Approval of others, do you defend your lifestyle?

My dad made a comment today about "those sick s&m people." It's the first time he's ever said anything disparaging about BDSM, and honestly, while I assumed he didn't want to know the details of my sex life, I always assumed he respected people's rights to different lifestyles. He's generally very open and understanding. I almost defended "those sick s&m" people, but then I didn't. I don't want to give away the details of my relationship, because I know he doesn't want to hear it. At the same time, I don't want to let the comment slide, because he's a psychologist, and his opinion on this will have an effect on his clients.

Has anyone had a similar experience? Any advice on what I should say or do?

Thanks!

i wish i could tell you hun...but my parents freaked when i lived with a guy without being married..lol..i could not even begin to imagine what they would say about my choice in lifestlye. *shuddering at the thought*

aw man! a psychologist and he made a comment like that? personally I'd probably look up scientific articles on the subject to show them to him but like, discreetly... maybe a 'I thought about your outburst the other day and I thought a psychologist wouldn't have been so close minded without a reason..." or something like that. wiki has good articles ^_^ I hope everything works out for you because this is probably really infuriating for you inside!

Well, sure we live in a world where there are still many prejudices against certain forms of sexual expression, but I'm rather surprised that your father, as an educated man and a psychologist, would think that BDSM is a mental illness.

I, too, assume that my dad doesn't want to know the details of my sex life either, regardless of my sexual leanings or practices and that suits me just fine because I most certainly don't want to know about his! I mean, my dad rolling around ... Oh no ...*shudders* it's just to gross to think about..*gg*

And I think it's unlikely to have an effect on his clients but it's may certainly have an effect on his clientele.

Hey, does your dear o' dad also think that maturbation will make you go blind?

Oh dear! A Psychologist amking a comment like that? I'm surprised! :dont:

Seriously, though, there are a lot of things that people do in their lives that I maybe don't like or don't agree with - but I will always respect their right to lead their lives as they wish. And just as they have a right to their lifestyles, I also have a right to mine.

Does it really matter to anybody else what consenting adults get up to? They're consenting, they're old enough to know what they're doing and, more importantly, they're not harming anybody else. It's a shame that many folks out there in 'Vanilla Land' think that BDSM is just about being tied up and flogged.

I'm not what you would call a 'lifestyle' player in the BDSM game (is that the right word?), but most of my friends know what I like. I've always been open about things, often making them into a joke, so many people don't even have an idea that it really is my 'thing'. As I've been telling them for years, "I may be a perv, but I'm a harmless perv!"

Don't ever forget that it's your life and you have a right to live it as you wish. People may have advice for you. Listen to the advice, but always make up your own mind.

It's just my own opinion on the subject... :)

Oww! Tough one, I really don't think you can bring it up in an easy way without more or less giving away your own bdsm leanings - he'd feel suspicion or jump to it if you tried to argue your case with some force. YUnless the opportunity really falls into your lap or he says something similar again, I'd say leave it, sorry.
It does aggravate it that he's a psychologist, but some psychologist do have this heavily biased opinion of the s&m thing - Sheldon Bach for instance (a clinical professor of psychology at New York University and supervising analyst at the New York Freudian Society) asserted that S&M is an addiction where people will feel a compulsive need to be "anally abused or crawl on their knees and lick a boot or a penis or who knows what else. The problem," he continues, "is that they can't love. They are searching for love, and S & M is the only way they can try to find it because they are locked into sadomasochistic interactions they had with a parent" That's as stubbornly put as the religious convictions of a Fundamentalist Christian, and highly insulting to boot.

I know this is a hard choice, but if you bring the matter up without feeling that it comes unforced, you may both end up feeling very uncomfortable, you feeling that you've let down your guard and exposed your sex life to your dad and he just won't understand any of it. Which would leave a permanet scar, maybe a feeling too that this is always hanging between you: is she/is she not/does he...?

Just like Alex I don't think his ideas will make a big difference to his clients in the long run. In any talk relation/treatment with a psychologist it would take a long time before opening up about your s&m leanings and most people, even if they are feeling at a low ebb, will recognize blatant uninformed preconceptions and simple bashings about their lifestyle when they hear it.

What to say or do?

With a situation such as this, you're going to
have to be the one to make that call and
ask yourself what's more important to you
on a personal level.

Expressing your true feelings and views held
on this thing called the BDSM lifestyle or simply
preserving your own right to privacy and keeping
your opinions to yourself.

I have no idea how long you've been in the
BDSM lifestyle but if this gives you reason to take
pause than as the saying goes, "you aint' seen nothing
yet."

Hell, I've been doing my own thing as far as the
terminology goes within this personal life choice and
I've yet to understand most of what takes place when
it comes to "people" in general.

In my view, it's too often like BDSM being this massive
river and you have these campers pitching tents on
all sides of it. Everyone has come there to drink but
far too often this river that has drawn them together
for a common purpose (to slake their thirst) has in
essence separated them all the further.

Why do I say this?
I'm glad you asked. LOL

You speak to some folks and they will say that
their way is how things should be done, if you don't
do this or subscribe to their train of thought, you're
simply doing it all wrong.

Now I don't say this is the case with all individuals so
don't everyone get your clamps and whips in a tangle.

From what I've seen over many years within this great
journey we partake of, we too damn often can't find
some happy medium and let everyone do their own thing
without casting down feelings of even further isolation
that some grapple with on a regular basis.

It's pretty plain and simple a sad thing indeed!!!

Over time when faced with situations like this I
preach about tolerance for others and maybe taking
a step back to set ego and emotion aside and give
a bit of understanding when it can do the most good
for those who seek it most.

There you go, pretty much all there is to it but
as Sisyphus was condemed to keeping rolling that
rock uphill; we probably won't ever truly eliminate
or resolve issues such as this as long as we deal
with the human element and all the baggage that
comes along with it.

Do your own thing, hold you head up high, no fear,
no shame in embracing what works for you.
The only other advice being, remember how you felt
when faced with something like this and work toward
making others feel less that way.

My husband and I are currently in marriage counseling. Of course my BDSM interests came up and the counselor clearly stated that my interest in that is considered a "mental disease" and even stated what the clinical term for it was. I can't remember the clinical term at the moment but will search later and see if I can find it. (Love you guys but would REALLY rather not ask the counselor again and bring THAT entire discussion back up... :rolleyes: )

So... not sure how to approach Dear Old Dad... but it is, from my understanding, taught as a mental illness. Which I find is truly ironic since most who go to counseling are there to "find themselves" or "better themselves" and how is that possible if you are being told that what you feel is wrong for whatever societal contrived reason.

It depends on the therapist, I presume. I'm at number four or five by now, and she is pretty damn great. When the whole BDSM came up it wasn't a big deal and she didn't treat it as such. She said that as long as I was happy with it I shouldn't worry too much about it -- but she also asked me to have a closer look at some of my issues that can be easily compensated and are actually wished for in BDSM...anyway, I don't want to bore you with the deep, dark abyss that is my soul, the point I'm trying to make is: What we do is outside the norms and outside the conventions of the society we live in. What is normal is usually considered as sane and healthy, although I think one could argue that point. Does that make those BDSM people sick? I don't think so. But I also think that such a statement is easily and thoughtlessly made, too.

We all have needs. Some needs are more common, others are more complex. Personally I don't worry too much about what is sane and what is not -- as long as it works for everyone involved I see no problem with it. I'm sorry...I didn't want to go on a tangent, but oops :)

I think you're definitely on the safe side when you say something like "Everybody should be able to choose their lifestyle, and they shouldn't be discriminated for it". I know sure as hell I wouldn't want to tell my dad about my sex-life, and frankly I don't think that it concerns anybody but me and my respective partner. But if you're bothered by his comment, I'd tell him and make it a more general call for tolerance.

I don't know if it helps any, but I was in a similar situation a while ago. It wasn't these sick s&m people but "those fetishists" and not uttered by my dad, but by an acquaintance of mine. I smiled and said, "Well, I don't think it's that bad...I have a fetish or two of my own. Don't you?" Funny thing with sex is that all people -- vanilla or not -- apparently want to come across as adventurous. And hell, we all have our fetishes...but I digress again. Thing is that when you treat it is normal, people around you usually will do the same -- that's my philosophy at least.

Anyway, just my two cents! Hope you can filter out something useful from my ramblings :)

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Originally Posted by just_annie

My husband and I are currently in marriage counseling. Of course my BDSM interests came up and the counselor clearly stated that my interest in that is considered a "mental disease" and even stated what the clinical term for it was. I can't remember the clinical term at the moment but will search later...

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Maybe "algolagnia", is that it? It's a hoary old term dating back to old man Krafft-Ebing I think, meaning, literally "love of pain" and it covers both sadism and masochism

Hope your family life works out, Annie, and that you'll find the strength to do what feels right. I certainly wouldn't want to tell a marriage counselor (or a lawyer) about my masochist side.

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Originally Posted by gagged_Louise

Maybe "algolagnia", is that it? It's a hoary old term dating back to old man Krafft-Ebing I think, meaning, literally "love of pain" and it covers both sadism and masochism

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That isn't the term he used. I actually can't find it. (Or remember it well enough to find it may be the issue at hand!)

The only thing I have found so far is this, for what it's worth.

Thanks for the link - and yay for frotteurism (the textbook case is "he touched my dick in an indecent way in the sports hall shower..") :D

In Krafft-Ebings old book on Sexual psychopathology (kind of the Old Testament of sex medical research, way before the Kinsey report) most of the descriptions and names of acts are in Latin, to restrict the readership to doctors...

I'm coming at this from a slightly different angle. Growing up, I heard all the bigotted comments about gays and lesbians (my Dad is career military). When I recognized my sexual orientation, I felt compelled to come out to my family. I did this to stop the comments and to educate them that, yes they do know a lesbian.

As I further learned what makes me tick sexually, I was again faced with their comments (why is it the that the only float that makes the news from the Gay Pride Parades is the S&M one?). I again felt that, for my own self respect, that I had to defend my desires.

Building on what Polaris said in an earlier post, people make the disparaging comments about things when they don't know any better. Your father may feel free to speak as he does, because the only BDSM people he's seen have been patients or case studies. That's a limited pool to infer knowledge from. Making him aware of someone who is a well integrated person and involved in the community will be to his benefit. There is the famous phrase by Ernest van den Haag, a psychotherapist: "I am reminded of a colleague who reiterated "all my homosexual patients are quite sick" - to which I finally replied "so are all my heterosexual patients.""

Despite how much help to him and his patients it might be, your coming out as a submissive (or Dominant or masochist, etc) is a strictly personal decision. You've got to weigh all the potential consequences against the benefits. I wish you all the best in whatever you decide.

Damn coming out more than once would, put blunty, suck.

Well I would simply remind him that most sick people are not into the bdsm comminity I would dare say that most of the real sickos re not

Just a side point.

I've always heard people have fetishes OR bdsm related desires b/c of abuse.

That its the brains way of coping.. turning something negative into something enjoyable..

If it helps a person get by and function.. then why is it wrong? Why does a person have to face something so painful in the eye and deal head on with something that could be left hidden in the back of their mind?

-shrug-

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Originally Posted by wingsofanangel

Just a side point.

I've always heard people have fetishes OR bdsm related desires b/c of abuse.

That its the brains way of coping.. turning something negative into something enjoyable..

If it helps a person get by and function.. then why is it wrong? Why does a person have to face something so painful in the eye and deal head on with something that could be left hidden in the back of their mind?

-shrug-

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Wings honey.........no.......our desires for kink do not always come from abuse......a good deal of us......just like it.......lol

and yes.....i have plenty of those places hiding in my mind, but that is not why i love this lifestyle. Im not saying that it is not a coping method either, if that is what is working for someone then great......i just wanted to say that many of us just love what and who we are....we are not a product of abuse.....Hugs

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Originally Posted by wingsofanangel

I've always heard people have fetishes OR bdsm related desires b/c of abuse.

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Is that true or just what "they" say? i havent been involved in the community long enough to know. Personally, i couldnt have had a more "normal" childhood...loving family, went to church, good grades, the whole bit...absolutely no abuse whatsoever. But i do like the kink!!

Okay, so people in this lifestyle form a community of support. It's because of this sweeping generalization that we're stamped with based on the select few that give us a "bad name." Before people begin pointing the finger at just who among us is truly sick, perhaps they should questions the sorts of sexual activities they themselves enjoy and/or fantasize about. If they are truthful with themselves, this would be a non-issue.

Newby...

If you look at different psychology sources, a large percentage do claim that interest in this lifestyle is due to abuse. Personally I don't think abuse has anything to do with my decision to enjoy a D/s relationship. I have heard it all... "you want a father figure since you were raised by only a mom," "there was sexual abuse in your family and this is your way of coping," etc. Actually, the sexual abuse never really happened to me (thank you, Mom!) and I am a stronger person and feel I am better able to submit because of the hidden strength my mom always had to have as a single parent. That fact also helped me to take the steps to move forward in learning about D/s, etc. and not just keep it tucked away as a "forbidden" item and keeping myself miserable.

So... long winded way of saying... that is what "they" believe... but what they "believe", what they "know" and what is "reality" (my reality) are completely different things!

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Originally Posted by thrall

Wings honey.........no.......our desires for kink do not always come from abuse......a good deal of us......just like it.......lol

and yes.....i have plenty of those places hiding in my mind, but that is not why i love this lifestyle. Im not saying that it is not a coping method either, if that is what is working for someone then great......i just wanted to say that many of us just love what and who we are....we are not a product of abuse.....Hugs

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Oh I know that for sure. I was just saying thats what people try to say lots of times. and even if it were true... whats so wrong with it? yanno?

I understand wings

really strange but I have had to defend this lifestyle a few times to my friends and another person and most of them just find me more interesting afterwards lol.
I think I managed to change their minds to be more open to other views on things and how they do things.
Although now for some reason I seem to be the person those people comes to when they have sex questions or wish to spice up things..... cant say that is what I wanted out of it.. but I can cope :p

I was abused by an uncle when I was younger. How terribly cliché.

What angers me most about it is not knowing if I enjoy this lifestyle by choice, or is it really simply because of that abuse. Were I to tell my family about my interests I have to assume they would blame it all on the abuse and just hate themselves more for allowing it to happen.

Sweetie. I don't think it matters. If this is something you enjoy. And you are able to do it without those memories creeping up and hurting you.. then do it.

Over analyzing will prob. just bring about stress and confusion.

You are not hurting anyone by indulging in what you want. If it works for you. so be it.

Keep in mind, not all that long ago homosexuality was considered a mental illness, psychologists would try to "treat" it. Today this is becoming more and more acceptable, so to will BDSM I'm sure.

yeah they might claim its from abuse i was never abused so why am i a sadist? HMMMmm cause i fucking like it,and besides with the modren day psychobabble they claim everything is abuse you were loved too much not enough ect talking about my problems will not solve them now hmmm facing them and taking action will

I had spanking fantasies with Capt. Kirk when I was 11 and I was never abused sexually or otherwise, but I so enjoy BDSM.
I was rather lazy and was pretty much left alone and never had too many chores ( I was the 3rd girl...lol) but I live to serve my Master.
As Popeye said " I yam what I yam". For whatever reason we are all here, the bottom line can be paraphrased from another very old TV show," Y" ?because I LIKE IT"! Nuff said. ~blizz~

Popeye was truly one of the great minds of the 20th century.

Captain Kirk had his moments too :cool:

I was not abused in a manner which caused to to like BDSM.
I like the look of a bound woman. I like to hear her moans as her pleasure rises. I like her whimpers of submission mixed with pleasure.
I like to see how strong she is when she shows me what she can take ...
<weg>
So many reasons to like BDSM.

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Originally Posted by Wolfscout

I was not abused in a manner which caused to to like BDSM.
I like the look of a bound woman. I like to hear her moans as her pleasure rises. I like her whimpers of submission mixed with pleasure.
I like to see how strong she is when she shows me what she can take ...
<weg>
So many reasons to like BDSM.

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I was not abused at all as a child or as an adult.
I like the feeling of being bound. And I love the feeling of submitting - the loss of ego for myself.
And as I take more as he pleases, I feel both extremely vulnerable and strong. And proud to be his so completely at that moment. Let's not forget proud. :)
Yes, lots of reasons to like it.

And I don't defend my choice in this to others, because I don't talk about it with anyone outside the lifestyle. And my everyday friends are sooooo vanilla, BDSM never comes up in our conversations anyway. They can barely talk about sex or their relationships in general, except to piss and moan about their husbands. It's sad, actually.

Thank you all for the thoughtful responses. It's amazing how well thought out everyone's opinions on this forum are.

I feel better about my decision to let the comment slide. Like some people said, I don't want to enter the uncomfortable territory of oversharing with my dad. Also, while I'm imagining a scenario where some BDSMer with horrible self esteem confides his/her desires to my dad and is met with a horrible reaction, that scenario is unlikely to happen, and even if it does it is unlikely my dad will be the last therapist that poor person sees.

If he mentions it again, though, I think I will take the advice I've read here and say something general in defense of alternate lifestyles. If he argues with me it will give me an opening to send him some information, something we do a lot post argument, without raising too many alarms.

Questions! Why think that you need to defend what you are? Would your parents even dream of justifying the fact that (one assumes) your father does NOT keep your mother naked and in chains and whip her to orgasm every weekend? Probably not!

Would you even contemplate persuading your father to start stripping & whipping your mother? I very much doubt it because we both know you’d be wasting your time. How they are is just how they are and that’s that!

The point is, they don’t defend their way of life because they don’t feel they do anything that needs defending. You just need to get your head in the same place about your own lifestyle.

Once you start trying to defend who and what you are, people assume you have doubts and, if they disapprove of what you do, they will go for it in the belief that, if they pile on enough pressure, your doubts will grow and you’ll change and become what they want you to be.

Give them no hope whatsoever, on the other hand and … Well, it may take a while but I have noticed that objectors tend to become acceptors eventually, once they realise they don’t have a hope in hell of winning!

Just be yourself, in other words! I’m not saying go rub their noses in it because then they’ll assume your lifestyle to be some sort of childish rebellion. I am merely suggesting that you simply living your life how you want to live it with quiet confidence is a far more potent weapon against bigotry than arguing.

You just can’t argue people out of beliefs they were never argued into. They just carry on believing the truth to be what they want it to be — or, in this case, more likely what some scandal-sheet newspaper has decided is the ‘sick truth about S&M’ just so that can up their circulation with a little kinky soft-porn without upsetting the puritans. (Trust me on that last part. I’m an ex-journalist!)

An example? Before my alpha got shipped back to the US, I also had a beta and, this being South London, our social life as a family centred around our local pub.

Picture the scene! Grubby, working-class boozer packed with labourers and local villains? Long-haired arty-type enters with two women in tow; both decades younger than me and both with slave-collars padlocked around their pretty necks? Mutterings of “sick bastard” and “probably Satanists here for the churchyard”?

Eventually, somebody asked me to my face. I just laughed and said: “No, we’re not Satanists! They’re my two slaves. We’re just having a few beers on our way back from the supermarket.”

And that was that. I turned from “sick bastard” to “lucky bastard” and we were accepted as just another part of the community. All because I and mine just carried on being Us as if it was the most normal thing in the world — which, of course, for us, it was!

I am also a parent, by the way, so I can see this from their side.

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Originally Posted by TomStraye

Picture the scene! Grubby, working-class boozer packed with labourers and local villains? Long-haired arty-type enters with two women in tow; both decades younger than me and both with slave-collars padlocked around their pretty necks? Mutterings of “sick bastard” and “probably Satanists here for the churchyard”?

Eventually, somebody asked me to my face. I just laughed and said: “No, we’re not Satanists! They’re my two slaves. We’re just having a few beers on our way back from the supermarket.”

And that was that. I turned from “sick bastard” to “lucky bastard” and we were accepted as just another part of the community. All because I and mine just carried on being Us as if it was the most normal thing in the world — which, of course, for us, it was!

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ohhh i'd forgotten about the satanists theory !*L* ohhh that was funny *grin*. You were supposed to be Our high priest i think were'nt You?*L*.. their little imaginations were running wild.. the details they came up with...

i like the wild speculations about Your penis too. i've heard them talking amongst themselves- apparently they think You must tuck it in Your sock *LOL*. talk about imagination *L**wink**kiss*

really though, He's right, it did work pretty well. We did keep on getting the odd comment , especially when someone new came along who wasnt used to Us but after a while We just became part of the local scenery.

uh.. i think that might have drifted off the point a little but somethings up with the power here so im shutting down.. bye *smile*

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Originally Posted by Naomisagoodgirl

My dad made a comment today about "those sick s&m people." It's the first time he's ever said anything disparaging about BDSM, and honestly, while I assumed he didn't want to know the details of my sex life, I always assumed he respected people's rights to different lifestyles. He's generally very open and understanding. I almost defended "those sick s&m" people, but then I didn't. I don't want to give away the details of my relationship, because I know he doesn't want to hear it. At the same time, I don't want to let the comment slide, because he's a psychologist, and his opinion on this will have an effect on his clients.

Has anyone had a similar experience? Any advice on what I should say or do?

Thanks!

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anyways, as i was saying before the electricity so rudely interupted *smile*...

i have been in conversation with people who have said similar things to me or around me, although in ignorance of my state as a slave. i believe i simply innocently asked questions.. like "oh? why are they sick?". it seemed like another person not automatically being in agreement took them back and made them think...and mostly they havent had an answer. well, beyond "well... you know...".. to which i replied.."ohh?" expectantly. it seems like they always shut up, though that wasnt really my intention. i was rather hoping they'd answer... both out of curiosity to know their reasoning and also to get to the root of it and maybe help them understand. i dont usually directly out myself to people without reason as im not into being persecuted but instead i just discuss it as a knowledgeable person who supports other people's rights to enjoy what they like with other consenting adults who want the same thing. which is perfectly true- i do feel that way and not just about stuff im into. my own lifestyle choices are none of their concern unless i choose to share it with them (unless Owner's around so i can rely on His wishes instead of my own judgement).

in general i dont worry about what other people think of my chossen life. first, it was my life to give in service to my Owner and i made that choice freely with no pressure. second, my enslavement to my Owner has been so healthy for me that i cant imagine anyone who truely understood and wished me well could disaprove in fairness. if they disaprove it seems to me to be a direct result of misunderstanding/lack of knowledge/ and/or prejudice... and their prejudices and lack of understanding arent my problem *shrugsmile*. if they ask to be instructed i'll do my best to help but otherwise... well it's just not anything to worry about that i can see.

though it would be harder to take from someone i loved and looked up to and i feel for you on that ....

I think Tufty put it very nicely when he said: "Does it really matter to anybody else what consenting adults get up to? They're consenting, they're old enough to know what they're doing and, more importantly, they're not harming anybody else. It's a shame that many folks out there in 'Vanilla Land' think that BDSM is just about being tied up and flogged."

As for myself:
The friends I am really close to were already with me before I discovered my likings. So for them, I as a person am important, not what I do in bed. They don´t ask me for many personal details - but if they want to know more about the lifestyle, they come to me with their questions *lol*

My mother first freaked out when I told her about my likings (in a general way; mainly implying I am into pain). Her main issue was "what did I do wrong with you that you developed such a taste". It took me ages to assure her she did nothing "wrong", and that from my point of view it has to do nothing at all with her.
When I first got together with my husband, she also freaked, for 2 reasons: 1. She did not like the fact that somebody hurts me / was not sure in which way this differs from genuine abuse.
2. She was very scared he would do permanent damage to me, as she says I do have more than enough scars already (I have to admit she does have a point there).
Well, we have been together for 9 years now, and now she is comfortable with it (knowing that I am not really the sort of person who would put up with abuse for long; and seeing that he did not maim me so far *rotfl*).

As for work: It is known that I am into the lifestyle, but as I also make very clear I am not interested in any man except my husband, it is not really a big thing. While I refuse to go into much detail about myself, I did already point some colleagues to good reference sites on the Internet when they asked me questions. *laughs*

Moreover, it might have helped that the lifestyle has been pulled through all Media here, so it became kind of trendy *yuck*. Ahem. :-)

Basically, I keep my nose out of other people´s bedroom, and expect the same in return.
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... So, and now I read the whole thread thoroughly, and must admit that the message I was trying to get across was already perfectly stated by Tom Straye and alpha...

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Originally Posted by Arria

Basically, I keep my nose out of other people´s bedroom, and expect the same in return.

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I couldn’t agree more, Arria. If only the rest of humanity was as sensible. Sadly, most of it seems to have redefined the word ‘freedom’ to mean the freedom to be just like everybody else — or else!

It’s hard to believe now but, when I first started in the life, here in England, I risked imprisonment for doing what I do for submissives. Moreover, the fact that I acted with their consent only made matters worse because, by consenting, they were deemed to be my accomplices and risked being prosecuted themselves!

Insane? Yep! But it gets worse. At that time, while my caning an adult female with her consent made me a criminal, it was perfectly legal for an adult teacher to cane the crap out of unwilling little boys & girls.

My point is, prejudices have nothing to do with logic. For the most part, they seem to be based on some sort of herd instinct, twisted by ignorance and fear.

That’s why I won’t defend my lifestyle. I will not be ruled by cattle. If they want the truth, however, I am happy to give it and, in my experience, once they see that there is no threat, the problem evaporates!

PS: I only just saw your last comment *blush*. Thank you, Arria. You do me too much honour. I would have shut up if I'd seen it sooner but as I've already typed this ...

PPS:I also just noticed that my alpha got in first. *L* Damn International Time Zones! One thing she forgot to mention, however, is that giving people the truth can have surprising results. puddle used to be alpha's church-going, vanilla housemate, you see. she asked. I explained and now look at her! :)

Hello, All.

Wonderful discussion. I think, though, that those unfamiliar with the lifestyle having less-than-sparkling views on BDSM are getting a bad rap. Educated, forward thinking, liberal minded folks & ignorant, old-fashioned, conservative people alike can only base their opinions on what limited information they have experienced. It’s how the human brain works - we have a cognitive framework that allows us to organize, say, people into certain spots in our memory so that we will know how to react to them one we meet up with them again. So, if the only information they have ever heard about BDSM involves serial killers, child-murderers, underground sex-slavery, misogyny, abuse, & (non-consensual) torture, then they are bound to have a certain distaste. I would call those people “sick” myself.

The difference, however, is that I know that not ALL lifestylers are like that…I have experiences with & knowledge of a community made up of all types of people. As of yet, I haven’t seen any positive portrayals of BDSM outside of our own very closed off community. If you watch any widely publicized story, show, article, etc. involving any kind of BDSM, it’s depicted as something dark, sinister, deviant, & dangerous. Part of this, IMO, is because the media is all about selling the story. Sensationalism is the order of the day. (Come on - if they depicted a typical lifestyler’s days, it would be intolerably boring - & WOULD NOT SELL!) The other part - when looking at people who we (as a society) fear - killers, rapists, etc. - we will inherently look for something the “explains” why they are the way they are….Put these two factors together & you have those ignorant of what BDSM really means believing that someone’s interest in the lifestyle is the root of their evil actions. Thus, “those sick S&M people.”

I can’t blame them. & I am no more surprised at a psychologist believing this than a “lowly” working-class laborer...Whether or not some view you as more open-minded based on how many degrees you hold or how you earn your paycheck, it’s more equitable to realize that your socio-economic class or level of education will not prohibit you from holding prejudices based on what you have experienced. We’re all human with brains that work the same way…our cognitive frameworks will only change in response to new knowledge and encounters. That being said, on to the family issue…

I was deathly afraid of how they would react. They are all highly educated & intelligent, fairly traditional & relatively conservative, working-class & proud. We are an exceedingly close family (even when it comes to our sex lives), but I was afraid they may not accept what we were choosing. Not sharing somewhat about our lifestyle did not seem an option…especially since we are all building houses within shouting distance on a ranch. So, we had to tell my brother & sister (in-law) - that went smoothly. They may have been a bit surprised, but that soon gave way to open curiosity & hilariously entertaining chats about new things they might try. Sitting down with my mom to explain what was happening (we live 60 feet from them, so it’s not like she wouldn’t become aware) was a little more difficult. She was surprised that what she believed to be our views about feminism would jive with what she perceived would be a D/s lifestyle. After careful clarification on both of those things & assurances on safety measures, she is accepting & supportive. My father has simply added comments about spanking, etc. to his good-natured teasing. We never go into intricate details about what goes on in our respective bedrooms, but addressing some of the open changes in our relationship as we went D/s 24/7, along with a little bit of clarification on what BDSM is (for us, at least), gave them a different perspective on the lifestyle. They know we are successful, happy individuals who are in a loving relationship. This gave them a different experience of what a BDSMer looks like, so they don’t have to associate the lifestyle with heinous crimes or evil people. I guess we can only hope that more people will have the opportunity to become aware of more positive examples of BDSM…

As to the abuse perspective, I don’t buy it. Despite the high correlation of BDSMers also having been abuse victims, numbers show that just as many victims are NOT interested in the lifestyle. Abuse is unfortunately very common, but I don’t think it’s an “excuse” for being into BDSM. I was molested as a child by a neighbor girl for years, raped as a teen, & had a boyfriend force sex without respect to my reluctance, but I am very clear that this is not the “cause” of my kinks. I was having masochistic fantasies at a very young age - long before I understood what they meant & even before any abuse had occurred. I always volunteered to be the “captive” when playing cops & robbers - insisting on accuracy, so I HAD to be tied up & tormented. Without knowing what it was all about, I used to masturbate to the idea of being taken, enslaved & humiliated - all before age 10. As I got older, becoming more aware of sex in general, my fantasies became more sexualized & I, obviously, eventually made the connection between my childhood sex-play an my adult needs. The abuse I’ve suffered has nothing to do with my predilections. Reading through this thread & others on the topic, I guess I’m one of the fortunate ones…I no longer need an excuse or explanation for what I am & I don’t need the approval of others. It took me a while to get there, though, so I wish those who are struggling with it the best of luck. It’s a rough path, but very worth doing.

Be Well
SS

SS,

Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts. Before I read your post I really didn't understand where my dad was coming from. Now I see it is probably more than blind, visceral reaction. Given your analysis of how negative opinions of BDSM are formed, it seems all the more important to "come out" to family and friends, so they know that they know and love perfectly well adjusted BDSMers.

It was also encouraging to hear how well your family reacted. I can imagine my family reacting that way, now. Of course, I can imagine other, less pleasant reactions, too.

Naomisagoodgirl -

You’re very welcome. I don’t post much these days, but I felt compelled here. I think you’ve started an excellent discussion that many can relate to, so thank you! ;) Yeah - I think your dad has probably had much the typical experience with images of BDSM, more than likely compounded by encountering a huge number of people who are seeking or believe lifestylers should seek “help” for their “abnormal” desires. I certainly don’t think that everyone should bust out with their most intimate predilections at the Thanksgiving table, LOL. But, speaking for myself here, I can’t imagine trying to conceal that big a part of my life from close loved ones forever. There’s always the possibility that family & friends may react badly, but I think (as many have mentioned before me) that much of that comes from misconceptions about what BDSM is & concern for our safety. I think a lot is dependant on approach, too. I spoke with my mom in a calm, serious, & private way - knowing full well she would tell my dad & he would speak with me if he needed to. I told my bro & sis together when we were all joking, teasing, & fooling around. I specifically didn’t want things to be confrontational or to come off accusatory or “in your face,” & I really wanted them all to feel comfortable asking questions & expressing concerns. Others have made some good suggestions & I’m sure you’ll get more great responses, but YOU know your dad…I’m sure you’ll know when it’s right & when you’re ready. I wish you lots of luck & would love to hear an update if/when you share.

Be Well
SS