Whats it for?

What is an SM scene for?
For me the aim of the game is to stimulate myself and my "slave". I've always thought a poor master would be one that ignores his submissive! Talk in other posts has suggested that "breaking the skin" might be way beyond the pale but surely if you know what your sub "wants", their limits, then anything goes?
She should reach her limits and be stimulated at the same time, shouldn't she?
Isn't a scene about sex to most people? I want to make my sub come so many times during our meeting that she begs me to stop so she can have a break! I'll do whatever is required to achieve this. My pleasure is causing her pleasure - the pain along the way serves to stimulate her to a much higher level than she would normally achieve. It also feeds my cruel nature. I become a double winner - my cruelty is satisfied and I have great sex !!! What more could you want ?

"The greatest enemy of good sex is selfishness" - Count Dracula.

Although, some people have different "levels" at which they want their SM play, or their BDSM lives, to attain.

I know a couple, although I don't necessarily agree with them, that do not involve their m/s or SM play in the bedroom at all. Period. I, myself, do not subscribe to this theory. I prefer to inflict some pain, puch limits as I see fit and have some great sex afterwards.

For some people, it's all about the power. The feeling of yippee-ness they get by "forcing" someone to do something "against their will." This doesn't work so well for me. I can do it, but I usually wind up feeling guilty fot if afterwards, because my partner is left unsatisfied.

Others are complete limit-pushers. They want to see how far things can be taken before the submissive begs for the scene to stop. This is the type of person I would like to become. Before a lengthy and unwilling seperation from my submissive, I was working toward that goal constantly. Unfortunately, we have suffered some setbacks since then and are looking to get back on track.

Lastly, there are the "true" sadists and masochists. The people that really, really enjoy pain and can give it and take it in huge degrees. Admirable, yes, but probably not for me and my partner. There seems to be a great gravitation to this particular area of SM. A submissive of mine that I talk to frequently online is a pain slut. The more she is whipped, the better she likes it. Hey, if it works for her, who am I to complain, right?

I like to think I push some limits, am satisfying to my partner, but also not lacking in discipline. If I'm not, then this is the person I want to become.

Although I agree with most of your overview theres one thing I really have to disagree with !!!!! "Great sex afterwards" - no way !! Great sex all the way through the session!!!! Orgasm central for her especially !!!!!
I agree that a lot of it is about power. The "power" one has when another person gives themselves to you is amazing. The degree of trust on their part is intoxicating.
The one aspect you missed out on is humiliation. Some people find this very arousing as do I but my "perfect toy" doesn't react well to this. Being as I have her interests and "lubrication" in mind I'd never push her into this area. Anyway why would I need too when I get the "yippee-ness" factor from her total submission to me *smile*

Well, speaking as BDSM Tourguides r/l submissive/wife, I can agree to what he is saying, and not just becuase I am his submissive, or have a biased opinion.

I like the sex to be afterwards, after the SM scene. I see the "great sex" afterwards to be a reward of sorts, for both of us. The SM scene gets us all worked up and then the sex afterwards releases the tension (for lack of a better word). Don't get me wrong, we have a little sex play during the SM scene, but we don't get to climax until the scene is over and the sex begins.

Maybe we are strange in that respect, but I don't feel that a SM scene HAS to be about sexual gratification. Sometimes, I like the SM scene just for what it is, sex exluded. It makes me feel more submissive, like he has the power. I have a lot of limits, and he does push them, which I am fine with, but he would never abuse that power over me (Not that I am saying that you would) I just feel that if we have a SM scene and there is no sex, I don't fret about it. I take it more as a training session, to see how far I can go and how mcuh I can take. And like BDSM Tourguide said, we had a long time apart, so I have become sort of a wimp *lol* I am trying to regain what I was but it is a long road. Thankfully he's the patient kind. :)

... will only get you undressed faster. :)

What sort of humiliation?
From previous discussions in the forums on the subject, it would seem everyone has very different ideas about what is and isn't humiliating.
my Master may ask me to do something i consider terribly humiliating, which to Him may not seem so, and on other occasions, may subject me to something in order to humiliate me, only to find i'm not at all embarrassed...the latter hasn't actually happened...but i live in hope:D


nikki

Thats a very interesting answer!
What could your master make you do that you'd find terribly humiliating? And consequently what does he make you do that he thinks you'll find terribly humiliating but that you don't?
You've got me fascinated!!!
Humiliation generally revolves around exposure to others or being coerced into doing something that you would not normally do. For example some people hate masturbating, in some way, in front of another so for them being made to do it would be humiliating. Others have problems with nudity so forcing someone to strip naked in front of others would be humilaiting to them. Theres lots of examples.
Probably my favourite is forcing a girl to masturbate to orgasm in front of someone - especially if they don't like that someone or it is a relative stranger.
I must ask do you find humilaition in itself arousing? *quivers with anticipation*

I couldn't honestly say what i would or wouldn't find humiliating, so many factors influence it, the situation, the people present, my mood on the day....Your "favourite" would probably do the trick:o i would find that pretty challenging...

The thing that really 'does it' for me, is pleasing my Master, so if He wished to humiliate me, i would be greatly aroused by the fact i was pleasing Him, but, no, i don't deliberately put myself in situations to achieve humiliation, so i guess that means its not something that, in itself, i enjoy.


nikki

... don't have to be public things, nor do they even have to be physical acts. You can verbally humiliate someone and they probably won't even realize you are doing it. Hell, you probably won't even realize you're doing it.

Anytime you call your girl a slut, that is humiliation. Anytime you deny her clothing or make her ask to take a bathroom break, that is humiliation, BUT it is also discipline by giving out privileges. (See "Rose Takes a Day Off" for further) Telling a girl what a stupid piece of shit she is is humiliating, yes, but it is not humiliation, it is degradation and should be avoided at all costs. It does nothing for your submissive but make her feel like shit.

Humiliation is supposed to make a girl feel more submissive and more open to you. It is also used primarily to remind her that she is lower than you and what her position in your relationship is exactly.

Hmmm well, I hate to do this, but I will have to publicly disagree with my own Master.

I don't think that being a submissive makes you "lower" that if you are a dominant. That would be like saying that you are lower because you;re black, or whatever you have. It takes a lot to be a submissive which certainly does not constitute one as being lower or lesser.

That would be like saying that because he or she is submissive, that their feeling and opinions don't matter as much. Granted, yes, the dominants have the final say, but that doesn't mean that the submissive wants or needs should be any less significant.

I don't know if that is how you meant it or not, though, it is just the way that i preceived it.

As for humiliation, I am not really big on it, but then again, not much really bothers me. I can take things like golden showers in stride. And standing in the corner? Well I know a lot of submissives that would find that most humiliating, but not me. It would be the same thing as my parents trying to stick me in the corner when I was a kid. It had little or no effect. With an imagination like I've got... well I can amuse myself quite well and kill the time(no comment from the peanut gallery).

However, take away my clothing, and I am embarassed. I don't like it, probably because I don't like the way I look, being a girl off ample charms, so to speak. And denying me bathroom breaks...well that's just plain old dangerous right now *lol* Especially with being pregnant.

Nice reply Fantasy,

I gasped at the lower comment, I find that being Masters slave is complimentary, not lower than.

Though I find myself constantly aware that we are a D/s couple, and see so many references to only SM and BDSM, and do not know if it is semantics, or if there are actual philosophy differences involved.

On Humiliation...
like nikki, making my Master happy is my ultimate goal.

Initially his requirement of what I wear ( *lol* OK what I don't wear) how I eat, being caged/chained, crawling. All seemed like the most difficult internal struggles. His approach is so dominant yet caring, insistent and firm, yet patient with some magic way of making me want to overcome the internal struggles and embrace what he requires caused me to reconsider what felt humiliating.

It seems as I write this I am failing to grasp what is meant in discussing humiliation. *blushes and bites bottom lip*:o

If any one prefers to private message me then to reply here please feel free.

I like this thread, it has me thinking about several aspects.

*goes off to get another cup of coffee*

veru skjava :)

... retracts the "lower than" wording of that statement. It didn't come out at all like I wanted it to.

Well what an interesting slip there Tourguide ? Think you may have to offer your throat for a little while to get out of that one!!!!! *chuckles*
No - my submissive is certainly not of a lower order than myself. In fact I worship her for her courage in enduring whatever I wish her to do. It's taken me some time to actually understand the sacrifice she's made in giving herself to me. I feel honoured that she wishes to please me and has pldeged her loyalty to me.
Humiliation works for me but not for her. It adds "spice" to any situation (my stories are full of it - well I think they are? lol) but not for her....so far. She's admitted she'll do anything I ask of her so sooner or later we will travel someway down the humiliation pathway together - if only to show her what it feels like. We've gently approached its edge several times but not yet gone there.

Veru and Nikki - glad to see you realise that one of the most important functions for you is to please your respective masters. Give them my best wishes *smiles*

"Is it as big as a football" - Marquis de Sade

i think that Tourguide was referring more to the chain of command, rather than suggesting that a Master is of more worth than a slave

As for realising that one of my most important functions is pleasing my Master, i would be inclined to say it is my only function, well, the only one that matters, anyway;)

That you had to retract your statement, Master, I was simply just clarifying what you meant. You know me, "Queen Sheba of having one's head up one;s ass" but I also felt that I needed to comment on the issue as a problem I have encountered with former dominants. Needless to say, I didn't stick around very long once I found out how they really felt. (You know which one I mean)

As for knowing or not knowing what my "purpose" is, I know very well what it is but it actually fullfilling that purpose that I find difficult. Don't get me wrong, it's not that I am not submissive, though I knwo I come across strong and abrassive sometimes, but that is the way I was brought up. I was taught to repect those that have shown me they are worthy of respect (not just mine, anyones) but also not lie down and take shit from anyone.

I was brought up a hard headed smartass and after 26 years of that, it's a hard chain to break. You see, I grew up in a house hold with a brother where, if I gave and inch, he's take the whole damn planet. As soon as I showed a sign of "weakness" he was all over me, beating me to a pulp. He doesn't do that anymore thankfully.

I guess what I am trying to say is that, yes the submissive is there, but when you have grown up, born and bred, a stubborn, hard headed, smartass (and yes Master, I am actually admitting it :) ) it is hard to let the other out, especially when the people who taught you to be unsubmissive are the ones that are second to most prominent in your life.

And again with humiliation, to be honst, I don't care either way. I eman It's not my favorite thing in the world, but it's not something I loathe either. I guess I am kinda sitting on the fence on this one.

To be honest I can't think of anything humiliating as long as at least one person would enjoy it.

I'm not sure if it makes sense, but that is how I feel :)

This makes perfect sense to me. It might be that a request initially sounds embarrassing or humiliating, but that feeling is always superceeded by by the satisfaction of doing what is asked, and giving pleasure through accomplishing a task well.

myself, i should probably take heed of what i've just said....:o

nikki

*nodding* I also need to take heed nikki...

When I met my Master some things in discussion bothered me big big time.

I had been conversing with other dominants who did not present the same "interests" with the appeal he did. Though initially I struggled internally with the idea or meeting these interests, later my need to please him, and surrender deeper into submission to his dominance over rode that internal struggle.

For numerous reasons the idea of being called a slut made me stop breathing for a second, and "pull back."

Eventually I heard myself say the word....

The satisfaction of overcoming that obstacle was a tremendous rush...

Now if I can just remember that;)

veru skjava

with relief.......i am glad it isn't just me then :o

found myself nodding frantically at my screen reading your comments, veru

it gets easier, i guess?

nikki

*smiles* at nikki

Oh yes when realizing that you are pleasing your Master, especially when he does not expect it, what was humiliating to think of becomes very erotic...

veru skjava

A very good humiliation scene that I came across from this story "Second Place", was this sub forced to stand facing the wall while she is naked (or was it half-naked) while others walk in and out of the office while she stood there.

In fact, I very much enjoyed this story (rather long) it is one of the finest e.g. of humiliation based type story. Exceptionally well written. Likewise, one of our writer, Dana Williams also did one or two masterpiece that truly express the humiliation idea in her work, in fact, it's Dana who brought me into web site.

Our situation may be a little different than some peoples, because we are isolated in our own world. We have not been involved with anyone else in our scenes, it's just the 2 of us. (So I guess we're in the closet, right? And gonna stay there.)
Do you find it humiliating to be 'pushed' in front of people that don't know you? For example, sometimes we'll go shopping for something to wear. Since we are both female, we can obviously both go into the changing rooms together. That's where I can push her limits a bit; when she's partially undressed, I can make her go a bit further, remove a few more articles of clothing than really necesary, or arouse her with my hands and mouth - all with the threat of exposure at any time. Although she is embarrassed as hell, she can't resist the promise of sexual fulfillment, even though she knows it will never happen in that location. Then to have to walk around with wet panties, smelling of sex ... I rarely let her change out of them when they are wet, although when I do, it's only if she has completely undressed first.
Having some kind of sexual foreplay, or the complete act where we could be caught is a huge turn-on for me, but extremely humiliating for her. And there are so many places that fit the bill!
Sometimes it's as easy as making her go without a bra. She isn't so big that this is a bad thing, but if you add a textured fabric shirt, which rubs against her nipples all day - you get the idea.
So, what does humiliate you, subs?

Quote:

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Originally posted by write4jetc
Our situation may be a little different than some peoples, because we are isolated in our own world. We have not been involved with anyone else in our scenes, it's just the 2 of us. (So I guess we're in the closet, right? And gonna stay there.)
Do you find it humiliating to be 'pushed' in front of people that don't know you? For example, sometimes we'll go shopping for something to wear. Since we are both female, we can obviously both go into the changing rooms together. That's where I can push her limits a bit; when she's partially undressed, I can make her go a bit further, remove a few more articles of clothing than really necesary, or arouse her with my hands and mouth - all with the threat of exposure at any time. Although she is embarrassed as hell, she can't resist the promise of sexual fulfillment, even though she knows it will never happen in that location. Then to have to walk around with wet panties, smelling of sex ... I rarely let her change out of them when they are wet, although when I do, it's only if she has completely undressed first.
Having some kind of sexual foreplay, or the complete act where we could be caught is a huge turn-on for me, but extremely humiliating for her. And there are so many places that fit the bill!
Sometimes it's as easy as making her go without a bra. She isn't so big that this is a bad thing, but if you add a textured fabric shirt, which rubs against her nipples all day - you get the idea.
So, what does humiliate you, subs?

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Pardon me for a moment while I get a napkin to wipe off my drool. That sounds delightful. Unfortunately, we aren't really able to do that too much. We live in a very small town where everyone knows everyone and, more importantly, everyone knows her parents.

I like verbal humiliations more than anything, I think. Telling her what a slut she is while we're having sex and that sort of thing. There's another thread around here on humiliation, but I don't feel like looking it up right now.

If given the opportunity, I would like to try out some of the things you do, though. Although, going in the girl's dressing room for me is a no-no. Maybe I could borrow you and/or your brain for a little while sometime?

without knowing your sub, it's a bit hard to know exactly which buttons would make her feel humiliated. Reading her posts, I would think that taking control away from her would be a difficult thing to do, since she describes herself as a 'stubborn hard headed smartass'. It would depend on one main thing - is her wish to be submissive to you greater than her need not to be 'found out', especially by her family? If so, you have a hold over her there that can be slowly made more prominent.
Don't get me wrong - there are many things we do that do not involve any kind of humiliation, but when we started experimenting with our dom/sub sides a few years ago, it was hard to remind her that she was the one who started this. Neither of us had ever been with a woman before; it snuck up on us! She was very used to being decisive and in control, and since I had worked for her for a while, that carried over into our friendship. It wasn't until I left my job to become self-employed that we began to move into a new pattern, and her fear of public exposure was a tool for me to use.
There are other means of public humiliation that you can use. One of the ones I use on her: In one of her pairs of pants (trousers), I opened up the lining of the pocket. It's such a handy way to quickly get my hand on her pussy. If we're in an elevator, or an empty hallway, taking a walk in a secluded area of a park, or even in a big crowd of people, where you can rub up against her back. <sighes and drifts off into a daydream> Where was I?
Oh yeah. Anywhere that you can stand close behind her, without it being too obvious, you can slide your hand into the open pocket, and around to her pussy. It should be easier for you, because it wouldn't be odd for a woman to be sitting or standing in front of a man, leaning back on his chest. If she is wearing a long tunic top with a slit in the side, someone would have to look really closely to see where your hand is. So, go find yourself a slow, unoccupied elevator, stand behind her, and go to it! You never know when the door might open onto watching eyes ...

Want more? I got a million ideas! As you may have noticed, I am a risk taker ... she is not!

As of yet, she has no idea I'm even talking about this sort of thing. I doubt she will be terribly amused to find out I am. Not that it matters, she has to do as I ask anyway. Lovely thing about being on my side of the relationship.

Simply put, I am less worried about my family finding out then the rest of the town.

What you have to understand about hwere we live, which my Master, fortunately, hasn't had the displeasure of seeing as of yet, is that this town is very prejudiced when it comes to people being "different"

And example, if I may. When I was in high school, I had a best friend from Equador who's mother was a lesbian and even had a live in girlfriend. My friend was ridiculed, beat up, and even by her teachers, ignored. They figured that because her mother was a lesbian, so was she, and because I hung around them, I was a lesbian too...almost as if it were some disease that could be caught. Eventually they were run out of town. No one would give them jobs. They had no choice.

So, knowing my town, and I can recount many such stories, many of them recent, people "finding out" would be bad. I would probably lose my job, and my parents and my brother's family would be affected as well.

I withold my life from people, not out of humiliation (because I don't get embarrassed or humiliated easily) but I do it out of repsect and concern for my family. To do these things with out regard for their safety would be reckless and selfish and I refuse to do that. I will not risk damage their reputation for my own "pleasure"

Now this may seem a little far fetched or perhaps in the dark ages, but I know my town and I know the people. While I think my family might be tolerant of my choices, there are many that would not be. So I keep my business private, and it anyone held the threat of public exposure over me, well I would have a serious lack of trust for that person and would be hesitant to do anything submissive. ..especially if there person involved already knew of the conditions and the workings of the place.

On the other hand, in a city where no one knew me, I would more than likely be a little more willing.

Yep, I can really understand where you are coming from. I keep my two lives very separate, well, except that my sub is also my best friend, accepted by all my in-laws, as 'such a nice woman'. Ha! If they only knew she was such a 'bad girl' :) I'm sure their vanilla minds would fracture into a thousand pieces, and we'd both be left out in the cold.
I have no family left of my own, but if they are 'looking down on me from above', I know that they understand why I do what I do. They sure wouldn't have when they were alive!

I didn't realize how small a town you were in; I grew up in a place like that, and I am very glad not to be there anymore. However, I didn't start on my second life until about 8 years back; I was such a meek-and-mild mouse. Now I'm having the time of my life. Of course, it helps that The Spankee and I are very similar in appearance; when we travel together, people assume we are sisters. Makes it so much easier to share a room! Since she is older than me, and about 6 - 7" taller than me, everyone assumes she is the 'older sister', and they all talk to her. It amuses me no end to know how wrong they are! If she seems to be helping to re-inforce that notion, I get the privilege of 'tanning her backside' in return. Unlike you, she is a bit of a painslut. Did I say 'a bit'? I still haven't reached her limits, but I'm in no rush to get there. She'll wait.

I see now that you have no issue with humiliation at all. I understand you not wanting to hurt? harm? your family with your chosen lifestyle; it is a moral situation that you have taken a stand on. Congratulations ( I'm not into wimpy subs, just obedient ones) .

Well, I am not what one would concsider wimpy. Though I may sometimes come across as unsubmissive, which, if one trly knew me, would realize that it just isn't so.

Actualy, BDSM Tourguide and I had a discussion on our way to lunch about it. I told him that it gets to me sometimes that people consider me unsubmissive because of the way I come across.

Basically, I believe that if you have something to say, then say it. Don't beat around the bush, say what you mean and mean what you say. I don't pull punches when it comes to my opinions. It's the way I was taught. You don't cow down to people just because your opinions differ from someone else's and, in this case, regarless is they are another submissive or dominant.

I am submissive, but I am submissive to one person only right now, and that is the person's collar which I wear. Granted, if we had another dominant training me, not nessisarily to collar, but to get as much perspective as possible, then yes, I would be submissive to that person as well. That is actually another subject we touched on today. The possiblity of having another dominant to help train me, particularly a femal one. Not because he is incapable, but I find that female dominats tend to have a different approach and I figure we could both benefit from her. She may have ideas and ways of doing things that neither of us had thought of before. But, like I said, we talked about it and it is a long way from actually happening.

As for humliation... well I will not say that I can't be humliated, just that no one has found anything to actually do it yet. I am kind of strange that way. I don't get jealous despite my Master has taken on other submissives beside myself and I don't get humliated. Most things I can just shrug off. I have been degraded, yes, which I don't find so bad as it may sound, but I don't get truly, red in the face, humliated.

No, I don't think anyone would call you wimpy, thank god, or we wouldn't be having these conversations.
I really mentioned that because I have just finished reading some threads on another forum. Gods, they were so sickly sweet they made my teeth ache!

"My Master has my best interests at heart all the time, He is great, He is wonderful, i kiss his feet. i cried so hard when he was mad at me, i almost got sick i was so ashamed of myself."

Sorry, but this is not my scene! A little mental punishment - like now, when I'm totally ignoring her - works wonders for her smartass mouth. Although this time she may have pushed me too far. But I probably wouldn't have her any other way; I really do love her completely. I will just remind her of her place beneath me, and she will be fine in a day or two. We've been apart for almost a week now, and I have to believe she has just forgotten some of her training. A 24 hour delay in our proposed meeting time will do a lot to restore her submissiveness.

Now, please excuse me, I have to go track her down, and give her some instructions.

Thank you for the kind words about me, even when I was being so naughty. I'm feeling much better today. But I still deserve to be punished!

I know that I am not a sub in the way many people mean it, but I am submissive in the bedroom, and when we are at home together. I do obey orders, even when I don't really want to, like today, walking around in public with just a thong under my business suit. Not ony do I hate it, but it's damn cold!

But I know I am doing it to get back into my role as submissive; obeying all your orders, instead of just some of them would be a waste of time and energy. If I was just going to obey some of them, the whole thing would be pointless, wouldn't it?

I was cuffed all last night, too like you ordered. I will be waiting for you tonight, as instructed.

... BORROW her for, like, two days? LOL

Only two days? How about a week?

If you insist. :D

This seemed like a good discussion. Well, the first page was at least. I didn't read past that. So if it gets all ugly on pages two and three, don't blame me.

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