On-line punishment

okay, enquiring minds have to know ...

how do on-line dommes punish their subs? I mean, you can't spank/crop/whip them, you can't tie them to the bed, you can't cuff them, in reality you can't even stop them having an orgasm, if they really wanted one.

There are things you can still do, like remove yourself from them for a while, or make them do something they don't want to do, and provide you with proof they did it, but what else?

I think I spend too much time with my subbie, we don't have to deal with this.

So, what's the worst punishment you've ever had, when your dom wasn't around?

I'm with Lady A--maybe I'm just too focused on the real world but I never enjoyed cyber--it's great for intial meetings but I find it frustrating when you can't can't reach and touch that flesh real time.

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Originally posted by LadyAmanda
okay, enquiring minds have to know ...

how do on-line dommes punish their subs? I mean, you can't spank/crop/whip them, you can't tie them to the bed, you can't cuff them, in reality you can't even stop them having an orgasm, if they really wanted one.

There are things you can still do, like remove yourself from them for a while, or make them do something they don't want to do, and provide you with proof they did it, but what else?

I think I spend too much time with my subbie, we don't have to deal with this.

So, what's the worst punishment you've ever had, when your dom wasn't around?

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Lady Amanda, your question is intriguing.

However, the answer lies completely in one of the most central underlying foundations of BDSM. ~TRUST~

When One is seperated from a naughty sub, You must, as you suggested give them unpleasant assignments. What those are depend upon those in the relationship and are realy unimportant. What is important is having the trust in your sub, that he/she will complete the assignment and keep to any limitations you place upon them.

This trust goes both ways, though, the naughty sub (most naughty subs actualy want to be pnished to bing them closer to You). THe naughty sub must have teh trust in you that you will follow through and check his/her progress and completion. The sub must also know that You will place further strictures and punishments upon him/her for failure to complete the punishment task(s).

Though not nearly as satisfactory as skin to skin, RT physicla punihments they can work when life and distance seperate the ofending subby from the tail of the lash, it can be effective, ~if~ the trust in one another is there. This can be applied to on-line as well as seperation due to the strangeness of life.

I am strictly opposed to any kind of removing yourself from your submissive as a form of punishment. I see that as selfish and abusive, and completely non-constructive. Personal opinion of course, but I did once see a submissive who was punished by being deprived of her Dominant and she was a trainwreck because of it, and this formed My less than humble opinion. But then her Dumbinant was not really a Dominant anyway so.. :P

ok, clips work good...

Steel Wool or pots and pans scruby in the underwear works wonders.

Forced Butt Plugs durring the night...

Ruber Bands around Arms and legs, Tell them to pull them back X height and snap... X times

Hmmm....

Online Porn Exposure...

or if the equipment is available, Violent wands/Tens Unit...

Hot pepper sauce works great

Iching powder...

Hmmm... Thats all I can think right now...

Inform your ill-mannered submissive that you will be ignoring all her messages and emails until she writes you a 2000 word document explaining why she has been acting so poorly. She should also include how she thinks she should be treated when you see her (if your relationship is partially r/t).

You, of course, should not even bother to read the part about how she should be punished in real life, because she's going to write something she wants to happen. You should do something you know very well she won't like at all.

Why punish the body when you can punish the mind intead. It's so much more effective when you're apart. Just don't let mental punishments become forms of manipulation. That would be bad.

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Originally posted by BDSM_Tourguide
Inform your ill-mannered submissive that you will be ignoring all her messages and emails until she writes you a 2000 word document explaining why she has been acting so poorly. She should also include how she thinks she should be treated when you see her (if your relationship is partially r/t).

You, of course, should not even bother to read the part about how she should be punished in real life, because she's going to write something she wants to happen. You should do something you know very well she won't like at all.

Why punish the body when you can punish the mind intead. It's so much more effective when you're apart. Just don't let mental punishments become forms of manipulation. That would be bad.

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Here was a punishment for a real life submissive of mine...
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Due to the fact that you are unable for the weekend to meet your obligations as my slut, toy, and submissive I will be forced to punish you. This punishment will not be easy, and on completion will prove to me your dedication towards me and my policies.

Your assignment for the weekend is at least a 10 page paper, single space "Times" 10 pt font and 1 inch margins.

Topic: Why its a pleasure and obligation to physically and mentally serve my master. Include at least 1 chapter (at least 1 page) each, dedicated for the following areas of pleasure: mouth, anal and cunt. Each Chapter must include sub sections: "How I expect to please my master (with my mouth, with my anus or with my cunt)", "What I like about pleasing my master (with my mouth, with my anus or with my cunt)", and "How I hope to please my master in the future (with my mouth, with my anus or with my cunt)". Each chapter heading will be bold size 14 font, and each section heading will be bold size 12 font. Additional sections and chapters must also be created on varous topics that you feel suitable to the overall goal of this paper. These must include but is in no way limited to how you may try and make yourself more visually apealing, mentally apealing, and how you must continuosly take care of your master. Incorrect Spelling, or Grammer will be punished with additional papers, or other methods. Lack of original ideas and thoughts will also be punished severly

Presentation: On the day of your return, you must present this paper to me in a binded cover and table of context. The first page of your report will contain the assignment, and what it means to you. In addition a digital version must also be sent to my email AFTER the physical presentation. You will present this to me in your fuck whole on your face, and in your "bowing" position.

PS The table of context and the assignment description will count towards your goal of 10 pages.

Well, I would have to agree with Lord Thomas on the trust aspect. If you and your submissive turst each other, it shouldn't be a problem. You should be able to have the confidence that your submissive will do as you ask regardless of your pressence or not.

As for writing assignments... well, those would not really be a punishment for me because I enjoy writing and length is not usually an issue for me... though ten pages on a specific subject might be a little daunting... may even 2000 words would be tough but there are ways around that...ways to make those 2000 words and ten pages go a little easier. Though that is my little secret. (cheeky little grin)

Going back to trust...
Writing assignments can be effective, but then so could having them do yardwork, couldn't it? Having them get rid of a favorite plant or something could be a devastatingly powerful punishment.

The punishment itself is immaterial. I guess that is My real pont here. But in a strictly online relationship, Y/you must, MUST! have the confidnce in the ~trust~ in one another for it to work.

Of course without trust fully from both parties in the relaionship I can not conceive of the relationship being anywhere, safe, sane, conscenual, or even real at all.

LT

Thank you - you have all carried out your assignments in fine form, I am very happy with most of the results. <LOL>

Kostly, your first post, about
"ok, clips work good...
Steel Wool or pots and pans scruby in the underwear works wonders.
Forced Butt Plugs durring the night...
Ruber Bands around Arms and legs, Tell them to pull them back X height and snap... X times
Hmmm....
Online Porn Exposure..."

works well for me, giving me all kinds of strange and wonderful ideas ...

The idea about writing out reasons for the misbehaviour work well too, in certain situations - thanks, everyone.

I use a large diameter butt plug with a suction cup base and a smooth wooden chair. My Dom makes me get up often for drinks or to go get more things she KNOWS are not within reach. Drives me crazy every time I must get back in the seat.

Interesting topic! One dear to my own heart.

As has already been said, trust is most important. If you can't trust your sub to be honest about her actions and reactions, both positive and negative, then you may as well not even bother. But when the trust is there it can be very enjoyable for the both of you.

One particularly effective punishment which I used on an online sub involved forcing her to do something which she enjoyed, but in a manner which she did NOT enjoy. This particular sub confessed to me, early in our relationship, that she frequently masturbated while reading BDSM stories. Being the sweet kind Dom that I am, I allowed her to continue masturbating, as long as she didn't cum. Needless to say, she had a hard time compling with this requirement.

After several unsuccessful attempts to control her orgasms, I thought of this gem. She was to begin early Saturday morning, and she was REQUIRED to have at least one orgasm every hour until midnight. However, she was only allowed to masturbate with her toothbrush.

By noon time, after her 4th or 5th orgasm, she was sending me messages begging to be allowed to stop. About 3PM I received a message that she had found blood on the toothbrush and had stopped for the day. (This was a standing rule with us: no blood, no permanent damage.)

She was unable to wear panties for the next day or two, and had no desire to masturbate for at least a week! An effective punishment to my way of thinking.

OMG Throne,

/shudders at that punishment. i have well had a smiliar problem. my Master had discovered that i love reading stories on this site and on google with their term highlighting and masturbating to them. Once Master discovered this he had me spend a day collecting stories on my local computer. that entire day i was locked away in my "punishment" chastity belt. the next day Master locked me to the chair and left one hand free to play with myself as i read the stories out loud as i masturbated. This happened twice an hour. The rest of the hour was just spent reading to myself w/o masturbation. At first i thought YAY, i can play carte blanche with myself. then after a couple times it started getting old and not as exciting..... then it was just not fun at all. now when Master lets me play with myself and read i enjoy it so much more!

Damn bdsmlibrary.com LOL............

i love this site and am glad E/everyone is so nice


-- keera --

Thorne ... thank you ... what an excellent idea.

I just know that my on-line sub will also be so grateful that you have shared it with us.

I find a good form of punishment to be the use of a muscle warming embrocation (in the UK the best is probably ralgex stick). Applied to her nipples this has an extremely arresting effect, while the threat (not yet transferred to reality) of application to her clitoris has been more than sufficient to focus her mind almost instantly on her proper place, grovelling at my feet.

verdana
Hi,

I hope I am not too late to enter this discussion, but I am a newbie here and missed out on the original stuff.

This is a subject close to my heart as my owner lives and works in london, and my job means I am in Oxford most of the time, although we always get together at weekends, and at other times too. So the way he disciplines and punishes me 'at long distance' is something that is important to us.

Obviously he has plumbed into my dislikes and uses his intimate knowledge of them to ensure that I stay in line even if he isn't there. For instance, I hate kneeling for long, so I have to spend time kneeling, gagged and hooded, in the corner of the room as a routine reminder of my status and how I am HIS possession. I have a kitchen timer that I set just before adopting that pose and I can't shift until it rings to tell me that I have 'done my time'.

My owner trusts me not to try to evade or shorten these periods, and other disciplinary 'exercises', and I am glad to say that I don't. In the same way, I must confess any failings on my part and I equally accept punishment, even if he is not there to witness it. We have a variety of ways of doing this, which are mainly physical, although some are psychological (not touching my body between neck and knees except in the shower or bathing and then only minimally as necessary for hygiene. Locking myself into my chastity belt when at work. Etc Etc.)

Obviously the major physical punishments (whippings etc.) are held over until we meet, and that makes them even worse - waiting a week for punishment is NOT a pleasant experience. So we seem to have a workable balance here, and it certainly helps me stay on the beam while we are apart.

If it sounds that my day-to-day existence is fully of punishments, I should add that serious punishments happen rarely thankfully, although 'disciplinary exercises' like the kneeling one, are regular aspects of my existence.

Hope this helps.
Love, Jane.

I guess I'm fortunate that I was introduced to the life by a willing sub and have been able to enjoy a relationship that is "up close and personal". I've been working with PCs since they invented the damn things and I've certainly heard a lot about cybersex and online relationships...I just could never figure out how to type and jerk off at the same time!

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Originally posted by andibabe
[BIt's not really a feeling I can describe, but the submissives out there can empathize! [/B]

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Hi andibabe....YES! i can empathize, it is a bloody awful feeling, but i also would really struggle to describe it!

sl

Hi again.

YES!!! I can empathise so much with Slave Lucy and Andibabe, and it is so good to find that other slaves/submissives feel the same way as I do. Perhaps I should explain that we don't do 'the scene', so my contact with others girls like me is limited and there have been times when I have felt alone, and even wondered if I was the ONLY person who lived this life style. So it's wonderful to find other slaves experience the same pleasures and problems as I do.

'Trust' is a word that has been used regularly in discussing this topic and rightly so, as (for me anyway) it is absolutely vital that my owner trusts me. As I said earlier, my work means I am 60 miles from him for most of the week and (modestly?!?) I can say that I am attractive enough to get a lot of propositions - some charmingly innocent, some not so - at work and elsewhere. Saying "No!" to a tempting invitation always gives me a kick and a warm glow as I know I have justified my owner's trust in me. And it is the same when I am disciplined or punished at long distance. It doesn't make the experience any less unpleasant or trying, but afterwards I allow myself a moment of pride in the knowledge that I have done it right and justified my wonderful owner's confidence and trust in me.

(Of course, he will probably read all this, and I'll get myself punished for my 'overweaning pride'. But I wanted to say what I did and so.................)
Love, Jane.

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Originally posted by Jane SC
Hi andibabe....YES! i can empathize, it is a bloody awful feeling, but i also would really struggle to describe it!

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I have been fortunate enough to live most of my bdsm life as a R/T (real time) experience, but I do know what you mean when you write about the awful feeling that comes from knowing my absent masted is angry at me or, even worse, dissapointed with my actions.
It is a hopeless feeling of missing out that wrings my heart and makes me even more determined to endure the ensuing punishment the best I can. I guess the only other thing that could make me feel that bad would be to (heaven forbid!,)cheat on him.
It is always a matter of honour and trust to have the strenght to admit my failings to him when he has been absent. I know I would not last a day if I tried to hide anything from him.

I have found that from personal irl (in real life) dealings that subs often break the rules set out for them. That part of the dealings between D & s is for the sub to see how far they can push before being forced back. Therefore if all subs are not always going to obey irl then how can you expect an online sub to do what you say.

There is no logic in it, which is why I prefer the real thing.

Hi again
I hope I haven't given the impression that I have a full time 'on line' relationship with my owner. I lived with him 24/7 for over two years before things made it essential for me to move away for a bit, which is why he is in London and I am on Oxford (UK) during the working week.

Perhaps I have misled people because really what I have been talking about (as, I think, are most of the subbies posting on this tread as well) is carrying on a thriving relationship when my owner is not physically pesent all the time. As Count Duq points out, it must be hard (impossible?) if such a relationship is SOLELY on-line. (Mine, I have to confess, is mainly 'on telephone' rather than on line, although that will change when I have managed to get my cam working.) I have to admit that I am not sure that I could cope with a totally seperate existence; I have come to rely on my owner to an enormous degree during our time together and that's the bedrock on which our relationship is based.

As for subbies testing their masters/owners, I am sure that must happen in just about ever healthy D/s relationship; it certainly did in ours. Like Nikka I learnt painfully just how easily he could see through my little games, and it did not take very long for me to discover that they were not worthwhile from any aspect. Now I get far more of a kick from pleasing him than I ever did from seeing just how far I could push him (which turned out NOT to be very far:( )

Hope this clarifies things a bit
Love Jane

Real life is better than online. At least this way one has a more reasonable idea as to if the person is just playing around or is actually serious.

However, online should not be discredited either. TG and I had a fairly lengthy online relationship before it turned to real life. Why? Well for the first 6 months we had the online relationship because we were in the "getting to know you" phase of our relationship. We also got to know each other on a non-BDSM level. And of course there was the fact that were over 2000 miles apart.

I eventually moved to Texas and stayed with him for over a year. Then, after having come back up to Canada to visit family, I was unable to get back and we were seperated nearly a year. It was difficult and it was nearly the end of us on a couple of occasions but we made it. Why? Because we still had online.

Now we live in a community that has absolutely no real life community so we turn to online where we hope we can find others like us to at least communicate with.

TG also had a purely online submissive. I loved her a lot and she never once betrayed TG. We know this because we had known her for years before hand. Now she couldn't be with us physically but the spirit was still there and she remained with us until she died of cancer about 6 months ago. We feel the loss of her just as severely even though we were never given the opportunity to meet her face to face.

She was one of the best friends that I have ever known and I had never seen her in real life. And we all trusted each other. That is the biggest, hardest thing about an online relationship but I would not have traded it for anything else in the world. I am just happy to know that we had that little bit together.

Online relationships work much better with a cam and a microphone. Wontworry and i have a purely online realtionship, as time and distance prevents anything else at the moment. A cam prevents any little white lies, because he KNOWS whether i obeyed because he can SEE me and hear me, and i can hear him. It makes things a little more realistic, rather than words on a page.

People who begin their relationships online, get to know each other more quickly, at least in my experience. i have told him things that i would have taken a much longer time to tell if we had been in person. i have found it easier to type some things than to say them aloud.

Just my take on the situation. Everyone is different.

... that there's no trust in your relationship?

Why else would you have to prove that you are carrying out his orders? If I gave an order, I would assume it was done. On the other hand, most of the times when I give an order, the submissive gets writer's cramp.

In my entire time online, I have never had a webcam. Internet messengers and the telephone was all my submissives and I ever needed.

In online relationship, I prefer to work out the mental aspects, because the physical can come when I am physically with the person to whom I am speaking online. Besides, an internet relationship is the perfect grounds to get to know your partner far beyond the 'how far can you put your legs behind your head?' barrier. Internet relationships give people the opportunity to provide and complete writing assignments, questionnaires, summaries, book reports and more. Online relationships are perfect for discussions through forums, chats and messengers about relevant topics, and not just ones related to BDSM.

In essence what I am saying is that there's so much more to do with an online relationship than watch someone 'perform' or carry out tasks on a webcam. Unless, of course, your relationships differ from mine and all you want is just a pure, sexual and physical aspect to it. Which is fine, too, if you don't plan to ever meet in real life.

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Originally posted by BDSM_Tourguide
... that there's no trust in your relationship?

Why else would you have to prove that you are carrying out his orders? If I gave an order, I would assume it was done.

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i cannot tell you how much i agree with you on this TG....if you keep having to check up on someone, once you have established a relationship, then you don't have trust, in addition to which you possibly don't really have D/s either. Infact, i quite like the fact that a Dominant would (as you put it) "give an order and assume that it was done", it is extremely pleasing from a submissive point of view to know this is the case.

i do agree with jazz tho in that it is sometimes easier to get to know someone a lot quicker and in more depth (mentally speaking) o/l than it is in r/l and in fact i think this is the one thing o/l has over r/l and is probably what you are referring to TG when you say that you make use of this aspect in terms of getting to know a person, not just beyond the physical ('how far they can get their legs behond their head - lol!) but without being distracted by the physical.....hence why i also agree with you about the webcam issue.

Each to their own tho i guess, i doubt most guys are quite as cerebral and patient as you are TG ;)

sl

That is NOT what i am saying at all... Trust is absolutely crucial and has been established.

My point was merely that it was an added dimension to a realtionship that quite possibly will never BE in real life.

AND i pointed out that everyone is different

i personally enjoy the cam and microphone, makes things REAL for me.

To each their own!

To follow TGs argument logically would mean that it is wrong to even exchange photographs with a sub or Dom because that would “prove” that you are as you have described yourself. Presumably this would then move beyond the visual aspect to any “proof”, for instance if you received something written by the sub that is in the public domain.

I am seriously impressed if TG has never asked for, or been sent, a photograph or anything else that could be taken as some form of proof that an on-line partner is the person he thinks they are. If, on the other hand, he has ever received any proof at all of an ‘on-line’ person’s existence, how is that different from a web cam, except in degree.

Trust is essential in an on-line relationship, and the trust shown by a sub who will use a web cam is huge, particularly when that cam is a one way street. I do not need proof of anything my sub is doing – like TG I assume it will be done, but to assume that there is NO trust merely because a sub is prepared to use a cam is not only illogical, it is just WRONG. It is also entirely incorrect to assume that a web cam is merely there to show a performance or to see tasks that are being carried out.

As TG admits that he has never used a cam with a sub, I would suggest that he tries it before criticising those who do. That might be give him a more balanced view of the topic before suggesting that a relationship between people he does not know contains no trust.

I think I have an idea as to what threw TG off with what jazz said and I will admitt it threw me for a loop as well.

The statemet was this from jazz :"A cam prevents any little white lies, because he KNOWS whether i obeyed because he can SEE me and hear me, and i can hear him."

If I had read that without hearing the following arguements, I would have assumed the same thing. Besides, he never actually said using a web cam was wrong. He simply stated that he never felt the need for one because we had the turst there.

I seriously doubt he was saying that you (jazz and WW) don't have a trusting relationship, but that he was comparing preferences and opinions. He was not critisising, just stating his point of view. Though, like perhaps he may or may have done with jazz's statement, you may have read too much into what he was saying and took it to be something that it really was not.

That being said, TG and I met onpine. It will be 5 years ago in January in fact. We used a chatroom and ICQ to chat back and forth. I had described myself to him before we met and never actually gave him a picture until he had to pick me out of a hundred different people at the airport. He believed that what I told him was the truth.

He was not saying that anything you are jazz was wrong, but perhaps making a general comment. He did not say you and jass did not trust each other, just that many do you use a cam as a tool to "make sure" people are doing as their told.

*shrugs* But like you all said, to each their own. No one was berating you for what you do so please do not jump on someone for stating an opinion that was not pointed at you, but simply following the thread of conversation. Had he thought that about yourself and jazz, he would have mentioned you specifically. Believe me, I know. I have known him for a long time and know when he is directly accusing someone of something.

While I can see what you are trying to say FF .. there is no way to misinterpret the line "so what you are actually saying is that there is no trust in your relationship"

It is VERY personal and NOT a general comment.

Ah but you do not recognise how he could misunderstand, WW> Can you not see how her post could have been misunderstood by her comment?

"A cam prevents any little white lies, because he KNOWS whether i obeyed because he can SEE me and hear me, and i can hear him."

If you read this what would YOU think? Would you think that there is a lot of trust in that relationship? I know I wouldn't because it seems like the cam is there to "prevent little white lies." Do you see where he is coming from now?

FF .. firstly we should be doing this somewhere other than a public forum.

Secondly ... I still do NOT see how that line portrays any LACK of trust ... merely a wish by a sub to prove herself to her Dom

Do you not wish TG to know that you have complied with his wishes. If so .. what is the difference between telling him and showing him? If there is a difference .. would you not rather show him something (a tattoo, piercing, bruises, etc,) or would you just tell him about them and expect that to suffice.

I also return to the point about how on earth he feels able to pass such an authorititive opinion when he has NEVER used one.

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Originally posted by Wontworry
To follow TGs argument logically would mean that it is wrong to even exchange photographs with a sub or Dom because that would “prove” that you are as you have described yourself. Presumably this would then move beyond the visual aspect to any “proof”, for instance if you received something written by the sub that is in the public domain.

I am seriously impressed if TG has never asked for, or been sent, a photograph or anything else that could be taken as some form of proof that an on-line partner is the person he thinks they are.

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Sorry WW, but i don't agree, the photograph analogy is a tenuous one - the exchange of a photograph, in order to gain some appreciation of who you are talking to and make an o/l relationship of any sort more meaningful, is not, IMHO, the same thing as using a webcam or any other form of technology to prove to a Dominant (or anyone for that matter) that you haven't been telling 'little white lies'. The two are not the same in that a person may not necessarily send a photograph in order to 'prove' who they are.

i can however understand why you feel a little put out, certainly i meant no offense; i suspect that some of the confusion could have arisen via the use of the line -

"A cam prevents any little white lies, because he KNOWS whether i obeyed because he can SEE me and hear me, and i can hear him."

Certainly i can more than see how a webcam or whatever would bring about a real physical element to an o/l relationship...i do not however think it intensifies the D/s nature of it from a trust point of view, when presented in the 'white lies' context.

sl

WW, As for discussing this here, as long as it is kept in a civil matter, it is alright to debate.

As for what TG meant, he and I have discussed this, and you have misunderstood what he was saying. And he misunderstood what you were saying, so, in interests of keeping things civil and before this gets into a HUGE nit picking feast, which it will soon become, why don't we just say this.

You and jazz trust each other and have chosen to use a web cam. Good for you. That's your choice. TG does not see the need for them that is his opinion and his choice and that he feels if people feel the absolute need for a web cam, then there is a shortage of trust. That is his opinion so let him have it.

Respect each others opinions and if you disagree, do not get all hot under the collar, simply state your opinions in a calm manner and be done with it. There is no reason to get bent out of shape because someone does not agree with your way of doing things. So he misunderstood. It happens everyday. I know I have misunderstood things in my lifetime.

Let's just concede that the the two of you do not agree on the use ofweb cams and whether or not they are needed or what their purpose may be and let's not agonise over one or two little lines in a other wise uniflammatory posts. I just do not want to see this end up in another all out brawl because of another misunderstanding or difference of opinion.

GOODNESS!!!

i merely meant that it makes a more r/l situation...if WW and i were in the same room, he would see my compliance and to use TGs analogy whether i could put my legs behind my head (which he has NEVER been vulgar enough to ask me to do..sheesh).

i can't understand why it is a big deal to use EVERY method of communication available.

In a few years when virtual touch and smell becomes available, i will be hooking up and WW will be the FIRST one i want to use it with. i will always use whatever is available to me....it is NOT about trust it is about giving myself in every way i can to my Master.

Again...I just think that is was the one little line that threw him off jazz. It through me off too. And yet again, it was just an innocent misunderstanding.

You guys trust each other which is awesome. That is a tough thing to actually do online. And I can see why you would want to use the cam since you probably will never neet online.

BUT there are many peole who use web cams to "make sure" their submissive is doing exactly as he/she is told. I have met more than my fair share so when the line about "little whiter lies" came out, it triggered the misunderstanding we now have.

As for the "putting your legs behind you head" thing that TG said. That's just his sense of humor. I don't understand it sometimes myself ;)

Also, when TG gets a chance to be online (when my butt is on the computer) he will be more than happy to explain what he meant and that it was truly not a stab at your relationship...just a bad choice fo words. (Trust me, he and I get in enough tiffs over misunderstanding. lol)

I'm not passing judgement on anyone, although it does seem to me that if someone has to 'prove' that they really are carrying out tasks so that 'little white lies' don't become a problem, then there does seem to be a trust issue.

It seems to me, and only to me and only in my opinion, that if you have to have physical evidence that someone has completed a task, rather than just seeing the results of that task, then there's an issue of trust involved. And, hey, if it was her idea to use the cam and mic, then more power to her and you and I hope you both have a lovely time doing it.

I don't feel the need to have visual evidence of my tasks being done. I can simply assign a writing assignment or a reading assignment with a summary to be written and the written assignment is evidence enough that the task was completed. In my realtionships, though, I am likely to not give physical assignments anyway. The physical world is for meetings in face to face, again in my opinion.

Attribute our disagreement to differences of styles. The majority of my BDSM life is done in the mental realm, with tasks given and carried out and assignments given to be done before a deadline expires. The physical aspects of my BDSM life take a big backseat to the mental. If my relationship is online, then I'd rather read an activities questionnaire or read a written assignment or read a story that my submissive has to prepare than I would see the person to which I am talking put the nipple clamps on and leave them there until I say otherwise.

Granted, I have done that sort of thing before, and it's fun, but I still have not needed or wanted photographic or visual evidence that the task was completed. If it was, yay. If not, oh well. Between the two of us, we would each know how comitted to the relationship the other was. I trust her to do as she's told, if she violates that trust, it's on her shoulders and she has to deal with it. If she gives a shit about the relationship, she'll do what she's asked. If she doesn't, then she won't and it probably won't last anyway. Most of the bad ones don't.

So, no, I don't want to try it. I don't want it and don't need it. That's not to say that I'm going to tell you how to run your relationship, because I don't really care how anyone else runs their relationship. When it applies to me and my realtionship, I run them as I want them done.

I'm also not criticizing anyone for wanting to use webcams and other visual or auditory aides. Fine, do it. Have fun with it. However, if the statement comes up that they are being used to give testimony that the required tasks are being carried out, then, yeah, I have an opinion to insert. Honestly, jazz's wording is for her and WW to discuss and sort out. I responded to the nature of the statement, not to personally attack, but to advise if there was a potential problem.

My chosen handle here and other places is BDSM_Tourguide. I teach, I advise and I listen. That's what I like to do. I'm not so pretentious as to think I can tell someone how to handle their relationship. That's up to the parties therein.

Party on, dudes!



Legal disclaimer: All instances of the word "you" used in this statement have been to the general, second-person usage and not meant for individual means of singling out one or more parties in particular.

Oh my, here we go again!

It is easy for someone who has a r/l partner to propound the virtues of an online relationship as a "cerebral" experience...or some experience that is worthy of more "trust" than a r/l experience. As i don't believe that anyone sits in the other room and yells requests/orders to their sub and just expects them to be done without evidence. Since i don't have a r/l partner, this is ALL that i have and i wanted to make it as "real" as i possibly could (WW can tell his own opinion as to whether this is the case with him). Yes, i told him i had the cam, offered to use it, and he accepted.

Anyone who tells me that they have obeyed EVERY order/request that an online Dom has given them is just, i am sorry, IMHO, lying. No one does it in real life, much less online, where the evidence of their conduct is not apparent. It falls somewhere in the line of faking an orgasm in the vanilla world, and any woman who tells me that she has not EVER done that, i am sorry, IMHO, is also lying.

i perhaps did not explain myself very well, had NO idea it would cause such a big thunderstorm, and the written word does not lend itself to communication of real points...it is about your interpretation of what i said...not my real meaning, which leads me back to why i like to use voice and cam. The inflection of words, the tones of voice, and the looks on a face are worth THOUSANDS of words. We are not talking video porn here, WW could watch a movie for that...everyone knows there are thousands of them out there for FREE.

i acknowledge and accept responsiblity for my lack of explanation. i should have been more clear...and i am new to the online experience as i have pointed out to many of you that i have chatted with. i will take this as a learning experience, that i need to be more specific and spell out EXACTLY what i mean and not leave it open to interpretation by people who do not know me. Since i am new to the forum, you could not possibly know me TG...i couldn't expect you to know that i didn't mean we had video porn running here and that WOULD somehow lessen the importance of our relationship. The video aspect of an online relationship is nice to have, i bought the cam to communicate with my mother who lives a couple hours from me and wanted to stay in closer touch and i wanted her to see my children. Video just made everybody seem closer...more real. It is the same thing here. It just made us closer...more real, that is all. Not about trust...not about PROVING anything...it is about being closer, feeling real in a world where i do not get to live in a lifestyle i would choose. Wouldn't work for everyone.

But i beleive that we have touched on some real issues here and if i hadn't said what i said and you hadn't responded as you did, the discussion would have died and maybe things happened as they did for a reason. You have JUSTLY pointed out that cams can be a lessening of a mental relationship and turn it into a physical one...more like a one night stand. i have tried (hopefully effectively) to point out that cams can improve a relationship, help you get to know your partner if you are not using them for video porn or EVEN if you are if that is your goal. i don't knock anyone for video porn if that is their calling. Obviously, i prefer stories...i spent most of my time (of the time i had available) at this site, lurking, before i came out in the open...some prefer videos.

Also, to each their own......and Party on? You bet. Thanks TG for a lively discussion.

;)

Quote:

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Originally posted by jazz
Anyone who tells me that they have obeyed EVERY order/request that an online Dom has given them is just, i am sorry, IMHO, lying.

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..but isn't this precisely the crux of the matter, i don't think it is a matter of whether or not a sub has obeyed every order issued by a dominant, but rather whether or not they have been truthful about it; this is to say that, yes, i agree that it is unlikely that many people have obeyed every order that an o/l dominant has given them, but surely if they are a worthy submissive, they will be honest about it and say "i'm sorry, i didn't do it" and take the consequences of it...be that a punishment or the dom taking the sub back to the task to try again....to me, it is precisely through this process that a relationship strengthens between a Dom and a sub. i am not talking about yourself and WW jazz, but about the nature of the D/s relationship in general.

On a more playful note....i have personally never faked an orgasm in r/l or o/l.....most men don't need their ego's massaging any further ;)

sl

TG, I can only ask that you look at what you said.

“So, what you're really saying is... that there's no trust in your relationship? Why else would you have to prove that you are carrying out his orders?”

“I responded to the nature of the statement, not to personally attack, but to advise if there was a potential problem."

Well, TG. Look at it again. Do the first two sentences LOOK like advice? Or a personal attack? If that is your way of giving advice I would suggest you take a course in conflict resolution.




“I don't feel the need to have visual evidence of my tasks being done. I can simply assign a writing assignment or a reading assignment with a summary to be written and the written assignment is evidence enough that the task was completed.”

So .. you don’t feel the need to have visual evidence … the written assignment is evidence. WHAT ?????

Your argument is totally illogical. To have total trust in your sub, surely FF would have done the assignment, told you she had done it and .. nothing. You would not need or wish to see it. You would trust her.

This is where I believe you confuse a web cam with some peep show. The use of a cam is no different to any other piece of technical equipment (email, IM, telephone, snail mail, etc) except in degree.

I doubt there has EVER been an online relationship where a sentence along the lines of “I would love to see that/show you” has not been written. A cam allows this. Trust is NOT an issue.

But I'm tired of trying to explain my posts to unreceptive audiences. Think what you want. I really don't see the point in continuing this pointless blunder if you're not even going to try to see what I'm trying to say.

Party on!

Well, gee, Wontworry, I hope you'll let someone else play!

I think slavelucy has put this pretty well, and, like andibabe, I have a little experience in this line.

About this time last year I began a three month on-line relationship. Photos were exchanged (which don't mean a damn thing because they're so easily copied from the internet). Orders were given and, supposedly, followed. Stories were written.

In the end, it turned out that both of us were lying (about different things). If I ever get in another on-line relationship, there will certainly be a web-cam or some other means of verification involved. Lack of trust? Oh, yeah! Big time lack of trust. Having been both biter and bitten, I am at least twice shy.

This crosses over into three or four other threads, but considering how most BDSM players look (me included), I just can't see using a webcam as a turn-on. Who wants to see that? I certainly wouldn't want anyone else seeing me! I guess it's like rubbernecking at a car crash.

Whatever floats your boat.