"Barely Submissive"- A Question of Being

should have read from me. Learn how to do that and a sub/slave life becomes one of pleasure

Sir Russell, my very best to you. ~lil' hug~

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Flaming-Redhead

I'm totally fucked up. *lots of good words that tessa didn't feel led to comment on* I know....I'm fucked up! lol

---

Stop saying that! Please? We all have our fucked up issues. Just because we do have such issues doesn't mean we have to label ourselves in this manner. Yes, this includes you, sweetie. ~hugs~

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wedjat

In ANY characteristic in ANY group of humans the only thing one can count on is that there are going to be differences between them and a RANGE of differences from very strong to barely there.

---

Excellently stated! Thank you for presenting it like this. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ozme52

First, one can't speak out of turn here... especially if offering an opinion.

---

I was going to say this to Wedjat, but now I'll just highlight Oz's words...save a few ketstrokes and still express myself. Thanks, Oz.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ozme52

Every perspective teaches us all

---

Thanks again, Oz. Wise, wise words.

Quote:

---

Now as to 'barely' submissive, I would contend that some feel just a little submissive until they meet the right dominant. When you get chemistry, sparks fly and your submission may well overwhelm you.
Likewise, a somewhat dominant personality may blossom into a full bored uber-dom (pardon the hyperbole) with the right submissive in his "clutches".

---

A perspective from which to learn. Thank you one more time, Oz. Gosh. been doing that quite a bit lately it seems. :)

I'm discovering, for myself at least, that it completely hinges on the matching of minds to make this D/s type relationship work. Some submissives crave the strict Dominant. Then there are others who appreciate the informal-ness certain Dominants prefer. Some Dominants need absolute subservience to find happiness, while others appreciate a different style of submission. It's when the two matches come together and strike into each other that blazes it all into the magic we all seek.

Brings a new perspective to "come on, baby, light my fire".

tessa :wave:

tessa... what else do you think you might learn from me? :blurp_ani

An excellent thread and one I think that should be "required reading" for anyone in the Life, whether newbie, "just curious," or veteran because it gives such a deep and wide perspective of so many issues. Most importantly, it emphasizes the need for mutual trust and clear, open, emotional communication.

I find it amusing sometimes that people focus so much on opposites -- the strength of a Dominant, the weakness of the submissive. They take them as labels and ideals and try desperately sometimes to mold a real human being into a lifeless husk labeled "This" and "That." And then they feel they have failed if they don't conform to the ideal. If you expect perfection in another human being, you're involved in a shell game where you will never, ever find the hidden pea. Relationships are organic. They live in a mutually created "world" separate from ideals and catastrophes. No one is a perfect slave or sub and no one is a perfect Dom or Domme. But they are human and hopefully humane. Emotional closeness and even sentiment may make someone appear "as perfect as it gets." And why should'n't we be gloriously happy with that? Sure, strive to be more...but it has to be more "you" whatever that may mean at any given time. As imperfect humans, we can easily misinterpret one thing for another, trust for suspicion, concern for jealousy, and strength for weakness. Don't the participants in every relationship create mutually accepted definitions of what these things are and mean? So should it be with the arbitrary terms "slave" "sub" "Master" "Domina" or whatever other terms you use to identify yourself by. Otherwise, we sink into dogma and cant and relationships become fossilized into lifeless rite and ritual. We're better than that. And our relationships can be far better than that. And, for Goddess' sake, put some fun into it, too. It's not weak to laugh or to cry or to feel your own frailty or take the occasional ego trip or even to be a little silly. It's human. It's life.

I had some immediate thoughts right away when I read the starter post. I hope I am not reiterating anything that has already been stated because there is so much in here already.

I have been there too with that struggle between self, strength, will and submission. I had a never ending need to try to force the other to prove they were worthy of my trust. I never even clued into the fact that I was not giving any trust to them either. Now there were people that were not worthy of that in the first place and thank god I found that there was people that were worth it.

Everyone has different dynamics in how they view BDSM, lifestyle, marriage and what a dom or sub means to them. I have been where I paid lip service to submission. Allowing the orders, obey without true desire, all the time feeling inner rebelliousness. I have refused to allow inner walls that I built to protect myself to drop and then I never could really feel what becoming open and vulnerable to another means. If you ever find that place once then you can go there again if you really allow yourself to believe that it will free you. I think any true Dom /Domme never desire a mindless doormat; a person who will give away submission to anyone is not valuing themselves so why would the Dom value it. A strong person that submits and gives themselves because they know what they are worth is well worth the journey if the Dom knows what he has.

Exploring the feelings and doubts the way you are is not an easy thing to do when most people would perhaps take it as some sort of failure. I think it is a sign of strength to struggle to understand your fears, how you are strong and how you want to become. I see a lot of people assume that to say you are a sub or a dom means you are instantly transformed into the perfect example. That is the farthest thing from the truth because it is a learning curve that is probably the hardest one to tackle and with the greater reward for you in the end.


I have been on the other side of that too. I had to deal with the feeling of having to lead when I was not sure how to step. I had learned a great deal about the weight of having the role in the eyes of another of being the all knowing and in charge person. I wonder if you had ever considered that the other person in your life feels just as uncertain at times as you do, that they are trying to be the Dom when maybe this is the first time they have ever explored what that means. I wonder if at times the pressure to just know how to be for them is also just as hard too. I also wonder if at times the appearance of inconsistent demands or attempts to be in charge lead to reactions born of frustration and uncertainty on the part of the dominate partner as well. It kind of puts a different spin on it when you try to be in the other shoes.

I hope this makes sense and is not too rambling...

tessa, thank you for the compliment - I'm new to the forums and it was very cool to be quoted in sombody else's comment for the first time. : )

Thank you Greyjack and Ayesha for your insights too. As a newbie to all of this, not just the forums, your well spoken (and definitely not rambling)thoughts are very welcome.

Parts of this life seem incredibly appealing, and parts are just plain scary to somebody coming into it for the first time, especially for the submissive. I know, Doms take risks emotionally too, but they still aren't risking being on the receiving end of an ER trip.

Personally, I tend to be too trusting, but having had to spend the last few years struggling to keep things together financially for me and my daughter after some REALLY sucky decisions made by my husband at the time, would make it hard, if not impossible, for me to ever just hand over decisions - at least those outside the bedroom- to anybody. Fortunately, some of these discussions are helping me see that it all comes down to what the individuals involved agree on. That's a huge thing for me - the communication in a good relationship, whether D/s or vanilla is going to make it or break it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GreyJack

And, for Goddess' sake, put some fun into it, too. It's not weak to laugh or to cry or to feel your own frailty or take the occasional ego trip or even to be a little silly. It's human. It's life.

---

Amen! I've recently discovered this very thing - he seems to enjoy my wit, my brain, my silliness as much as he enjoys my submission. Yay! :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ayesha

I think it is a sign of strength to struggle to understand your fears, how you are strong and how you want to become.

---

Absolutely true.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wedjat

tessa, thank you for the compliment - I'm new to the forums and it was very cool to be quoted in sombody else's comment for the first time. : )

Parts of this life seem incredibly appealing, and parts are just plain scary to somebody coming into it for the first time, especially for the submissive. I know, Doms take risks emotionally too, but they still aren't risking being on the receiving end of an ER trip.

---

Wedjat - here you are - quoted again. :wave:

Just plain scary? Hell, yes! Both emotionally and physically. But, oh so worthwhile. Very worthwhile.

his-j, thanks for quote #2! I have to figure out how to do that : )

I appreciate everybody's comments, and it's all very enlightening. Still working on where I might fit in and what I might want in the long run. One of my biggest concerns is that I worry about losing myself, because, dammit! I like who I am now. I don't want somebody who thinks they have to change me. I do know that we change all the time and growth should be a part of life, and I'm looking to learn new things - and have new things done to me : ) I would like to grow together with someone. Does any of that make sense?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wedjat

his-j, thanks for quote #2! I have to figure out how to do that : )

I appreciate everybody's comments, and it's all very enlightening. Still working on where I might fit in and what I might want in the long run. One of my biggest concerns is that I worry about losing myself, because, dammit! I like who I am now. I don't want somebody who thinks they have to change me. I do know that we change all the time and growth should be a part of life, and I'm looking to learn new things - and have new things done to me : ) I would like to grow together with someone. Does any of that make sense?

---

Quoted again! And yes, it makes perfect sense to me - I too like myself - and it was a long road to get there. And I worried about being "changed". I hit the jackpot though - karma stepped in and put me in the path of one who likes me just the way I am, respects my brain, and values my submissiveness - without feeling the need to change me to fit some predetermined mold. Instead, he is helping me discover (or is it uncover) my submissive nature and is enjoying the journey with me. He's just my type and tells me that I am his, too. I truly am blessed to have him in my life today. And to top it all off with whipped cream and a cherry? The things we do - the things he does with me and to me - well, I can only say OMG, as in "OMG, that was amazing" or "OMG, please don't stop" and my favorite: "OMG, please, may I come again?" for the third or fourth or tenth time...it just got very warm in here, didn't it? :rolleyes:

I hope you find that for yourself. I'm proof that it exists - the perfect match of need and desire.

Eternally grateful,
jeanne

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wedjat

his-j, thanks for quote #2! I have to figure out how to do that : )

---

Look at the bottom right corner of this or any other post. Press the 'quote' button and you're on your way. You'll note bounding [-quote-] and [-/quote-] tags (minus the hyphens) and you can add more of those to split a quote up and add your comments between different parts of the quote.

If you want to quote more than one person, click on the 'multi' button in each of the posts you want... and then go to the bottom and press 'reply'

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by his_j

Quoted again! And yes, it makes perfect sense to me - I too like myself - and it was a long road to get there. And I worried about being "changed". I hit the jackpot though - karma stepped in and put me in the path of one who likes me just the way I am, respects my brain, and values my submissiveness - without feeling the need to change me to fit some predetermined mold. Instead, he is helping me discover (or is it uncover) my submissive nature and is enjoying the journey with me. He's just my type and tells me that I am his, too. I truly am blessed to have him in my life today. And to top it all off with whipped cream and a cherry? The things we do - the things he does with me and to me - well, I can only say OMG, as in "OMG, that was amazing" or "OMG, please don't stop" and my favorite: "OMG, please, may I come again?" for the third or fourth or tenth time...it just got very warm in here, didn't it? :rolleyes:

I hope you find that for yourself. I'm proof that it exists - the perfect match of need and desire.

Eternally grateful,
jeanne

---

Is it an understatement to say you sound very very happy. :cool:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ozme52

Is it an understatement to say you sound very very happy. :cool:

---

Yes. It is an understatement. I'm not only very very, I'm very very very very! Happy, that is. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ozme52

Look at the bottom right corner of this or any other post. Press the 'quote' button and you're on your way. You'll note bounding [-quote-] and [-/quote-] tags (minus the hyphens) and you can add more of those to split a quote up and add your comments between different parts of the quote.

If you want to quote more than one person, click on the 'multi' button in each of the posts you want... and then go to the bottom and press 'reply'

---

:)
Thanks Oz, let me see if this works

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by his_j

Quoted again! And yes, it makes perfect sense to me - I too like myself - and it was a long road to get there. And I worried about being "changed". I hit the jackpot though - karma stepped in and put me in the path of one who likes me just the way I am, respects my brain, and values my submissiveness - without feeling the need to change me to fit some predetermined mold. Instead, he is helping me discover (or is it uncover) my submissive nature and is enjoying the journey with me. He's just my type and tells me that I am his, too. I truly am blessed to have him in my life today. And to top it all off with whipped cream and a cherry? The things we do - the things he does with me and to me - well, I can only say OMG, as in "OMG, that was amazing" or "OMG, please don't stop" and my favorite: "OMG, please, may I come again?" for the third or fourth or tenth time...it just got very warm in here, didn't it? :rolleyes:

I hope you find that for yourself. I'm proof that it exists - the perfect match of need and desire.

Eternally grateful,
jeanne

---

....and thank you once again, Jeanne. I appreciate your comments very much, and you give me hope. I'll have to keep that whipped cream and cherry in mind if I do meet someone (or get to meet the someone I've been chatting with! I'll have to thank him again for telling me about this site. : )

<<== likes whipping creamy cherries.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ozme52

tessa... what else do you think you might learn from me? :blurp_ani

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ozme52

<<== likes whipping creamy cherries.

---

Something like that, maybe? :p Seriously Oz, I learn something from you most every time I read what you write. (I won't say "every time" as your ego probably doesn't need any more stroking than that.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GreyJack

Most importantly, it emphasizes the need for mutual trust and clear, open, emotional communication.

---

Anything that promotes that vital need is worth the reading.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GreyJack

Sure, strive to be more...but it has to be more "you" whatever that may mean at any given time. As imperfect humans, we can easily misinterpret one thing for another, trust for suspicion, concern for jealousy, and strength for weakness. Don't the participants in every relationship create mutually accepted definitions of what these things are and mean? So should it be with the arbitrary terms "slave" "sub" "Master" "Domina", or whatever other terms, you use to identify yourself by? Otherwise, we sink into dogma and cant and relationships become fossilized into lifeless rite and ritual. We're better than that.

---

YES! Exactly that. Using the term "fossilized" provides the concreteness to the abstract. Without the continual evolution of growth and change, the connection will become stagnant and lifeless. Ick. No thanks. I'm for more. And more. More of me, more of him, more of Us.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ayesha

Everyone has different dynamics in how they view BDSM, lifestyle, marriage and what a dom or sub means to them.

---

And that's perfectly acceptable. We all define for ourselves. It's the individualness of it all that creates the special qualities each of us can bring into our own lives.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ayesha

I have refused to allow inner walls that I built to protect myself to drop and then I never could really feel what becoming open and vulnerable to another means. If you ever find that place once then you can go there again if you really allow yourself to believe that it will free you.

---

It is very freeing, isn't it? In a way that is impossibly difficult to describe, but so incredible to experience.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ayesha

Exploring the feelings and doubts the way you are is not an easy thing to do when most people would perhaps take it as some sort of failure. I think it is a sign of strength to struggle to understand your fears, how you are strong and how you want to become. I hope this makes sense and is not too rambling...

---

I think you said it just the way it needed to be said. Especially this part. Especially for me. Thank you. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wedjat

tessa, thank you for the compliment - I'm new to the forums and it was very cool to be quoted in sombody else's comment for the first time. : )

---

You are most welcome. Thank you for providing the words to quote in the first place. And don't I love being someone's first. ;)

tessa :wave:

[QUOTE=tessa;491287]Something like that, maybe? :p Seriously Oz, I learn something from you most every time I read what you write. (I won't say "every time" as your ego probably doesn't need any more stroking than that.)

True... but let's talk some more about stroking. There's more to me than my ego. :blurp_ani

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Flaming-Redhead

I've spent my entire adult life topping him from the bottom as well as blatently topping him, and he only showed some backbone when it came to custody of our son. I'm living with the ramifications of my decisions, but I feel it was the only way to keep my sanity, literally. I had 2 bouts of severe depression during my marriage. The first time, 3 years into the marriage, I was in complete denial of what the problem was and opted for medication, titrating up to the highest dose of Serzone, which was 300 mg a day, for 2 years. The second time, 4 years after going off the medication, I opted for marriage counseling which didn't save the marriage but made me realize it was okay to let go. I only weighed 99 pounds when I left him. I feel much better now, though I still suffer from insomnia. I have a chance to start over, and I'm trying really hard not to be the bossy, nagging bitch I was with him. It's no easy feat, especially when showing respect for a man doesn't exactly come naturally to me.

---

Wow, thanks for sharing that. Saving my sanity is the one reason I might justify ending my marriage. It may come to that, eventually.

*blushes* You're welcome. I'm not really an advocate for divorce because it can be a nasty business, but in my case, I literally felt that it was a do or die situation. If you're considering it, make damn sure it's what you really want and worth any price because, trust me, you won't get out unscathed...i.e. loss of friends (they'll take sides), disapproval of family members, child(ren) choosing to live with the other parent, ex threatening to expose your proclivities to DFACS, ex threatening to make trouble at your job, etc. *deep breath* I'm still alive, and I'm doing the best that I can. Most days, I'm even happy! *smiles* People like tessa and DareDevil and VoodooMan....I don't know what I'd do without them....real people who love me just the way I am....*cries* I'm sorry....anyway, I don't regret what I had to do. I regret that I had no fight left in me....that I listened to my mother and tried to be nice to him....felt sorry for him even....while he was playing dirty....

See, this is why I stay away from this thread.....I blab too much! grrrr Don't touch me! Stop looking at me like that! I don't want or need your pity. This bitch right here is tough! *nods a lot* Everyone back away from the red-head slowly, and you won't get hurt!

*whispers* ppssttt....tessa, you can hug me all you want but only 'cause you give those boobie squishing hugs, and your hair smells nice....mmmmm

Red
I understand how it felt and I think I understand the why you did what you did. You wanted to do the right thing, to be able to live with yourself in the after time. To maybe have a friendship so that the child or children would not be subjected to the doubt that comes from parents tearing each other down.

I respect what you tried to do

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Flaming-Redhead

Everyone back away from the red-head slowly, and you won't get hurt!

*whispers* ppssttt....tessa, you can hug me all you want but only 'cause you give those boobie squishing hugs, and your hair smells nice....mmmmm

---

~huggles Red all up, adds in more boob squishing than is necessary 'cause it feels so very good~ Yeah, you're a toughie, alright. And cute. Let's not forget cute. :)

You know, even being married to someone who's willing to be involved in all this is still a tough deal sometimes. Life gets in the way, stress gets in the way, the need for sleep gets in the way, the damn phone ringing gets in the way, the fact that you just can't up and run off and stay kinkyfied together, alone, for like a year or two, gets in that way...I could go on and on, but I think these perhaps get the point across.

It's an ongoing deal...no matter what. It's the glimpse of what it all can be and feel that keeps one going for more...and more. Addiction in the sweetest way, I say.

MMMMMMM Gotta love it when the boobie squishing lasts a little longer than necessary. *ggls*

Even dating a dominant, work gets in the way....*le sigh* Trying to be creative and inspirational is hard. I'm currently in the midst of plotting something inspirational, but it's difficult because I don't usually premeditate...um...reasons for a spanking....*eg* Drastic times call for drastic measures!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Flaming-Redhead

I'm currently in the midst of plotting something inspirational, but it's difficult because I don't usually premeditate...um...reasons for a spanking....*eg* Drastic times call for drastic measures!

---

~giggles at Red's "premeditation"~

I told you...bend over the back of the sofa, stick that luscious ass of yours out a bit and say "please". Just do it with that mischevious glint in your eye and a wicked smile on your face.

Premeditate that way and see if you get your "drastic" self taken care of, ok?

Then come tell me about it...detail whore that I am, and all. ;)

Tell us all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ozme52

Tell us all.

---

Are boys called 'detail whores' as well, or is there another term for that?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tessa

Are boys called 'detail whores' as well, or is there another term for that?

---

Umm, maybe "he's a detail nut" would be better. ;)

btw in Swedish there's this lovely word for someone who is totally into a certain (scientific?) subject, excluding all others: fackidiot ("discipline idiot") Now, that's really a juicy word isn't it tessa? :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tessa

Are boys called 'detail whores' as well, or is there another term for that?

---

Men? Yeah, I think that's the term.

Red
I have to laugh at the idea that you have to create a need to be spanked. Any lady of mine only has to be breathing and within grabbing distance to get her lovely bottom turned pink or red. Then I love it when there is a submissive's pretty bottom over my knee squirming and begging for more or to cum.

Red,

Did you get that spanking?

I'm with Tessa on this one.

You might need to drop a ton of bricks on said partner and say something like, "I really need a spanking! May you give me one, please?"

It always works for me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sir_Russell

Red
I have to laugh at the idea that you have to create a need to be spanked. Any lady of mine only has to be breathing and within grabbing distance to get her lovely bottom turned pink or red. Then I love it when there is a submissive's pretty bottom over my knee squirming and begging for more or to cum.

---

*sigh* Hopefully, I'll get my first 'pleasure spanking' one of these days. : ) Have to work on that "grabbing distance" part. Darned Rockies.:rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Flaming-Redhead

This conversation with tessa came about because of Lord Hemloc's personal ad. He was looking for a slave which I have never considered myself to be. I've never wanted to be a slave due to some negative feelings about the whole idea of just giving in completely, and if I take an honest look at myself, I'm barely even submissive. However, upon reading the ad, it touched something way down deep in my soul. The problem is that deep inside my soul there's a hole you don't wanna see. It's an ugly, foul, black abyss where madness rules, and if I listen to the whispers of the demons that dwell down there for very long, I begin to long for death to come and take me. This madness interferes with my need to submit, and it is definitely a need because when dominance is withheld from me I am greatly frustrated and unhappy. I imagine this is quite confusing to my dominant since I resist him at every opportunity. Why? I've been thinking about it for a long time, and I believe it's due to absolute terror. I can remember when just the thought of being collared would almost send me into a panic attack, but I still kept searching...my need driving me onward in spite of the fear. When I read "Story of O" based on a friend's recommendation, I thought it was very erotic, but I was troubled for O. I was angry with her each time she gave in to the demands of Rene who obviously didn't love her at all. I was angry because I'm also guilty of having let myself be used by people who didn't deserve to lick the bottom of my shoes. I was hopeful about Sir Stephen, only to discover that my worst fears were realized in the end. I have trust and abandonment issues for good reason, and the book echoes the questions that I ask myself. If I do everything he wants, will he love me or despise me? Does he love me, or is he using my need to be loved and accepted to manipulate me as has happened throughout my life? What if I surrender myself completely to his will only to be abandoned when he tires of me? That right there would be the death of me for sure because I don't think I could ever give myself to someone like that more than once. Other questions also continue to nag me. What if I am never able to surrender? What if no one is willing or able to break through? I will be a very miserable person since I can't go back to vanilla. *sigh* I've resolved to keep trying. It's the only choice I have, really. Some progress is being made though not as much as I would like, so I'm not only struggling with disappointing him but also myself. It definitely helps to have a kindred spirit to talk to while drinking a Ruby Relaxer and daydreaming about riding...um....horses.

tessa, we are a team, so you are not alone! *hugs* Now, we need to think of an appropriate name for our team and get some cute uniforms, preferably something with a very short skirt and maybe some of those new-fangled thingies you call "panties."

---

Tessa and All,

This is a Great topic I think <soft smiles>, and raises some very valid points, and I have read them all. Though I have chosen Reds posted response to give my own experience on things She writes about. Because I can soooo relate to Her thoughts.

Back in the beginning of my Journey into the BDSM Style of relating, I had a Mentor who later became my *M* for a time of 3 years. All of the questions and fears you write of Red, I experienced. Including the feeling of "abandonement" when I was Released....and all the devastation you speak of percieving it may be should it happen to you. Though it was never Really that....however I percieved it to be so for a while. It was simply Time, however I fought and struggled for it not to be. It Was! That Reality was very hard for me. As hard as you describe. I quit my job of 8 years, took to my bed, as if terminally ill, and even had my lymph nodes swell all over my body. The bottom line Really, was my struggle with Me. When I resolved that, I was better for it All. My last and final, and most difficult Gift and Lesson from my *M*and Mentor of that day. And I am soooo very Blessed for it!

Truly one cannot Give Control one does not have. One must have Power to hand ones Power over to Someone else. So could it be for You and Other(s) who think they are "Barely Submissive", that is actually Owning one's own Power? "Barely Submissive" means *to me* that it is My Choice to Whom I Submit. I have no obligation to Submit to Anyone or Anything I do not wish to. And I will NOT Submit, nor Give My Submission, simply because it exists within me, nor because of my need for it to be Accepted/Taken....even with the ache that causes. "Barely Submissive" means *to me* that I am no ones doormat, that I have a brain that functions well, that even as Slave I am a Person First, and I have no need, desire, nor tolerance for abuse, and that no matter who or what comes or goes I have my own Spirit. I am also quite mischevious <WEG>.

In my entire Life I have only actually Submitted to 2 other PPL. And I am primarily Dominant with others. Does that make me "Barely Submissive"? Or does that just make me Knowledgable enough and Experienced enough to Know the differences of what Is and what is not?

For me, "Barely Submissive" means I have walked and struggled through the Fire, and I have come out the other side Whole. It means I have the opportunity to continue to Grow and Learn, and I have and I will. Pain is sometimes the best Teacher <G>.

It is said that *when the Pupil is Ready, the Teacher Will Appear*. I believe and Know this to be True. It is also said * a Time and a Season for Everything*. Faith is the key to these doors then?

Respectfully~SidheWolf

Wow, I have to say "thank you" to all of you. I know you couldn't have realized what this could mean to so many people when you started the thread, but from the responses, all I can say is "Wow".

Maybe it was the things I read as I grew up. The Gor novels as well as they hysterical, er...sorry, historical romances, but for some reason, I wanted my spouse to be strong in himself, but cherish me. I wished to be submissive and to have him bring out my desires, even if I didn't know it. I expected him to teach me. Maybe if we both hadn't been completely inexperienced. Although I had read the Gor novels and they had greatly appealed to me and whew! made me have some really hot dreams, I didn't think there were really people like that. I was young. What did I know?

After my wedding, my husband treated me like a child. Well, to a certain extent he probably needed to, but there was only do what I tell you to do and no consideration for me at all. For years, I was never enough. Not thin enough, too loud, not smart enough (grrr, smarter than him, dammit), didn't make enough money, was too emotional, etc. Never what he wanted even though he said he loved me. :(

I met someone online who introduced me gradually to some aspects of bondage and at first I was enthusiastic. Maybe this was what I had been wanting/needing. But as one relationship developed another deteriorated. I finally left my husband and moved out on my own.

On my own...what a terrifying thing that can be. Loneliness, and being faced with learning who you are. Then other things fell apart...I lost so many loved ones...family members that were like blows to my psyche. Then illness piled on that. I had to be strong. I was the only one there was now. How could I submit to someone else, even online, when I had to be strong all the time IRL?

Seeing this thread, I realize that maybe those glimpses into the submission weren't as far off base as I re-thought they were.

So thank you for your words and insights.

Softly, as a relative newbie myself, I understand some of what you're going through. I see a similarity to some of your past, too. My ex was just critical of EVERYTHING that either I did, or our daughter did. (Don't eat so fast!, Gee you eat so slow!) It gets very wearing after a while. I've had to struggle financially, but I think she and I were both more relaxed after we split. Good luck in your search and your personal growth - it sounds like your head is on straight and you're headed in the right direction.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wedjat

Softly, as a relative newbie myself, I understand some of what you're going through. I see a similarity to some of your past, too. My ex was just critical of EVERYTHING that either I did, or our daughter did. (Don't eat so fast!, Gee you eat so slow!) It gets very wearing after a while. I've had to struggle financially, but I think she and I were both more relaxed after we split. Good luck in your search and your personal growth - it sounds like your head is on straight and you're headed in the right direction.

---

Sadly, it seems to be a fact of life that the ones that hurt us the most are the ones that we love the most. If only people knew how fragile trust is. It's hard enough to get through life when everything is ok, but harder to do when you question your own judgement because of previous errors.

I said it better earlier, but due to login gremlins, lost the post.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Softly

Sadly, it seems to be a fact of life that the ones that hurt us the most are the ones that we love the most. If only people knew how fragile trust is. It's hard enough to get through life when everything is ok, but harder to do when you question your own judgement because of previous errors.

---

Aint it the truth. Those who know us best hurt us the most. You wouldn't treat a stranger that badly... why do we tend to treat someone we love so illy?

Quote:

---

I said it better earlier, but due to login gremlins, lost the post.

---

If it happens again, try using your 'back button' after logging back in... you may well find the original post still in the text box and can resubmit it from there. Worked for me when I had these problems... and try the "Remember Me" box when you log in.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ozme52

Aint it the truth. Those who know us best hurt us the most. You wouldn't treat a stranger that badly... why do we tend to treat someone we love so illy?

If it happens again, try using your 'back button' after logging back in... you may well find the original post still in the text box and can resubmit it from there. Worked for me when I had these problems... and try the "Remember Me" box when you log in. [/SIZE]

---

I am starting to believe that the reason we treat each other so illy is because of a lack of respect. When I was growing up we called adults Mr., Mrs., or Miss, and in the case of older adults, unless you were one yourself, you never addressed them by their first name...unless requested too. Now it's common place to address anyone by their first name, no matter how little or well you know that person. We were also taught to respect the rights of others, but that has long ago been thrown out the window. No one has manners anymore and no one respects any one else any more. I used to think that was good. Now I don't think so.

As for the lost post, I tried what you suggested, but my post had been sucked into that black void of computer prose. ;)

Well I really have to say thank you, after at first finding this topic and all the posts a bit overwhelming.
A lot of what I know is based on my first poly Master/slave relationship to which I was able to do a lot of watching and I remember clearly the slave commenting to me how I fight being a submissive, perhaps I was not one, that accepting came so easy and naturally to her...she knew her place immediately (:4: tell you something more about me too? )
Yet here most everyone is reaffirming my feelings also, the fear, independance, stubborness, fear of abandonment, problems and more so.

Thank you...I don't feel so far out in the middle of nowhere nor so odd.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sidhewolf

Tessa and All,

This is a Great topic I think

---

Thanks. You're kind to say so.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sidhewolf

In my entire Life I have only actually Submitted to 2 other PPL. And I am primarily Dominant with others. Does that make me "Barely Submissive"? Or does that just make me Knowledgable enough and Experienced enough to Know the differences of what Is and what is not?

For me, "Barely Submissive" means I have walked and struggled through the Fire, and I have come out the other side Whole. It means I have the opportunity to continue to Grow and Learn, and I have and I will. Respectfully~SidheWolf

---

I got so much from your words here. Thanks again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Softly

Seeing this thread, I realize that maybe those glimpses into the submission weren't as far off base as I re-thought they were.

So thank you for your words and insights.

---

And thank you right back for your comments. You didn't know how you'd be helping either, I'm guessing. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PRO DOM

I’ve never thought about dom as high and sub as low as in hierarchy which is vertical but rather horizontal as in dom/sub in a power exchange. She may be at my feet but if I’m not in tune with her needs I may as well be at hers.

---

This was very well stated. I appreciate your thoughts here. My thanks to you as well.

tessa :wave:

I've just discovered this excellent thread- very well put Tessa.

I can't sit here & read the whole 5 pages, but I hope someone pointed out that submission is a journey into the unknown. Somewhat like closing your eyes & jumping off a cliff- hoping the one you're trusting your life to knows what he's doing, & also hoping you'll be OK if he doesn't! :eek:

Feelings can come up like never before, whole chunks of sadness & terror can be uncovered in the journey. It can be likened to going into therapy.

I'd be hesitant myself- Doms might sound good & look impressive sometimes, but to be a true sub & just let go of everything- that amazes the hell out of me.

well said Tojo

Just as a real sub can't do what a Dom does and learns to identify them then serve them, a Dom knows that he can't go where a sub can that all we can do is be the guide and enjoy the voyage.