Humiliation vs. Degradation

Humiliation versus degradation
© Dark Whisper from adarkwhisper.com

“Worthless whore, you’re not fit to wear that collar.”

This an example of degradation. A grouping of words taken in context that are designed to tear one down emotionally, and make one feel like they are powerless/stupid/ugly and cannot necessarily think or react on their own. An abusive situation that has no place in BDSM or any relationship. This is completely different than humiliation play.

Humiliation often plays a major part in a D/s situation. Now, before you tell me how wrong I am, please consider the following: “Who’s whore are you, My precious slut?” How many times have you seen or heard these types of words, and felt their power? Does it make a submissive angry? Hurt? Or does it pretty much melt the submissive, or possibly even makes them wild with the need to do just about anything to please the dominant? Can it be a positive statement that engenders excitement and a feeling of power? I know that for me, it surely does.

So why is the first thing said when discussion comes up about humiliation: “Oh, I don’t like humiliation,”? Because there is a huge misunderstanding about what humiliation really is. I found myself explaining the difference the other night when several submissives I know shook their heads and flat out said they hated humiliation and it was a hard limit for them.

“Basically, degradation is used to tear one down... make them feel or look stupid/clumsy/worthless. It’s never a positive thing..

Humiliation on the other hand... can allow one to look waaaay down deep inside.

Things like saying: “what a beautiful cunt you are” or “that’s My little bitch” – doing things that are embarrassing, but making you feel like you’d crawl through broken glass if they asked...

It’s empowering... not engendering powerlessness.

Does that make sense?”

A friendly acquaintance was there, and spoke of the differences in the types of play that includes degradation and humiliation. She often uses degrading words in topping – a stronger form of humiliation “play”. Some people really draw to hearing those terms, because they know the dominant does not really believe that about the submissive. It’s about context, and using it as a tool to strip away the masks and the protective shell to reach the person within. This can be VERY dangerous if it is used indiscriminately, or by one who doesn’t understand what the submissive could be feeling as those masks are stripped away.

I cannot stress the difference strongly enough here. If there is any question in the submissive’s mind that the dominant might really see the submissive as worthless or stupid – it can cause real emotional damage, and should be stopped immediately if it is determined that the submissive is truly feeling the words/activities in a negative manner.

Degradation play (versus humiliation play) is considered a form of edge play, and if it is undertaken, PLEASE make sure that: a) both parties are aware that it is play, and b) that there is a huge amount of trust going on between the top/bottom.

Humiliation play, on the other hand can be such a turn on for both parties, and is used, to some degree, by quite a good percentage of Dominants and submissives. I, personally, enjoy being called nasty names – but ONLY by One I trust enough to know that he really doesn’t believe that about me, but knows that it excites us both. Anyone else dares to call me nasty names is very likely to find themselves either alone, or limping quite badly for the next few days. ~a slow grin spreading over full lips~

I guess the point comes to trust. Do you trust your dominant to the point where you can safely go to these places, because you know, deep inside, that the words are brought about not to hurt, but to excite and perhaps to go a bit deeper into the person inside? If no… then this might not be the type of play for you. ~a soft smile~

Safe travels, dear visitor.

Dark Whisper

Well I'm one of those that is sensitive when it comes to humiliation. But then I've been on the receiving end of real life humiliation and that is not fun at all. To be honest, I don't even like the term humiliation. Frankly, if it were up to me it would be given a new name. Clumsy, but less offensive - "embarrassment play" or something like that.

Even beyond my own personal issues with the term and my experiences with true humiliation, I've found that many dominants don't really know how to use it effectively. I've seen many try to do it right out of the gate with me (and others). Frankly I think that it is poor taste and shows very little sensitivity on the dominant's part. In my opinion, "humiliation" is something that should be explored within the context of a relationship, not just strangers meeting.

I've been addressed as "slut", "whore" and other myriad names by dominants that I've just met. Heh, and they wonder why I don't respond. :rolleyes:

Humiliation doesn't necessarily have anything to do with embarrassment. It can provoke powerful sexual emotions without actually having to be embarrassing.

For instance, one submissive I know fairly well from these forums likes being told what a dirty whore, or what a juicy cunt she is. She doesn't find the words embarrassing at all, but she does find them to be a powerful turn-on when I say them to her.

Humiliation can also be embarrassing, but also still sexually arousing. Having someone masturbate while standing at their open windown, facing the busy street might be embarrassing to some, but it might also provoke that "oh my god what if someone sees me" emotion that others find so attractive in a sexual sense.

Of course being called a slut or a whore by someone you don't know isn't going to do anything for you, because there's no emotional attachment to that person. For many, someone in a BDSM chat calling them a slut would probably be lumped into the same category as getting cat-calls from construction workers as you pass by.

For dominants that know how to use it, and use it without it being or becoming degradation, it can be a great tool to get a submissive in the right frame of mind without a single touch.

Humiliation and humility ARE very different from degradation and name calling. You are right. I hadn't realized that until my current Master refused to call me some of the names I had been called in the past during sexual escapades. Yes, these names DID make me hot but was I humiliated? Did humility have anything to do with it? No. Master taught me the difference. He taught me TRUE humility and humiliation. And, he did it in a very uplifting way. I know, sounds like an oxymoron, uplifting humiliation. But, it's like you said, there is a difference between saying something to cut someone down and saying something that gives someone the self realization of humility.

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Originally Posted by BDSM_Tourguide

For many, someone in a BDSM chat calling them a slut would probably be lumped into the same category as getting cat-calls from construction workers as you pass by.

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LOL! i love that analogy!

i think there is a difference in what TG is talking about and what Pandora is talking about; humilation, when used properly by a good dominant (preferably someone who knows a submissive fairly well) is a fantasic tool, and i speak as someone who has unfortunetly suffered genuine humilation in real life, and it isn't anything like the same thing. i also see however what Pan means when she says that it can be a difficult thing to find one's feet with, for certain types of submissives, i believe this is probably because the very word 'humiliation' has obvious negative connotations...but then again, in most circles, so do 'submit' and 'pain'. The sort of humilation Pandora is referring to though, seems to be random, so-called dominants turning up in chat rooms or whatever and calling any subs in a 2 mile radius a 'slut' or a 'whore' (probably the same types who insist that everyone calls then 'Sir' when one doesn't even know them)...to me, that isn't humilation at all, it's just down right impolite. To be humiliated by someone you trust and whom you have some respect for (very important) is however, totally different, often precisely because you wouldn't 'take it' off anyone and there's a part of you that finds it slightly difficult.

sl

I think that the dominant must know the sub fairly well before doing this. For a stranger to do so would be more than impolite. It could very well be abusive.

Barton.

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Originally Posted by Barton

For a stranger to do so would be more than impolite. It could very well be abusive.

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Oh, i don't agree Barton; i meant that people in chat rooms who go around doing the sort of things to which Pandora refers...which is rude, impolite, disrespectful and just absolutely stupid...but to call it abuse gives both it and those people too much credence. If someone kept doing it to a partner with whom they shared a lot of their life, then yes, that would verge on abuse, but then i guess they wouldn't be strangers either.

sl

Let me see if I can clarify my thoughts a little bit. Or at least my opinions. ;)

Firstly, I do have a sensitive spot for humiliation. It's got a few levels to it. One, the word itself. Humiliation isn't one of those nice words like bondage. :D Also, I do have my own personal issues because of some extended humiliation I suffered at the hands of others.

Lastly, and this is where actually most of my true beef comes from. In my experiences, most dominants that I have met don't really understand it nor how it should be used. Perhaps it is because I am sensitive to it, but I've seen far far too many examples of dominants using it to elevate themselves above the sub and/or put a submissive down.

And not just in chatrooms with the "construction sight cat calls" (and I do love that term by the way. LOL)

I understand what Lucy and TG are talking about. Things like "my precious little slut" etc are fine. Hell, they can even be heartwarming and increase that feeling of belonging. Which is a nice thing. In fact, it can be a very nice thing. :)

But because of my history and the way that I've seen the methods of humiliation be abused, it makes me leery of it.

I guess it is easier for us who are not 24/7 submissives to take humiliation play and/or language. When we are not in our Ds roles, Woodsman treats me as an equal. He tells me I am beautiful and makes me feel like he really loves me, so when we play and he calls me a slut and a whore, I know it is not really what he believes. It seems to me that even a 24/7 submissive needs to hear often from her Master that she is loved and appreciated and that he thinks her sexy and attractive. (or a male sub from a mistress or master)

For us humiliation play is calling me names, making me speak in ways that I would never speak in public, or simply embarrassing play. All those personal social and physical things that I am so uptight about around others he wants me to put aside for him so that I am truly his and I give him all of me. But you are right in that it must happen gradually. It might even take 31 years. :D

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Originally Posted by Pandora's Box

Also, I do have my own personal issues because of some extended humiliation I suffered at the hands of others.

Things like "my precious little slut" etc are fine. Hell, they can even be heartwarming and increase that feeling of belonging. Which is a nice thing. In fact, it can be a very nice thing. :)

But because of my history and the way that I've seen the methods of humiliation be abused, it makes me leery of it.

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I understanbd where you are PandorasBox. My current submissive was in a very abusive relationship before me, and He used words to berate, humiliate and abuse her. When we first started I asked about using certain words, and she asked I not use "cocksucking slut/whore", becuase her past partner had use this to degradate her. I kept my word and only much later when we had established a deep trust did I ask her about using it. Now she loves me using those words because she knows they are used with love and to make her pleasure more intense.

So humiliation is only effective when trust has been established and always through strong two way communication.


SirW

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Originally Posted by Barton

I think that the dominant must know the sub fairly well before doing this. For a stranger to do so would be more than impolite. It could very well be abusive.
Barton.

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I agree with the first statement. The thread interests me because my partner and I actually had a discussion about it. When playing I often call her a bitch...little tramp etc. But the words slut, cunt and whore are off limits. By discussing it openly I found that she is highly sensitive to those words because of a past marriage. I don't think I need to go into detail.

As far as using ANY of these terms with someone I don't know...whether online or in real life...I think that's just plain rude.

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So humiliation is only effective when trust has been established and always through strong two way communication.

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I couldn't agree more. To be very honest, I believe that it isn't so much the words that have the power but the people that are sending and receiving those words and the context in which they are sending and receiving them. If it isn't within a context of understanding based on trust and communication the words may not ever have the desired effect.

To comemorate the opening of a new section at the Dungeon, I am moving this and other threads to the top of the list.

I swore I wouldn't do this, but I just can't let humiliation go by ... I just love it so much :)

You do have to know your sub before you can use humiliation on them. I mean, you have to know which buttons to push, and how hard to push them. I not even going near degradation; it's sub-human thing to do, more in line with torture than anything else.

Humiliation can be such a personal thing; something that one person can just shrug off can be so humiliating for someone else. Forcing someone to do certain things in public can be humiliating for some people, but not for others. Making someone look silly can often be humiliating for some, not others. Just causing someone who is usually tightly in control to lose that control can be very humiliating, even if the person knows they should release control.

Hell, making an adult use a litter box can be real humiliating ...

Fun, Fun, Fun :[

undefined

My sub partner--who is "partner" in every sense of the word--had some very abusive relationships in her history before we met. Having learned of what others put her through made my blood boil with anger. she was shown no respect whatsoever and had been beaten to the point of requiring hospitalization. From what she told me, the beating was all because she refused to be chained nude to a dog run in the back yard and flogged. The names she was called weren't intended to inflame passion but to negate humanity.

That's why it was such a surprise when she whispered to me once that she wanted to be called My slut and My whore or the like. I'd taken great pains (wink) to avoid phrases and actions that would humiliate her; the last thing I wanted was any kind of comparison to someone in her past. The key word in each, though, was "My."

We had a long talk about this, and she told me that she was a little afraid of the reactions she might have upon hearing me say those types of things, but she trusted me to remember love and respect. she said she wanted the freedom to be a whore and a slut without fear of harsh judgment or revulsion. she wanted something kinder to replace her nightmares.

Even she knew during her darkest times that regardless of the words used, there's a huge difference between the concepts humiliation and degradation. Power is given--not taken. she gave herself freedom when she gave Me power. In that, we both found reward.

It's taken some time, patience on both our parts, and even tears, but now My lovely little slut begs to hear that all of her is Mine.

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Originally Posted by Domme

undefined

.. she wanted to be called My slut and My whore or the like..

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My wife has a saying which I adore

"I'm your wife and your whore and I do a damn good job at both"

I don't believe this is off topic, so I'm going to throw it in here:

I'm getting tired of people (mostly authors) on this site mis-using the word 'whore'. If you're not doing it for money, you're not a whore. A slut maybe, but not a whore. :soapbox:

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Originally Posted by Curtis

"I'm getting tired of people (mostly authors) on this site mis-using the word 'whore'." ... :soapbox:

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When quoting the words of another, Curtis, one uses the exact words unless paraphrasing, author or not. And authors have full use of literary license in using the word in their stories. Perhaps posting your objections on the actual story feedback lines would be more appropriate?

Conceptualize its use and ease down from the soapbox, okay? The one here seems a little ricketty.

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Originally Posted by e.b.

Humiliation is an excellent cue for couples that move in and out of D/s and vanilla...a most lovely hint that the fun is just about to start. :D

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Good point, e.b. i never really thought about humiliation being used as a tool in that sense...but, you're right, it is. :)

sl

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Originally Posted by Domme

When quoting the words of another, Curtis, one uses the exact words unless paraphrasing, author or not. And authors have full use of literary license in using the word in their stories. Perhaps posting your objections on the actual story feedback lines would be more appropriate?

Conceptualize its use and ease down from the soapbox, okay? The one here seems a little ricketty.

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Blimey, steady on!

i don't think a soap box can be ricketty when someone's stating something that they personally are sick of, especially if it's based on a statement of fact. (i.e. that slut and whore don't mean the same thing and that it is, on occasion interchanged at will).

Having said that, Curtis - if this seriously bothers you, it may be worth bringing it up in Critics Circle.

sl

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Originally Posted by slavelucy

Having said that, Curtis - if this seriously bothers you, it may be worth bringing it up in Critics Circle.

sl

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...And that was my point, sl. Thanks for clarifying it for me. Opinion is his, of course, just the wrong placement here.

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Originally Posted by Domme

...And that was my point, sl. Thanks for clarifying it for me..

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You're welcome. :)

Sorry, i thought your point was that authors have full use of literary license in using the word whore in their stories, and i was just pointing out that he didn't say anything to the contrary.

If, however, i misunderstood your point but still managed to clear it up, then great!

sl

I'm new to all this and am glad that I found this thread and others like it. I've been doing research for a while and never even considered that there could be a difference between humiliation and degredation. I just thought that one was synonymous with the other and a key element in "play." I've been looking for a dom and in talking to several people, heard the term humiliation used often. Like others in this thread and everywhere else, I've had very negative associations with that term and I definitely know what it means to be humiliated. It's not a fun thing, but since I thought it was a definite must in a relationship, i've been hesitant to tell my prospective dom(s) that it's not much of a turn on and that it makes me uncomfortable. I'm glad to know what humiliation play is now and how very personal it should be and that it shouldn't be used at the very beginning of a relationship. I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who responded to this as it's helped me a lot in learning to set the boundries every sub should have. Great Thread!!

eclipsed

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So why is the first thing said when discussion comes up about humiliation: “Oh, I don’t like humiliation,”? Because there is a huge misunderstanding about what humiliation really is. I found myself explaining the difference the other night when several submissives I know shook their heads and flat out said they hated humiliation and it was a hard limit for them.

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Well, I've just been reading Pandykin's postings, and now I think, it's quite possible, the 'misunderstanding' might not always stem from the submissives. If he, or she, says, "No, I'm not into humiliation," there's every chance that's exactly what they mean. They just simply don't like that form of sexual play for some reason. It has little to do with trust and understanding. It's more about individual limits and, most important of all, respecting those limits in order to gain trust.

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Originally Posted by Dslave

No. Master taught me the difference. He taught me TRUE humility and humiliation. And, he did it in a very uplifting way. I know, sounds like an oxymoron, uplifting humiliation.

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No, this doesn't sound like an oxymoron at all. I feel that erotic humility and humiliation play is about being released from a sense of pride and prudishness that all too often bridles and restricts us. I think that's possibly why many subs express having a feeling of 'release' and 'liberation', a by submitting. It's, perhaps, that temporary loss of our own self worth and inhibitions that enable us to enjoy the experience a whole lot more. So, yes, I think 'uplifting humiliation' is a good way of saying it.

At times I myself get confused because the dehumanization and degradation turns me on more than the humiliation such as being a puppy for my dom at the time or for him to have me as an object to dehumanize me as such. I seperate it from humiliation. Sometimes it gets confusing trying to explain that to people...when they ask what I am into at times its hard to explain the differences....then when I saw I enjoy Dehumanization or degradation, they are like but isn't that the point of no return? To me its not because someone can be a puppy...and still have the same kind of relationship with the one that they serve. It confuses me to explain myself because there are some things about humiliation I enjoy but the dehumanization intrigues me more,oaky I will stop before I confuse myself with my thoughts,lol;)

it clarified a few things. What i was witness to was degradation and this frightened me deeply;dehuminization...to which i had no understanding; and humiliation to where i felt inner yearnings.

“Who’s whore are you, My precious slut?”
“what a beautiful cunt you are” or “that’s My little bitch”

Golly Mister, no one's ever talked to me like that before :eek:. Sure wouldn't mind it though....mmmm, sounds so yummy...;)

Yes my Master calls me a slut , wench , cunt and whore as he feels he wishes. :) But he also tells me how much he loves me, thinks i'm pretty and how much he likes how i think. ;) We have been together for almost a year with 3 months being full time. He knows how wet i get when he calls me those names but when he has gotten what he wishes ( the responce her was looking for ) he goes back and shows me the love he has for me. :p

*bump*

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Originally Posted by BDSM_Tourguide

Humiliation versus degradation
© Dark Whisper from adarkwhisper.com

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If there is any question in the submissive’s mind that the dominant might really see the submissive as worthless or stupid – it can cause real emotional damage, and should be stopped immediately if it is determined that the submissive is truly feeling the words/activities in a negative manner.

Degradation play (versus humiliation play) is considered a form of edge play, and if it is undertaken, PLEASE make sure that: a) both parties are aware that it is play, and b) that there is a huge amount of trust going on between the top/bottom.

Humiliation play, on the other hand can be such a turn on for both parties, and is used, to some degree, by quite a good percentage of Dominants and submissives. I, personally, enjoy being called nasty names – but ONLY by One I trust enough to know that he really doesn’t believe that about me, but knows that it excites us both. Anyone else dares to call me nasty names is very likely to find themselves either alone, or limping quite badly for the next few days.

Dark Whisper
snip

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I'm highlighting the paragraphs from the Dark Whisper article that I find especially on point. Trust is the key.

Thank you so much for bumping this thread, Alex. It has a lot of opinions and answers and information that I was looking for in my thread about humiliation.

I have never thought of name-calling (by him) humiliating, I find it a serious turn-on; I suppose it is humiliating, though; I was simply mixing up the meaning of it with degradation. I have some limits - cunt is a no-no - but I would never, ever accept anything that implied that I was worthless or unloved - I know he desires me and finds me beautiful and wants to be with me.

I do find other forms of humiliation difficult - exhibitionism is a mental turn-on, but I just can't do it - there are other places where I know I'm close to going - some serious grovelling would be really nice - but he has to take me there; and thinking of limits, it's also a question of the dom's limits: I don't think he would like to see me grovel. He would find that distasteful.

He is taking me to some other places that I find hard - but I do not find degrading. One of the reasons I don't find things degrading is because I know he doesn't intend me to be degraded. So I can (gradually) accept and open myself more to some other forms of play that I find deeply humiliating - and I know he finds an intense turn-on. I am also absolutely positive that once I've managed to let go, I too will find it an intense rush.

Still interested in other feedback in my thread, folks; thanks.

Just got to get there...

Are restrictions on eye contact, forms of address (i.e. "don't call me Master unless you're going to treat me like one"), etc considered humiliation?

I really enjoy getting called names, exhibitionism, and even humiliation play I consider somewhat more "hardcore." However, in our relationship the restrictions mentioned in the previous paragraph are serious punishments, not any kind of play.