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What are peoples thoughts on a slave,sub that test their Dom, Master, Domme to see if their Dom, Master, Domme will take full control?
Should they be punished for it?
Or should the Dom, Master, Domme be okay with it?
My answer to my own question is that i did test my Master when we first met and have never done it ever again as i learnt the hard way is never to test my Master
As a sub I woukd test my dom because I'd want them to have full control and as a dom I enjoy to be tested so I can enforce my authority.. also it tells me where the sub is at because the way I see it is if my sub tests me then I am not being dominating enough to their satisfaction.
It is perfectly natural and should be expected by the experienced: to test limits in any dominance hierarchy relationship.
It would be a rare sub who didn't at least occasionally test limits, and an ineffectual dom who didn't put her in her place when she did.
And yet...
I would be very displeased with a submissive who tested me.
Would you not admonish a dominant who tested his sub's ability to take a beating rather than judge/evaluate/learn that perfect moment where his or her body is ready to respond to a beating orgasmically?
Would you not admonish a dominant who tested his submissive by trying to force them to use their safeword?
Would you not admonish a dominant who tested and then intentionally passed the boundary between humiliation and degradation just for the experimental nature of it (for what is testing but an experiment?)
IMO if you want more from your dominant or submissive, that's what 'tween-play conversations are for. The negotiations that occur in all relationships as boundaries require adjustments, as time spent together (and how it is spent together) is increased or decreased, as new (or old) activities are (re)explored.
Testing is, (again, my opinion,) tantamount to doubting.
And doubt is perfectly natural. Trust is built through actions, not verbal reassurances. It's perfectly normal for a sub to pull at her lead to test if you're paying attention, and perfectly normal for you to jerk her leash to assure her that you are. It's perfectly normal for the testing to upset you and for you to punish her to remind her of her place. Those tests should become more rare over time as you prove you are in control and as trust is built.
Have you really not had subs test boundaries with you? If not then it seems like you either found exceptional women or are capable of building exceptional trust, either of which is worth a tip of the hat. *tip*
I am sure you didnt do it again, if your Master acted swift and a fast hand.
Perhaps I differ in that I define that act as forgetfulness due to enthusiasm and a gentle correction. Yes, that happens all the time and no, it doesn't upset me anymore than a young pup during its leash training. But if I felt the sub was actually paying attention and testing me? That deserves a reminder of what our relationship is and what she agreed to. Once. (Nor is said reminder a punishment per se. I guess it should suffice that my disappointment is punishment enough, and if not, then is she truly submitting? Has she paid enough attention to performing her submissive role in her attempt to "test" me in my dominant role?Quote:
Originally Posted by Austerus
To that point, I did have a submissive at one point who felt she wasn't getting enough attention, nor was she, but I had made it clear that she was number two to another submissive. She "jerked" her leash and got exactly the same response... and then tested me by announcing she was through... and in that, she was correct. She'd apparently not gotten that reaction before.
One finds all kinds. The choices are what counts. Not "settling" counts for more. Thank-you sir. Yes, I try to choose exceptional women AND am capable of building exceptional trust. (It surprises me, in fact, how I can do so both in person and online. The number of online-to-inperson meetings I've enjoyed, complete with immediate (same or next day) subsequent play and sex, quite frankly astounds me.)Quote:
Have you really not had subs test boundaries with you? If not then it seems like you either found exceptional women or are capable of building exceptional trust, either of which is worth a tip of the hat. *tip*
All that said, I recognize that our disagreement may in fact be semantics. If I saw you in your environment and you saw me in mine, we'd both say the other actually reacts and responds exactly as I do. :D
Taking the description at face value, I think that it's something natural that occurs in the very early stages of the relationship. If it continues beyond that (extenuating circumstances notwithstanding), then I agree with Oz. Correct, discuss ("this is not how I do things, and if you need my attention, ask me politely or this will not end well..." etc), and if it happens again (see above re: circumstances), a line has been crossed.
My first instinct, though, was not to take the comment as stated. Testing is inherently negative, after a point. Depending on how your relationship works, though, it can be very fun to push boundaries within proper play. My dom and I dubbed it "the dance" when we were an online couple, 8.5 years ago. We still call it that today. If he pushes those buttons, I know I get to play, too. It's fun, and not about testing each other. Years ago, when I worked up the nerve to join a local mailing list, the sub who was pretty much the designated welcoming committee told me that I was a smart-ass masochist and "real" doms wouldn't go near me once they found out, when I tried to explain my style of play to her. That was the last bit of contact I had with the local scene, even knowing that my explanation probably wasn't as well-thought out as I might have given today.
I guess my bottom line is this: If you and your dom/me are on the same page and what you do works in the confines of your relationship, that's okay. If you or your dom/me are unhappy with it, then you need to hash it out. Communication is key.
Yes. Another good point delish.
What we do during play in no way changes the basis of our D/s. If she wants to play bratty sub, we may play bratty sub, (depending on MY mood of course,) with all the attendent "punishment" that goes with it.
Then again, how do your judge/evaluate without having tested - that is, having had experience - with your sub?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozme52
No. I think it is a natural thing to do.Quote:
Would you not admonish a dominant who tested his submissive by trying to force them to use their safeword?
Sometimes it is simpler and more natural to do it in the situation. I guess it is a matter of preference.Quote:
IMO if you want more from your dominant or submissive, that's what 'tween-play conversations are for. The negotiations that occur in all relationships as boundaries require adjustments, as time spent together (and how it is spent together) is increased or decreased, as new (or old) activities are (re)explored.
Doubt is also natural. But might also be simply a little reassuring. Or even a flirt.Quote:
Testing is, (again, my opinion,) tantamount to doubting.
Depends on when where and how.
Fortunately, there are those who both agree and disagree and therefore we will all find our matches if we look diligently.
Why be in the relationship if there is any doubt of them taking the control needed?
I don't see anything productive in my testing my Doms ability to take control and I seriously doubt I would be punished, most likely I would be released as my Sir does not take lightly to nonsense and purposeful disobedience.
hmmm...i've been sitting here and absorbing this for a bit, and i think i would have to say that i don't completely understand why one would test their dominant to start with. it would seem to me that if you are intentionally testing your dominant, there has to be something lacking... (just my opinion. i'm fully aware that my opinion is not necessarily the right one...it is just that. an opinion.)
personally...i would never purposely or consciously test my dominant, as i believe that he deserves so much better from me. now, that being said...i'm sure there are moments where he may be tested, but where i have not set out to test in a pre-meditated manner......this is just part and parcel with human nature, lol!
"Testing" occurs naturally within all relationships. It's the exploration of boundaries, the feeling out of positive and negative preferences. It's typically not a malice laced set-up, in fact it's usually not even overtly intentional.
When it does become a set-up, however, when testing starts to toe the line to manipulation, then I have an issue. Responding to and paying attention to how your Dom reacts to your interactions with others when you go out in public together is a good test of where boundaries and comfort levels exist. Going out and over-the-top hitting on every man in sight to see how much your Dom can take before he snaps and claims you back in a jealous rage so you can feel all wanted and paid attention to? Now that's a horse of an entirely different color, and is manipulative testing at it's worst.
Torian and I have been together for almost four years now. I know for a FACT that I have tested him several times over those four years. However, those tests weren't intentional. It was simply a natural reaction to being told, "If you do this, this will happen." Ok. So I do it. Maybe not on purpose, but I do it. It's not a matter of doubting Torian's dominance or control in the relationship. And it has nothing to do with not trusting him. It's me, in my submission, looking for reassurance that this action WILL lead to this consequence. And unfortunately, words are RARELY enough for reassurance. I need physical action, as I'm sure many submissives do. And, on the other side of the same coin, I fully expect my own submissives, when I have them, to push and test me to see if I will actually follow through on what I say will happen if they do this or that.
I can see both sides of this argument, and truthfully, I think it varies from one relationship to the next as to whether or not verbal communication will suffice to remind or reassure a submissive of their place in a relationship.
I have no problems with a submissive testing her leash, finding out what is acceptable and what isn't. I don't want a sub that feels like she can't tease me and be a bit unruly at times as long as she understands that I will draw the line and bring her back under control when and how I wish. Just like with a puppy, you may play tug of war with them or let them get a little rough but as soon as the command is given, they should stop and obey.
Testing in the form mentioned by DowntownAmber would be totally unacceptable.