Online vs R/L relationships

[MrJerseyGuy]

This subject has come up before and some of you who know me must have groaned when you saw my name and the subject! Without going into my personal situation…I want to pose the question…

How do you make the distinction between an online relationship and a real life one?

Online relationships have become such a reality these days. I’m only 45, which will sound old to some and young to others…but I’ve been involved with computers since before they invented the internet and I have seen the whole progression since aol version 1.0 for DOS came out. I tried online dating…it was a disaster. Tried online relationships…found that it can hurt as much as a real one with none of the fringe benefits. I’d love to hear about some of your experiences. I’ve heard the great stories about people who meet online and wind up happily married…and I’ve heard the horror stories about people who leave their families for an online lover…only to wind up alone in 3 months.

I see a lot of drama going on in our chat and wonder how everyone feels about it. I try to keep my perspective that the Internet is nothing more than entertainment…like television. But then you start chatting with someone, talking on the phone…web cam, exchanging pictures…and who knows how this will wind up impacting your life.

This may be boring to some…unlike “Personal Pics”…but I know there are many of you who will have a strong opinion on the subject. I’d really love to hear them.

[Finding_Fantasy]

Now, I haven't been around on the internet as long as you have, MJG (I hope you don't mind me shortening your name.) but I have had some good relationships online and I have had some bad ones; mostly bad I am sorry to say.

I think the reason that I turned to the internet was so that I could escape from the person everyone thought I was to the person I really wanted to be and this was even before I learned about BDSM. It started near the end of an extremely abusive relationship in which I was trapped and the internet was the only place I felt "safe". No one could hit me there and if I got into "trouble" I could just click the X and run away. Also, I had people making advances on me - as much as was possible in a chatroom. I knew that it was only because that I was some faceles woman with whom these people could fantisize was someone else, someone they always wanted to be with but would never happen, but in some small way it made me feel good.

The internet is a good place to find yourself if you are honest. You don't really have to worry about what other people think about you becuase you can just turn the computer off and walk away. You can be yourself. Unfortunately, it works both ways. It is also a good way for people to be someone they aren't and I think that is where a lot of people get themselves into trouble. They build themselevs up in each others heads as being the person of each other's dreams and when they meet, they fall short of the mark, the fantasy is broken; the bubble burst. You weren't the knight in shining armor she thought you were or the supermodel you thought she was.

Now, I have had a couple of online relationships, both with dominants, and one of the two worked out for me and that was with TG. The other, however, was completely different. He was a nightmare waiting to happen. I got lucky though, it didn't take me long. I found TG after only being online for about 3 months and we talked for another six before we met face to face. But we were upfront and honest about who and what we were from the beginning and I think that is a big part of it.

All that I can say, is that I am for internet relationships if they are open and honest; that the people involved don't try to be someone they are not. But then again, this is true in any relationship, on or offline. I am thankful for internet relationships because, if there weren't any, I probably would have been alone for a very long time and I wouldn't have TG and our beautiful daughter, both whom I love very much.

Anyway, that is my opinion of internet relationships. I don't know if that was the kind of feedback that you were looking for and I could have gone on for pages and pages but I thought I would cut it short.

[MrJerseyGuy]

All that I can say, is that I am for internet relationships if they are open and honest; that the people involved don't try to be someone they are not. But then again, this is true in any relationship, on or offline. I am thankful for internet relationships because, if there weren't any, I probably would have been alone for a very long time and I wouldn't have TG and our beautiful daughter, both whom I love very much.

Thats exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for and I am very very happy for you. And you are right...there are many things that apply in online relationship as well as r/l. because the concept is so new...I have to think that there are lots of people asking some of these questions. Not just in a bdsm context, but in a relationship context as well. I was just looking to fuel some conversation based on thoughts that go through my head. Sometimes I think too much!!! lol.

Thanks for the response...I look forward to others

[Hokeye22]

I like to consider myself as the “perfect on-liner”.
I can say that about me because that’s my only channel, till now (see the end for explanation), to the BDSM community and friends.
I agree that this “technique” give easy way to imposters but only for short time – as the say goes: ”you cant fool all the people all the time”. When it comes to chats - especially one on one – an “open eyes” person will realize sooner or later if his\ hers counterpart is true or phony.
One should not be afraid to make connections as long as he\she does it gradually and with regular self- tests to the truth ness of the connection.
Each one has his\her own paste and it’s strongly recommended to add extra time to your usual “time of making up my mind about someone”…
The second insight I learned from on-line connections (and it has to do with the previous one, too) – is that real honest connection leads quickly to pictures and web cam.
If that doesn’t happen – know that something (major or minor) is wrong!
Because of the imposters’ hazards in this technique - being cautious is an acceptable norm and that’s the way it should stay.


Due to my current personal status (married to a vanilla wife), my place of living (Jerusalem – city, and country, that
Everybody knows everybody…) and that I am still not in the stage of dramatical decisions.

[BDSM_Tourguide]

The second insight I learned from on-line connections (and it has to do with the previous one, too) – is that real honest connection leads quickly to pictures and web cam.
If that doesn’t happen – know that something (major or minor) is wrong!
Because of the imposters’ hazards in this technique - being cautious is an acceptable norm and that’s the way it should stay.

Actually, I never saw a picture of FF until about two weeks before I picked her up from the airport. And even that was about 4 years old at the time.

Pictures are only important if you're concerned with looks.

[Hokeye22]

I raised the pictures issue as an important way (not the only way)for showing honesty and truth to your new on-line counterpart friend.
nothing to do with the looks...as I said (and you said it too) - you need longer time on the web even after seeing pics.

[slavelucy]

Ah, MRJG, i was wondering when you were going to post this. *grins*

i could go on and on with this subject, don't worry folks, i'm not gonna, i'm not much in the mood for sharing the ins and outs of my life, which commenting too lengthily on this thread would mean doing.

One thing i did want to comment on was this, though:

I see a lot of drama going on in our chat

i think there is somewhat of a distinction between a true online relationship and some of the shenanigans that takes place in BDSM chat rooms and i think to sweep the whole lot together is to belittle what some people have. There is a wealth of difference between a meaningful online Ds (or vanilla, for that matter) relationship and some of the stuff that takes place in chat rooms...in fact, i'd go as far to say that the latter is what gives online relationships a bit of a bad name. i personally think chat rooms are a better place to have fun and friendships rather than actually be able to conduct an online relationship. i hope you don't take that the wrong way MrJG, it isn't that i don't know what you meant, i do, but the two are not the same thing.

Also, i would always offer a bit of caution in seeing interaction with other people on the interent purely as 'entertainment'..entertaining, it can be, of course, but i am always mindful that i'm not watching my TV, there is another person/people sat at the other end...and perhaps this is where the crux of the matter lies...human beings WILL eventually interact, often on the most personal of levels, when given the medium, any medium in which to do so and therefore the concept of online relationships (be it friendships, or more) has never struck me as all that odd.

And, now, cause i don't feel all that well, i'm going to go and conduct a relationship with the sofa and my teddy bear and have a nap.

sl

[MrJerseyGuy]

Ah, MRJG, i was wondering when you were going to post this. *grins*

LOL! I knew you'd know I was going to post this lucy! Just chalk it up to a bourbon induced fit of remorse over some of the spirited debate I've had with others over the past few days!

Seriously though...

Some of the stuff I've seen recently just made me start thinking about it. Not in a judgemental way at all...but I am curious about the subject. We have a wealth of people here of all ages. races, locations and sexual experience/preference. I am genuinely just looking for others perspective on the topic.

Hell, if the trend keeps going, in a few more years bars and dances may be only a memory and the internet will be the main "dating forum" (if it isn't already)!

[Pandora's Box]

Well... my online dating experiences have actually been more positive than my real life dating experiences. Perhaps part of that is due to age and experience creeping in. Perhaps another part is that I live in just about the worst city in the US for dating and finding a mate.

But... I do agree that honesty and being yourself is essential. While that is true for any relationship, it becomes especially true for online liasons. If the honesty is there, I believe it is actually easier to really get to know a person. No distractions of their physical presence and the long conversations really allow you to see inside the person.

I believe it is hard to keep up any pretense of an assumed personality for long. The truth will come out.

[Ladywynn]

I've had both positive and negative experiences with online relationships, but I can echo everyone else here in saying as long as you are honest about yourself, and you believe the other is honest as well... then it could be a fulfilling and rewarding relationship/friendship.

On the flipside, I was in a year long relationship with someone I honestly believed I loved. We shared everything, spared no details, nothing was left unsaid, we'd planned to meet. In the beginning he'd shared some pictures that he said was him, but when it got down to meeting, he confessed that he'd sent pictures of his cousin... And this was after a year of us talking about everything! I hadn't demanded pictures, it was something he offered to show, so he wasn't under any pressure to prove himself.. I didn't want the perfect guy, and honestly I really liked his *real* pictures (it actually fit in with my image of him, rather than the "perfect" pictures he'd sent earlier that year) but I think from there, the doubt started to creep in, like what else had he lied about? The relationship rather deteriorated from there. I felt really betrayed by it. Especially since I was really uncomfortable with my own body, but still trusted him enough. I don't know even know if it was something to dissolve the friendship over, but I no longer trusted him.. *sighs*

I guess it comes down to trial and error unfortunately. Some people are honest and honestly want friends and maybe more, and some people are only looking for a good time. I would just say, be honest with yourself and honest with the people you meet, and in time, the fakers will be weeded out.

I agree with Pandora... it's difficult to sustain a lie for very long..

[esclava]

Hiya! Over the years I've made many online friendships that have carried over to r/l. All vanilla, and primarily related to my art activities. Much of what I do is rather solitary so it's wonderful to be able to meet folks in person, compare notes and end results, and just make friends who speak the same language.

I thought I was a pretty good veteran of how online relationships (of that sort) worked.....til Master found me. In just a few months' time it progressed from friendship to a deeper friendship (all just chat and email) to coming out about BDSM...and then it really took off. We met in person 7 months after our first online contact. Oh, and for the record we only exchanged pix a few weeks before meeting, so we knew who to look for at the airport. Neither of us ever owned a webcam. But I bought my first cellphone because of him.

That first r/l meeting was not quite 5 years ago. Since then we've both rearranged our lives significantly, moved in together 2 years ago and are getting married soon. I guess you can say it was pretty intense.

I think what's made it work so far was honesty and realizing that communicating primarily online required very clear communication. We shared not just our fantasies and dreams but a good deal of the "harsh realities" of our real lives. Once in a while I miss the old days of hot IM's, phone calls and occasional visits, but even though we don't have wild 3-day scening weekends anymore, 24/7 with him has been better than I ever imagined.

So where's the chat?

[Texxx]

Good evening,

I have chatted in Gorean rooms for some time now...and have just recently left Gor....perhaps for good.

I applaud your thoughts, that there are real people at the key boards and that feelings can be hurt deeply on line.....

My experience has shown me that....many ( far to many) on-line people strike out at what they have not the will or wit to deal with real time.....They play silly games and reek havoc with people that truly just wish to be themselves, ( If only for a few hrs. a week)

Today far to many that chat in Gor read Norman's books cover to cover all of them ..... cause they need to create a persona ..... I was a part of Gor....when most... ( not all mind - you) were just Gorean. Like me they were Gorean before they knew there was such a thing. They did not need to create somebody .... they were SOMEBODY.

Now I do have and well keep a tight group of very close friends....Most I have meet r/t... Some I will meet in the coming months...a few that I may never meet & like you I have heard some stories...I have seen some stories unfold .....

For me tho....I seek friends....if something more comes of it.....that is icing ..... If not......I do indeed enjoy the cake.

Texxx
Gorean Master

[BDSM_Tourguide]

Today far to many that chat in Gor read Norman's books cover to cover all of them ..... cause they need to create a persona ..... I was a part of Gor....when most... ( not all mind - you) were just Gorean. Like me they were Gorean before they knew there was such a thing. They did not need to create somebody .... they were SOMEBODY.

I would have to disagree. Perhaps not with the sentiment, but with the wording. People involved in BDSM (before it was called BDSM) didn't need a book or another person to tell them what they were called. The "Old Guard" dynamic has existed since at least the 1950s and in it, the principles of power exchange and complete submission and servitude are pretty much preached like doctrine.

Well, all of that was before the first Gor book was released in 1963. So, people weren't Gorean and just didn't know it. People were very well aware of what they were and they knew it quite well. And who they were, it turns out, were the forerunners and pioneers of what we all today call BDSM, in one form or another.

[Adamoverjules]

When I saw this thread, I prtty much decided this was the best place to share my story. I'll try to keep it short though.
A little more than a year ago, I was just discovering this new side of myself that was interested in BDSM. So, rather than go to my long term girlfriend at the time, I did what any other normal person would do...turn to the internet. One of the submissives that I talked to online, the first one I'd ever talked to that was near my age, and near my area, was jules. As luck would have it, she was in a relationship at the time too. We both thought that the relationships we were in at the time wouldn't end. But, also, as that same luck would have it, I was about to be going off to the same school that she had just graduated from about a month earlier. Since we were both in relationships at the time, we probably wouldn't have talked after that, until she realized we were going to the same school. We started talk about that, and as time progressed, we started to talk about life, about our 'others'. Eventually, we began to realize that we had a LOT in common, all those little coincedences from growing up, right jules? Well, anyways, we talked online for nearly a year, and I saw two pictures of her, and she saw a couple of me. We finally met after 11 months of talking online, and at about that time, we both became single.
So basically the moral of my story is....online relationships can work, even if you don't plan on taking them further than friendship, although I think ours worked so well because we were completely honest with eachother. We started out that way, and now that we're going further than friends, we're staying that way.

[MrJerseyGuy]

So, rather than go to my long term girlfriend at the time, I did what any other normal person would do...turn to the internet.

That is such at 21st Century response!!! I love it!

[Texxx]

Well, all of that was before the first Gor book was released in 1963. So, people weren't Gorean and just didn't know it. People were very well aware of what they were and they knew it quite well. And who they were, it turns out, were the forerunners and pioneers of what we all today call BDSM, in one form or another.

I was mostly speaking from My own personnel life experience.

For most of My single life I lived in the company of bi-sexual girls...the words " He owns me/us" were never spoken,true but it was if nothing else shown in their actions. My home was no a drug den nor was I a pimp or anything demented like that.... We just enjoyed each others company. When I came home dinner was on the table...the house was clean....the girls as a norm served dinner topless if not nude....The music I enjoyed was on the real to real. We quite frankly thought we were most likely the only threesome in the western world....

My girls were punished and knew they would be then they were out of line. The
use of rope, the crop, the cane, sexual restriction, and spanking were tools I used. I have no clue how I came up with these ideas but I did.

OOOOOOOO we had troubles we were in fact human, but never did we fight about things that might be assumed to be problems to outsider. The biggest problem that came up...was that the girls wanted to find another girl and I was perfectly happy with things as they were, The three of us were a unit, we fit together, more would have been seen as a commune and would draw to much attention, that would have been more than could have been tolerated in the early 70's.

People use to say ..." Here comes Texxx and His harem." Hell, we got a kick out of that. The truth be known I believe the girls got more out of it then anyone. But the fact was it was My harem and if asked bout those days to this very day they both will freely admit those were possibly the best days of our life, I would not argue the point.

Every where we went soon became a party in a way beacuse we were Happy and in so many ways forfilled, complete. I wager that the people we knew in Houston still smile then they think about "Texxx's Harem". I take great pride in that.

My point here was that we lived as closely to Gor as I believe possible outside of the scrolls themselves ..... When I ran across John Normans books....I finally found a definition for the experience.

I am not the writer that most are here I hope that I have made sense.

Texxx
Gorean Master

[Finding_Fantasy]

Well, since this has gotten a little off topic I will attempt to steer it back in the proper direction.

I think that the thing that I hate the most about online relationships (If I had to chose one thing) would be how people automatically assume that because you are online and speaking to them, you are interested in sex. For example: When you meet someone and they ask if you would like to see a picture of them, you say sure, and they send you a nude picture of themselves.

Uhhhh... and I wanted to see that, why? It would be the same thing as walking up to someone in a bar, talking to them for a few minutes, and then ripping all of your clothes off. All I want when I talk to someone online is for them to act they way they would if we had met in a real life situation. I don't know why that is such a hard thing to do.

[-angelstar-]

i actually concur with what FF says.

i do go to some online sites to meet people, such as alt.com. and IF i see a picture of someone's private part on his profile, that's it. he's immediately off my list. i dont' care how gorgeous or intelligent or rich or whatever he is.... because to me, the message that is being carried across to me is, to that guy, sex is first and foremost. and that's not what i'm interested in.

personally, pictures should be fully clothed, unless specifically requested otherwise. and honestly, if someone i haven't ever met requests for a nude picture of me... chances are 99% he's going to be rejected. why? because i don't see the logic. if you want to know how i look like, a fully clothed picture would suffice. if you want a erotic picture to get up to some hanky panky with, i'm sure there're tons of sex sites with sufficient graphics to assist you.

just my two cents please don't get offended.

[MrJerseyGuy]

For example: When you meet someone and they ask if you would like to see a picture of them, you say sure, and they send you a nude picture of themselves.

Uhhhh... and I wanted to see that, why? It would be the same thing as walking up to someone in a bar, talking to them for a few minutes, and then ripping all of your clothes off. All I want when I talk to someone online is for them to act they way they would if we had met in a real life situation. I don't know why that is such a hard thing to do.

LOL... I've met a few girls at the bar that did that!

But sersiously, That trend seems to be something that has carried over from the old AOL days. I mean like late 80's old. Many of us have matured past that...most have not. Like taxes, I think that mentality is just a fact of life. It may change someday...just not today!