I would have to agree with you, Cariad. I see it all the time in my line of work, which is sadly pathetic, especially given all of the advances that our society as a whole has.
Printable View
I would have to agree with you, Cariad. I see it all the time in my line of work, which is sadly pathetic, especially given all of the advances that our society as a whole has.
I am and always will be a US Marine---I retired recently from the reserve ---having served my country more than 22 years on active duty and reserve duty. I have lived my life with honor and done what was asked of me by the government that the people elected. I lost brothers and friends in Vietnam and Family in Iraq.
I love my country and respect the flag, and it does disturb me to see it dishonored. But we need to stop second guessing ---stop pointing fingers. All of this is just meaningless attempts to get attention. And when we quit giving it the attention it does not deserve, then it will quit being an issue.
It is like naughty children, doing something they know is wrong just to get the parents attention. So you spank the child and never find out why they did it. Then the next time they want attention they may do it again.
If the elected representives would spend as much time and effort on keeping American people fed --housed ---health care ---education ---they would have no time for such little things as flag burning laws.
The Flag means different things to different people, Just like prayers in schools, The rebel flag in the southren courthouses, the teaching of evolution is school, and other such personal things that upset an individual.
to some people the flag is nothing but a pretty thing blowing in the breeze, and it will never be anything more. Why because we failed to teach them what it really is. A symbol of liberty and freedom, that marks and set this country apart from all others.
Yes we have problems, And maybe the flag burners are trying to draw attention to those problems. I do not think that is the right way of doing it, I on the other hand am active in trying to elect people from my state that will forget the little things and work for the people. That is the way to effect change in the government, not burning flags, not complaining to each other.
Get out there ---and get the idiots out of congress that are not serving the people. The ones that tell you what you want to hear during elections, but once elected fail to follow thru ---why do we keep electing these people.
That is why I made a comment early in this thread, because you know what, no matter what comments are made here---they will not change a thing
I am all for active change --you do not like something---get out and try to change it ---just like the stories on the front page-of this forum---I was so tired of seeing poor reviews by other authors ---that I started Writer's Block to teach new authors ----I do lead by example
So you hate flag burning ---lets do something about it ---lets find out why they are doing it. Lets teach our own children to respect the flag.
Think Flag burning is a non issue---great lets do something about it --lets vote those idiots out of congress that spent months of time and a lot of money trying to draft the amendment out and get some people with good old common sense in the office.
I would never burn the flag to get attention ---but a bon fire in some congressman's front yard might be in order to get their attention ---lol
I agree with Rabbit1, let's get people into Washington that will deal with and solve the issues of Mental Health, Homlesness, Medical Insurance ect ect and let's worry less about less important issues let'sh ave our reprentatives in Washington servethe needs of the people and not their own needs
We have amid term election in Novmeber, vote your concioud but VOTE, if you do not vote you have right right to complain about ANYTHING
As the saying goes "If you are NOT part of the solution or part of the peoblem what the .... are you doing here
Simply put even if this is turce, vote or shut up!!! If you don't vote in November don't complain after words over who was elected, you had your chance
So much I could say here, and most of it I want to chew over before I risk posting it. But one thing I would like to throw in if I may.
Anything I had to say about patriotism in the United States would have little value, as I have never lived there, so I can only think of it in terms of my own country, the United Kingdom (and even to call it that is controversial of course!) I am fairly left-of-centre when it comes to politics, although my faith means that I often find that I am not looking at political issues through the usual left-right perspective. However, I do find that as I grow older (not THAT old as yet, thank you very much) I get more and more attached to the UK. I do not believe that it is the best place on earth by any means, but it is certainly my favourite, because it is mine.
This means that I care about my country and the way it behaves. In turn, this means that I treasure the right to contest what our flag is made to stand for, because it represents me. I want the right to disagree with the things that are done in the name of the UK, and I can well imagine a situation in which the only way I was able graphically to disassociate myself from actions taken by my goverment would be to destroy the emblem of that government. To me it is a legitimate act of protest, and need not be a betrayal of one's own country. Those of us who love the places we live want to make them the best we can, and want them to act in the way that we consider to be the most responsible.
There is a continual battle for the meaning of our national symbols. In the UK, this often manifests itself in attempts by the far Right to take possesion of the Union Flag and in effect to associate it with racism, thus making it hard for us to use our national flag(s) without those overtones. Acts such as flag burning highlight the contest for what our respective countries stand for, and what they aim to achieve. That debate has to happen, and if the flags serve a useful symbolic (unifying) purpose in the first place, then burning them can be an equally valid and useful way of saying that the uniformity they appear to represent is illusory.
OK, anyone want to explain to me what the heck I just said?
CC
Quote:
Originally Posted by cariad(CC)
Let me start by saying I believe the US definitely needs health care reform - to be sure the ability to get low-cost prescription drugs is a major problem; however, it is a myth that you can't be poor and get health care in the US - the US has many programs to help the poor get health care: medicaid, medicare, state programs, walk into an emergency room, county programs, a friend of mine who chose to retire early (thus not eligible for medicare), had 401(k) )thus not eligible for medicaid) was able to receive receive free treatment for colon cancer thru gov program. What is true is that you may not be able to get the BEST healthcare available in the US if you're poor; however, that is true of many people in those countries who have a national healthcare system - they often cannot get healthcare in their counties comparable to the healthcare the wealthiest Americans have access to. That just seems to be a fact of life - being wealthy gets you more better stuff.
In addition Cariad, the example you cited seemed to support the proposition that this friend, in fact, did get the necessary health care. She had the right to choose better health care rather than owning a home. Not a fun choice, but a choice freely made. However, the US also provides some protections about owning a home which makes me wonder why your friend lost her home unless the hospital made her pre-pay which seems unlikely. Legally, one can run up a ton of medical bills, fail to pay them, and then file bankruptcy to make the bills go away and still keep one's house and other "exempt" assets.
Rabbit1,
I agree in theory that working to elect good officials is the best way to acheive reform, but I have gotten cynical over the years of watching Americans vote for the "more likeable" and "better financed" candidates rather than the smarter or more self-less candidates. How does one get attention paid to one's ideas if you don't have financing? Write an intelligent letter to the editor and no one pays attention. Burn a flag and all the major networks show. Sad but true.
fantassy
Quote:
Originally Posted by fantassy
you are right about candidates getting attention ---but that is where we the people come in ---if enough of the complainers get out off their couch and start helping getting out the word about the right canidates then the money one spends is not so much an issue----and those same people can help raise money for the canidate they believe in ----you are right doing bad things get media atteniton ----you see militants in Iraq on TV---what you do not see is more than half are not from Iraq but from other countries there to stir things up and no let freedom in ---the main people of Iraq want this freedom --it is the other countries that do not want them to have it or it may spread to their country ---but you do not see that on TV or in the papers ---You just see what sells newspapers and gets rating ---I have family in Iraq and they believe in what is going on there ----I would rather believe them than the media
This should not even be a political issue ---congress voted on this ----for what ever reason ---now just because it is not going the way they thought it should ---everyone is backing off ---our troops did not ask to go ---they are serving their country ---as I and may other before me have----there is no way to win a political war----
But back to the point being cynical watching is a problem in it self---instead of watching ---why not get out there and do something----too many people watch and see things not go the right way instead of trying to steer it the right way ----yes I live in Florida the home of the recount---lol
when you see it not going the right way it is most likely too late ---and if you are busy trying to steer it the right way ---you will not have time to see it going wrong----in 66 days we have a mid term election here ----and as a rule it is the most under voted period in our system---get out and vote --pick up and take a friend with you----lend a ride to people who have transportation problems -----Talk about your canidate to others ----if you can help them raise money
I personally have nothing against burning the flag. If that's the way you want to protest, that is your right to. Heck if you wanted to set yourself on fire in protest, thats fine by me. We have the right to express how we feel. However I would personally never do such a thing, with the exception of retiring an old flag.
The fact that the government has taken the time to argue and debate on this matter makes me sick. There are thousands of other pressing issues in the country, and they spend their time on.. flag burning of all things?
Flag burning gets the attention it does, because to address flag burning, they don't need to reform a current infrastructure, they don't need to fund research to make it happen, they get to just talk about a highly charged issue, and look good when they say "I agree, its not a good thing..... blah blah blah." Droning on about that issue makes it look as though they care about doing something while in office.Quote:
Originally Posted by brattyone
I agree with Rabbit, getting out and highlighting the issues at hand, that is the best way to motivate people for change.
The #1 roadblock that will be encounted when making fundemental change in any of our government supported systems, e.g. education, heath care, is tax reform.
V/R
ID