poll for deleting snuff stories

Hello,
I would like to say that the snuff category in stories should be removed... It hurts me a lot, and I don't understand why it is permitted to speak about that stuff on this site... It is going too far...
Regards
Hairdresser

While I don't read the stories myself and don't appreciate them, there's no reason why they shouldn't be posted.

Someone who visits a BSDM (which is outside mainstrem sexuality) forum is, in my opinion, not one to be censoring others ebcause their judgemental. it's pure hypocracy. I can't stand hypocrasy.

because I love pieces of other poeple's thoughts, I'll pull out some quotes from my quotes file:

Chomksy says:
"If we don’t believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don’t believe in it at all"

Martha Grahm:
"Censorship is the height of vanity."

Samuel Johnson:
"I would rather be attacked than unnoticed. For the worst thing you can do to an author is to be silent as to his works."

"Thunder":
"If there's one thing you learn in BDSM, it's to be open minded. There's no such thing as weird - there's only spaces you don't appreciate."

What it comes down to is that there has been a lot of effort put into adding story codes to each story so that if you have a problem with snuff you can avoid it altogether.

Please don't allow your prejudices to influence the harmless passtimes of others. It's not your place or mine.

The idea of "snuff" comes from pornographic films, and the tittilation in it is that the actress is (supposedly) murdered in the making of the movie.

I have never seen such a movie; I wouldn't want to. The Movie 8MM disturbed me enough.

But these are just stories. The snuff contained in these stories is on par with watching a Friday the 13th movie, or one of the Halloween movies, where the killer murders sexually active young teens.

The only thing I can see a reason for me to boycott reading a story is autobiographical accounts by actual serial killers, like the disgusting shit that the woman who married Danny Rollings peddles. It isn't right to let them profit by the real sufferings of others. In fact, there's a law against it.

But, in order for me to have free speech, they have a right to post it. All I can resommend to you is, look for the story codes and ignore anything with Snuff on it.

I am not a big fan of the snuff theme in stories, I do think that we can not censore it from the site. This site is open to a huge variety of tastes, if you look at the themes of the stories.

I think Voltaire (1759) was right when he said, "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

So if some one is willing to say it, then someone will be willing to listen, and BDSM is all about defending the right to say and do, so long as there is no harm, to that individual or others.

I personally would like them removed from the site, because I honestly can't see how killing women can seem erotic. And it seems a little extreme to me even in BDSM terms.


However, I guess that would be pretty unfair to those who do enjoy them.

So I just avoid them all together. There's plenty of great stories other than the snuff stories on this site.

The thing is that there are a lot of people who would say they have a hard time figuring out how hurting another person or being hurt could be erotic.

What you have to do, ultimately, is remember that because you don't feel it doesn't mean no one does and doesn't mean it's necissarily wrong.

I just wish to express my admiration for Gwen's replies here.

hehe Thanks. :)

Snuff?

Come now good people. I am going to assume by being here, that you all know how to read. And if you know how to read, then the bright red word 'snuff' that is in the story code's should be enough to warn you off. You don't want to read anything with snuff in it, then avoid those that have it in the codes. But do not, assume that you have the right to pick and choose what is appropriate for the rest of us.

I happen to write vampire novel's for this site, and in them, there is of course going to be snuff, I mean what blood sucking night walking story is complete without one or two death's? And if you don't want to read them, that won't hurt me. I happen to believe in freedom of speech and expression. Most assuredly in this type forum.

So if you don't want to read any snuff works, then just check out the code's and skip them.


V. L. Marquette.

OK, so how about paedophilia (or pedophilia)?

Snuff is one thing, but pedophile, is a whole different ball of wax. I list it right up there with scatology, which is gross, and wrong. Incest, I deal with in the books I write all the time, once again, dealing with vampire's it sort of comes with the territory, much like snuff. But children and sex, no, just not for me. Now, I am not condoning censorship here, but once again, that is why we have story code's. If one of the character's in the story is under say 13, that is pedophile, and should be listed as such. That way those of us who do not want to deal with that kind of material just skip right over it.


V. L. Marquette. (Ronnie)

Ok, so here comes the issue of pedophile. Strictly speaking, stories containing any character under 18 is pedophile. But as stories or fantasies, teenage sex may not be offensive to many readers. So here the line is a bit blurred. Normally, we draw the line at 12-year-old in case of fictions. The story codes is one way to tell readers what's going on in a story. So if anyone see any story contains character(s) 12 or younger and it doesn't have the code "Pedophilia", please be sure to let me know and indicate where it is in the story. Thank you very much!

Jinn

Marquette, I wouldn't classify a vampire story as snuff. Lots of people get killed in Stephen King or Anne Rice books, but they are not snuff.

Snuff is killing someone for sexual titillation. I don't like it and while I'm against censorship; I would like to see some more kinder gentler stories posted. It's a drag seeing new stories posted, but then finding out they are about cannibals and other things that make me want to vomit. It ruins the mood.

Okay, so you are right. I suppose I need to make sure that no other things I publish on this site, has the term snuff in the codes. As all the killings I have ever done in any of my work was not for sexual gratification. And as for cannibalism, that is about as nasty as it gets.



Ronnie.

Just one more thing, and I will stop. As for the want of a gentler read, I happen to agree with that. I am as turned off as you are I am sure when all I see is cardboard characters, going through the same motions, over and over. That was one of the reasons I got into writing erotica to begin with. This was almost 9 years ago, long before this site. When all the erotica out there was take tab A insert it into slot B, or C, depending on the tastes of the reader, often. There was no plots, no story lines worth mentioning and all the characters were strictly one demential. This site is a godsend, it allows those of us who are/were, tired of mainstream adult paper backs a chance to open a whole new reality.


Ronnie

i wish to comment on the post to *remove* snuff stories. while Master and i are not into that, i must say that removing them from the site would be unfair to M/many. W/we cannot control nor do W/we wish to make choices for O/others. some of the choices W/we make as Master/slave or S/soulmates, O/others may not find attractive either, but, W/we are free to explore, learn and love in O/our own lives. by simply not reading what does not interest U/us, W/we return again and again as satisfied M/members of this community.

kimberly{P}
Paul~k

Last year I saw a film that glorified the person that

1) Removed somebody's gut's while he was still alive, then hung him.
2) Fed a person to pigs
3) Cooked a guy's brains while the victim was still alive.

and most sickeningly of all...
4) was attracted to Juliette Lewis

'Hannibal' was seen and salaciously enjoyed by many millions of ordinary people, (although not me).

I don't often enjoy films that glory in the deaths of innocent people particularly when they are presented as mainstream entertainment.

At least here we recognise that it represents a dark side of human sexuality instead of mass entertainment.

'Sexy death' stories are sometimes highly imaginative because they are so absurd. Aiken is one author that comes to mind. The artwork of Dolcett is likewise highly erotic and enjoyable despite the snuff (or roast) content.

So why we should get all 'hung up' on snuff stories on this site?

I say 'Live and Let Live' ;-)

Marcus

Everyone's tastes are different and the clear labeling of stories means people can choose whether to read stories containing snuff or not. To remove them as many other people have alredy said would infringe on freedom of speech.
I also think there is a clear divide between the fantasy in the stoires and reality what might be considered erotic in a story by someone might be considered horrific in reality. There is a big difference there and fantasy is where anything can be safely considered. If these stories were deleted it wouldn't stop people having the ideas and writing them. People have the choice whether to read them or not and are unlikely to read what is clearly what they don't want to see.
As with all the other things mentioned.. paedophilia and scat for example make me personally feel a little sick to think about, but I don't think they should be removed.

Firstly, welcome to the forum!

It's hardly Piccadilly Circus around here but in recent times the contributors are rational, intelligent and courteous.

I'm glad to report that most people here agree with your liberal view and have the ability to separate fantasy from reality.

I agree totally with your last comment!

Regards
M

Quote:

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Originally posted by Dragonfly
Everyone's tastes are different and the clear labeling of stories means people can choose whether to read stories containing snuff or not. To remove them as many other people have alredy said would infringe on freedom of speech.
I also think there is a clear divide between the fantasy in the stoires and reality what might be considered erotic in a story by someone might be considered horrific in reality. There is a big difference there and fantasy is where anything can be safely considered. If these stories were deleted it wouldn't stop people having the ideas and writing them. People have the choice whether to read them or not and are unlikely to read what is clearly what they don't want to see.
As with all the other things mentioned.. paedophilia and scat for example make me personally feel a little sick to think about, but I don't think they should be removed.

---

Welcome aboard! And you got good point there. That's why the codes exist: they tell readers what's in the stories.

Well, so much of what is written will not appeal to everyone. Luckily, the site owners have those handy little codes posted to let you know the content of what you are about to immerse yourself in.
If you don't like the subject matter (and I don't like snuff either) please don't read it. If anyone starts deleting stories that offend them, then ANY topic is now a target.
How fun would this site be if it was politically correct? It'd be as boring as the family channel.
To guarantee me being able to read the stories that I like, I have to vote to leave the snuff stories in. Luckily most of the writers of that type of story rarely ever leave the basements of their mother's homes where they all have been living their 40-some odd years. On the plus side, though, these people have memorized all the scripts of all the original episodes of Star Trek.

Wow. What an interesting subject. I like almost all of the comments I've read regarding the topic, including the ones I disagree with. As a writer, I am leaning towards the anti-censorship argument simply because I don't think that responsible adults should need to be told what to do and what to not do. Personally, I can't find the eroticism in death (or even beatings intended to hurt the "victim") but I certainly write rape stories. If they are not intended to hurt the "victim", they're not rape stories, are they?

When I first saw this site, I thought of it as a perfect site: a place where someone is actively reading and approving ALL posts; a place where all sorts of likes and dislikes are allowed but coded for everyone's convenience; and a place where it's safe to say what you think about the posts without bruised feelings or nasty threats about honest comments. Then I saw the pedophilia code and froze. The first thing that went through my head was 'I bet that link is monitored 24/7 by every law enforcement agency in the world! Clicking on it (or posting anything with that code) would mean midnight pounding on your front door, impounded computers, and jail time while your name is dragged through the mud. Great way to catch real animals, isn't it?' Honestly, I was curious to see what is considered so dreadfully abhorrent. After all, "Lolita" was banned but seems pretty tame now. But that fear of getting either hooked into liking the stories or getting caught with a telltale cookie in my computer won out. Foolish? Probably. Prudent? Also probably.

Snuff stories are in the same category in my mind. They go places I don't even want to dream about going, certainly not fantasize about. But there seem to be some people who enjoy them and, ultimately, I don't feel I have the right to stop them. Someone mentioned scatological stories as "wrong" and I laughed out loud. Sure, they are "wrong" for that reader/writer. But are they "wrong" for everyone? I don't think so.

So I have to go with allowing something I hate to protect something I love. As a black and a member of the ACLU, I am getting used to fighting for things I personally despise! And as a writer for this and other sites, I will post my work right next to works with sexual practices I neither understand nor approve of. And I will continue to do so and regard maintaining choice for responsible adults as a much greater good.

Peace.

PS Will I click on the pedophilia link? Are you kidding? LOL!

LaJan got a good point on that a responsible adult should know what he want to read or not. I want to emphasize it's READ. If you couldn't even think (for authors) or read (for readers), what freedom are we talking about? You can't punish someone for what he thinks, can you!

Underage sex, violence and people who enjoyed these activities are all over the places in the mainstream media: news, books, movies, etc.. So we shouldn't worry about to be arrested for what we think/read.

Well, to be honest, I do worry about it. If someday there were a law to forbid to think anything 'inappropriate', we would be all in trouble and this site would be closed for sure. Although this may not be happening, I can see some tendency toward that direction.

So when we are talking about our own freedom, please think if we give freedom to others.

Jinn

BACK ON SNUFF AGAIN.

I was wrong, originally, when I had stated that my work was snuff. Oh the old def. of snuff is to kill, much like to wipe out. It became popular in the early to mid 1920s. Now it is a word that is connected to stories and movies that make an attempt to make murder sexy.

Now as for your quip about people that write these sorts of things having lived their 40+ years in their mother's basement, and knowing all the words to all the original Star Trek by heart. That is slanderous to those of us who do know and love Star Trek, and trust me, I have not lived in my mother's house since I was 16.

Ronnie

i work part time at the SFL, now, there, they have twice annual BBQ's where agps, like myself, are spitted and roasted.
Now, i was brought up to accept this as natural and when i become no further use as a hu-cow, i shall, no-doubt, be sent to the Abattoir. However, i had a choice. Either to spend a few extra years in good pasture and be a providor of milk, finally to be used as pet food, or to be BBQ'd at my 18th birthday and be BBQ'd alive for the palets of the other members of the SFL. Looking back, i envy the ones that many 'ooohhh'd!' and 'arrrr'd!' about, especially as with the friends i have, i would have been able to taste a part of my rump before passing out.

However my Fantasy takes me, i can do and write in appropiate places about/ or read. But in NO WAY would i like this to happen for real.!!!!

(well... maybe not .. [smiles])


bon appetite

Marquette,
I also think that Vampire erotica is NOT snuff. Whatever killings that happen in your stories are part of the plot and are NOT murders for sexual excitement. In the movies today there are many cold blooded murders depicted including rapes and murders, but they are not called snuff. In my understanding the idea of snuff is when there is no real plot, but only depiction of torture and murder for sexual excitement. I hope I am making sense, 'cause it's a very hard topic to describe and categorize. As far as I am concerned, there is nothing erotic about cold blooded murder. Sexual or not murder is still a murder to me.

Thank Venus for the explanation of snuff. My understanding to this code is about the same. And agp_millie gave us a good example of snuff. Thank you both :)

no problem just thought to contribute a little. :)

Why should the VAST majority in this Planet have to suffer for the tiny minority?

i have enjoyed playing on this old pc. for several years and can, ok, possibly live in fantasy, but turn off anything i don't like!
It's quite easy, must be, because i can do it and i'm dumb.

So what is wrong with everyone expressing ideas, desires, even extreme, (What is Extreme?)

In my happy ignorance, i really enjoy the Net. and have never found a threat worse than Yahoo, ICQ, MSN, etc. (mucking this old pc machine, shoved in a corner of my kitchen), doing Their horrible thing with me. Naturally, it's not unreasonable to NOT accept under mature age for anything .. but after that .. it's all so funny .. if you saw the number of funny penises i've seen on guys cams, then you'll know it's gotta be fun.

mmmm ( i wish it was Research Trials, but that is beyond them)


xxx
millie

ps. ignore that strange person looking thru here, he'll go to bed soon.

Erm...they are just stories, people. The crux of this argument seems to have shifted to questions of 'taste' when the debate should be whether posting a story here could be 'harmful' in that they might inspire someone to go out and commit these acts/crimes. If you believe the latter then probably 90% of the stories on this site should be banned. Also half the maistream novels and movies out there...

Snuff? Well, VLMarquette, your stories might not eroticise vampire snuff but the mainstream novels of Anne Rice certainly do! In 'Interview with the Vampire' (both movie and book) a young girl is slowly stripped naked at the Theatre des Vampires before a swarm of vampires fall upon her body to take all her blood...

agp_millie makes a good point about the 'spitting and roasting' genre being a highly erotic fantasy to many people (I assume she also refers to the stories on this site by 'Pick Up Man')

Paedophilia? At the story submission stage on this site there is a message not to submit 'child porn'. Can the site owners or anyone else please define 'child porn' as none is given. Some of the definitions in this thread even disagree. Stories involving under-12s? Under-13s? Under-18s? (In an erotic situation). In my country, sex with an under-16yo is illegal - perhaps its different in YOUR country so what are the accepted standards? Can mere fantasy stories be 'child porn'? Again, in my country 'child porn' must involve a real victim either through direct abuse or indirectly by downloading photos. Stories don't have an apparent actual victim but maybe you can tell me differently. Again, by some peoples standards, many of the stories that ARE posted here involve minors in a sexual situation - some of the most highly-rated stories in fact (eg Jane Marwood, katie lynch etc). So why were they accepted?

As far as I'm concerned these are just STORIES for adults so 'anything goes' as long as they are clearly coded.

Went from Snuff to Paedophilia

Tight:

LOLL, I swear, go from one point to another in one shot. Thank you for agreeing with me that, even though there is death in my work, it is not snuff.

Now as for Pedophile, I live in a State that the age is pretty much solid. It is Pedophile, to have sexual relationships with a child under the age of 14. So it does not seem so strange that the youngest age in my state that a teen can wed is 14. So the stories that list teen in their codes are okay with me, matter of fact I have written a few of them. But it is under the age of 13, when a child is not a teen that is just not cool with me, so I do what every other intelligent reader on this site does. I see a code that I just do not wish to read about, I don't. I thought that was why the story codes were put into play to begin with. To offer those who read from the stories offered a choice in what they would and would not want to read.




Ronnie

I thought you all might be interested in a Fantasy Cyber that took place recently, with me and the Doctor BBQ, the Sexperimental Farm Laboratory's Chef.
(smile)
This is my Yahoo IM nic. of 'daisy mooe'

...
Part two was a few days later.
Wouldn't be too happy if it happened for real. But was a great Fantasy Cyber .. for me, anyway.

Righteous:

Cheers for the reply, VLM :) Confused? Ermm...I was only responding to issues that had already been raised on this thread. 'Snuff' and 'Paedophilia' had already been linked here as controversial or 'squicky' story topics. In fact I already read another poster 'go from one point to another in one shot' and stick in 'scat' for good measure :) :

Quote VLMarquette:
'Snuff is one thing, but pedophile, is a whole different ball of wax. I list it right up there with scatology, which is gross, and wrong. Incest, I deal with in the books I write all the time, once again, dealing with vampire's it sort of comes with the territory, much like snuff'

Well good for you. But have you thought that some people might regard the stuff you write as 'gross'?? First you say your stories touch on snuff then you say they don't. Actually I love your 'Dark Love' series and I would still like to know what you think of Anne Rice's erotic snuff scenes...

The point I'm trying to make is what you think is 'gross and wrong' others might not. What you think is OK, others may consider 'gross'. Sex with a 14year-old is OK where you live and you admit writing stories about it but in large portions of the world it would be considered paedophilia. Get my drift?

I'm not being judgemental or attacking anyone - I'm just looking for answers in what seems a confused subject. Reason? I'm writing a couple of stories that involve 14-16 year-olds and I'm not sure whether to post them here.

Personal opinion; I think the message about not posting 'child porn' should be removed from the story submission page. Child porn involves actual abuse of a real person; not a story. The 'pedophile' story class should be scrapped and replaced with 'pre-teen'. Then we all know where we are.

Good luck.

T

PS, thanks for the kinda wonderful stream-of-consciousness cyber stuff, agp_millie

*smiles* as she steps out of her lil shell

I am a clinical Social Worker, and would just like to go on record as defining pedophila

It is sex with a child under the age of 12!

Sex under the age of 16 is statutory rape, since it can be consensual but the law says it is irrelevant wether it is concensual or not.

Hope that clears things up a bit...

veru skjava

Okay, I just joined in, but I've been in thå BDSM circle for over 2 decades now. One of the things I like is hunt around in North America for BDSM party. In one of the party I went to in another city, the host was kind enough to provide a speech at the end of the party, more of a get together speech, and surprisingly, I learned something that I never forget and it's quite useful.

He said "make sure you don't express the opinion of 'Your kink is not my kink'", he went on and said "everyone has their own set of kinky fantasies, it is important that even we don't understand why some other's kink and fantasies is a turn-on, we have to respect it and keep the opinion to ourselves."

I don't like snuff stories neither, but if it is a fantasy, there is nothing wrong with it. I have heard a real story, however, from this radio show, "Rhona At Night", and this girl called in & said she only gets turn on by someone choking her by the throat. My guess is, due to the nature of the way a person's heart functions, the orgasm is more intense if she is being choked. Clearly it is a dangerous game. But there is a circle of that kind of kink around.

I think we are rapidly moving away from Snuff and going on to other things.

Taisho:

First, when I said that in regard to DL, I was under the impression that snuff still meant what it meant in the 1920's, and not the glorified attempt to make murder sexy. And although in my state 14 is legal to have sex, if you read both of my BAC works, teem sex for a boy begins at 15 and for a young lady at 16.

And I still stand by my statement, that even though, I do not like many of the stories I see here, it all comes down to the fact and truth that unless we wish censorship to dictate our lives and thoughts. The approve or no, all things when written in fantasy must be allowed.


V.L. Marquette.

I agree, VLMarquette. My philosphy on all things (well most things) is if you don't like it, don't look. The descriptions of the works tells exacly what is contained in the story. Read them. If you don't think that the content is for you, don§t read it. However, if you don't agree with what is written, that doesn't mean that what is there should be denied to others that are interested in it.

Granted, snuff and stuff are not my bag of tricks, but who knows, perhaps I may get curious enough one of these days. I just don't feel censorship is warranted. I will repeat, if you don't like what the sotry contains...don't read it. Simple as that.

Sounds like most of us are in agreement then!

Good Luck :)

T

please keep them. i don;t like all of them but the ones that i do, i like them very much. it almopst sounds like Tipper Gore is tring to get into the group. :0