Damaged Goods

I'm waiting for Master to come online, and so I've come back to good old BDSM library to amuse myself while I wait.

Something a friend said to me the other day got me thinking...
Are all Subs damaged goods?

Since BDSM is considered to many to be out of the "norm", is their something that makes us sub girls (and guys) abnormal...

And further more... is it wierd that I quite like the idea of being damaged goods... I'm falling far too quickly for my new Master, and the thing I like about Him the most is that He is considerate to my flaws and limits, using them as a basis to work on. Without the things that make me damaged, we would really just be two people fucking rough, but it's in the way He handles my flaws that shows He really cares...

So what do you think? Can a submissive truely be submissive without being a little bit damaged to begin with?

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Originally Posted by Just A Girl

I'm waiting for Master to come online, and so I've come back to good old BDSM library to amuse myself while I wait.

Something a friend said to me the other day got me thinking...
Are all Subs damaged goods?

Since BDSM is considered to many to be out of the "norm", is their something that makes us sub girls (and guys) abnormal...

And further more... is it wierd that I quite like the idea of being damaged goods... I'm falling far too quickly for my new Master, and the thing I like about Him the most is that He is considerate to my flaws and limits, using them as a basis to work on. Without the things that make me damaged, we would really just be two people fucking rough, but it's in the way He handles my flaws that shows He really cares...

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I do not think that your definition leaves any room for someone to not be "damaged", everyone has flaws and limits. I guess it all depends on how you define "normal".

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Originally Posted by Just A Girl

So what do you think? Can a submissive truely be submissive without being a little bit damaged to begin with?

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What I think - I think that everyone has damage, so in short no. A more in-depth answer would be that i don't think that it is a requirement that a sub be non-normal either... since I believe everyone has "damage".

I don't think I define damages as being flawed... I really wasn't clear with that though :P

I dunno.. i think my idea of damaged is something more mental than just a flaw... it's a way of thinking... almost a lack of selfworth in a way

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Originally Posted by Just A Girl

....

Since BDSM is considered to many to be out of the "norm", is their something that makes us sub girls (and guys) abnormal...

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Abnormal, as in variant from the statistical norm, yes. Damaged, no. Life would be dull indeed if we all conformed to statistical norms.

Just A Girl, you have run up against one of the few orthodoxies you are going to find on this site. I can speak for no one but myself, but I know exactly what you mean, and yes, I am damaged. That's life. I manage to enjoy myself.

Some people are damaged. Whether it be from past experiances, family of origin issues, or what not. But just because you desire this life style doesn't mean you are damaged. If you feel you are damaaged goods and that works for you, then fine. It doesn't seem unhealthy from that stand point. It's the people that are truly damaged and know it or are in denial that about it and don't work thru the issues that are emotoinally unhealthy. Thats not good. But simlply because you like this life style doesn't mean you are damaged goods.

Damaged goods? I don't think so. Everybody is damaged in some way. The thing to remember is that there is no "Normal", only average, and who wants to be average?

I have lived a pretty normal and boring life to this point, and the most abnormal thing about me is that I was mildly depressed in high school. I have never been abused or assaulted (sexually or otherwise), and I have ended most of my relationships by mutual agreement. I am VERY dominant, demanding and forceful in everyday situations and even with my husband. Being submissive has nothing to do with my history, but rather everything to do with my relationship with my Master and our mutual curiosity to LIVE in this world while we are both here.

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Originally Posted by Just A Girl

I'm waiting for Master to come online, and so I've come back to good old BDSM library to amuse myself while I wait.

Something a friend said to me the other day got me thinking...
Are all Subs damaged goods?

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Interesting thought - if that were true, what would that make all dominants?
;-))

But I agree with many here - not many people go through life without picking up the odd mental bruise and lump. Part of being alive, I think.

As for actual damaged goods:No.

There have been enough research on BDSM people to show that we have the same percentage of crack heads and normal people as in a comparable group of vanillas.

I'm reminded of a cartoon in my counselling newsletter... A couple's eyes meeting across a crowded room... Both of them thinking "What a divinely damaged person!"

Some relationships are based on playing the "patient/healer" game. By its nature, D/s lends itself to these roles. That doesn't mean that a sub needs to be damaged, just that a sub who enjoys playing the "patient" will find plenty of Doms happy to play that game.

We all have our dents and creases in our personality, and we are naturally happiest in a relationship that fits them. That goes for Doms as much as for subs: I know just which of my old damage patterns are satisfied by dominance and which by submission. But that's separate from the reasons I am a switchy Dom.

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Originally Posted by leo9

I'm reminded of a cartoon in my counselling newsletter... A couple's eyes meeting across a crowded room... Both of them thinking "What a divinely damaged person!"

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I love this image.

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Originally Posted by leo9

I know just which of my old damage patterns are satisfied by dominance and which by submission. But that's separate from the reasons I am a switchy Dom.

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I don't understand this at all. Sorry. The damage is satisfied by the bdsm, but your pull to bdsm is not caused by that damage?

I also do not consider myself damaged and yet I am certainly a sub. I agree that all have some form of mental bruising but the relevance of mental stress is not that it happens but how you deal with it. Things like depression and other serious mental illness can happen because of an individual's response to their environment - some are hardened by adversity, others are destroyed. Of course, neurotransmitters are also involved somewhere but then psychology will never escape the nature/nurture debate :)

I think a tendency to be drawn to BDSM is more a feature of the variety in mental states. In any variable expressed as a normal distribution there will always be those who are at the extreme ends. This is likely to be independent of any other mental state.

Reminded me a quote:

Thou hast not half that power to do me harm
as I have to be hurt.
- Emilia, Shakespeare's Othello.


The idea that someone will eventually know me so well that he could destroy my world with a single word and yet he chooses not to thrills me. Everyone has weaknesses, imperfections, damages, whatever you name it, but if we didn't, how would we savor the experience when someone helps us compensate for them?

I would call myself damaged.

I don't think any sub, or any person is "damaged" goods.

And I happen to like being pretty average.

And just because people like to have "normal" sex or "normal" relationships doesn't make them boring and average. To each their own.

i read this post and once again my head hung..

Yes i am damaged through mental and physical both..

i can't speak for others as i am not them but i know without the submission .. i am lost ..a complete mess..

i can't organize myself... everything i do falls to peices without some sort of direction or drive pushing me...

My head is filled with constant thoughts and races through them all..

The memory of pains created years ago fill me as well and i feel usless and give up..

So yes damaged .. To need to be leaded and controlled ..yes ...

To be filled with pain until i can no longer feel the mental pain ..yes
to find that special place yes..

i am very lucky to have my Master R/L {The Tester`} and my O/L Sir {WyldWyl} although near always i feel i let them down constantly... Even when they assure me i don't...

Take note i am not looking for pity or anything.. i just wanted to be honest.. as you see some think i am strong ... but i am not.. i am a pet/kitten that hurts more often then she is willing to say.. and is curled in a ball more times then not...

So yes i feel that we all have some flaws and damages ... But i feel all people do..vanilla or not.. just some may not have had as bad or as severe.. We all run into times that aren't good... Some chalk it up to "a lesson well learnt" or "thats life".. Whether that has lead us to be a submissive or a Dom/me.. well i think it is a personal chioce..addiction or want or need or just lifestyle we have chosen.. no matter what the reason might be.. Everyone is different with different reasons...

So no i don't think the reason all subs are subs because they are damaged goods .. just some of us..

For me it is the damage of past life and illness.. but remember that is me.. not everyone..

Just my opinion

hugs
snow

I think a lot of what is said above is spot on... being vulnerable to emotions and things is a human trait. Without that susceptibility we would not be human. Being broken is independent of whether you are submissive or not (evidence for that - I think we have had a range of responses to this thread from some saying they are broken and a sub and others saying they are not broken and a sub) but it is not independent of whether you are human or not.

Snowflake says that she needs her submission to cope with her problems. A question I would pose to any who have this feeling is: Do you think you would still be submissive if you were not broken? If a magical cure for all your woes were available and you took it, would you then leave your Master/Mistress and lead a 'normal' life as a vanilla? I think this question is the crux of the matter - direct cause/effect relationship between psychological state and submission or happenstance?

Thank you for sharing that hearfelt and honest post, Snowflake. And I am sure you know that as well as your two Masters (two! Extreme luck!) there are those here on the forums who are happy to talk you through any woes you may have - either in public or privately. The same goes to anyone who posts here...

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Originally Posted by fetishdj

I think a lot of what is said above is spot on... being vulnerable to emotions and things is a human trait. Without that susceptibility we would not be human. Being broken is independent of whether you are submissive or not (evidence for that - I think we have had a range of responses to this thread from some saying they are broken and a sub and others saying they are not broken and a sub) but it is not independent of whether you are human or not.

Snowflake says that she needs her submission to cope with her problems. A question I would pose to any who have this feeling is: Do you think you would still be submissive if you were not broken? If a magical cure for all your woes were available and you took it, would you then leave your Master/Mistress and lead a 'normal' life as a vanilla? I think this question is the crux of the matter - direct cause/effect relationship between psychological state and submission or happenstance?

Thank you for sharing that hearfelt and honest post, Snowflake. And I am sure you know that as well as your two Masters (two! Extreme luck!) there are those here on the forums who are happy to talk you through any woes you may have - either in public or privately. The same goes to anyone who posts here...

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Thanks hun for your kind words...

Yes i would still be a submissive ..but i don't think as submissive as i am now.. i wouldn't have to lean so hard on them for approval or justification on my doings so much.. i would be more trusting in my self to please them..

Although it helps that i am also very passive and shy ..and always have been and i truly love to make others happy.. So yes the submissive would stay... but i would not need so much direction to keep in a normal day...

Whispers it takes two of them to keep me going ..giggles.. and yes i am very lucky...

Just my opinion

hugs
snow

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Do you think you would still be submissive if you were not broken? If a magical cure for all your woes were available and you took it, would you then leave your Master/Mistress and lead a 'normal' life as a vanilla? I think this question is the crux of the matter - direct cause/effect relationship between psychological state and submission or happenstance?

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I do not have a Master, so my answers may be odd.

Find me a person over the age of 16 who does not have some some sort of emotional baggage, and I'll... do something. I don't think the broken/damaged feeling has an intrinsic relationship with being submissive, but it seems to be common factor. I can't remember ever not feeling some sense of brokenness inside me, so I can't say if I would be the same person at all, let alone if that one aspect would change.

I do not have a desire to be "normal." Ugh. Maybe it's just the sick emotional masochist inside me, but I don't mind calling myself broken or damaged. Now, hypothetically, if I did get "cured," I doubt I would leave my hypothetical Master because I would have chosen him for reasons other than just because he made me feel better.

I don't think the damaged/broken feeling is a cause or effect of submissiveness. There are plenty of broken people in the world who aren't submissive, and from what I've seen here, there are plenty of submissives who don't identify as broken. That said, it does seem to be a common feeling, if only amongst those on this thread.

It's funny - most people probably wouldn't pin me as being submissive. Or broken. Nothing in particular has ever happened to break or damage me - just little things in my mind that won't go away.

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Originally Posted by Just A Girl

I'm waiting for Master to come online, and so I've come back to good old BDSM library to amuse myself while I wait.

Something a friend said to me the other day got me thinking...
Are all Subs damaged goods?

Since BDSM is considered to many to be out of the "norm", is their something that makes us sub girls (and guys) abnormal...

And further more... is it wierd that I quite like the idea of being damaged goods... I'm falling far too quickly for my new Master, and the thing I like about Him the most is that He is considerate to my flaws and limits, using them as a basis to work on. Without the things that make me damaged, we would really just be two people fucking rough, but it's in the way He handles my flaws that shows He really cares...

So what do you think? Can a submissive truely be submissive without being a little bit damaged to begin with?

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I am not sure what Normal is anymore. FOr too many years i tried to be "Normal" and there was always something missing. FInally nearly 40 years ago, i said i dont care about being Normal, i am a submissive, and i love being submissive. Am i damaged goods. My Mistress L says i am a treasure to her. Yes she has to correct me and punish me for my failures, but she does it out of love for me and for my submissiveness. She has taken me much farther than i ever thought i could go as a submissive, and she promises me that i have much much farther to go.

slavedoggieboy

I often have the feeling of being "damaged goods". It is not something I confide in people, because due to my looks and overachiever reputation, most would rubbish it. It is nonetheless something I have to fight almost daily.

It is not the reason why I am a sub. So yes, even if I were "perfect" I would still be submissive and seek this type of relationship.

I admit that Hubby has often used "scenes" to convey to me things, when words were not enough. But I think every couple has their special way of communicating and we have elevated playing mind games and analyzing each other to the level of foreplay. So again, even if we were "perfect" we would simply find another way of fucking with each other.

So, from the posts above it does look as though the 'being broken' is not linked directly to the submissiveness. I agree that everyone has problems and I think even the most confident seeming people have insecurities - its just that they are better at hiding them than others (and there is a whole debate behind whether it is better to hide your weakness and be successful or show them to the world). Having been in a position where people tend to naturally respect you simply because of the job you are doing, I can tell you that it is scary to have people follow your commands as if you knew what you were talking about. I think even Barack Obama sits in the Oval office and thinks 'They're doing what I told them to do? Why? What do I know that makes me any better at making that sort of decision?' Its understandable given the sort of decision his job now involves on a daily basis but even us normal people have the same uncertainties and that feeling that we just aren't worthy.

girl wonders why being damaged has to lead to being submissive. sometimes being damaged does more harm to the D/s relationship than 'good'- being afraid of something or unable to overcome one obstacle because of being hurt before happens even in the D/s relationship. it can lead to what some Doms call 'bad habits' or reflexes developing that are difficult to get rid of. people deal with pain differently.. w/We should know that?

I believe "damaged goods" occurs at birth. There are no perfect humans.

Everyone has to get burned at least once before they learn fire is hot, everyone skins thier knee before they learn to watch where they are going.

It is the damaging process that molds us into the people we are.
Some who skin thier knees get up and keep going, some will walk with a limp and yet others become crippled. Because we are all different both physically and mentally , we are all going to react different to the very same damage.

Damaged Goods seems to imply that one looses value as the damage occurs. There are flip sides of that as well. The younger you are the less damage , youth is seen as beauty, but also very fragile. The older, more damaged you see strength and knowledge and that can be just as beautiful.

In a world full of damaged goods, just how does one define 'normal'? What is acceptable in some countries/cultures is not only unacceptable in others but illegal. Imagine the earth being a huge snow globe that was shaken and everyone landing in a different spot.

Have you ever thought that "normal" may just be the judgemental ? The ones who are so damaged themselves the only thing they know to do is point fingers and say YOU are not right YOU dont belong . The ones who hide behind a mask that they see as perfection, yet those who look at them only see fake and phony ?

Those normal people scare me the most. They are so concerned with hiding thier "damage" that when those loose screws start popping out they have no clue how to do damage control.
How many times have you seen a news reporter talking to friends/neighbors of serial killers, rapists.....and heard the simple statement....."They seemed so normal" ?

OK...feeling a bit feisty tonight so apologies for the response

Damaged? Maybe...hell, yeah, ok....TOTALLY....but I have always worked hard on my damage (kinda like mental 'panel beating' ;oP), growing stronger as I learn to cut through the old crap to reveal what was always there in the first place (just got covered in a layer of someone else's shit - no pun intended! hehehe) and that is the difference between being 'damaged' and a victim..

But I can understand why a lot of people think being a sub is a result of being 'damaged' as there are SO many amongst us who have been abused both sexually and physically...the thread is undeniable. But we should realise that most of us consider ourselves as 'abuse SURVIVORS' rather than 'abuse VICTIMS' and we choose to submit and follow our desires DESPITE our past not because of it. It takes strength and courage to submit even if you have never had your faith and trust so betrayed...imagine the strength it takes for all of us that have been 'damaged' to trust, love and submit...THAT is strength, not weakness

And not to get too 'esoteric', but not all damage weakens....metal is heated to melting point (almost destroying its solid composition) and then beaten with a hammer repeatedly to create a new and stronger version of what it was before....tempered steel has qualities and strength that the raw material cannot achieve...

Phew...sorry...bit philosophical tonight! ;o)

Oh, and for the record, I am a sub and proudly damaged (my Master calls it my 'raw vulnerability') - but for the record my Master has been terribly damaged in his lifetime, even more so than me or anyone else I know, but he is not the slightest bit submissive...he chooses to become the strong, responsible, caring, trust-worthy person that he never had in his own life rather than be bitter and fuck other people over to make himself feel some tiny measure of equilibrium....

All in all, there are no perfect human beings...we are all fucked up, it just depends on how much we let that determine the rest of our lives! ;o)

There's a kind of bitter irony in coming back to this thread tonight.
I started by talking about how my Master handles my flaws...
However, I think I'm about to loose my Master simply because of them.
I recently lost someone really close to me... it's made me go a little bit crazy, push my luck and generally abuse Master's kindness at this time.
It's scary how the very thing that cares for my shattered self can just as easily switch and shatter me into even smaller peices...

Some are, yeah. For some, submission is a coping mechanism, and it helps them deal with their particular brand of damage. Others aren't, and they have other motivations.

What would be an interesting question, is to see where doms fit to complement this... are doms compulsive caregivers, damaged in their own ways, or just predators preying on vulnerable submissives?

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Originally Posted by WyldWyl

Some are, yeah. For some, submission is a coping mechanism, and it helps them deal with their particular brand of damage. Others aren't, and they have other motivations.

What would be an interesting question, is to see where doms fit to complement this... are doms compulsive caregivers, damaged in their own ways, or just predators preying on vulnerable submissives?

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hmmm.. good questions Sir.. So why do you Dom me...?? What are your reasons ..??? you brought it up ...why not answer it first..?? Or maybe why not start another thread so all Dom/mes see the question to get a good response..??

Just my opinion

hugs
snow
{your little one}

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Originally Posted by Just A Girl

There's a kind of bitter irony in coming back to this thread tonight.
I started by talking about how my Master handles my flaws...
However, I think I'm about to loose my Master simply because of them.
I recently lost someone really close to me... it's made me go a little bit crazy, push my luck and generally abuse Master's kindness at this time.
It's scary how the very thing that cares for my shattered self can just as easily switch and shatter me into even smaller peices...

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i am so sorry to hear this Just a Girl .. if you need to talk just pm me ok? i can only imagine slightly how you must be feeling.. but i know when things like this happen stress can do aweful things to how we can act towards others ..

One phrase comes to mind for sure.. "you always hurt the ones you love " especially in difficult times...

i remember how it effected Master and Sir when my dad passed.. i certainly was not the best of subs.. if anything i took my anger, hurt and pain out on them.. maybe because we trust they will be there no matter what.. but i know i was out of control..

Just my opinion

hugs
snow

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Originally Posted by snowflake

hmmm.. good questions Sir.. So why do you Dom me...?? What are your reasons ..??? you brought it up ...why not answer it first..??

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I like to think it's because I want to take care of people. I hope it's not because I'm taking advantage of you- I don't think it is because I know I care deeply for you, and want you to overcome your problems as be happy, as much as you're able to.

But that's just me, and that's in fact, just me with you.

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Originally Posted by WyldWyl

I like to think it's because I want to take care of people. I hope it's not because I'm taking advantage of you- I don't think it is because I know I care deeply for you, and want you to overcome your problems as be happy, as much as you're able to.

But that's just me, and that's in fact, just me with you.

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purrrss... you are so good to me Sir ..

And to be honest that is what i thought .. as you show it every time we talk ... it is just nice to hear/read it sometimes..


hugs
&
Kisses
your little one

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Just A Girl

There's a kind of bitter irony in coming back to this thread tonight.
I started by talking about how my Master handles my flaws...
However, I think I'm about to loose my Master simply because of them.
I recently lost someone really close to me... it's made me go a little bit crazy, push my luck and generally abuse Master's kindness at this time.
It's scary how the very thing that cares for my shattered self can just as easily switch and shatter me into even smaller peices...

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My thoughts are with you. I thought for sure I would lose my boyfriend over Christmas for somewhat similar reasons, and while I didn't, we're still on shaky ground. I wish I had some wise words of wisdom to offer, but I don't know how I'm still hanging on.

Hugs,
stars

at this point in my life, i don't think it's damage that makes us what we are from the start, even before we've realised it--submissives or slaves. i believe it's a personality type. However...we're extra vulnerable to being misused, and are therefore easily damaged. So we end up in a cycle of sorts.

So much has already been said but I feel like putting my 2 cents worth in from my own POV.

With the life I've had, things I've experienced and went through - I feel as if I am damaged. I don't have a whole lot of self worth. I take responsibility for anything and everything whether in reality its my fault or not. I feel as if I deserve to be submissive. Not that it is a bad thing, but I don't feel as if I deserve to be on top. At the same time, I need reassurance and support. Not someone that will abuse my feelings and lack of self worth and self confidence. I need someone that would take me, as damaged, and mold me into something beautiful.

So for me, I fit into a 'damaged goods' category. I've grown up damaged and more than likely will always have the burden of certain events on my shoulders.

Hope this makes sense. It makes a lot more sense to me in my head than it does typed out.