How to punish a masochist?

Considering that my Dashi is going to be here in a couple of days, I'm hoping to generate some ideas of how to punish a masochist for when she's bad, lol.

I've found that the traditional methods dont work... flogging gets a lustful "please more sir" as does most every other method of pain infliction. I've used orgasm denial, but she's even trumped that by acknowledging that she likes the control i have and the eventual orgasm she gets.

Defilement/humiliation doesnt work..the bitch likes that too, lol.

Nipple clamps have the desired affect, but i cant help but think that she'll grow to accept that over time also.

"Freakin masochists"
Any suggestions are appreciated, lol.

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Originally Posted by shins

Considering that my Dashi is going to be here in a couple of days, I'm hoping to generate some ideas of how to punish a masochist for when she's bad, lol.

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For REAL punishment...ignore her. Do nothing. That'll teach her!

Well, Uncle_Ed beat me to this, but I was thinking more of...oh, I don't know...a trip to the spa maybe? :D

Oh, and just so everyone knows...my Master is completely kidding about wanting to punish me. I'm a complete angel (hence the first part of my screen name) and never do anything to warrant punishment. :rolleyes:

No one else need reply to this thread. *grins*

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Originally Posted by angelfreak

Well, Uncle_Ed beat me to this, but I was thinking more of...oh, I don't know...a trip to the spa maybe? :D

Oh, and just so everyone knows...my Master is completely kidding about wanting to punish me. I'm a complete angel (hence the first part of my screen name) and never do anything to warrant punishment. :rolleyes:

No one else need reply to this thread. *grins*

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See what I mean?!?!?:icon176: Help. please help, lol.

I understand and appreciate your words, uncle ed...but how can i ignore that? :)

Slowly remove priveledges, like deny her access to BDSMLibrary

The punishment will be on you too, since you are the one straining to manage to ignore her. Is that what your sub wants? her Master being in agony? Maybe letting her in on how hard its for you will make her behave.
I would not like to dissapoint my Master. Thats a horrible feeling and experience, and sure holds my behaviour in place.

Impose some positions she must assume. Some will make her feel submissive and good, some will put her in the mood for sex, for play, mindful and expectant for discipline/punishment... and some will remind her how she has displeased you. (It's an amusing pasttime regardless which I heartily endorse. I make my submissive practice positions nightly. For online play, it puts me squarely in their mind. For real life, it puts them in a position for my physical pleasure... whether it's to be play, discipline, punishment, or plain old-fashioned hard sex.)

Some positions, additionally, will be very difficult for her to maintain. There are some which strain the muscles after mere moments. Those are good as punishing time-outs.

Then there is the fact that punishments such as flogging, single-whips, and even the cane, can become excruciating without being physically damaging... for example, think triple-digit floggings. It's time consuming but may pay off dividends once angel realizes you're willing to spend the time to do it.

"Slowly remove priveledges, like deny her access to BDSMLibrary"

Okay when I first read that I had a chuckle, but assuming she enjoys this place, its actually not a bad idea at all.

There's also the realm of the "boring task" as punishment. Sit in the corner for "time out". Make her write lines (somewhere away from fun things like Ipods, TV, and the internet). Its boring. Its not fun. That's the point, as two examples.

If all else fails you could always force her to listen to Paris Hilton's CD on "repeat" until she apologizes. But even masochists have limits to what they can endure. ;)

" 'I know music,' she reassured the Sunday Times children's section. 'I hear it every single day.' While this obviously gives Hilton a massive advantage over those who have never heard any music and thus believe it to be a variety of cheese, there remains the nagging suspicion that this might not represent sufficient qualification for a career as a singer, in much the same way as knowing what a child is does not fully equip you for a career as a consultant paediatrician... Listening to her sing Rod Stewart's Do Ya Think I'm Sexy, you are gripped by the fear that civilisation as we know it is doomed and that brimstone is going to start raining from the sky any minute."

-Ripped from a review of her "efforts".

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Originally Posted by Timberwolf

There's also the realm of the "boring task" as punishment. Sit in the corner for "time out". Make her write lines (somewhere away from fun things like Ipods, TV, and the internet). Its boring. Its not fun. That's the point, as two examples.

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I think that's the best suggestion. A punishment shouldn't be pleasant, and "ignorning" her is (in my opinion) either abuse or just asking for attention-seeking trouble!

We'll save Paris Hilton for when we catch Osama.

Q

I've seriously been thinking about using "bad music" as a punishment device. If you know your sub well enough to know that you've got something lying around that they just HATE (be it a genre or a specific band)... why not force them to listen to it. Over and over, as punishment.

I don't know about everyone else, but that would definitely work on me.

Seriously, though...y'all can stop giving my Master ideas. :)

Well the first thing I'd do is stop her posting in this thread! :eek:

Geez.

This sounds like the basis of all D/s relationships- who's in charge?

To me that's more important than how to punish someone. I personally very rarely use any punishment, apart from disapproval or showing disappointment.


Tojo

Great ideas, but shins, please be aware that some of these more psychological approaches will cut deep, and should never be used as part of play.

A sub is very dependant upon her Dom, and she will feel completely broken if she does not 'feel' as opposed to just 'know' that you still love and care for her, and it is her behaviour and not her which you disapprove of. Don’t rely on the fact that she must know it because of x, y and z; at such times she is likely to be aware so acutely of how much you mean to her and there will be voices inside her head saying that you are rejecting her.

Please make sure there is clear closure after the event, otherwise it can be damaging to your relationship.

cariad

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Originally Posted by Tojo

I personally very rarely use any punishment, apart from disapproval or showing disappointment.

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Please, any Dom's reading this - in my opinion this is the punishment which works the best, at least for me, but please be gentle, and lots of tlc afterwards.

cariad

An excellent point cariad- I'm constantly aware that I need to be gentle with lisa. She's young & very devoted to what we do.

It's important to know the difference between fun & psychological abuse, it varies with the individual.

Aftercare is most important too- a sub is to be treasured always.

(this is just a general comment shins, not talking to you- I think miss Dashi probably gets treated pretty well)


Tojo

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Originally Posted by cariad(CC)

Great ideas, but shins, please be aware that some of these more psychological approaches will cut deep, and should never be used as part of play.

A sub is very dependant upon her Dom, and she will feel completely broken if she does not 'feel' as opposed to just 'know' that you still love and care for her, and it is her behaviour and not her which you disapprove of. Don’t rely on the fact that she must know it because of x, y and z; at such times she is likely to be aware so acutely of how much you mean to her and there will be voices inside her head saying that you are rejecting her.

Please make sure there is clear closure after the event, otherwise it can be damaging to your relationship.

cariad

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Which is why... it sometimes pays to show her you care enough to spend the time it takes to really give her a really sore ass.... :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Ozme52

Which is why... it sometimes pays to show her you care enough to spend the time it takes to really give her a really sore ass.... :rolleyes:

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:bdsmsmile

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Originally Posted by Timberwolf

" 'I know music,' she reassured the Sunday Times children's section. 'I hear it every single day.' While this obviously gives Hilton a massive advantage over those who have never heard any music and thus believe it to be a variety of cheese, there remains the nagging suspicion that this might not represent sufficient qualification for a career as a singer, in much the same way as knowing what a child is does not fully equip you for a career as a consultant paediatrician... Listening to her sing Rod Stewart's Do Ya Think I'm Sexy, you are gripped by the fear that civilisation as we know it is doomed and that brimstone is going to start raining from the sky any minute."

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Roflmfao

Sorry all for not responding to the thread and your posts. For some reason, I haven't been able to log onto the forums since around 1pm eastern yesterday. I keep getting that evil white page of death 'page cannot be found'. So I'm having Dashi post my reponse.

As a good subbie understanding my login problem, I found an email from her with all your responses this morning. I didnt even ask her to do it. :) Thanks to everyone for your carefully thought out suggestions. All of them have merit, and most will be applied during our time together. With that being said, I'd like to clarify something at the risk of rotten tomatoes being tossed my way ;). I had a few reasons for making this post:

1. This really is a dilema in some people's minds. I've seen the frustration from Dom's dealing with masochists and their 'punishments' in other forums, journals, etc. I searched our forums and didnt find any substantial content on this subject.

2. I am curious as to how others 'handle' their submissives, and I wanted to build my arsenal abit considering the 24/7 lifestyle that i'm jumping into.

3. "ducking and dodging rotten tomatoes" The forums have been 'dry' for the past couple of days, and I wanted to present a fresh topic that would give people something to reply to. :)

4. The whole thread was entertaining because it resulted in a playful/humorous "mindfuck" for Dashi. I told her to keep up with it, and it established an anticipation/dread that I might utilize the suggestions. It was kinda like hearing the jury of her peers imposing her 'sentence', lol.

Now one thing has resulted from this that I didnt anticipate. I talked to Dashi on the phone last night, and she is distressed that everyone's perception of her is that she's an unruly submissive who frequently tops from the bottom and is disrepectful of me and her role as a submissive. THIS COULDNT BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH :). Dashi is very serious about being a submissive, and she rarely deserves punishment. Like several have mentioned, on the rare occasion that it happens, my disappointment in her is worse than 1000 lashes. While I haven't gotten a single tear from her physical discipline, she's cried a river before, knowing that she's disappointed me.

As far as her posting on this thread, she did so because I told her to do it. She hadn't even considered it, at least openly. I told her to post a 'playful' response so that:

1. It would fuel the fire for responses to the thread... *too slow on the dodge and I catch a rotten tomato square in the face*, lol

2. That through this thread, I hope that you have gained insight to the sometimes playful dynamic of mine and dashi's relationship. I've been slightly concerned that through our other posts, this part of our relationship is missing. You all are our kink family afterall... hopefully you understand us a little better now :)

Finally, thank you all sooo much for your responses. Lots of good material to work with in the future, either in general fun while we play, or on the rare occasion that Dashi's imp comes out to play and she needs to be put back in her place, lol.

Special thanks to:

Oz. Muhahahaha... your static position methods will certainly be implemented into our routines while we adjust to living together. :) Dashi cringed when she heard my sadistic laughter at your response.

Cariad and Tojo. For reaffirming my belief that pyscological/emotional is very affective, but improper usage can be more damaging and abusive than 10k lashes.

Timberwolf. For the variety of methods that you volunteered...now to get a copy of Paris Hilton without actually spending money on it... lol.

Thanks for the update guys- we don't get enough of this sort of thing, which is after all the 'meat in the D/s sandwich'

I've actually been toying with a punishment for lisa this week, but it seems just talking to her is enough keep her on track.

The problem is she's in limbo for a few weeks until school starts. She can't even really start a fulltime job. She's bored, has no money & really no life.

She's been playing an online game for hours at a time & been a little lazy some days.

I said I will punish her if all else fails, sort of thing- but didn't tell her how.
I also said I'd hate to do it & that she means a lot to me.

I found by just 'sitting down' & talking to her, being honest about my expectations & fears drew her attention to her behaviour.

This is so great this stuff- I get a ridiculous amount of pleasure just chatting with her, getting her pics & putting her desktop on the PC when my wife's asleep....:rolleyes:

Each D/s relationship is different & unique, it's great to see when someone has the courage to talk about theirs.


Tojo

Always glad to help shins.

i'll be showing this thread to my Dom....He's been haveing the same issues.....i'm a huge painslut and a brat in the sense i've been to known to purposefully push His buttons to get Him to punish me....

But sense i'm coming from the subs position on this.....Timberwolf's suggestion of doing menial task is in my mind, absolutely perfect.

i still remember the first time i got actually punished. or rather, thoroughly punished. i was given a list of chores and i flat out didnt do them, in order to test my Dom's reaction. He has a bad habit of not punishing me at all and i wanted to see if He would.

well i imgained Him coming home, getting all angry, yelling, bending me over His knee and spanking my little ass raw......needless to say i walked around in a erotic euphoria all day at this thought.

But instead He came home, looked at the messy house, and proceeded to flat out ignore me while He went about changing out of His uniform and so on. i pouted and danced about, trying to gain attention. it was driving me up the wall!!!

So He sits down on the couch and turns on the TV, never saying a word, never looking at me. i drop onto the couch next to Him. and proceed to stare at Him, i posture and sigh and do all the sort of bratty "pay attention to me" things.

He still ignores me. Then after about ten minutes He turns to me and gives such a intense look of disapproval it made me want to fall to my knees and beg for forgiveness. But instead i smirked.

He calmly explained to me how disappointed He was in me, how this was in no way showing my desire to submit and how much He hates haveing to punish me. By the end of His chastisment i really wanted to crawl on the floor. i felt horrible for disappointing Him so.

i opened my mouth to start my profuse apologies but He simply held up one finger for silence. He then told me my punishment. i was to sit in a closet, in the dark, for one hour.i'm terribly afraid of the dark. After the first hour He would turn on the closet light, and hand me paper and pen. i was then to write a four page essay on the meaning of submission. i wouldn't be allowed to talk the entire time, go to the bathroom, and i was too be naked on the cold floor. also, after my punishment He refused to play with me in anyway. i'm very playful, so it was torture to go about, making dinner and whatnot, and not be allowed to dance and tease. He also made me sleep on the floor, away from Him.

let me tell you, i was an angel for a LONG time after that. in fact, i can honestly say i havent done anything bad enough since to earn such a punishment again.plus i was the definition of submission the next day, He could have asked ANYTHING of me and i would have more than willing done it, just to fully please Him.

so not that i, as a submissive, wanted to intrude here, but i thought maybe You'd appreciate a similar sub's point of view on this.....

Oh my God, psynymph...this would have been enough to show me my place forever! *shudders and remembers to learn where the line between teasing and being bratty is*

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Originally Posted by Silke

*shudders and remembers to learn where the line between teasing and being bratty is*

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Giggles! There's a first time for everything, Silke.

Sorry, couldn't resist. I know you're a wonderful gal, honest. Cuddles.

Q xx

Lol, Qmoq...good to know you're so sure about that 'wonderful' business. You only know one side of me, though. ;)

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Originally Posted by Timberwolf

I've seriously been thinking about using "bad music" as a punishment device. If you know your sub well enough to know that you've got something lying around that they just HATE (be it a genre or a specific band)... why not force them to listen to it. Over and over, as punishment.

I don't know about everyone else, but that would definitely work on me.

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Not trying to attack Timberwolf or the concept but it Sounds a bit clockwork orange to me really. I tried it once, but realised it was a bit phycologically (Spelling!) dammaging. anything closely resembling the chosen song, or any time the song appeared on the radio became punishment, even when there was no reference to a crime.

I feel music is an art to be enjoyed. anyway, sorry if I was a bit heavy handed, just trying to be helpful.

My two cents, from a switchy gal who has a sub who likes to top from the bottom...:rolleyes: sometimes...:rolleyes:

Physical punishment for him is a reward. Putting him on cd or making him wank until his dick falls off is a reward.

One thing that worked for sure, was making him stand silently in the corner for 20 min. He couldn't do 10. So, he whined and wanted an alternative punishment.

Of course, I clucked and was the understanding mistress, but, I gave the bitch a choice, 30 min. in the corner or write a 500 word essay on any topic I wanted. :)

*gg*

"but it Sounds a bit clockwork orange to me really."

Lol, I suppose it does, yes.

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Originally Posted by nikita

Of course, I clucked and was the understanding mistress, but, I gave the bitch a choice, 30 min. in the corner or write a 500 word essay on any topic I wanted. :)

*gg*

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The essay, one of my favorite punishments. So is having someone sit still and be quiet.

Taking away privileges, for a set period of time, also works well.

A punishment isn't fun nor exciting, and it yet, it shouldn't be abusive either.

For example, having a sub who's afraid of the dark, sit alone in the dark, can be considered a cruel mind fuck. It can trigger responses that neither dom or sub wanted.

Withholding food or water, keeping someone from and/or going to the bathroom -- all of those can be considered over the line punishments.

If any dom or domme feels they must actually punish their submissive, I would ask that they not do so in anger and consider what it is they hope to achieve.

Ruby

I used to think the way to punish a confessed masochist (to impress on the other that you're the one in power) were to make sure the level of pain gets in the overkill lane in relation to the "crime" and keep jacking up that level, at least change the level ("even if you're obedient to me you're not obedient enuff, bitch") but it's not that simple...And if you actually want to change the behaviour of the sub (make her stop smoking) that wouldn't be the good way. Writing an essay sounds better.

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Originally Posted by Ruby

The essay, one of my favorite punishments. So is having someone sit still and be quiet.

Taking away privileges, for a set period of time, also works well.

Withholding food or water, keeping someone from and/or going to the bathroom -- all of those can be considered over the line punishments.

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I agree, the essay and taking away privileges are both good punishments. But actually I think withholding (or even just limiting how much) food/water works quite well too, especially if the sub loooves eating. Being told what time you can eat again makes you even more hungry, as you look forward to it and it seems so far away. And if your dom/me eats in front of you… that’s just cruel lol.

I believe my sub borders on masochism, however, he won't tell me. I have noticed that he does not wince when the whippings get more intense so what I have done to punish him is to not start out easy and work up to a flogging but go straight to the heavy artillery and occassionally direct the blows to a more sensitive place. I know he does not like not being able to reach the sub zone. When he begs forgiveness is when I will sooth the welts and start him over again for his and my pleasures. I in no way ever draw blood. That is one of my hard limits.

Thank you all for the continued comments. I made some changes to my internet, had trouble during the site server swap, and have otherwise been "busy" now that angel is here. :)

For an update, I've found that I know longer need to call her "dashi". It was a name given to her, because of the neverending "excuses" I received from her before she lived with me. The presence of her family impacted her ability to serve properly before she moved in with me, but now, she has no excuses >:). I'm also pleased to announce that she has given very little reason to be punished since she has been here. Perhaps because of this thread and the fact that I can "reach out and touch her now"...

After living with her 24/7 for a couple of weeks, I have found a few special ways to keep her in line. Tone of voice is everything in our dynamic. If I'm being playful/gentle with her, she responds accordingly. If I'm being stern and demanding, she strives to please to the best of her ability. As far as physical discipline and her masochism goes, I've figured out that she perceives "happy pain" and "I'm in trouble pain" much differently. It's all in the communication and the purpose of the discipline. If I tell her "You've been bad and what we're doing is to make up for that", she gets no enjoyment out of it, and it serves as intended. I've also learned that different toys/tools generate a much different reaction on her part. She enjoys the warming affect of the chain flogger as it covers and reddens large areas of skin. However, she wants to run or crumple into the fetal position attempting to hide from the sting of the tiny leather flogger. So in short, after exposure to the tiny leather flogger, if she acts out, I can simply hold it in my hand and let her see it, and I instantly have the perfect submissive, lol.

We are having a great time, and both of us are glad that she has moved in with me. We'll keep everyone updated as time goes on. :)

shins - Glad to hear things are working out for you. Enjoy and cherrish her, and she will remain the jewl you see. Remember to never take her for granted. Of couse I am sure you know this.

Enjoy, and I look forward to hearing more from you

V/R
ID

Ooooohh, sounds like you're having fun alright! *grins* I'm happy things are going great for the two of you and hope you'll keep us updated. :)

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Originally Posted by IDCrewDawg

shins - Glad to hear things are working out for you. Enjoy and cherrish her, and she will remain the jewl you see. Remember to never take her for granted. Of couse I am sure you know this.

Enjoy, and I look forward to hearing more from you

V/R
ID

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Aye, she is certainly a jewel and deserves to be cherished. :)

a jewel W/we will cut and shape to perfection, hehe :D

but yes she is quite fun! ;)

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Originally Posted by Psynymph

a jewel W/we will cut and shape to perfection, hehe :D

but yes she is quite fun! ;)

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LOL, angel is sitting next to me as she read your post, nymph. Talk about blushing ;) And yes, we will cut and shape her to perfection, kittykat.

Edited to fix the typos that were evident after the first cup of coffee.