What is submission

[Master Trin]

To submit is a verb, an active thing. Submission is a noun, the name of a concept, nouns personify. You are a submissive, it one of the main things that defines you as an individual. I believe Submission is threefold. You are a submissive firstly, it is what you are, its identifies you as much as saying that you are am American, or that you are an Asian. Secondly you “feel” submissive, this is different from being a submissive. Different individuals experience different emotions and desires. So apart from submission being a defining aspect of your nature, one that is fundamental, derived from both genetic and environmental factors, it also a complex emotion. The emotive aspect of submission contains elements of the baser emotions, fear, lust, love ( at times ), desire to please. Thirdly there is there is the active part, you make a conscious decision to submit and you do it willingly if at times fearfully. So a Submissive is a person male or female who because of genetic and environmental factors is predisposed to having strong emotive urges to serve, to please and to submit most times but not exclusively to a Dominant individual. One that willingly ( for the most part ) submits to another in an active ( though not necessarily physical ) way. It must be noted though that human beings are creatures of choice, a submissive may freely or subconsciously choose to suppress their natural desires or to accept them but not act upon them.

What are your views on my observations on submission, these are my personal views and may terefore conflict with what is generally accepted. I would be very interested to hear the views of a submissive on my thoughts of submission as a Dominant.

[_ID_]

Submission and what it means varies from person to person. For every submissive there will likely be a different definition. That is one of the first and foremost stumbling blocks of our communities ability to find cohesion and organization to get momentum in the same manner the LGBT community did.

With that in mind, my definition of a submissive and what makes a submissive: A submissive finds completion in their submission, where a bottom finds enjoyment from a scene. A submissive will often times be a type 'A' personality, and find comfort and release in their submission. Realizing an inner peace that they must sacrifice in order to do for others what they see needs done. Many times a submissive is submissive to only one, and to everyone else is the alpha personality. Other times a submissive will be that person that has great trouble being in the lead of any group, or making any decisions without some sort of previously laid out structure to follow.

Slaves, while holding many of the same personality traits as submissives, have a different mindset than submissives do. A slave will sacrifice their own well being, their own interests for the one they have devoted themselves to. Irregardless if that devotion is properly placed or not.

[thir]

Submission and what it means varies from person to person. For every submissive there will likely be a different definition. That is one of the first and foremost stumbling blocks of our communities ability to find cohesion and organization to get momentum in the same manner the LGBT community did.

Can you explain more what you mean about momentum and organisation? That we should be better organised because of pressure from main-stream society, or do you mean inner organisation, and if so to what end, or how?

[quote]
A submissive will often times be a type 'A' personality, and find comfort and release in their submission.
[/quote}

What is meant by a type 'A' personality? Haven't heard that before.

Slaves, while holding many of the same personality traits as submissives, have a different mindset than submissives do. A slave will sacrifice their own well being, their own interests for the one they have devoted themselves to. Irregardless if that devotion is properly placed or not.

IMO your sharp divisions here are not really found in reality - I think many subs will go far to please their D and not all slaves will sacrifice everything, to make two examples.

[_ID_]

Can you explain more what you mean about momentum and organisation? That we should be better organised because of pressure from main-stream society, or do you mean inner organisation, and if so to what end, or how?

A submissive will often times be a type 'A' personality, and find comfort and release in their submission.

What is meant by a type 'A' personality? Haven't heard that before.




IMO your sharp divisions here are not really found in reality - I think many subs will go far to please their D and not all slaves will sacrifice everything, to make two examples.

Type A personality.
http://stress.about.com/od/understan...e_a_person.htm

As far as organization. Yes inner organization. I gave the example of the LGBT community. They are well organized. Our community doesn't have the same organization. We are organized on a local level for education and protection within our community. We fail to be organized at a level above that, that would give our community more legal rights. A more firm place in accepted society. This lack of organization is two part. Too many people have to fear the legal ramifications of being actively BDSM, and then there is the definition problem. All the things we do have various definitions. It prevents us from being able to talk about the same thing, and have the same understanding of the same thing without a long drawn out discussion about the definition. Mind you, I don't want someone coming along and being the definition police, I'm just citing my observation into why we are that way.

And my definitions are based in reality, because they are founded on my experience. They are not meant to be your definition, or a definition for anyone else. Hence the reason for prefacing my post with IMO (aka In My Opinion).

[thir]

Type A personality.
http://stress.about.com/od/understan...e_a_person.htm

Interesting! Thanks.

As far as organization. Yes inner organization. I gave the example of the LGBT community. They are well organized. Our community doesn't have the same organization. We are organized on a local level for education and protection within our community. We fail to be organized at a level above that, that would give our community more legal rights. A more firm place in accepted society.

Ok, I get it. A sort of national organisation that deals among other things with accept and legal advice.

This lack of organization is two part. Too many people have to fear the legal ramifications of being actively BDSM,

Quite!

and then there is the definition problem. All the things we do have various definitions. It prevents us from being able to talk about the same thing, and have the same understanding of the same thing without a long drawn out discussion about the definition. Mind you, I don't want someone coming along and being the definition police, I'm just citing my observation into why we are that way.

I see what you mean, and many would agree, at least in principle. Personally I do not think that it is possible to agree on definitions, and while that can be a nuisance, it can also be very giving to discuss them.

And my definitions are based in reality, because they are founded on my experience. They are not meant to be your definition, or a definition for anyone else. Hence the reason for prefacing my post with IMO (aka In My Opinion).

Absolutely. We can all only speak for ourselves, and compare notes, which was what I was trying to do. No offence was intended in any way.

[denuseri]

I must pose then the question:

Would one not also sacrifice of themselves, yea even give their very life if nessesary, to protect thier beloved...be that they are dominant, submissive, master, slave or otherwise?

Are not both bound together in chains of love?

[_ID_]

I must pose then the question:

Would one not also sacrifice of themselves, yea even give their very life if nessesary, to protect thier beloved...be that they are dominant, submissive, master, slave or otherwise?

Are not both bound together in chains of love?

You pose the question of power exchange.

Everyone at some point in their lives submits in some manner or another. If we didn't our world would be full of lawless inhabitants and anarchy would rule.

So would a Dominant who wishes to protect their loved one submit in some manner? Most assuredly this is the case. If the Dominant provides even a sliver of after care, it is a form of submitting to the needs of the submissive. That however doesn't make them submissive, or even slave. It makes them passionate, caring and protective.

What makes someone a submissive, slave or bottom is all mindset. How do the view themselves? The answer to the question is always individual to the person, and the definition that results guides them in their life. If it's answered honestly.

[thir]

Everyone at some point in their lives submits in some manner or another. If we didn't our world would be full of lawless inhabitants and anarchy would rule.

At some point yes, but I think most things are done by co-operation, and that is why a Ds relationship is so special. It steps outside main-stream lifestyle.

[moco]

I think D/s is very much about cooperation.

The dominant wants, and in some cases needs, that submission from a sub to have that perceived control of them to protect them.
The submissive wants, and or needs, that feeling of control and protection from the dom.
It is an exchange...but if there were no cooperation, none of that would happen. even in a M/s relationship, the Master has to be willing to accept service and submission from the slave, and the slave must be willing to give it, otherwise the whole relationship falls apart. There has to be an equal amount of "energy" exchanged in order for any of it to work. If the "energy" wasnt equal, the relationship would only have energy going in one direction.

And love plays such an important part. I feel that love is one of the most powerful forces in the world. Love drives us to do extraordinary things. It can be both great and terrible at the same time.


This is just my opinion, and I tend to see things in the bdsm world in my own special way, sometimes completely against what others see how it happens. And because I am new to BDSM, my views may come to change in time, but this is how I see it right now.....and my journey and exploration is continuing.

[Master Trin]

Love will cause one to do anything that is needed to save protect the loved one be it a master or a slave, a dom or sub . A non love master slave relatiomship is another matter I think. and I do think it is possible to have a solid relationship built on mutual reaspect and need fullfilment and not love, but this is not ideal though i think very practical at times.

[denuseri]

Ive actually seen dominants that thought love was a weakness and even submitted to such on occassion.

Though I have since been shown by my Owner that love is hardly a weakness, in fact it can be one's greatest strength.

What I was saying is that I believe both the dominant and submisive can make sacrifices to and for each other in different ways at times and catagorically universal sacrifices at other times to and for each other depending upon their relationship dynamic.

I was't posing a question of power exchange at all, merely nor sugesting that a dominant is submitting by careing for their property's welfare so much as owning up to the inheirent responsibilities of wise dominion.

[_ID_]

I've too have heard of Dominants that thought love was weakness. In my view, those Dominants that view love that way have been hurt, and view love as having put them blindly in the position to be hurt.

As to the point about a dominant submitting by owning up to the inherent responsibilities of wise dominion. In what way is that not a form of power exchange?

[denuseri]

I would put forth good Sir : In that they are not submitting themselves to thier charge so much as to the principle of protecting the one within it.

The dominant does not give up power to do this, if anything they gain even more, for the submissive who knows they are well cared for has the trust that they profferd in good faith affirmed by deed as well as word, thus binding one all the more closely.

[Master Trin]

What is your definition of submission thoigh denuseri

[angelic.zest]

To submit is a verb, an active thing. Submission is a noun, the name of a concept, nouns personify. You are a submissive, it one of the main things that defines you as an individual. I believe Submission is threefold. One that willingly ( for the most part ) submits to another in an active ( though not necessarily physical ) way.

What are your views on my observations on submission, these are my personal views and may terefore conflict with what is generally accepted. I would be very interested to hear the views of a submissive on my thoughts of submission as a Dominant.

I saw this question last night and I wanted to comment but I was so exhausted that I couldnt hold my head up to try to answer it Lol. Anyway, I would like to comment on myself and myself alone.

Personally, Submission means to me. Giving myself truly to that person. Thats a hard thing for me to do, I am always fighting with myself trying to tell myself that it's ok to be submissive, to let myself go and enjoy what's happening. Submission also means to me letting go, giving myself and sacrificing what I may want or think i need in order to please my SO. I've done the vanilla thing and It didn't work, it truly didn't work for me. I felt as if something was missing, like he wasn't getting me, and he didn't get me. Even though, he was a lovely man, one who took care of me and his responsibilities. I didnt feel a connection to him, not the connection a submissive has with her Dominant. He wasn't dominant and I didnt realize at the time how much I wanted it.
So I guess my need and want to be submissive took over the want of being with someone who everyone thought was a great match for me. I just didnt work and i guess me wanting to submit and my personality of wanting to be submissive to someone took over.
As, ID stated the definition of submission means something different to everyone. My definition of submission means something different for me then others. I am feisty, very up front when something is wrong and I will speak on it.

[denuseri]

Submission is a journey.

Submission is a gift.

Submission is a covenant.

Submission is faith.

Submission is honor.

Submission is truth.

Submission is one half of being a whole.

Submission is love.

Submission is strength.

Submission is courage.

Submission is surrender.

Submission is freedom.

Submission is all these things and more.

[thir]

Submission is a journey.

Submission is a gift.

Submission is a covenant.

Submission is faith.

Submission is honor.

Submission is truth.

Submission is one half of being a whole.

Submission is love.

Submission is strength.

Submission is courage.

Submission is surrender.

Submission is freedom.

Submission is all these things and more.

It seems to me that these things could also be said for dominance - even as praise of life itself!

[summerBreeze{EDQ}]

I love your answer Denuseri bravo

[cryrose]

I think for the most part love has to a part of a dom/sub relationship... at least one that is going to last. How can a dom truly expect a sub to submit completely if they are not showing love and affection as well. For me this lifestyle is about the stronger relationship that can be built with someone, I would not be willing to submit on all levels for someone who I didn't know loved me.

[thir]

I think for the most part love has to a part of a dom/sub relationship... at least one that is going to last. How can a dom truly expect a sub to submit completely if they are not showing love and affection as well.

I do not think there are many (though who knows) but I have met subs who absolutely needed impersonal relationships, as like to a historical slavery as possible. And not as a fantasy.

So it does exist, though it does not get so much PR ;-)

[Master Trin]

I enjoyed your definition Denu, thanks for sharing, good posts by everyone elso also, glad i started this thread, helpful information.

[trissymac]

Love the thread. It's such a loaded, misunderstood and underestimated pleasure-thanks to all for the banter!