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I was curious about something.
We all make mistakes, the curse of being human. If your Dom/me makes a mistake, do you feel awkward? And why?
As a Master I believe that if I make a mistake I should apologize, and if I make a public mistake that apology should be public. I would like to know what the general consensus of subs/slaves on this issue.
Rhabbi....Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhabbi
i can only speak for myself on this...
Mistakes do happen, and they don't make me feel awkward as long as they are openly discussed and resolved. i would rather have an honest conversation, with my Dom admitting a mistake (not that He ever makes one... grins) and U/us working together on a solution then for the mistake to not be acknowledged or even ignored.
Since the relationship is built on trust, and for me trust is built on respect it is very important for me to trust my Dom and that can only occur when He realizes that He is human and mistakes happen. When the topic is avoided or the blame deflected back to someone/something else and it is never discussed my respect for Him falters and in turn the trust i have in Him. (If that makes any sense at all...)
As to if a public mistake deserves a public apology... well that i am not so sure on...the acknowledgment (not even an apology) is more important then the location/venue it is in.
I don't get this infallible Dom thing. A man with so much pride it's comming out his ears. When I screw up I always apologise and do my best to make up for it. It doesn't have to mean groveling. Aknowledging the misstake, understanding her emotions and explaining how I feel about it and what I'll do to minimise it happening again is what I do.
One characteristic I do think is important for a good Dom is bravery, and that means an ability to critisize oneself in a constructive way. A man too proud to admit fault in a conflict is just a big coward.
*gets off soap-box*
I do not either, but to me it seems to come more from the Domme side than from us. Do not get me wrong, I know that they are out there, but I usually class them as abusers and stay away from them, because all they are are power freaks.Quote:
Originally Posted by TomOfSweden
But the Dommes who want to be called Goddess, they are differant. I guess the reason I cannot figure them is because I cannot relate on a personle level to a Domme, other than as a friend, that is.
I wonder thoigh, if a mistake is bad enough, should we grovel? Sometimes it might be the only way to show the depth of our anguish.Quote:
It doesn't have to mean groveling. Aknowledging the misstake, understanding her emotions and explaining how I feel about it and what I'll do to minimise it happening again is what I do.
Not the way I would say it, but definately to the point.Quote:
One characteristic I do think is important for a good Dom is bravery, and that means an ability to critisize oneself in a constructive way. A man too proud to admit fault in a conflict is just a big coward.
Exactly what I think also. I cannot go about knowing that I have done something wrong and not make amends.Quote:
Originally Posted by precious{TDS}
I understand, and I personallly thank you for the insight. My best guess to this is that Dom/mes should discuss the situation with their sub/slave and offer to make the apology public. In other words, it should be a mutual decision and a matter of mutual respect, right?Quote:
As to if a public mistake deserves a public apology... well that i am not so sure on...the acknowledgment (not even an apology) is more important then the location/venue it is in.
In my opinion yes... it should be mutual. If something happened that was such a huge mistake that He felt the need to apologies in public that is well and good and i would appreciate the fact He wanted to do that. But, depending on what it was... for me it might just be better to let it die quietly. There is nothing like trying to do the right thing and making the initial situation worse in that process.... Plus, if it is a mistake against me in public do W/we really want/need to keep rehashing O/our issues for the world to see?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhabbi
That is just my opinion... others may feel differently....
If the sub truly knows you then groveling shouldn't be a factor. You can state Your anguish without having to grovel and if the sub is looking for You to grovel my guess is there is a secondary issues in there somewhere that needs attention. And in some ways... i think groveling, especially at the incorrect times, can have as much of a negative effect on my respect level for someone as if they didn't admitting to the mistake to start with. Guess that would depend a large part on the sincerity of the initial apology and such... otherwise it would be a trust loss issue for me then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhabbi
Just me 2 cents worth again....
Once again, my thanks.
Your 2 cents is worth more than that to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by precious{TDS}
As a Domme I say sorry when i make a mistake ,so should the sub , but in no shape or form should we be called Goddess,I am not into power names although my sub does call me his Fair Lady, a name he gave to me.Subs groveling is not for me.
My apologies.
Did not mean to imply that this was common among Dommes, especially those here. But a quick search of Yahoo shows just how prevalent it is.
At a guess, alot of those names will come from women purely after cash.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhabbi
IMO grovelling tends to make the apology less sincere.
For me, it feels as though it's an attempt to win forgiveness quickly so that the situation can be forgotten about without having to truly face it and avoid a discussion.
Intersting prespective, not one I would have seen.Quote:
Originally Posted by pixie_dust
Thanks
What?? Doms make mistakes?????
*sobs*
Ok, seriously.... of course people make mistakes. I don't think it makes it awkward. I screw up almost constantly... so why would I hold anyone else (even my Dom) to a higher standard??
What I would have a problem with is if He did make a mistake about something... and he refused to apologize. Like he was above it or something. To me, that would damage the trust of our relationship, and certainly cause me to question His character.
I strongly believe that we come together as equals, and I choose to submit. The occasional apology for forgetting something, making an error in judgement, or stepping on my foot, doesn't change any of that.
I do have an issue with the whole grovelling thing. I believe in the power of forgiveness. I can't imagine myself ever requiring someone to grovel. If He did... then I would maybe have to re-evaluate our relationship, as I expect I would feel less secure in my role as a sub after that.
For me, any transgressions that would lead to grovelling, would more likely lead to me leaving the relationship entirely.
To me anyone who is willing to grovel isn't worth my time.
I view it as i do pouting or whining or tantrum throwing --
Somethings are just unacceptable on a individual basis for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomOfSweden
I pretty much agree with every word of this.
To expand on these thoughts, to me a big part of what my journey in the Lifestyle is about goes into the concept of true self acceptance. I think this applies to both Doms and subs. What I mean by true self acceptacne is, it's very easy to say "here are my good qualities" and give yourself praise for them, or express them to others. But there comes a point when you also have to say "here are my not so good parts, my dark little corners" and you have to learn to accept that, these too, are part of who you are. And if you are lucky, you find a partner that accepts all of those things as you, someone you can share *all* of that with and have it be okay.
We all make mistakes or have personality traits that can cause us strife from time to time, and any Top that claims they don't is obviously insulting the other person's intelligence. The key is just dealing with them maturely. How you deal with mistakes is probably far more important than *if* you make them.
I don't really have anything to contribute here, but I wanted to mention that I know a woman who likes being called "Goddess", but isn't a stuck-up bitch with pretensions of infallibility or anything of the sort. :)
I think it depends how the mistake is handled.
Of course, if it's ignored, that might make me feel like they didn't care and didn't value me as an equal person.
i would hope for a heartfelt acknowledgement and apology... but not with the repercussions that might accompany a mistake i, as a sub made... i mean i wouldn't want to or expect to punish my dominant...well... hmmm... payback now could be fun... :4:
i don't think it is a matter of "punishing" a Dominate who made a mistake (although that could be interesting... grinz). Just as it isn't a matter of groveling on the part of the Dominate. For me, the apology is important and needs to be sincere but the future handling of the "mistake" is what really speaks to me. If the mistake is one that is apologized for but yet no steps are taken to prevent the mistake from happening in the future that is when there is an issue to me. And i'm not saying that the "mistake" should never happen again. There are times it will happen, just hopefully not to the same extent, etc. as the previous time... it is more important for me to see that the Dominate is making an effort of growth/rebuilding for that mistake which tells me that my feelings were heard, understood and RESPECTED.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThisGirl
To me it all comes back to that... RESPECT. Once my respect for someone is gone there is no hope for that relationship any longer... i may love the person with my entire heart... but if i can't/don't respect them that damages every other aspect of the relationship....
Yes, I agree with you about the respect- taking care of a mistake would show that respect and caring to me- like you said making sure to do the best to prevent it from recurring.
Rspect means that I have to acknowledge my mistakes, it can be no other way. If I cannot do that, then I cannot resect myself.
I know this is an old thread but this just clicked with me. A significant part of my fascination with D/s is because it challenges both parties and makes them face their personal darkness and bring it into the light. This challenge to myself is part of drives me. One day I hope I can find a sub who will challenge me and accept what she finds in the dark cornersQuote:
Originally Posted by Timberwolf
DrGeordi,
What can anyone say to that but hurrah? I agree completely, and am actuall busy shining the light there myself.
Good morning all, as a newbie to the scene myself, I'm in no position to offer opinions, but isn't the whole grovelling thing part of what makes some subs the subs they are? If a dom/me were to grovel for any reason I can imagine that they'd lose the respect of the one who is their sub. And I apologize lily. You made some good points but they were hard to concentrate on with your avatar right next to the text. My eyes kept wandering. I must learn to train my eyeballs better. :)
I really thought I had put in a comment in this thread but I guess not.
I make mistakes, I don't compound the mistake by acting like it never happened. I do my best to make whoever I wronged know that I screwed up and that I truly regret it, I explain what I will do to fix or avoid the mistake in the future.
If the whoever is my sub/slave then if I expect to keep her respect and her pride of being mine this is even more important. To do less I think tells her she is not respected and that I have little pride in either of us.
Russell
a very interesting read..........
Interesting? Is that all you have to say?Quote:
Originally Posted by thrall
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhabbi
You call that proper groveling? :rolleyes:
Unless, of course, it's a pure show of sexual submission... :rolleyes: :icon176:Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfscout
I've often been sorry about being too lenient... :rolleyes:
I have a similar problem. I say sorry too often. Comes with being Canadian.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozme52
... Is that relevant to the thread?
Not at all, just an honest statement. Actually I know of a person on another forum who is exactly what I was talking about. No one "deserves" to have someone support them. As Mark Twain once said:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozme52
Quote:
Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first.
I know exactly what you mean. It ends up causing more problems later.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozme52
If I make a mistake, I apologise. That's it. It's no more than common decency. I was brought up that way and it's far too late to change, supposing I wanted to change for the worse.
The nature of my apology depends upon the nature of the mistake. I bump into someone, I say "sorry" and think no more of it. If I do something more serious, my apology will be more thoughtful and proportionate.
In a way, an apology is an attempt to wipe out the mistake, or to put it aside, with mutual agreement. If an apology does not achieve the desired result, or forgiveness cannot be obtained, then maybe a further apology will do the trick. There comes a point, however, when refusal to accept an aopology is counterproductive and all apologies are withdrawn. This can result in open hostility - and ruin a relationship if one is involved.
So, apologise, so far as is reasonable, then F^ck them!
TYWD
PS LMAO @ message 28
Rhabbi, I'm wondering what exactly you meant by 'mistake' in your first post? I think I know but perhaps you could clarify it a little. You may remember me mentioning 'clumsy Dom' in another thread a while back. He (accidentally) trampled my feet throughout a scene - a mistake to be sure, but one of comic proportions. I don't imagine this is the kind of mistake you're referring to.
I'm struggling to recall any particular instances of personal experience that might be regarded as a 'mistake'. There have probably been plenty but obviously, whatever resolution was reached must have been the right one because I can't remember any. I can say that I was married to my Dom at the time and so those 'mistakes' would likely have been dealt with in the same way as any other 'mistake' in our relationship, which is to say sincerely and in private. While we played publicly, and undoubtedly 'mistakes' occured in public, our relationship was such that resolution of these was always done privately. We were never ones that felt compelled to 'air our dirty linen in public', so to speak.
I do not remember exactly whta prompted me to start this thread, I do know that somehting happened between Mishka and myself that rpompted a need to apologiize, and since the mistake actually happened in public I was willing to admit my mistake in public. She convinced me that I should just let it go and that a private and sincere apology was appropiate.Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
Ah! Ok :)
Mishka's reasoning sounds a lot like mine too.
Yes, she is intelligent. After all, she did pick me.
i thought You picked her...:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhabbi