trusting vanillas

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03-11-2008
icey

trusting vanillas

how many of you have been able to be straight up and confide in your vanilla friends and family?

i ask because i did and as a result lost all my so-called close friends one of who was a friend for 20 yrs and we went through some real crap as well as some great times together.
not only did it cost me my friend but it also lead to me defending my lifestyle in a courtroom as i was an 'unfit' mother and my children were in 'danger' (they were not aware of our lifestyle we were always extremely cautious) but now everyone we know thinks were unfit.

luckily i still have my children and life is slowly getting back to normal but its taken a long time and a lot of hurt and adjustment to get there!
didnt do my health much good either! both physical and mental.

now Icehawk and i are on our own and i doubt we will ever trust anyone else again.
03-11-2008
crazy_grrluk

the only nilla friends I have told are those who are like me...very open minded. Ive been told that well if that makes u happy cg then good on you lolol. then i have those few who ive told...who are open minded that have asked quesions about it lolol and they are like kewllllllllllll.
My parents and family dont know. I think my father would have a heart attack if he found out!
03-11-2008
Sir_Russell

Funny, I spent a long time hiding the fact from the nilla world due to being a licensed professional. That is one of the few things in my life that I regret. I am who I am and I no longer hide the fact from anyone. I have found that most of my friends went your too laid back to be a Dominant in that lifestyle. Well I am a damn good Dom in my part of the life and I don't believe there are many better then me. I have lectured on the Life, mentored on the Life and yes I don't go out of my way to tell people who I am but I don't ever deny it.

I found each time it came out the folks I worked with change some toward me but other then having to take s few classes in sexual harrassment for work life went on. The truly funny part is that most of the nilla women came with questions and some did all they could to invade my personal space to touch me.

I agree that being the female part is harder since most can't or won't believe that there is anything wonderful in the life for them. Shame, I will take the company of a submissive no matter who over a pushy person every time.
03-11-2008
rora

oh wow. That ..all of that just makes me sad. I am sorry you all feel that way. Sorry you got treated that way.
03-11-2008
lily27

Master's best friend and his wife knows about our lifestyle, and has known about Master's inclinations for years. I am not entirely convinced they understand it though. They think they are kinky because they watch (vanilla) porn and own a couple of vibrators.

But we aren't in their face about it either. They come to our house, and there is no evidence of what we get up to behind closed doors.

I haven't told anyone myself. Oddly enough, I would tell my brother and his wife, if only they weren't related. If I was just a friend to them I think they would be very accepting and understanding, but as my protective older brother I just don't think he could handle it. And that's fine.

But it honestly doesn't bother me that much. I wouldn't feel the need to share details of my vanilla sex life to people, and don't need to share my BDSM one either. Our relationship is still our relationship and we don't hide anything about that... we just keep the private details, private.

I don't expect everyone to understand it either. I live the lifestyle now, and years ago I thought it was extreme, abusive, and involved being kept in a cage all day. It took me YEARS to understand the truth. I wouldn't expect someone never exposed to it to "get it" after a single conversation.
03-11-2008
Silus

only one close member of the family here... It not smart to share with others
03-12-2008
icey

Quote:

Originally Posted by lily27

Master's best friend and his wife knows about our lifestyle, and has known about Master's inclinations for years. I am not entirely convinced they understand it though. They think they are kinky because they watch (vanilla) porn and own a couple of vibrators.
.

lol i know plenty of people like that,'im a spank me wear a blindfold saturday night type' then go all prudish when they learn others are interested in anything different.

the only reason i told my closest friend was because she is an extremely dominant person (she dominated me all the time without never realising it lol)and thought i was in another abusive r/ship when she noticed a few of the little things even though we were always careful to hide things.
i didnt tell her anything about our sex life and she wasnt aware of it until i was dumb enough to tell another supposedly very open minded friend about my site,which she joined and and came on every day without fail for over a year!
i had a few health problems and my x after 19 mths of refusing any contact with his children then came back into their lives as the ''concerned caring daddy'' she told him and my best friend about it knowing full well the trouble it would cause he then joined the site downloaded pics of me involved the local authorities and Icehawk was called abusive violent dangerous shouldnt be near my children and i was a vulnerable unfit mother sick twisted perverted and not responsible as a parent,everyone then immediately dumped us because Icehawk was abusive and controlling (he has never once harmed or threatened me in any way and has always protected me and even saved my life on one occasion) and i didnt 'dump' him like they all told me to do ...

it was a choice between them or him even my parents and sister did the same although i now have contact with them again but under the condition that i visit them and providing they do not come into contact with Icehawk... they will not visit me or support me while he is in my life they wont even come to our wedding ...and all this was caused by my so-called friends and the man who had beat the shit out of me for 10 yrs held knives to my throat in front of my children called them little bastards and abandoned them for almost 2 yrs!!!

and not one of them have ever realised it was my children who have suffered the most.i will never forgive them for that, not ever.

sorry moaning over :mad: im just pissed at it all and feeling a bit fed up.
i hope nobody here ever has the experiences we have had.
03-12-2008
gemmy

*hugs to icey* hunnie it's awful what you've had to go through truly and i'm happy to hear you and Icehawk have weathered it, although at a high cost

i have probably three friends who know what my interests are, i never get into details and have no need or want to share any of my desires with them as i'm sure they have no desire to share their sex life with me either - why would we want to? it's a private thing between two consenting adults and i don't think it needs to be put in anyone's face, nor do i feel the need to justify who i am

i spent a great many years feeling ashamed of the feelings i've always had and the only difference between now and then is i embrace who i am within myself and now look for a different kind of relationship, instead of the abusive ones i used to settle for

the only outward change (or evidence) people have noticed in me is that i don't accept people in general taking advantage of my submissiveness or 'niceness' as most vanilla people see it as - i still help everyone around if i can, but i no longer feel bad if i want to say no and some of the people around me are finding that a little hard to accept *winks*
03-12-2008
Cool Luke's Hand

Quote:

it was a choice between them or him even my parents and sister did the same although i now have contact with them again but under the condition that i visit them and providing they do not come into contact with Icehawk... they will not visit me or support me while he is in my life they wont even come to our wedding ...and all this was caused by my so-called friends and the man who had beat the shit out of me for 10 yrs held knives to my throat in front of my children called them little bastards and abandoned them for almost 2 yrs!!!

Even your parents reacted like this? Jesus, that's just ridiculous! I can understand being offended, but if they're willing to cut you out of their lives on what I can only understand is the say-so of these people who are not you, you should just fucking dump them. Run for the hills and never look back
03-12-2008
tydnchaynz{NSXX}

Hi everyone.

i have to respond to this one, and first of all...i'm very sorry you two had to go through that icey. It's amazing what so called friends can do when they put their minds to it. Unfortunately, i had a very similar experience with a vanilla boyfriend who found some of my pic collections online. Can't even BEGIN to explain the hell he put me through and the things he accused me of. Never good when a man that supposedly *loves* you calls you a "sick, perverted, twisted bitch" in front of your teenage children.

Personally, i have found that people who aren't in the life, don't get the life. My vanilla friends would more easily accept a physically abusive relationship than a safe, sane, and consensual one that involved me being a submissive. Their minds cannot wrap around the fact that the strong-willed, self-reliant, go-getter that they know me as can find peace, pleasure, and enjoyment in the exchange of power in a Dom/sub relationship. Again learned through very painful experiences (and not the good kinda pain).

So i tend to keep my preferences to myself and those that understand me. To me, it's best to be on a need to know basis. In other words, what i need, not everyone needs to know *g*.

Just another opinion.
03-12-2008
cadence

Sorry that you had to have the experiences that you did icey.

In my relationship, I consider myself to be a service submissive. We don't do anything that involves BDSM, and well, we really aren't practicing any D/s. If you ask my boyfriend, he assumes I do things because I like him, he doesn't care to make an effort to understand anything else.
Since I know that I am submissive, I make it work for me within my relationship however I can.
It's hard enough to talk about that here, let alone tell my friends about why I act or do the things I do.

Since my friends label my boyfriend as an asshole, and myself as a doormat, it is near to impossible to explain anything. I don't even bother anymore, I let them get whatever they want to say to me out of thier system and then that is that.

I do have an agressive kinky side and my friends are aware of it. They are just as kinky. None of them are into BDSM though, I pretty well know everything that they do. They love to give details. Still I wouldn't share everything with them, it isn't thier business to know everything.

I am pretty sure that if I was having kinky BDSM sex, I could explain myself and explain the lifestyle to them and they wouldn't have a problem with it.
I even know my own family would understand it as well.
But there are some things that can be divulged and then there are things that should just remain private.
03-12-2008
sisterhoney61 {RW}

I have a couple of friends who know that I'm a collared submissive. But it wasn't until very recently that I "confessed" to my best friend of over 25 years about my lifestyle. I'm not sure exactly why I had not told her before, since she's known just about everything about me and vice versa. I need not have worried about her. I decided that since she supported me and accepted me for everything else I was or had done, that she wouldn't have a problem with my living the BDSM lifestyle. And I was right.
My family, on the other hand, don't know. I really don't have much more of my family left. My mother has seen my collar, but she only sees it as a necklace, and that's what I'm letting her think that it is. My brother and sister-in-law probably haven't noticed it, since they notice so little about me already (bad blood there between us, can you tell?). And to be honest, what I am is none of their business.
03-12-2008
Sir_Russell

can I say that most of you are confusing "friends" with acquaintances. Friends accept you as who you are warts and all whereas acquaintances are really still rating and judging you.

First lesson is don't advertise don't just tell anyone and those that you tell if they can't accept it aren't real friends.
03-12-2008
DowntownAmber

For me, my submission is something to be given to a single person: the man that I'm in a serious and committed relationship with. It's simply not for anyone else, therefore I don't feel any great urge to need to explain it to anyone else.

Now, if I can see someone is genuinely curious about the Lifestyle or is trying to figure it out for themselves, sure, I will chime in with my experiences as I see fit. I am also open about it on forums such as these because, well, everyone is interested in this type of community or we wouldn't be here, now would we?

I look at it this way - I'm Catholic too and that's a personal choice and private form of self-fufillment for me. Some people accept that, some don't understand it, and that's fine. I'll talk about to those that ask or others in my religious community but it's a choice made by me FOR me so does my best friend who happens not to be Catholic need to hear about it? Nah, prolly not. He knows, but it's not his gig so we leave it at that. Same thing with BDSM, he has an idea, but it's not his gig so I don't worry about "confessing" it in any more detail.

Hmmm... I just reread this and have to wonder if this is the first post where Catholicism and BDSM were compared without the mention of a schoolgirl outfit... ;)
03-12-2008
Tojo

You can moan as much as you like icey :)

I've never been in a similar situation, the closest would be when I left my first wife- that was ugly, but thankfully no kids were involved.

As far as telling people goes, my thinking is the more you're into, the harder it'd be for them to understand.

Spending time with other kinky people, we can forget how bizarre this world can seem to others. Besides how can you explain how it feels to dominate or submit to someone?

We have few if any real friends for a different reason. People can't seem to see my wife as a human being- she's either a supermodel that guys drool over & act innapropriately towards, or a 'man stealing bitch' to women.

If not for my online friends, I'd probably move back to the city- it's hard enough trying to find genuine people there, let alone in a little country town.
03-12-2008
gloombunny

All of my friends know I'm into BDSM. A majority of them are into BDSM too, as it happens, even though I only met one or two of them through BDSM-related venues. But even the "vanilla" ones are totally accepting. I haven't told my family, but more because I don't want to talk to them about anything really personal than because I'm afraid of their reactions - I'm pretty sure my mother at least would be ok with it, if not my father.

Reading this thread, I think I haven't been appreciating enough how lucky I am to have friends like mine... it's horrifying to hear what some of you have been put through. :(
03-13-2008
icey

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cool Luke's Hand

Even your parents reacted like this? Jesus, that's just ridiculous! I can understand being offended, but if they're willing to cut you out of their lives on what I can only understand is the say-so of these people who are not you, you should just fucking dump them. Run for the hills and never look back

i was very tempted, but i realised although its very hurtful and very misguided of them they genuinely believed they were doing it out of love and as people have always been used to me doing what they think best i think they assumed i would do as they said and were angry,hurt and confused when for the first time ever i didnt.

i couldnt have cut all ties because my children would have lost their grandparents and vice versa and that would have been cruel.

im glad some of you have been able to trust your friends and have had good experiences with it, you're lucky to have people who care so much for and about you :)
03-13-2008
GS42

Quote:

Originally Posted by icey

i was very tempted, but i realised although its very hurtful and very misguided of them they genuinely believed they were doing it out of love and as people have always been used to me doing what they think best i think they assumed i would do as they said and were angry,hurt and confused when for the first time ever i didnt.

Oh dear Lord be careful of thinking that way.

People rarely do something because they're evil; there's always some reason behind bad behaviour that is not, in itself, bad. But at the same time they are not helping you or looking out for you, whatever they think. Tolerating such behaviour sends intirely the wrong message and confuses the hell out of you - always thinking why people do the things they do instead of seeing the effect it has on you.

You need to be really strong to pull this kind of thinking off. If you're not, make sure you respect your own hurt feelings more than others' intentions. Be careful.
In the end, just love is not enough.

Sorry for the glum warning; I wish you the best of luck. To answer your question, one or two friends knew because she told them, but they never noticed any more than maybe her sitting on the floor at my feet while watching TV. To me it has always been personal, no real need to share.
03-13-2008
Warbaby1943

Icey I have never mentioned to anyone and now never will for sure after reading your story. So sorry for you but hopefully all is on the mend now and you, IH, and everything else in your life can resume at a much happier level then even before you told this vanilla friend.
03-13-2008
TomOfSweden

Quote:

Originally Posted by icey

how many of you have been able to be straight up and confide in your vanilla friends and family?

i ask because i did and as a result lost all my so-called close friends one of who was a friend for 20 yrs and we went through some real crap as well as some great times together.

You didn't lose a friend. A person you thought was your friend was exposed for what they really are. You can't lose something you've never had.

Being honest about who you are to your friends is never risky. You just have to be better at judging the character of people you let inside your trust zone.

All my friends know. Even the ones who aren't kosher with it. They just don't ask. There was a time a long while back when I thought this was some kind of well kept secret. All it needs is to sleep around for a while and then everybody knows... and then people will search you down for sex because they know.

I think the nugget of truth to take from this is that it's never good to share if it isn't welcome. Nobody can demand somebody to be understanding if they don't care. This was obviously so fucking far out for your "friend" that they couldn't handle it. The quicker this person is out of your life the better. But I guess that is already the case.

In my opinion you didn't loose anything from this. You gained valuable knowledge. There is a price to pay for all knowledge.

My 2 cents.
03-15-2008
Logic1

A few of my friends knows and most of them seems to think that it is pretty cool. I guess it is way easier since I am the Dom and not a submissive cause I dont really get the same kind of "judgement" I guess.
All of my exes knows but that is kinda a given considering the things we did together ;).
I am sorry for those of you guys and girls that lost some of your supposedly "friends" to this cause that just plain sucks.
Idiots you can find everywhere but real! friends are very hard to find. I am lucky to have a few that I can trust with my life if needed.
03-16-2008
GearJammer

A lot to take in here. On edit, this will appear to ramble a bit, I hope if you start to read it, you hold on to the end. I tried to tie it together then.

Icey, it's been said, Russell said it most succinctly, that you lost connection with people you called friends who were not friends, in fact. STILL, since you saw them as friends, that hurt, I know (believe me I do), and I'm very sorry you had that kind of pain.

We cannot pick our families. We do pick our friends (and acquaintances). When a "friendship" falls apart like that, it hits us on two levels: first, that our little world of acceptance is fractured, and second, that our own judgement is called into question. I am so glad Icehawk has a history of protecting you, as that gives you a place that is YOUR place, from where you can deal with these losses. Well done, Icehawk.

Part of the rest of what needs be said has been said and I echo it. in summary, it is wrong that you have had to deal with these bullshit accusations and conclusions, but in the end you ARE strong, and you HAVE survived and are looking forward to thriving. You have made responsible choices (preserving your children's ties with their grandparents, for instance) that indicate what a good person and submissive you are, as you put their well being above your personal wants.

Tyd, it appears the same is probably true of you.

The rest of what I see when I see things like this is less personal, more general. If people would merely generate the capability to see life for what it is, instead of having to "box" everything into little boxes, then we would all be better off. I find it interesting, for instance, that some of the fundamental bible people (I speak from some serious knowledge) would tell a wife to be submissive to her husband (and yes, those few individuals mean "that" kind of submission as well as more, although they won't admit it) but then condemn a Dominant/submissive sexual life. Fools and idiots that they are, they have failed to consider principle first and apply it, and have first seen practice instead. Ironically, the "worthlessness" that a visible few of them preach as submission is NOT biblical, and more ironically, what married D/s couples practice consentually IS biblical. I won't preach, but if someone wants details, PM.

Why is that a good example? Why bring it in to this conversation? Because fundamental bible belief is usually seen as the total opposite of the lifestyle, yet the practices and principles of the lifestyle exist within it, and are actually encouraged by it, limited to a monogamous relationship. In short, D/s is everywhere, in varying levels and in varying capacities, and trying to reject it is like trying to reject the nitrogen in the air, and accepting the oxygen. The air (and life) is a package deal, take it all and live, or reject it all and die. It is each person's choice. Let's just be honest about our choice and live well and to hell with the narrow minded "box" thinkers that cannot actually stand on their own two feet.
03-16-2008
rora

Again, I am sorry for what you went through, icy. I have to say this though, because it has really bothered me. Whether vanilla or D/s...people ARE people. You can trust some people. Some you can't...whether D/s OR vanilla. Just because anyone is in the Lifestyle, doesn't make them trust worthy. Just because someone is vanilla, doesn't mean you can't trust them. That is LIFE.
03-16-2008
cadence

rora is correct, after what happened to me at another BDSM forum, in the last year, I doubt I would trust anyone completely ever again.

Regardless as to whether or not they are vanilla or into BDSM they are still people with agendas.
03-16-2008
angelic.zest

Most of my friends know, it could be age or the enviroment around us but they took it in streads and did and said the samething that cg's friends said..."if it makes you happy, do you"...
They have always known im kinky, but maybe not as kinky as most of them know now..but i really do trust my 'nilla friends and i wouldnt be friends with them if i didnt feel i could trust them with the most important things in my life.

But i know for most it can be a problem for, and i feel very badly about that for most who are probably the most caring and loyalest ppl, are shafted because of their life choice.

But i guess it's simular for a person who has a different sexual perfrences, what school they choice, where someone lives, etc.. Ppl are always going to judge but its sad when they do.
03-16-2008
rora

cadence please. First, thank you for backing me up on this one. Second...there ARE good people. Please don't lose your trust completely. People worthy of you will earn it.

I also had something really bad happen to me. In another place on the net. Just happened that it was a Dom. Well a couple in fact, and yes real life Dom's. Boy I suffered real time for that one. I lost all confidence in myself. I mean all of it. I didn't feel like I was good enough for anyone to wipe their feet on. Took me a LONG time to get over that. I still don't talk about it much. I was totally humiliated and not in a good way. I was ashamed of me. I know I was at fault too. But the most important thing is, I still know..there are VERY GOOD people out there, in all walks of life. Please don't give up on them.
03-17-2008
icey

im sorry to hear that rora,and its good that you can trust people still :) i never will though it takes me a long time to trust people who get close to me anyway but now i dont even want to try,

i hope nothing bad happens to you again rora.
thankyou for your kind words everyone xx
03-17-2008
GearJammer

Quote:

Originally Posted by icey

im sorry to hear that rora,and its good that you can trust people still :) i never will though it takes me a long time to trust people who get close to me anyway but now i dont even want to try,

i hope nothing bad happens to you again rora.
thankyou for your kind words everyone xx

Understandable, Icey, and Rora is right, they are out there. One of the best ways to BEGIN to recognize them is that they don't push for your trust.

All the best of luck....

Gear
03-17-2008
Tojo

Quote:

Originally Posted by GearJammer{kuriouspet}

Understandable, Icey, and Rora is right, they are out there. One of the best ways to BEGIN to recognize them is that they don't push for your trust.

All the best of luck....

Gear

Nicely put GJ :)
03-18-2008
jeanne

I've not confided in any vanilla friends and relatives to any large degree. One friend - I kind of hinted at it and she made a weird face so I took that as a sign that this particular topic is off-limits. The only other friend - I simply said that I was discovering my submissive side. Her response? "I can see that in you." Shocked me, I must say. We haven't talked about it since, which is okay. :) That's it for my vanilla revelations...except to my husband of course, who still, after more than a year, has no idea what to do with "submissive me". :(
03-25-2008
boundbyu

Icey I had no idea that England was just as bad as America in judging ppl by what other ppl do and say. it is a wonderful blessing that it worked out for u too and u can go on with your life. U are a strong person. i understand how it would be hard for u to trust anyone agin, but give yourself time and u will get over that hurdle too

best of luck to u
boundbyu