Is an interest in BDSM a result of abuse in early life, or is abuse just a factor that many in BDSM lifestyles seem to share?
I have noticed that many people, both dominant and submissive, have had occurences of abuse earlier in their lives. Is a person's interest in BDSM the result of the abuse or is the person simply abused and then becomes interested in BDSM regardless of it?
No abuse but I am really hooked.
No. I was never abused ( in any of the possible ways) when I was younger.
Just have deep intense cravings for extremes of sensations, and whilst not a painslut, I'm masochistic and do have high pain threshold (or so I've been told ;) )
I think for me this in direct relation to my getting depression where you don't feel much at all, so I try to make up for it with physical pain, immobilisation with extreme restraint and different sensation play.
I t hink it many cases it does, yes
I have, and continue to have very supportive parents and have not been abused in any way. Granted, I cannot consider myself part of the lifestyle, but I am very interested and aroused by it. From taking introductory psych, I do think, in my un-professional opinion, that there is probably very strong psychological support for sexual "deviance" linked to early experiences. It is not a prerequisite though.
Yes, i think there are perhaps slightly too many people involved in BDSM who have suffered some form of abuse, to say there is no correlation at all.
i don't however think that being involved in BDSM 'continues' the abuse cycle in any negative sense, because in my personal experience, it is in the act of submitting willingly to someone whom you trust and who cares about you that the notion of being a victim fades away and is replaced by something entirely different and powerful.
i am obviously less able to comment on the dominant side of things, although it would seem to me that the reverse is almost true in that the dominant almost harnesses a potentially abusive nature to create something that is, again, entirely different.
i am possibly not making much sense, this is a subject that lies quite close to my heart, but to sum up, yes, i think there is a correlation but i don't think it is one that should be viewed as negative or worrying, quite the opposite in fact.
sl
Well... maybe.
I was a victim of physical abuse but it was because I was already into bdsm. My parents thought that they could literally beat it out of me. It may have intensified my masochistic traits, but it definitelly did not cause them.
It did cause a drop in my self-esteem for a number of years which led to several failed relationships, one of which was physically abusive in nature. Also, my first experinces with self-discipline may have mirrored more the abuse than healthy masochistic fantasy. On that front I could say that the original ordeal led to further abuse but it was not a factor in determinating my submisiveness or my addiction to extreme sensations.
I don't have a history of abuse either, but still I enjoy submitting. What I like most is to be humiliated (verbally, physically, etc.) and kept in strict bondage, so strict I can barely move, or not move at all.
Regards
Most people I have met in lifestyle were not abused before becoming interested in BDSM.
I myself was never abused. I have started fantasizing about power control and submission way before any real stress/trauma ever happened in my life (when I was around 4-5 years old).
For the people that have been abused previously in their lives, this question is primarily for you:
Do you feel your abuse led to a devaluation of your belief systems and started you down the path to BDSM? If not, do you believe that your abuse led to a devaluation of your belief system and, even though it didn't have anythig to do with your becoming involved in BDSM, do you think it has shaping influences on your relationships at this point in your life?
If you feel your abuse did have something to do with your being turned toward a BDSM lifestyle, do you feel that BDSM might be the healthies thing for you to pursue, in terms of relationships? If abuse supposedly skews a person's patterning of relationships and distorts a person's belief systems, then shouldn't abuse victims seek to pursue relationships that don't seem safe and secure to them?
As this topic is phrased as a serious question, I want to add my tuppence worth. I was definitely NOT abused as a child. I could not imagine being in a more loving home. Even today, 25 years after I left home, I view my parents as role models in many, but not all, ways.
(I must add, in retrospect, I wish they'd made me do my homework!)
Actually I personally know more people who say they were abused as children, than are into BDSM! I truly wish it were the other way round.
My parents did not get along well with each other, and there was a lot of tension in our house, before they finally split up when I was in my early teens. But neither was ever abusive to any of their children.Quote:
Originally posted by Aurelius
As this topic is phrased as a serious question, I want to add my tuppence worth. I was definitely NOT abused as a child. I could not imagine being in a more loving home. Even today, 25 years after I left home, I view my parents as role models in many, but not all, ways.
I would find it very interesting to know whether any of our siblings share our impulses, but it's rather hard to ask the question without showing one's own hand, isn't it?
Does anyone know if they have close family relatives with similar inclinations?
Boccaccio
I do. When we were children my sister and I used to tie up and torture Barbie dolls. When she was in her thirties she wrote three or five pretty good swords&sorcery fantasies, all of them with men who were tortured and, usually, raped.
Her femdomme inclinations aside, it's too bad she gave up writing; she had some real talent.
i have a question. what is the definition of the word 'abuse' in the context of this thread?
i was just wondering. because, honestly i dont think i am a victim of abuse. my parents love me terribly and are extremely supportive of me and all that...
but, my dad used to believe in corporal punishment when i was younger. ie. the cane.
i believe this is a very common occurence in asian families especially in the region where i live, i.e parents using physical punishment to teach the kids right from wrong.
so yeah, getting caned when i was younger for bad things that i've done. is this or is this not classified as abuse? to me, no i dont think it is abuse, because its just the way things were. but to others, and to some organisations, i believe, this is considered a form of child abuse.
so yeah, just a thought this thread sparked in my head :)
So how do you feel about the cane being used on you in your D/s scenes? I wonder because my dad used his leather belt for punishment and I find myself craving the $15 belt of a Master more than his $250.00 flogger.Quote:
Originally posted by -angelstar-
but, my dad used to believe in corporal punishment when i was younger. ie. the cane.
I have known many people in BDSM who were abused as kids and it effects the way they scene now. For instance one submissive I met was forced to have anal sex with an uncle. To this day, no matter how deep into sub space she is, if she is touched there she snaps out of it and calls her safe word. She does not believe that the abuse brought her to the life but was in fact the only reason she hesitated as long as she did to get involved. Now she says the abuse and the BDSM scene are 2 seperate things but anything anal is on her list of limits and no-nos.
However, I met a Dom who was molested as a boy. When he was introduced to BDSM he was dead set against it. He said the only reason he would go to D/s clubs with his friend was to help anyone who needed it. He met many submissives who told him they liked being vulnerable and helpless in front of someone and he got involved more because he wanted to protect submissives who so willing put themselves in what could be harm's way. In his case, the abuse was what brought him in. I must say he is wonderful at it too. His ability to take people right to the edge of their comfort zone and never cross the line is unprecedented in my experience. He believes he can sense where the line is because he was taken across it himself. He has never had anyone say their safe word with him but many have told me they love that he can take them as close to it as they fantasized about.
As for me, I used to sneak peeks at my dad's adult magazines when I was a kid. I found the few with people tied up and being spanked more intriguing than the "vanilla" ones. Well, I was raped by a stranger at 16 and shut off my fantasies after that. As time pased and I delt with the rape my fantasies came back but they were a bit darker. I believe I would have gotten involved in BDSM anyway but I also believe the darker side is a resut of the rape.
Karen
Since I do believe my desire to feel the darker side of BDSM is only due to being raped I have wondered if it is healthy. I have at times felt that it was my fault I was raped. I didn't have to walk down that dark street alone and even knew better. The stange thing is, sometimes, when I am being taken to a dark, scary side of BDSM that makes me shiver and cry, I think about the rape. I don't say my safe word. The Dominant has been the one to stop the scene and hold me and tell me I'm safe and that I'm wonderful. It was theraputic to get that scared and then be comforted instead of just left, hurt and feeling really bad. In that sense it is healthy. It may not be healthy that I will let a Dominant take me that far and do nothing to stop it but that's one reason why I only play with experienced Dominants that I have taken the time to get to know.Quote:
Originally posted by BDSM_Tourguide
do you feel that BDSM might be the healthies thing for you to pursue, in terms of relationships?
Karen
I do not believe that corporal punishment as a form of discipline can be considered abuse if:Quote:
Originally posted by angelstar
i have a question. what is the definition of the word 'abuse' in the context of this thread?... ...so yeah, getting caned when i was younger for bad things that i've done. is this or is this not classified as abuse? to me, no i dont think it is abuse, because its just the way things were. but to others, and to some organisations, i believe, this is considered a form of child abuse.
1.-The one being punished understands the nature of her fault.
2.-The one being punished understands that the punishment is a just and deserved consequence of her fault
3.-The punishment is commesurate to the fault and to the one being punished.
In my personal experience, the punishment I suffered did not meet even one of these conditions, so yes, I considered it abuse.
i guess i'm the exact opposite :pQuote:
Originally posted by LostOne
So how do you feel about the cane being used on you in your D/s scenes? I wonder because my dad used his leather belt for punishment and I find myself craving the $15 belt of a Master more than his $250.00 flogger.
although i do fantasize about getting caned. i constantly refuse to allow him to use a cane on me. i guess, perhaps its because i dont like pain. and i know how a cane hurts, hence my refusal.
although he probably spanks me much harder with his hand, i guess, its just a psychological thing.
It's diffcult to define abuse in that sense, certainly legally in the UK that is, caning is classed as assault and the parent could be prosecuted; so in that sense it is 'abuse'. If you choose to see it as the disciplining act of a loving father then I guess it isn't. I suppose it's how you interpretted it that counts the most.
I have certainly never been abused and had a healthy upbringing as far as I can tell. I have met several people who harmed themselves (more of an obsessive behaviour than because it turned them on though) who had been quite seriously abused as children though.
Abuse is a relative term for every individual.
What one person sees as being abusive, might not be seen as being abusive by another person.
Parents might not be abusive, but subsequent experiences might contain an element of abuse which might or might not be distinguished as abusive.
Abuse, for the purpose of this thread is the specific dictionary definition.
Abuse n.
To hurt or injure by maltreatment; ill-use.
To force sexual activity on; rape or molest.
To assail with contemptuous, coarse, or insulting words; revile.
I don't find corporal punishment to be particularly abusive, if it's not excessive. However, before that debate heats up, I must remind people that this thread was not opened for the purpose of debating corporal punishment. I have to ask those that wish to debate that subject to open a thread for that purpose.
Interesting statement. I hope I am not leaving the original topic of the thread with this but I think it fits.Quote:
Originally posted by AndrewBlack
If you choose to see it as the disciplining act of a loving father
I did see my dad's corporal punishments as the act of a loving father. Could that be the reason that BDSM appeals to me?
When I did do something that my parents decided I should be punished for they would not send me to my room or yell or hit me in anger. Instead they would sit me down and discuss the situation with me. Explain to me what I did wrong and why it was wrong and what the punishment would be. Then, after the punishment was given, they would keep me sitting with them till I stopped crying and they were sure I undertood that they still loved me. If the punishment included being grounded then the grounding was only lifted after another discussion and them reaffirming they loved me. Aren't those considered good traits in a Dom/Domme? (Please don't let that statement take anyone off thread. I am not saying that Dom/Dommes are only considered good if they have those traits. I'm merely saying I've never heard anyone say those are "bad" traits for a Dom/Domme to possess).
Anyway, if I have no abuse in my past that could have caused my attraction to BDSM maybe it is the lack of abuse that caused it.
And now onto the question of mental health. Many have wondered if it is healthy to relive abuse through BDSM. Does anyone think it is unhealthy to relive what I see as a positive, loving act of my childhood through BDSM? (If that is in fact what I am doing. I have to think on that some more. Afterall, Tourguide has told us that his posts are often made to make us think. Thank you Tourguide and AndrewBlack for giving me this new way of looking at my BDSM desire.)
Karen
That's a very interesting question. i was abused as a child...my half-brother on several occasions, did things to me that i now realise were sexual assaults. To be honest though, these did not leave any lasting trauma, or so i thought. i think i may have been too young to take them in...but reading this does make me wonder if that is the reason i am so submissive now...
Abuse is abuse, okay. Even if it occurs between consenting parties it's still abuse in the technical sense of the word definition only. But it's only a label definition, opposing the contrasting behaviour that is deemed 'ideal' say, by religious leaders, relationship experts, psychologists etc: to 'not hurt', to not malign,etc.Quote:
Originally posted by BDSM_Tourguide
Abuse, for the purpose of this thread is the specific dictionary definition.
Abuse n.
To hurt or injure by maltreatment; ill-use.
To force sexual activity on; rape or molest.
To assail with contemptuous, coarse, or insulting words; revile.
I once had a female friend, that I had to disengage from due to her self destructive behaviour, and destructive behaviour to other people. She wasn't sexually abused, or mistreated by her parents, however her parents or the dynamics of their relationship, her fathers infidelities and verbal attacks toward her mother, this girls love for her father and loathing of her mother's submissiveness had weird results in that she sought men that were attached or married, if a partner wasn't in the picture, it wasn't a challenge. If the guy dumped her or she pursued the affair, she would annoy the person to the point of verbal abuse, and she kept on coming back for more - masochism? If a man threatened her physically she would goad them on, more masochism. If a hapless girlfriend of the man challenged her, she would get nasty, verbally accost them, spread vile rumours - her sadism? or sadistic streak?..
Abuse doesn't have to be overt, it can be so subtle and can still produce an effect that is palpable. So yes, definitely in some cases, not all, many people that have experienced some level of abuse are attracted to various aspects of behaviour that can be associated with BDSM, even though the person themselves might not label their behaviour.
But I think what differentiates between a preference - that's not based on an abusive past- and one that is based on an abusive past, is a person's altruism. I can't express it, it's not easy to express, but a person that 'needs' something in order to hide certain things of their past, deny them, seeks selfish sexual gratification for their own purpose(it doesn't have to be violent, it can be very subtle, even romantic).. and similar things, has issues they need to work on or acknowledge - especially if abusive tendencies are repetitive. These people usually seek relationships(bdsm etc) that provide repeat performances of their past. BDSM to me is also a state of mind first and foremost before heading into the paraphenalia of it all.
There are many people that are active in bdsm that don't have unresolved issues, however because the lines are blurred, because of the very definition of this type of lifestyle, there will be people with an abusive past, childhood etc, that will be drawn into it and if they haven't resolved their issues they will make life difficult for a partner that is reasonably well adjusted - just like in any relationship, but there is also the potential for them to come across a partner that has issues themselves - the dom or domme that needs that 'fix' - like my previous female friend, she would make a great domme in the sense that some males I've known that fantasise about female domination have been drawn to her, yes it's not healthy as she has issues, but it's something that they don't foresee..
Personally, I've come across abuse, or what can be termed abuse, verbal or behaviour that was dominant in the sense that the person had to make a 'statement' or verify their status, without regard to my feelings in the matter - and not in terms of sex either, but on a personal basis (which is why I can't stomach the 'servitude' aspect)..however I've been able to distinguish that and get right away from it and be able to put my needs first as a person. But this took some time for me to do, because I had to figure out the why's of it all, because I didn't have abusive parents, I didn't have parents in most of my childhood life as they passed away, so I didnt have an abusive father, my mother was relatively independent..but other adults in my life after that point were a weird mix of people, and abuse between them varied from the verbal to the subtle type..
Yes I like the aspect of domination, but not at the cost of my individuality, my needs and my self esteem.
And I think that those that have abusive pasts, in some cases, have lost sight of the importance of self esteem in a relationship and the very fact that although they are part of a relationship, they are still individuals that do have a say in their relationship.
wow, what a very good question. I for one have been in an abusive situation... not by choice. I feel it is a very different scenerio. I was and am still very much interested in the submissive side and to be totally honest, I was before my first marriage (very abusive) but it wasn't concensual... I did not ever agree to be physically and mentally abused by him. There is a difference. Don't know how I can explain it, but theere is a great difference... we should talk sometime...
... anyone gets into an abusive situation by choice.
I, personally, have never met a woman that's said, "Look at that guy. I bet he could crack me over the head really good. I think I'll ask him out."
Abuse, by nature, is non-consensual.
very true..
but usually the seeds of abuse are sown way before
people enter relationships as adults..
and in that case..
they don't even know or differentiate whether
they do have a choice or not..
because they don't know any better.
My father believed in corporal punishment and so I got my fair share of "whippings" while I was younger. It is a very effective method of modifiying behavior. It is effective even now that I am a grown woman. My Master, should I do something deserving of punishment, knows that punishing me with a whipping would be effective. I have a high pain threshold and do get regular spankings/canings but being told I need to be punished for something I've done is what hurts the most...the whipping just reinforces that in my mind and is a reminder to never do whatever it was again.
Now...was I abused as a child? No, I don't believe so. Were the whippings I got as a child part of the reason that I am interested in BDSM today? Possibly so...my early fantasies were more about rape and restraint than whippings/canings though. I know people that were abused as children and I've seen their self-destructive behavior patterns. To my knowledge, nothing I've done has been self-destructive, in fact quite the opposite is true. I am in a loving relationship with a mature man and I am quite happy with all of our activities. We've yet to have any kind or arguement/fight actually. I don't know many other women my age that can say that about their relationships. Usually I hear things like "I hate when he does...." or "I wish he would/wouldn't do....". I've been asked before if I'm lying when I say my Master/boyfriend and I don't argue. It's not the norm nowadays I suppose.
(Sowwy if I got a bit off topic there...)
Does an interest in BDSM indicate a pattern of abuse in earlier life?
Not necessarily. I don't think a lifelong inclination towards bdsm can be explained by a few well deserved beatings as a small child, especially as others similarly treated showed no such interest. But it may be so in some cases.
Is it because we were taught to admire saints and martyrs who suffered terrible tortures, and as small children we were constantly exposed to graphic illustrations of martyrs in churches and religious books? At an impressionable age I was encouraged to believe that sacrifice is good, and we should admire tortured people, but sex is dirty.
With the awakenings of sexuality, after years of single sex education in total isolation from the opposite sex, as an adolescent I found bdsm exciting, and read lots of books that depicted violence and torture, increasingly in a sexual context, but without the opportunity to share my sexual thoughts and feelings, which the culture I grew up in regarded as unclean.
As an adult I have learned from many kinds of experience, and that of others of both sexes, to understand the elements of sexuality and where they come from. I am able to have a sexual relationship that does not involve bdsm, and I would prefer that to coercing a partner into doing things that she doesn't enjoy.
I believe in individual freedom, including the freedom of women to exercise choice in how and when they participate in sexual play. On the way I have acquired knowledge and skills that enable me to participate fully in a bdsm relationship that also respects the woman and her thoughts and feelings.
The wonder of fantasy, though, is the limitless way it opens up new and unexplored avenues in the mind, enhancing both pleasure and mutual understanding.
perhaps.
Abuse to innocents is an abhorrent crime and should be pounished most harshly, drawn and 1/4ing would be my decision.
Having said that allow the tables to turn for a moment, the victim is ignorant of why the abuse is occurring and what is sought by the abuser. The victim is almost irresitably drawn to a desire to placate/please the abuser and although ignorant of the term, enters into a kind of psuedo sub space where pain/pleasure are mixed and mingled to the point where all that is craved is the stimulation, there is no difference between pain and pleasure. This is the formula for the creation of a painslut by the way but that is another topic. There are many facets to what constitutes a submissive but for the purposes of your inquiry only two matter
1. the desire to please, deeply ingrained in every submissive, when coupled with a harsh background and deep rooted memories of failing to liove up to expectations the Dominant can tap a near limitless well of controlling excercises. One of my earliest subs was a formner straight A student who had flunked out of college and needed to be 'punished' for her failure. BDSM as therapy :)
2. the desire to NOT be responsible. This is a theme that runs the entirety of the bdsm spectrum but to painfully simplify it, when a sub is tied or Dominated she surrenders all responisbility and thus achieves total freedom, a return to the helplessness of childhood perhaps or merely a device to surrender all sources of stress, I have met both types, the female lawyer who kneels so as to have absoultely no thought except to accept and serve and the insecure sub who doesn't want to have to decide what to do.
the issue of abuse victims who might become DOM so as to perpetuate abuse also exists, however the BDSM community is very well regulated by tiself and such 'monsters' are quickly detected and dealt with, usually permanently.