say: If you don't have anything nice, polite and on-topic to say, then keep your mouths shut. Please. There, I was polite.

Basically, at this time, the issue is unresolved. I will continue to clean up the threads. I will merge together threads on similar topics. I will put threads into place, based upon where I think they should most logically go.

Read this next part carefully, all of you:

If anyone has any opinions or suggestions or comments as to where I have moved some threads, then PM me and tell me where you feel the thread would be better suited.

Every area of this forum has a description telling each of you where to post what. I'm sure Jinn didn't have it in mind to waste his time and ours by making these guidelines. Let's use them. That way, no one has to tell me what an abuser I am for moving a thread off page seven of General Talk and relocating it to page one (of one) of Knowledge Base.

For now, I won't delete anything without first posting a message about it in the General Talk forum. I will make a link to the thread I want to delete and all of you will have 48 hours to reply to it and explain why the thread needs to be kept. People have already suggested to me that some topics should be dated and only kept for about a month after their initial posting. I agree with this. So, happy birthdays and holidays and Go Cubs! will all stick around for a month before either being relocated to the archive (if it comes to fruition) or removed to keep things tidy.

If a thread has some special meaning to you, for whatever reason, PM me and let me know and let me know why. I will be more than happy to keep it for you. I would ask that you provide a somewhat valid reason. I dont know what is important to you unless you tell me.

If there are any threads that people request they might want to be deleted for offensive content or whatnot, then PM me or post your objection in that thread and I will take your concern to Gary and Jinn and we will decide if the thread should be either left alone, locked or deleted altogether. And hey, even if it's something I have said, tell me anyway. I will listen to you and try to use your criticism, if it is constructive, to try and be a better moderator and a better poster. Do tell me privately, though, as that is the same courtesy I would extend to any of you.

It is my recommendation that, if you want to see a thread continued, then you should make an effort to post to it. Threads that sit around without replies I consider to be dead after a couple of months of no views and no responses. I would rather enjoy seeing more people post here. I would like to see more new members post here, but I'll address that though later and in another area of the forum.

So, here's what I want: I want us all to play nice, be polite and offer our comments and suggestions in constructive and productive ways. If you don't feel you can, please don't post it.

Now, please, have a great day and have happy holidays. Let's all try to come together and act like a community of friends.

*sigh* I'm someone else who just can't stay gone, but I think there are a couple of points that need to be addressed for the sake of lurkers and new posters who may not be familiar with Forum history.

The first is that, contrary to statements made earlier in this thread, suggestions are sometimes acted upon by Jinn. I just went back and checked and in twenty minutes I found three that had been implemented directly due to this complaint process and three others that had also been implemented, but possibly before the suggestions were made. One of the suggestions acted on was one of mine, and another I made in a PM to Jinn has also been incorporated.

Meanwhile, six or seven others have been accepted and put on the queue. Some have been on the queue for a very long time but, you know what? I suspect that Jinn administers more than just this site and that the others may be providing some of the funding to keep this one running. You feed your family first.

That being said, Jinn, could you please take another look at your 'to-do' list and see if anything else can be ticked off?

Finally, to Finding_Fantasy: Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall encounter a roadside bomb.

Thanks TG for adding this new concept of putting up who is on the chopping block next. That way W/we as a community can ignore it and let it go, or stand up for it as a community.

I still do not like the idea of threads disappearing. Even if they are pushed to the back burner for a time. That is why I love the idea of an archive. Removing threads entirely really bothers Me. I hate the concept of someone else deciding what is worty of My eyes. Now I do not read everything, and I do not read everything every day. But if it is gone I will never get to read it if I choose to do so.

In the interest of getting people to post having them know that there is a safety net adn that thier ideas have value to the rest of us is important. I still think that wiping out threads does nothing to get people to post to anything at all. If you are the nervous non comfortable in crowds type, you will be even less inclined to post if you think that your words can be taken away at whim.

But if there is the recourse of letting U/us all know in advance what you are planning and why with threads, that would give us the chance to give input in the matter. I think this is something I can live with.

~LT~

Well, the idea doesn't sound bad at all. TG or anyone else who is in charge announcing to delete a certain post or thread so somebody can object to it.
but...my Lord... you said you could live with that? So for what time this announcement should be posted... A day? A week? A month? ...before the post/thread in concern is deleted? Some people come here only once a week, once a month whatever... do only the regular readers have the right to "vote" for or against a post/thread?

You see, it's not easy. :rolleyes:

I like the idea to be able to read all the threads I don't know for chasing boredom or trying to find new ideas or opinions or whatever.
BUt does it bother me not to have read a post I didn't know existed??? Would it bother you?

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Originally posted by sm4hg
BUt does it bother me not to have read a post I didn't know existed???

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Hmmmm, has all taken a rather strange philosophical turn....can you mourn a missed opportunity that you didnt know was open to you....does that bus still exist when it goes round the corner....does the thread REALLY exist if you havnt actually read it....on and on it goes...

*smiles*

sl

okay a thread i just started got moved by GW... it was totally painless... and i have no doubt it will make for easier finding because i really didn't know where to post my question to begin with...

i have never had any problem with that issue....things need to be and remain organized...

but sl...you have touched upon what i have been trying to convey... When things are deleted... they are forever lost....when a newbie comes in and meets someone... and they want to know that person they do searches.... and in those searchs are our thought and ideas... our strengths and our weaknesses...it is a record of who we are as as indiviuals and who we are as a community....and the little things are just as telling as the large....

i love to tease... it is as much a part of me as the color of my eyes... but i don't do it a lot because i never know how anyone will react to it...but it usually shows up in the most peculiar places...

so if someone does a search of me... that part of my personality could and probably would be totally lost..simply because it is usually when thing get totally off course that i see the humor the keenest...

*grin* example:



code of contact

in a thread about conduct one of the most important issues discussed is about not hijacking threads and keeping them on topic...i honestly mean no offense but i find it totally hilarious that the post made by you was :

Hey!
Hey, kittenfemme, you're back! Did you have a nice birthday?

sl


*giggle* love, you hijacked the code of conduct thread...

*soft smile* the thing is... you are wonderful in that post... you are warm... and welcoming... it shows your heart and your caring...it show your joy at finding your friend...

Would it make a differnce in that thread if it was gone...not in the sense of the code... but that thread would lose something anyway... it would lose a moment of joy...and that to me would be a real loss....

If you found out that single off topic post was going to be deleted would you fight for it? Would it really matter to you? Probably not but that wouldn't change the fact that a post, made by you, that said something about who you are as a person... and about this community as a whole, would be lost... and that loss in my own opinion would just be sad....

Hi d,

i fully understand the point you are making d, honestly i do, we are, indeed, in cyber terms, a sum total of the words we type....but....if there is limited space, and some threads have to be deleted, then i just dont see what is so wrong with losing threads that have very few replies or have 'died'...if you see what i mean. The forums have to be moderated and in the end we have to trust someone to moderate them with consideration and tact. i read your previous message about that huge, and very personal and involved thread that got deleted off another site....that is obviously awful, but i really cannot see TG or any other moderator deleting a thread like that.

As for the Code of Conduct and my post regarding kittens birthday..*grin*...i think hijacking threads is a different subject altogether and is not wholly linked to the recent deleting of threads issue....i did however make that post when i was relatively new and didnt really have much understanding of the hijacking issue....and to be honest, if TG felt that it was inappropriate and deleted it, not with any hurtful or despotic intent, then i would live with it.

*sigh* it really is a tricky one....cos having said all of the above, i have just re-read your message and i still see what you mean...when i was a newbie, i gleaned a lot of information about people, their relationships, what they were like etc from old threads as opposed to new one's...

um....not sure what the outcome of this message should be now!! LOL! i think maybe i can only conclude that i see what you mean, but i just dont feel as strongly about it...

Love

sl

I read through this ... in disbelief.

First, IF a thread is deleted by accident, it can be restored from the backup. (at least I backup my 8 forum sites daily, hopefully this board is backed up daily).

I don't delete threads on my forums, even if they're outdated and boring or whatever. I keep meaning to move them to an archive section but never have. My boards have an automatic feature that will remove threads after a certain date, but I don't use it.

Gee. a moderator made a mistake. He proved he is human.

Get over it.

It's not the first time and certainly won't be the last time.

i am sorry Pam if you or anyone else got the impression that i was upset over the accidental deletions of anything...accidents happen... that's just life....live and learn...

i know i have taken on a bull dog mentality with this...but as i said in an earlier post... i have seen the worst case senario when it came to deleting....

i hope this board keeps growning... i hope it lives up to its potiential...there are some great people here..

at the same time when i come to a post in a thread and the Moderator says:

"I removed a post on this thread just a moment ago, sacrificing some great on-topic discussion for some subtle off-topic flaming. Pained me to do it, but if I have to, I will. "

(the post in it's entirety can be found in Dom Training and the delete was done by Gary Wilcox)

then yes i have a problem ...there is just something in me that says....this is just wrong...

mod·er·a·tor [ móddə ràytər ] (plural mod·er·a·tors)

noun

1. somebody in charge of discussions: somebody who presides over an assembly, especially a legislative assembly, or who acts as a mediator in discussions or negotiations



me·di·a·tor [ mdee àytər ] (plural me·di·a·tors)

noun

1. somebody helping end a dispute: somebody who works with both sides in a dispute in an attempt to help them reach an agreement


that is what i think of when i think of a mod.... someone to come in and say "PLAY NICE...agree to disagree but DO IT WITH RESPECT or find someplace else to play" not someone to decide what is or isn't fit for the community as a whole to see...

*sigh* God i am so frustrated, i feel like i am beating my head against a wall...

My comments weren't directed at you but at the general discussion, rude comments, and nonsensical crap

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Originally posted by pam
My comments weren't directed at you but at the general discussion, rude comments, and nonsensical crap

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i think what ~d~ meant was that there seems to be two seperate issues going on in the same thread - one being the accidental deletion of posts/threads and the other being 'official' deletion of posts/threads (if you see what i mean)...and ~d~ is concerned with the latter of the two.

sl

~d~,

First ammendment [snip] aside, I'll cut to the heart of the matter.

While I can appreciate that deleting posts feels like censorship, it's also living up to community standards. And community standards are outlined in the Code of Conduct.

We're talking in someone else's forum. It's not mine, not yours. This forum is Jinn's. While a community is made of its people, it is brought together under one understanding of how we will conduct matters, how we will I've been on other forums. I've seen people from other forums come in here and try to create unrest.

Recently I've learned that over at the BBC Survivor forum, there are different standards for behavior. Until Jinn alters this, I would continue to delete topic drift. Although I am usually pretty lenient about drift, mean spirited topic drift that starts flame wars is the first thing I'll delete.

If you had a chance to read the deleted post*, I could point out clearly that the message went from a great, direct to the point statement about Doms being better Doms when they train first as subs, to a broad attack on a single person for behavior outside of the current topic.

That's the stuff I will delete.

Now, in here, I would *love* to delete rehashing of this same argument, as I find it really embarrassing and a drag to deal with in the week since the last big deletion happened. But I won't. It's on topic. It's a fair argument. There are no personal attacks.

But I do feel that its unfair to cast me or TG as censorship-happy villains. If I delete a post, it's because it will derail the topic at hand into a flame war-- and more importantly, because it doesn't belong. Not because I don't want the community to see differing points of view.

And on that point, I'm bangin' my head right beside ya.

I have never deleted a rational argument in this forum, and I wouldn't. If I did, I'd step down for being a bad, bad, bad Moderator.

Why would you think I would do something like that...?

*

Quote:

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(the post in it's entirety can be found in Dom Training and the delete was done by Gary Wilcox)

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The deleted post does not appear in the thread, obviously, in case a rubbernecker or two wants a peek at the carnage. <g>

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Originally posted by GaryWilcox
But I do feel that its unfair to cast me or TG as censorship-happy villains.

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Gary - after yesterday, i can think of couple of 'roles' i would like to cast you and TG in....but no, not 'censorship-villains' !*grin*

sl

Again, why do you feel the need to delete based on 'thread drift'? Almost all threads drift. Alt.sex.stories.d was set up to discuss sex stories and writing. It has turned out to be anything but. For all intents and purposes, it is where authors hangout and shoot the shit about everything but sex stories.

What neither of you seems to understand is that this is a community. The extra stuff that TG is doing is great, but his foremost job is removing posts that are in violation of the law, so as to further to continued use of this community by its members. And secondly, to keep the majority of its members happy and spawn increased contribution by its members.

I think you have done a terrific job meeting the first of your criteria. However, I think have have not done a very good job with the second. You have behaved, not as mediators, but as dictators. I do not argue that you had good intentions. But the most popular thread here was deleted. A veritable flame war has broken out. And people aren't posting.

All of this has been spawned due to the spurious deletion and movement of posts by the moderators. And instead of owning up to it, in face of practically unanimous objection, you have continued a pursuit which has turned into the very thing you are here to prevent.

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Originally posted by S_Couture
Again, why do you feel the need to delete based on 'thread drift'? Almost all threads drift. Alt.sex.stories.d was set up to discuss sex stories and writing. It has turned out to be anything but. For all intents and purposes, it is where authors hangout and shoot the shit about everything but sex stories.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by GaryWilcox
When I delete a single posting, it is because the content of the posting is 1) off topic and 2) meant to antagonize.

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Topic Drift alone isn't the reason. As you see by this comment earlier in the thread, I specifically pointed out two important elements.

I agree-- leniency and patient judgement is needed. Letting someone talk about favorite foods in a thread about guilt over enjoying BDSM in the age of Elizabeth Smart is the kind of harmless topic drift the community wants.

Someone arguing that the Moderators are out of control in a topic called "Deleting Threads (and Posts)" is something the community also wants.

Someone going off topic to launch an attack on another forum member is something the community doesn't want.

Quote:

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Originally posted by S_Couture
What neither of you seems to understand is that this is a community. The extra stuff that TG is doing is great, but his foremost job is removing posts that are in violation of the law, so as to further to continued use of this community by its members. And secondly, to keep the majority of its members happy and spawn increased contribution by its members.

I think you have done a terrific job meeting the first of your criteria. However, I think have have not done a very good job with the second. You have behaved, not as mediators, but as dictators. I do not argue that you had good intentions. But the most popular thread here was deleted. A veritable flame war has broken out. And people aren't posting.

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A mediator is a peacemaker, someone who goes between warring parties to try ro remove hostility. That's generally my nature, but not what I'm on trial in this thread for.

Dictator: NOUN: 1a. An absolute ruler. b. A tyrant; a despot.

Come now... isn't this just veiled name calling? Am I really that bad, or are you just assuming a bunch of things about me and my behavior that you have never run afoul of?

I want you to enjoy yourself here as my peer. I also want to keep the place tidy and ugly shouting-match free, if I can. Can you offer a recommendation to prevent that? What would you have done, in my shoes? Wait until the fire breaks out and cancel the forum memberships of those who participated?

Have you ever applied for this job? Ever volunteered your services to moderate the forum?

I can so easily understand the anger about seeing threads you love deleted. And I understand trepidation at discovering we do 'prune' threads where flaming, pointless topic-drift occurs. I can even understand why you might hold a bit of a grudge at me for deleting "Favorite Pictures", despite my good intentions.

I am baffled about how I grew to be the enemy... a dictator... in your eyes. Why can't you see my side? Why aren't you trying to walk a mile in my shoes?

I am now past any further apologies about Favorite Pictures. I goofed, I admitted it, I promised to be more careful.

The only person who has any business asking me for an apology for the removal of post is the party whose post I have removed. That's not you. I think you're worried that I will someday. I wish I could relieve your doubts... I don't think I can, actually.

Quote:

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Originally posted by S_Couture
All of this has been spawned due to the spurious deletion and movement of posts by the moderators. And instead of owning up to it, in face of practically unanimous objection, you have continued a pursuit which has turned into the very thing you are here to prevent.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by GaryWilcox
One of the most popular threads in this forum-- Favorite Pictures-- might be gone forever. But it's not TourGuide who's responsible, it's... :: sigh :: little ol' me.

I slipped, and deleted Favorite Pictures. Managed to save Kostly's initial post and about 12% of the pictures, but that's not a lot.

I promise to be careful around all of those threads, and we might see the Favorite Pictures thread return in a few days. Waiting to hear if Jinn can do anything.

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I have owned up to making a mistake since the beginning of this thread, and tried to make amends. I'm not sure what you meant here. But I think you're presuming an awful lot, with the words, practically unanimous objection.

I am exhausted and tired of defending where I don't think I'm wrong and conceding where I have made mistakes.

I have yet to see anyone offer me one alternative option to deleeting the flames other than leave them in and ignore the Code of Conduct.

At one time I was moderating five large forums at one time. I know that it is hard work. I'm not beating you up over past mistakes.

All I am saying is that the practice of going out of your way to find old posts to move or delete has caused this whole mess. When I was a mod, I did something similar to this one girl I considered a spammer. I ended up going back into the history and deleting her out of existence. I thought I was doing a good thing, but the forum members reacted in a similar manner to the members here.

Something else I found helpful was to have two aliases. A mod alias and a moderator alias. That way your mod stuff doesn't follow you to your other forum participation and enjoyment.

What's with the censorship, people? A good example - there was a thread started by someone called whoreman (apparently whipit in a previous existence) on something that interests me - overweight BDSM women. The moderators ranted, in the thread, at this person (male, I guess) for even daring to call someone fat ( oh please, dear moderators, how PC can you get? It's like CNN!) and then deleted his replies! Some of us would have liked to know more about this person's point of view - it was an interesting topic. I would have thought that this forum, of all forums, would have been open minded and TOLERANT enough to allow all people's points of view posted.

If we were to censor the site, we would decide which posts would go through and which ones don't. That's the difference between censoring and deleting a dead thread that no one's read for six months, but thousands of people have had the chance to look at.

However, since you seemed to have missed it in your perusal of these forums, please have a look at post number one in the Forums Updates thread.

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Originally posted by Tree
I would have thought that this forum, of all forums, would have been open minded and TOLERANT enough to allow all people's points of view posted.

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There is an emormous difference between voicing one's opinion and posting just for the sake of attacking people. The person in question insulted the women in the Personal Photograhy section calling them fat and ugly. He was attacking the memebers of this site. Did he compliment them on being brave for posting their pictures in a public forum for all to see? Did he stop to think of how his comment would affect those he was refering to? Well yes I am sure he did stop to think because he wanted to hurt these people's feelings and self esteem. THAT is why he was banned and his posts erased. Had he brought his comments forth in a respectful manner, he never would have been deleted.

There are rules here and there are consequences if they aren't followed. Please Read The Code of Conduct Manwhore/Whipit broke the CoC on many occasions and there are precious few sad to see him or his posts go.

I was and still am one of the most vocal people in regards to the idea of threads and posts being deleted…

Since the beginning of this thread there have been changes made to this site….bending and compromising…and this is how I see the way it has turned out…and yes I know my opinion probably doesn’t mean a lot but here it goes…because now I know it will be respected

The code of conduct has been updated… the ambiguities erased… it is a code that is no longer a list of suggestions but a set of solid rules… and in it now, there are rule that say not only what is expected of us… but also rules on what we can expect from the Administrator and the Moderators of this site… There are now solidly stated rules in Forum update about what can and can’t be deleted….what will and will not be tolerated….

For me it boils down to this…

Debate… debate… and debate… agree with each other.. or don’t…but your opinion will be respected…. Your opinion will be one of the building blocks of this forum…One post or a million… all will be treated with equal respect…but to get that respect there is one very simple rule that you must follow… show respect to those around you….

We all have the right, no not the right, but the obligation to expect respect from those around us…we have the right to show our souls and KNOW that no one will plunge a knife into it…and if they try they will be told NO...we will not accept that from you...that that behavior will not be tolerated…we have the right to demand the best of those around us… of lifting the bar and saying.. love me… hate me.. your choice… but you will respect me….and your name or title doesn’t matter…

That is at the very core of everything this lifestyle stands for….

Someone accused me of being reactionary about my opinion.. and I never denied it…of me saying “there is your power… where’s mine?” and I was… I’m a subbie... its in the job description….I was fighting for a contract that said.. here are the rules we must ALL live by… here is what I expect of you.. and in return here is what you can expect of me…and in my opinion we have been give that…its up to us now to live by it.. we all have that simple choice now…

Peace….
~d~

Not to flog a dead horse, but Faibhar started a similar thread about how disappointed he was by his first few attempts to meet BDSM groups at 'munches', this disappointment being largely due to how little the other participants cared about maintaining their appearance. That thread drew many responses, some well-considered and some intemperate, but Faibhar's (and my, and the other more angry responses) were not deleted BECAUSE the intent of the postings was much different (I hesitate to say 'purer') than Manwhore's intent.

Faibhar is a guy with a gripe and a position, which he defended pretty well; Manwhore/whipit is a vandal who gets his kicks by making people react to him. It makes him feel powerful.

Ferreting out other posters' intent is one of the least desirable parts of the job of being a moderator. With Manwhore, there was (at one time) a large body of evidence, thoughtfully provided by the 'man' himself, to show cause for his banishment. I would've been a lot quicker on the trigger than BDSM_Tourguide was.

In other words, from the point of view of this longer-term member of the boards, Manwhore's deletion was an example of excessive tolerance, rather than a lack of tolerance.

Geez, Tourguide. You can't hardly win!

.

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Curtis: I would've been a lot quicker on the trigger than BDSM_Tourguide was.

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Me too! Recognise a post for what it is, and delete it immediately if it serves no purpose other than aggravation or offense.

If I want nastiness, I'll find a good story on the site. I don't want it in the forums ;)

and to ~d~: loved your post. I'm sure many would echo your words.

Here here.

I agree wholeheartedly with d

Having previously attended a forum where that was seriously diverted, almost ruined, by one callous individual I think it is quite reasonable to get shot of them once their motivation has been determined. You can debate and diffuse insults all you like but it's hardly fun and it's really not very stimulating or fulfilling. Implicit in a forum such as this is the right to individual respect, more so than other forums because of the very personal nature of the discussion. I agree with Curtis that a low threshold for intolerance of abusers is justified.

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Since the beginning of this thread there have been changes made to this site….bending and compromising…and this is how I see the way it has turned out…

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The rules weren't changed all that much. We just clarified some things. Talked about our needs. Responded to member concerns. And that's SOP, too. Jinn made me a SuperModerator so that TG and I could police each other equally. We brought in some new Moderators to help us out. We clarified how to handle concerns with the SuperModerators, to try and motivate people to resolve their conflicts with us through Jinn rather than having to 'read about it in the newspapers', so to speak.

What's not mentioned is that we nailed down specific protocols about dealing with CoC Violations. And that we did it in the chatroom, right in front of present members. We accepted input and on a few occasions asked for input, and got some great assistance. To those few present, thank you for your assistance.

In trying to do this job, I've found ways to handle different crises better for the community. I've evolved a bit. Will the new resolutions pass muster with everyone? Hell, no. For my part, our continual process to improve things and protect this community has been a nasty, drag out fight, with occasional thank you's from those I try to help. And the occasional opportunity for me to be my silly, trivial self in between putting out fires.

I've been called a 'tyrant' in this thread. Attacked not for what I did, because attacking me is a way to carry on a previous grudge with BDSM TourGuide. Accused of wielding godlike powers irresponsibly. Subtly accused of censorship... and generally, not having the forum's best interests at heart.

At this time I would like to point out that many of you never apologized for treating myself and TG with less respect and dignity than you demand from us, and profess to have for each other.

But, on the other hand, one or two of you actually thanked us. And some of you evolved a bit, too, in your understanding of what my intentions are and who I am, and lightened up on TG as well, putting aside some old grudges... I hope we are moving on and working together.

Those of you who tried to understand our position (particularly in the chatroom) and offered suggestions and constructive criticism of our work (Lord Douche, LordTaylor, and a pre-Mod redEva come to mind), pat yourselves on the back that you accomplished change by talking to us and openly expressing concerns as our peers and friends.

Quote:

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Originally posted by GaryWilcox
Those of you who tried to understand our position (particularly in the chatroom) and offered suggestions and constructive criticism of our work (Lord Douche, LordTaylor, and a pre-Mod redEva come to mind), pat yourselves on the back that you accomplished change by talking to us and openly expressing concerns as our peers and friends.

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*is honoured to get a mention*

Good work on the CoC, by the way. I assume you've worked out how to... um... ban people?

*listens for the indrawn breaths*

Quote:

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Originally posted by Lord Douche
*is honoured to get a mention*

Good work on the CoC, by the way. I assume you've worked out how to... um... ban people?

*listens for the indrawn breaths*

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LOL Troublemakin' varmint!

For the most part, I rarely OP myself as I enter chat. But, yes, I do know how to ban people from chat, and from the forum as well. I think that was what I was confused on-- how to ban varmints from the forum-- and in the process of showing TG something else, I happened across the screen.

Again, not a light-hearted responsibility (or something to casually joke about). But if it's gotta be done, I can accomodate.