(While grabbing my chest & slowly shaking my head...)
Thanks Curtis. You and the BDSM_Tourguide did capture the essence of what I was saying. But Curtis, the thread is ancient to you because you?ve been reading it for years. Those of us who have only recently joined the site (Is 2002 recent enough?) or are new to forums have never been over-exposed to this topic. (By the way, don't consider using Viagra with questionable blood pressure. That is a joke, all you serious-minded folks!*)
Maybe I'm the only one here old enough to have personally known the fervor regarding the book, "Lolita". As I recall, that (fictional) story was written about an under-aged sexual relationship. I don't seem to recall anything about the book being illustrated and, had it been so, it would have caused an entirely different controversy, as the movie did many years later. However, it (the book) was banned as child pornography simply by its written words. To call child porn only images of actual persons is to come dangerous close to being arrested for being in possession of illegal literature, thankfully no longer, Lolita. So, I believe my comparison of snuff literature to other banned literature remains valid: both are seen as objectionable to some people.
Regarding my comment about subs, as I said (with the clear indication that I was laughing), I know nothing about submissive lifestyles. Attacking my admission of ignorance is hardly necessary and seems redundant, doesn't it? LOL! (I'm 'Laughing Out Loud' at myself, just in case someone thinks I am foolish enough to repeat the previous misunderstanding). I was merely referring to the location jeanne states on her profile: teacher. Perhaps I'm twisted but that got a giggle out of me. In no way was my offhand comment meant to offend anyone in any way at any time. If my joke was taken that way, I humbly apologize.
I am shocked at how many people feel the need to explain that they don't kill other people because they read or write snuff stories. If we all needed to explain that 'fiction is not fact' every time we posted anything, this site would be buried in more explanations than stories and forum posts combined. LOL! (Please see above.) Of course, I don't believe snuff stories are any truer than my rape stories are true (with a few carefully explained exceptions). Nor do I believe that any type of fiction incites healthy persons to do unhealthy actions, no matter what they are. And yes, everyone is entitled to their hirsute preferences, whether it be crotches, armpits, lips, backs, arms, or tongues for that matter.
My point as 'devil's advocate' was so weirdly interpreted - especially in light of my literary contributions (including bestiality, under-aged homosexual sex, homo- and heterosexual rape, gang rape, humiliation, forced pregnancy, and horror [and that's in just one story]) - that I am afraid I may need to repeat BOBBY's contrite response! And to think what kind of comments and ratings my stories are going to get now? Can you say 'shitstorm'?
For the record, I am not now nor have I ever been in favour of banning anything used or enjoyed in the privacy of someone's home (*including doms and subs). Thus, anything written falls within the category of 'acceptable' to me. I will not enjoy many things written or depicted in images but I simply can't ignore the fact that I cherish my (our) freedoms.
*OK, I am banning myself from this thread for life. BOBBY, would you like some company in an uncontroversial thread like, oh... arson at nuclear power plants?
PS Using SpelChek totally screwed up my carefully typed response. If you see any stray question marks I missed, please assume they are some other type of punctuation. *Damned computerized technology.
LJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis
All right, people, let's try this again:
The person who started this thread -- TWO YEARS AGO -- has long since disappeared from the Forum and has no interest in our opinions. Jinn is not going to stop posting snuff stories to the Library, so why are so many people acting as though this is an actual issue?
There's no real debate, because everyone is on the same side of the issue (even LaJan, if I understand his post; he's seems to be debating a semantic point within Jeanne's post, not disagreeing with her general concept. I'm sure he'll be by to correct me if I got that wrong)...
...the only reason you people show up to post every day is to see how high you can raise my blood pressure...
Re. Bobby Shepherd & The Moog.
You are both absolutely right. And i'm speaking on behalf of the
Sexperimental Farm Laboratory, where, quite rightly, all worn out cows are disposed of, often in ways better than they deserve.
Having spent the last hour trying, unsuccessfully, dig out a story that was about an Ex. hucow who was given the task on Open Day, to be the guide AND meat at the event. The story was not only erotic and i soaked two towels, but in reality, errmm.. i'd turn it down.
Honestly.
xxx
2 Attachment(s)
Ermm.. i really enjoyed these
.... Totally agree,
Snuff stories as with Aliens, ... mmmmm!
Seriously,
Altho' only one of the two stories encl. (As having delved into my best gorey stuff, it's all htm. ) Loved the encl. surely they don't offend any relaxed adult? Or do they?
xxx
About posting snuff stories
I would like to add my two cents to the subject of posting snuff stories on this BDSM Library site.
I have always been of the opinion that ANYONE who does not wish to view published material they regard as offensive always has the option to GO SOMEPLACE ELSE. Snuff does, within the realm of fiction, have a place. By it's most basic definition, it is simply homicide, which has had a place in fiction since the first humans ventured into caves to paint pictures on the walls thereof. As long as there have been stories to tell, some of those stories will involve homicide. If we regard snuff (which, for our purposes here, I will define as homicide in a sexual/erotic environment or situation) as being an improper depiction of human sexuality, then we might also regard depictions of assassinations as improper in political thrillers, or commercial murder in stories about Wall Street intrigue, and as long as there have been "Wild West" there have been masked banditos who rob banks and kill the bank teller. Homicide in the context of erotica is no more associated with real world sexuality than homicide in any other fictional context would be associated with a real life equivalent of that context.
I don't read a whole lot of snuff myself, and have only recently begun to write tales involving it, and then only because I have recently discovered the works of the artist Dolcett, and have developed an interest in the idea of consensual snuff. Most of what I have read concerning snuff, particularly on BDSM Library, is worthless, but I have also read some that is quite compelling and highly erotic. Does this mean that I have an urge to actually put someone in danger of loosing their life during my real life sexual encounters? Not in the slightest! Any sick person who really would want that does not need snuff fiction to put those fantasies into their head, and would likely engage in such behavior whether snuff erotica existed or not. I always make it clear when my stories involve snuff so that a reasonable person can make that choice.. Reasonable people in control of the own mental and physical faculties should be allowed to read any kind of published material they wish. While children should be protected from any exposure to erotica regardless of its context, there is no reason to restrain adult access to erotica or any other form of published material, fictional or otherwise.
Robin
Authors please warn your readers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitman
I support the continued use of the "snuff" category, even though many people seem to confuse its use to depict fantasy fiction with the historical interpretation of the term.
Agreed...now, let's see if we can convince more authors
who write snuff stories to add the code when submitting.
I could rant for ours about how I read a great story only to
have one of the key characters die. I would have liked a warning!
Or for purists, who argue that snuff is only death in a sexual context,
then perhaps we should request another code to be added.
Something like CD for character death.
That should help warn readers who may want to avoid these tales
or prepare themselves.
snuff, should be taken occasionaly
verdana
This is a tricky subject, for me anyway. Like snuff of old, taken as a pinch from a decorative box, should probably be left there most of the time, as sometimes its harsh and not very appealing (enough metaphors.. Ed).
I personally choose to avoid snuff topics mainly because they depress me, becasue not matter how cruel, consenting or forced, nobody should lose their life because of it.
There is a huge difference between gothic and vampyrical stories where someone loses their life from fantastical beings/creatures (pure fantasy) and brutal killings for a sexual thrill set in real life (truly scary, for me :-( ). There maybe cross-overs from pure fantastical thrillers (like Dracula) to modern settings, but they have the fundamental feeling of being fantastical... they would never happen in real life.
The snuff stories i have read here are well beyond that, and may show insights into a mind, some are even sad when read from the first person's view. The ones I don't like, (and don't neccesarily want to get rid of, or temper in any way, and prefer not to read) are unfeeling jumps into minds that are questionable in their motives...
Sorry, i'm warbling on :-) Its made me think about the difference between a loving BDSM relationship, a relationship with violence and torture, a randomn encouter, and snuff. Suppose my wildest thoughts don't go as far as someone being killed, and apart from context, in a BDSM world, i'm not sure i'd want to meet anyone that did...
Sorry for warbling, and hope i haven't upset anyone, its my first post.
:eek:
A snuff story ... Adult Romance Section. (smile)
In 3 parts, because of space....
Here's a snuff story that made me wet, except perhaps the VERY end. (smile)
ADULT only and not my fault if you are repulsed.
Part 1... Date rape.
Kristen had been on some odd dates before, but this one
took the cake. That was the price she accepted for using
that voice-mail dating service she'd seen advertised during
Oprah.
She'd talked to some real losers, and had gone out with the
few that seemed, at the very least, normal. Will turned out
not to be normal at all, though.
Sure, he looked nice enough in a suit and tie, but the hair
had to go, being long and black and just not taken care of
very well. His beard and mustache were unkempt as well.
There were just some things you couldn't tell about someone
over the phone. Kristen had decided to do the dinner and
movie thing, and then double lock her door and call the
police if he didn't drive away within thirty seconds.
The dinner had turned out to be seafood, and expensive
seafood at that. Instead of a movie, though, Will had
wanted to see some book on exhibition at the local museum.
Kristen had gotten a chill when she looked at the book,
standing next to him. Will had gazed at it longingly, as
though, for a moment, he had forgotten she was there.
"What... what is it?" she had asked, feeling oddly cold.
"The Deus ex Lexicon," he had replied, his eyes almost
glowing. "The God in the Book. Archaeologists have only
just located it at a site that used to be completely
underwater, thousands of years ago. It's thought to be a
companion to the Necronomicon, the Book of the Dead."
"Uh... right," Kristen had replied. She was amazed at all
the security around the place... it wasn't as if there were
jewels there, or anything! Still, she was glad enough to
leave.
Will couldn't stop talking about the creepy book, though.
"The Necronomicon," he said, "contained what were
supposedly spells and incantations for summoning beings of
great power. It detailed the worlds beyond, how to reach
them and control them. Some people think that it came from
somewhere beyond this planet and that it was the basic
guide in building earth."
"Uh... right," said Kristen. They were in the parking lot
now, and a light fog was coming in from the ocean. Not
entirely unseasonable for New England, but it added to the
chill.
"However, now, the Deus ex Lexicon," Will continued,
"supposedly describes the procedures for becoming a being
of great power. The spells, the incantations, the lot. It's
very powerful," he said, as they reached his car.
"Supposedly," corrected Kristen, as she sat down in the
passenger's seat.
"Hmmm? Oh, yes, right, it's SUPPOSEDLY very powerful," Will
said. He
patted his pocket, and looked worried. "Uh-oh. My glasses.
Can't drive without them. I must have left them inside. Why
don't you wait here? I'll just dash back and get them."
Kristen looked around the desolate parking lot, in the
dark, with the fog rolling in. "All right," she said. "Be
careful."
"Oh, I will," he said, as he dashed off. Kristen rolled up
the window, shut the door, and locked it. She kept her eyes
wide open, looking around. These doors weren't unlocking
for ANYTHING until Will got back. Maybe even after that. He
was getting kind of spooky...
Minutes later, Will returned, throwing something in the
back seat as he hurriedly got into the car. He was wearing
his glasses.
"Much better," he said, as he started the car. They moved
off very fast, much faster than he'd been driving all
night.
"Whoa!" said Kristen. "What's the hurry?"
"Oh, nothing much, really..." he said, as they pulled
several sharp turns. "It's just that...well, you said you
had to get home kind of early, so you could be into work
early tomorrow."
"Right," said Kristen, glad she'd thrown that into the
plans at the beginning of the evening.
"Well, if it's all right with you, I'd like to show you my
favorite spot. It'll just take a second... it's along the
beach. It would mean a lot to me..." He left it hanging, a
plea.
Kristen bit her lip. Just great. A nice deserted spot of
beach... in the dark, with a fog. Sounded to her like a
recipe for date-rape. But, she'd had a lot of karate in the
past two years, and Will just didn't look all that tough.
Plus, she didn't want to be accusing of him things he
hadn't done. He was a nice enough guy, just a little spooky
and greasy.
"All right," she said, "but only for a minute or two. I
need to get to the office early tomorrow."
"Great!" he said. Kristen studied his face carefully, and
decided she was probably safe. He didn't had the face of a
man who thought he was about to get laid. He had the face
of a man who was glad to be sharing something... special.
Maybe this wouldn't be so bad after all, thought Kristen.
The beach spot was, indeed, desolate. It sat on the side of
the interstate and looked out on dark ocean. With the fog,
and the clouds, it looked almost like the sands themselves
were black, but Kristen knew that was just a trick of the
light, or lack of it. She hoped.
It was scenic though, she had to admit. The tall, craggy
rocks that surrounded the little beach were magnificent
things, and the ocean coming up onto the beach had its
usual soothing effect on her. It smelled to high-heaven of
dead fish, though, she assumed that was normal.
Will took in a deep breath. "Bracing, isn't it?" he said.
Kristen could only nod, trying not to choke. They got out
of the car, and walked towards the beach, when Will turned
around, and kicked the sand.
"Jeez, of all the luck! A flat tire!" he said, heading back
towards the car. Kristen tensed... was this his ploy to get
her in a compromising position, say, bending over the
trunk, or lying on the ground to see where the jack went?
She braced for any suggestion he had, ready to run for the
road. Instead, Will opened his trunk.
"I thought it was handling kind of funny that last mile or
so. This'll take me a few minutes... sorry, Kristen. Don't
wander too far away while I change this, wouldn't want you
to get into any trouble or anything."
As she watched, astonished, he pulled out a jack, a tire-
iron, and a spare, and began to change the tire! If this
were a ruse to put her off her guard, it was a damn tiring
and elaborate one.
"I'll just be by the rocks, then," she said. Will only
nodded as he rolled up his shirt sleeves.
Kristen wandered closer to the water, rounding a big house
size rock and going out of sight of the car. She breathed a
sigh of relief, not too deep, because it still stank like
dead fish. She decided that Will wasn't such a bad guy...
just an unlucky one, and kind of a book geek. Still, she'd
keep trying the date-line, see if maybe one of the guys
from the ad on Oprah was actually available...
She reached that conclusion just before the monster grabbed
her.
The monster was ten feet tall and had tentacles arranged on
its body in ways that Kristen's mind could not comprehend,
and it smelled like dead fish too. Its huge fish-eyes
focused on her, and its slimy body moved on her as its
tentacles grabbed her around the waist.
The very appearance of the thing, the way it defied her
mind to piece together what it actually looked like, dazed
her senses. She passed out, not only from the sight of the
thing, the fear, and the smell of it, but as a defense
against trying to figure out what it was.
*
Kristen awoke flat on her back, unable to move. Whatever
she was lying on, it was an irregular hard surface and it
had sharp points that poked painfully into her back and
buttocks. She opened her eyes and saw that she was tied
down spread-eagled on one of the big flat rocks by the
ocean's edge... one that looked surprisingly like a table.
Will was standing over her, watching intently.
"Will! That thing! What... what's happening?"
Will stood and smiled. He lifted a black book front the
rock she was tied to. "The Necronomicon," he said, his
smile becoming cruel. "It's told me how to summon beings of
power, such as the Shoggoth that caught and bound you."
"The what? Will, what's going on? Get me off of this
fucking rock, now!"
Will shook his head, his eyes never leaving her. "I can't
do that, Kristen." He lifted a second book. "The Deus ex
Lexicon. I stole it from the museum when I went back for my
glasses. It tells me that I need you. I thought I might."
Kristen's senses reeled, but she laid her head back and
took stock of some facts. That book, the Deus ex Lexicon,
had been under some pretty heavy security. If Will had
stolen it that meant that he had some more stuff up his
sleeve than she'd thought. And, well, that HAD been a
goddam monster that grabbed her. Things beyond her ability
to comprehend were happening, and that scared her. A lot.
"What do you need me for, Will? What's happening?
He moved to stand beside her, and he stroked her hair. She
tried to pull her head away from his hand, but he only
moved his hand to follow her.
"I'm going to become a god, Kristen. Like the Lexicon says.
My mind, soul and life force will be in an indestructible
and immortal body of unimaginable power. I will provide the
mind and soul, and I will summon the creature that'll
provide the body. But they are going to be put together...
in your womb, Kristen."
Kristen pulled hard at the ropes on her wrists and ankles -
- they felt slimy, but they were very strong and very
tight. She couldn't budge. And before, she'd just been
worried about a date-rape! This was something else
entirely!
**** /2
An additional 'snuff' story code?
To me it seems clear enough that a story marked with a 'snuff' code is one where death occurs not as a mere plot device, but as a specifically erotic treat for the reader (all stories on this site, after all, are supposed to elicit erotic thrills of some kind or the other). I do not see any confusion with snuff movies (no real death was needed, unless the writer wrote a diary) and the word carries sufficient warning. Where there WOULD be a need for a specific code is in the case where corpses are the target of erotic attention ("necro") as quite a lot of people would feel distinctly ill at ease upon encountering such activities unannounced...
