Economic Inequality

I recently watched a video that visually demonstrates the current economic inequality in the US. What I found interesting about it was the differences between how the majority of Americans think things should be compared to their perception of how things really are, and both then compared to the actual data related to the current economic situation.

Here is the link to the video if you have a few minutes to spare on an interesting topic.

http://www.upworthy.com/9-out-of-10-...blowing-fact-2

Comments?

I've always said we live in a run away plutocracy.

Perhaps it is time to once again water the tree of liberty?

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Originally Posted by denuseri

I've always said we live in a run away plutocracy.

Perhaps it is time to once again water the tree of liberty?

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If you're talking about the pet US fantasy of The People rising up against the Guvmint, the main thing wrong with that is that it would inevitably end with one lot of The People shooting down another lot while the Guvmint looked on and laughed. Bear in mind that most of the biggest gun fans are head over heels in love with the plutocracy, and can be reliably called out on the streets whenever the squillionaires are threatened with having to pay taxes like little people.

One would think the plutocrats would know their history a little better so they don't repeat it but then personally I don't think they are capable of breaking the cycle since its apparently part of human physiology to become an ass hat when you acquire too much wealth and power.

Push the fickle mob hard enough and it will turn on you.

As for the blue collar gun lobby supporting republicans, or the socialist liberal leftest occupy wall street-er....supporting the plutocracy...lol...you will more likely find; if history is any guide, that when push comes to shove they will be on the same side in the end against the "haves" and then soon replace them (often times with something worse).

Nature's way of redistributing wealth, going strong now pretty much since the first primitive monkey man picked up a bone or stick or whatever and beat the lead monkey off the banana stack.

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Originally Posted by TantricSoul

I recently watched a video that visually demonstrates the current economic inequality in the US. What I found interesting about it was the differences between how the majority of Americans think things should be compared to their perception of how things really are, and both then compared to the actual data related to the current economic situation.

Here is the link to the video if you have a few minutes to spare on an interesting topic.

http://www.upworthy.com/9-out-of-10-...blowing-fact-2

Comments?

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Hence the Occupy movement on so many countries - US isn't the only one, though I would really like to know how it looks in both UK and DK. We used to say in DK that it is going well when few have too much and fewer still too little - but it isn't going so well lately.

It is certain that without some sort of economical equality you have no democracy. And a country - any country - with so uneven a distribution is not a democracy.

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Originally Posted by denuseri

I've always said we live in a run away plutocracy.

Perhaps it is time to once again water the tree of liberty?

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But how do you create liberty? It will not come of its own. To turn around the present state of affairs in many countries, I think you very badly need to rule the banks and tame run-away and irresponsible money people. And that is difficult. The first attempt in EU was a gesture, not a serious attempt at change, as I understood it.

You need to educate all your population, and sometimes you need to start job-making initiatives by the government. Your government really needs to be for the people, meaning for all the nation.

I thought this interesting: a real bona fida capitalist's idea of what would boost the economy.

Sounds real sensible.

http://www.upworthy.com/a-job-creato...d-job-creation

I thought this interesting: a real bona fida capitalist's idea of what would boost the economy.

Sounds real sensible.

http://www.upworthy.com/a-job-creato...d-job-creation

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Originally Posted by thir

But how do you create liberty? It will not come of its own. To turn around the present state of affairs in many countries, I think you very badly need to rule the banks and tame run-away and irresponsible money people. And that is difficult. The first attempt in EU was a gesture, not a serious attempt at change, as I understood it.

You need to educate all your population, and sometimes you need to start job-making initiatives by the government. Your government really needs to be for the people, meaning for all the nation.

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Well when the people in government are all bought and paid for by the richest 1% you get what we have in so many nations not just the usa. All governments imho should be for their people...not just the rich people but all the people.

Once the people catch on to the bs being spouted by the media and politicians (regardless of political afiliation in the usa since both sides seem to work for big buisness despite their rehtoric) on behalf of their corporate backers and things become bad enough you get just riots and overthrow of said governments.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by denuseri

One would think the plutocrats would know their history a little better so they don't repeat it but then personally I don't think they are capable of breaking the cycle since its apparently part of human physiology to become an ass hat when you acquire too much wealth and power.

Push the fickle mob hard enough and it will turn on you.

As for the blue collar gun lobby supporting republicans, or the socialist liberal leftest occupy wall street-er....supporting the plutocracy...lol...you will more likely find; if history is any guide, that when push comes to shove they will be on the same side in the end against the "haves" and then soon replace them (often times with something worse).

Nature's way of redistributing wealth, going strong now pretty much since the first primitive monkey man picked up a bone or stick or whatever and beat the lead monkey off the banana stack.

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I call it as I see it happening. The NRA showed which side they were on when they supplied the rent-a-mob that stopped the recount in Florida. The Tea Party and their ilk talk a good fight, but what they mean by "freedom" is no taxes, no government regulation of business, and no limits on the power of property owners and employers: which is exactly what the plutocracy have been working towards for a quarter of a century. Like well brought up serfs, they'll take up arms to defend the system that rules them.

And if you're talking about monkeys, any textbook will tell you that they don't gang up on the alpha: the ones lower down the tree kick around the ones below them, or if they're feeling tough and ambitious, they take on the one just above. Which is exactly what the bosses want us to go on doing. Things only change when we stop acting like monkey men and start thinking.

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Originally Posted by denuseri

Well when the people in government are all bought and paid for by the richest 1% you get what we have in so many nations not just the usa. All governments imho should be for their people...not just the rich people but all the people.

Once the people catch on to the bs being spouted by the media and politicians (regardless of political afiliation in the usa since both sides seem to work for big buisness despite their rehtoric) on behalf of their corporate backers and things become bad enough you get just riots and overthrow of said governments.

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What concerns me is that most people are not interested - they can only manage survival, or they cannot be bothered to find out what their Masters are doing to keep them in place and keep in power.

Which means you can pick off the few who tries.

Very true, but I would beg that if conditions get bad enough overall, such as they did in places like Egypt...well you know there will be trouble then.

One would hope it being the modern age of reason that our government would know better then to allow things to progress to the breaking point.

Of course I am sure that none of the governments that have been rebelled against in history felt they were near a breaking point...or they figured they could just crush the resistance.

If anything though recent revolutions have shown that no matter how powerful the occupying force...if people want to keep fighting for their cause, they can and do keep fighting.

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Very true, but I would beg that if conditions get bad enough overall, such as they did in places like Egypt...well you know there will be trouble then.

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I am not so sure. In many places people are too used to the way things are.

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One would hope it being the modern age of reason that our government would know better then to allow things to progress to the breaking point.

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I may be a pessimist, but I doubt that we live in an age of reason - or even that there is such an animal..

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Of course I am sure that none of the governments that have been rebelled against in history felt they were near a breaking point...or they figured they could just crush the resistance.


If anything though recent revolutions have shown that no matter how powerful the occupying force...if people want to keep fighting for their cause, they can and do keep fighting.

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If they know they have one! But if they think what they have is natural, god's will, their own fault, god's punishment...then they do not have a cause.

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Originally Posted by thir

...if they think what they have is natural, god's will, their own fault, god's punishment...then they do not have a cause.

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Nailed it, thir! It's amazing to me how many politicians are able to get their constituents to fight against their own best interests, based solely on their political leanings. People who rely on Social Security and Medicare will vote to reduce or eliminate those payments just because they're promoted by the OTHER guys. And when you add gods into the mixture it becomes a really toxic brew of stupidity and gullibility.

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Originally Posted by denuseri

Very true, but I would beg that if conditions get bad enough overall, such as they did in places like Egypt...well you know there will be trouble then.

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You are aware that Egypt is back under a military dictatorship?

the economic inequality always seems like a strawman argument to me that detracts from the real problem affecting the middle and lower classes which is real falling wages. the two often happen together but don't necessarily have to. it's possible to be better than before in absolute terms, but people have been shown to be more concerned with relative well-being than absolute standard of living. incomes are being edged away as corporate revenue is turned into profit rather than wages (arguably very linked to income inequality) but every dollar diminishes as healthcare, food, and energy costs continue to rise (not related to inequality)

If wages were falling for everyone, you might be able to claim it's a strawman argument. But when CEO's and CFO's are getting bonuses for CUTTING those wages, when stockholders are getting increased dividends BECAUSE of those cuts, you are looking at a mechanism for inequality. Why are food costs rising? Because our out of control government is paying rich farmers to NOT grow crops! Why are energy costs rising? Because those involved in production are preventing the development of new, lower cost, renewable energy generation.

The inequality is real, and growing. The causes of it are as old as history: greed and corruption. The solutions? Way out of my league.

well yes and no. you actually didnt say anything that disagreed with my comment except the end part. rising costs are a part of life, just as falling costs are, and with things such as food and energy, there are more global causes than anything domestic, though there are certain government policies that exacerbate the problem (specifically subsidies to farmers that grow corn for ethenol instead of consumption),and as of now, most green energy is rather inefficient and is heavily subsidized by the govt, but even these would not change the fact that rising costs are here to stay (though again, somethings are falling in price, such as electronics, but the net outcome is things cost more).

my point is just that inequality is a symptom and an outcome of a more serious problem, and the media tends to spin things from "new global causes as well as domestic policies are making things cost more while a sluggish economy is decreasing wages" to "greedy corporations!"
while inequality is a problem it's not THE problem, again, inequality can rise with wages which makes EVERYONE objectively better off