New York Police Handcuff First-Grader

[thir]

Speaking of how much the state should interfere:

New York Police Handcuff First-Grader

A 7-year-old student in a special-education class in New York City was handcuffed by police after he became upset while decorating an Easter egg. Teachers at the Queens school say that first-grader Joseph Anderson didn't like the way his Easter egg turned out, and began to throw a tantrum. When teachers told him calmly that he needed to quiet down or be sent to the hospital, he jumped on his desk and screamed, "I just want my mommy!" He was then handcuffed and taken to the hospital by a New York City police officer, even though his mother was on her way to the school.

"He was crying and saying, 'I want Mommy,'" his mother, Jessica Anderson, said. "Why handcuff him? Why get the cops involved? He's only 7."

Good question. I have worked with children of that age, 2 adults to 20 kids, some of whom could be quite a handful. But I have never threathened them with hospital (!) nor sent for the police!!

What is this tendency??

http://www.care2.com/causes/educatio...nypd-handcuff/

[IAN 2411]

I have to agree with the multitude of comments, in that if it was a special needs class then it should have special needs teachers. If they were S.N.T then they were defrauding the state, because they were obviously out of their depth. The police should have monitored the situation and waited for an Ambulance with Paramedics that know how to deal with Autism, and carry the correct restraints. The other thing i cant make out is is it only in the USA that you call the police to take a child to hospital? Mind boggeling.

Be well IAN 2411

[Snark]

Hey, New Jersey would have called in SWAT!

[thir]

I have to agree with the multitude of comments, in that if it was a special needs class then it should have special needs teachers. If they were S.N.T then they were defrauding the state, because they were obviously out of their depth. The police should have monitored the situation and waited for an Ambulance with Paramedics that know how to deal with Autism, and carry the correct restraints. The other thing i cant make out is is it only in the USA that you call the police to take a child to hospital? Mind boggeling.

Be well IAN 2411

But also why take him to a hospital?

A hospital is a place where you treat people who are ill or hurt, not a place where you clamp down on people or little kids who make a disturbance.

[denuseri]

This is all imho a direct result of what my owner likes to call....The pussyification factor.

Back in the day the teacher would have been able to most likely easily taken the child in hand and delivered a few well deserved swats to the childs fanny to chastize him and that would have been it, end of story. Of course back in the day the parents would have raised the child to respect authority to begin with too.

But in today politically correct world, the teacher doesnt dare touch him for fear of a lawsuit and all sorts of cover one's ass procedural bull crap has to be resorted too, and sadely enough, the parents probabely dont spank him eaither for the same fear that they will get prosecuted.

I bet whats made out to be so shooking in the report is actual "procedure" and school doctrine being applied as it was desgined by lawyers to avoid lawsuits from angry parents who would sue the teacher if she had intervened personally and disiplined the child.

Of course the story is coming from a onesided source with an agenda, so I have to take it with a grain of salt, it looks like there is a wholle lot more going on than what was reported selectivly in the article.

The hospital trip also sounds procedural, and more "cover one's ass" pc bull crappy at work.

[StrictMasterD]

When do they start arresting babies in the Womb for kicking thier mother to hard or the wrong way
This country has Major issues, with Drugs, Gangs, Guns etc I am thrilled to see the Police had to Manpower to handle this "INCREDABLY" Dangerous Situation.
SNC need SPT simply put Special needs kids need Special Needs teachers who are TRAINED for this type of child most are not
This is like callingthe Fire Department becausethe flames on your Bar-B Q areto hgih, not high or dangerous enough to start ANY type of fire how ever

[Snark]

He's a special needs child. It doesn't say what the condition is - autism is conjectured. For normal, i.e., non-special needs, a swat on the butt is likely a suitable attention getter. But for a SP child, what is needed are people WHO HAVE A FREAKIN' CLUE how to respond to him. For some SP's, even approaching them in an authoritarian manner is traumatic, much less laying a hand on them. BUT HANDCUFFS? AND COPS? Just another successful intervention sponsored by the Department of Education! Hey, that's what you get when you depend on the guv'ment to handle things for you. Like I've said: "I'm from the government and I'm here to help you..." RUN LIKE HELL!

[IAN 2411]

This is all imho a direct result of what my owner likes to call....The pussyification factor.

Back in the day the teacher would have been able to most likely easily taken the child in hand and delivered a few well deserved swats to the childs fanny to chastize him and that would have been it, end of story. Of course back in the day the parents would have raised the child to respect authority to begin with too.

So are you saying denu that there is no need for Special needs schools and S.N.T? Yes let’s beat the special needs child and autistic child and beat the devil out of him/her, fuck his special needs he/she is only putting it on and there’s nothing wrong with him/her. The laws we have in the schools today are to stop dick head teachers that know best but know fuck all doing just that what you have suggested.

Be well IAN 2411

[denuseri]

No please do not put words I have not said into my mouth and jump to conslussions Ian.

As Snark pointed out we dont know what spefic condition existed that makes the kid so "special" to begin with. All sorts of classess get "special needs" clasification without being developmentally specific.

Of course the teachers in any paticular class should be cualified to handle the students in said class on a professional level. Duh!

My remarks were ment to be taken in general, not directed as some silly personal incident specific statement and asumed that the teacher was cualified to teach the cass in the instance provided in the article.

Which means the teacher should also have been allowed the authority to deal with the student directy without undue fear of backlash or reprisal, as opposed to having to resort to calling the cops.

[IAN 2411]

It doesn’t matter what we say or what our feelings are, the bottom line is the teachers were not up to scratch to handle a simple incident. The child was standing on a desk throwing a tantrum, well I don’t know about the rest in this thread, but an autistic child doing that is as basic as it is ever going to get.

I read he was spiting, oh dear what child doesn’t, and again basic training would say get all the other children out of the room. Take away the audience and he will eventually quieten down.

But he was disrupting the whole class and they would not get their eggs pained. Oh dear I mean to say the life of a seven year old is short and we can never go back. I suppose they can’t paint when they are eight, conclusion....the teachers were on a time schedule and pass the buck we need to get home today.

Now if he was on the desk with a whip in his hand I could see the problem, but grown up teachers and a seven year old? Give me a break.

All we have to do now is wait until the teachers bullshit hits the press and we are done.

Be well IAN 2411

[Snark]

Don't worry...the teachers unions and the NEA will straighten everything out.

[thir]

[B][COLOR=pink]This is all imho a direct result of what my owner likes to call....The pussyification factor.
Back in the day the teacher would have been able to most likely easily taken the child in hand and delivered a few well deserved swats to the childs fanny to chastize him and that would have been it, end of story.

As is said in another connection "violence is the last resort of the incompetent."
It isn't neccesary to resort to that, if you have been suitable educated to handle these situations, and if there is staff enough to deal with them. I have been there, and I know.

I am not saying it is as easy as pie or anything, but if you choose that kind of job you should know what you are getting yourself in for, and you should choose to do it properly.

Of course back in the day the parents would have raised the child to respect authority to begin with too.

Well, now, having been a rebel since before I came out of my mom, I do not have a lot of sympathy for that kind of thinking ;-)

Learning to respect authority uncritically? Parents? Teachers? Police? Kings? Gods? Politicians? Any authority would just love that, but I am not happy with the thought of what kind of society that would bring about.

I am not fond of authorites myself, but I do see that there is a difference between bad and good authority. Good is something earned or proven in some way or another, bad is one that just demands without respect.

Speaking of schools, I have often thought that we take schools too lightly. Yes, it is undoubtedly a great gift to be allowed to learn, a gift we may take for granted but which many do not have. At the same time, we take children at their most energetic age, and sit them down on a chair to listen and listen. Basically you have a sentence of 10 years or so without having done anything wrong, a captive audience, too easy for the school not to do what you really should to capture their interest and in generel make school bareable, free of mobbing and such, safe and reasonable interesting.

As I have said, I am saying it because I have been there with that age and it is not just some political idea. Yes, you do need to have authority. But that does not mean just sitting on them mentally speaking. You gain their trust first. Of course there are cases with chidren where you simply have to sit on them first, but then you gain their trust afterwards. Otherwise it is just a sort of 'because I am bigger than you and that's all you need to know.'

Authority and domination should never be taken ligthly.

But in today politically correct world, the teacher doesnt dare touch him for fear of a lawsuit and all sorts of cover one's ass procedural bull crap has to be resorted too, and sadely enough, the parents probabely dont spank him eaither for the same fear that they will get prosecuted.

Yes I can see what you mean, this problem would be bigger in US than where I am where we do not do so many lawsuits, but the problem is still here too.

But it is atill a matter of educting staff, not using spanking.

I bet whats made out to be so shooking in the report is actual "procedure" and school doctrine being applied as it was desgined by lawyers to avoid lawsuits from angry parents who would sue the teacher if she had intervened personally and disiplined the child.

I simply cannot imagine that threathening with the hospital (there is a thought for you) and calling the police is procedure. I think it is incompetence, or perhaps too few staff. Or both.

Of course the story is coming from a onesided source with an agenda, so I have to take it with a grain of salt, it looks like there is a wholle lot more going on than what was reported selectivly in the article.

Certianly it is one-sided, no staff was interviewed and we do not know it from their point of view. Maybe they they not allowed to speak to the press?

But what agenda are you thinking of here?

[thir]

It doesn’t matter what we say or what our feelings are, the bottom line is the teachers were not up to scratch to handle a simple incident. The child was standing on a desk throwing a tantrum, well I don’t know about the rest in this thread, but an autistic child doing that is as basic as it is ever going to get.

Yes.

[Thorne]

It doesn’t matter what we say or what our feelings are, the bottom line is the teachers were not up to scratch to handle a simple incident. The child was standing on a desk throwing a tantrum, well I don’t know about the rest in this thread, but an autistic child doing that is as basic as it is ever going to get.

I don't know about autistic children, but having raised two boys I know that it can sometimes be like training mules. Sometimes you can entice them with a carrot, but sometimes you have to (metaphorically) whack them between the eyes with a 2x4 to get their attention. A tantrum is just that, after all; a bid for attention. Teach them that they're more likely to get negative attention from that behavior, and provide positive attention for good behavior, and you've won the battle.

Take away the audience and he will eventually quieten down.

Until the audience returns. You've just shown him that he can get his way by being disruptive.

But he was disrupting the whole class and they would not get their eggs pained. Oh dear I mean to say the life of a seven year old is short and we can never go back. I suppose they can’t paint when they are eight, conclusion....the teachers were on a time schedule and pass the buck we need to get home today.

Part of what they have to teach is proper behavior in a social situation. Let him get away with such behavior in a classroom at a young age and you'll have him throwing tantrums as an adult as well. After all, he's learned he can get his way and plenty of attention that way.

That being said, it seems rather obvious that calling the police and sending the kid to a hospital was going way overboard. But when teachers are no longer allowed to discipline unruly children, what recourse do they have? Teach him, and the other children, that you will evacuate the class and turn your back on such behavior and you wind up with a class full of potential Saddam Hussein's.

[Snark]

With normal kids, I concur. BUT a key point you made is: "I don't know about autistic children,". With autistic or even bi-polar children, the "typical" strategies do not work. Their brains are wired differently. They respond in ways that may seem bizarre, because to the non-autistic or non-bipolar - they are. It isn't a question of whether the teachers were allowed to discipline the kids and again, I agree that this has been a failing of the school systems over the years. The greater issue is whether the teachers in a class specifically for Special Needs kids had even the slightest CLUE about what the fuck they were doing! And if they did, are the systems and procedures put in place by anyone with a clue, or just to call the cops every time something happens? This behavior is not unusual for autistic kids. What's unusual is the method of dealing with it. Why were apparently clueless teachers assigned to the class? Or why were inappropriate procedures in place? Was this actually a special needs child or was he "diagnosed" by a teacher rather than a qualified professional? Autism is frequently misdiagnosed and mistreated. As is ADD, ADHD, bi-polar and Borderline Personality disorder. All are real, all are as frequently misdiagnosed as correctly diagnosed. Add to this the idea that "mainstreaming" is always the answer (though it apparently wasn't the issue here) and the goal of actually educating the kids in not only missed...it's impossible!

[IAN 2411]

I don't know about autistic children, but having raised two boys I know that it can sometimes be like training mules. Sometimes you can entice them with a carrot, but sometimes you have to (metaphorically) whack them between the eyes with a 2x4 to get their attention. A tantrum is just that, after all; a bid for attention. Teach them that they're more likely to get negative attention from that behavior, and provide positive attention for good behavior, and you've won the battle.

You misunderstand me Thorn, I understand what you are saying and I had four girls that were no different. I was pointing out that if he was as they say a danger to the class then the first thing to do is get the class out of danger. If you can’t remove the dangerous child then remove the ones that are in danger. I would think that the other children were frightened to near death for the teachers to go to such ridicules lengths to have him locked up or hospitalised.

I ask again, is it only the USA, where teachers call the police to take a 7 year old boy to hospital? To take such a heavy handed course makes me believe the teachers had only just left eighth grade themselves. They might just as well beat him with a cane as he will most probably be traumatised for the rest of his life anyway, and take that from someone that has been there.

Be well IAN 2411

[thir]

I don't know about autistic children, but having raised two boys I know that it can sometimes be like training mules. Sometimes you can entice them with a carrot, but sometimes you have to (metaphorically) whack them between the eyes with a 2x4 to get their attention. A tantrum is just that, after all; a bid for attention. Teach them that they're more likely to get negative attention from that behavior, and provide positive attention for good behavior, and you've won the battle.

Do you mean you never had to call the police??

Joke aside, as other have pointed out, these are not your everyday kids and what is termed a 'tantrum' could be a child in serious distress. They do not react like others, and the world is different to them and sometimes very frightening.

[Thorne]

Do you mean you never had to call the police??

I never said THAT! But they were dire circumstances. The little bastards wouldn't turn off the Nintendo so I could watch the Stanley Cup Playoffs. Damned heathens!

I do understand that dealing with autistic kids is different. I've never had to deal with the situation myself, though. I did grow up with an uncle, only a couple of years older than myself, who was born with cerebral palsy and had a rather severe mental handicap. While we had to make some allowances for his slow learning speed, for the most part he was rarely treated any differently than the rest of us. Just like other kids he had to learn that there were some forms of behavior which were unacceptable, and which earned swift punishment. And he did learn, just as we did.

[leena]

Without knowing the special needs of this child, I wouldn't even begin to comment on how the teachers handled it. We just don't have enough information on this child. Articles like this are written to provoke emotion which is drawn on giving the reader as little actual information to get them there as possible. However, if the mother was upset, then that is my first indicator that police involvement was not part of his IEP, or at the very least, handcuffs were not.

But basically, without all the facts, and with the severe ranges of special needs, and the level of violence that can accompany many of them, I don't assume autism just because that's the most talked about...even within ASD there is a huge range of children and their tendency toward violence. Where there are special needs involved, you learn pretty quick that sometimes, there is no such thing a "typical" tantrum. I can tell you as a mother of two special needs children that people who stand back and make assumptions about me and the way I handle my children, when they have less than 1/2 the story, if any real facts...are annoying. Most people wouldn't be able to take a step in my shoes, never mind get the running start I need each day, to care for my children.

[Thorne]

However, if the mother was upset, then that is my first indicator that police involvement was not part of his IEP, or at the very least, handcuffs were not.

From what we've read here, I would hesitate to base any opinion on the attitudes of the mother, too. I've seen too many instances where parents have blamed the school, teachers, administrators, coaches and anyone else they can think of because their child was caught doing something he shouldn't have been doing. I even had a parent swear to me that her child would NEVER lie after he lied right in front of me.

I would like to hear the teacher's/police side of this story but, as noted elsewhere, the unions and board of education are not likely going to allow that to happen unless and until the case winds up in court.

[IAN 2411]

From what we've read here, I would hesitate to base any opinion on the attitudes of the mother, too.

Wait a minute! the mother was called at the same time as the police, but from what i gather the police took him away before she arrived at the school. So there was not really any point in wasting her time, they should have told her on the phone tough shit your boy is locked in cuffs and on his way to lock up. How can she lie about what happened she was not there? I also think that leena had some very good points that were not missed by me.

Be well IAN 2411

[leena]

I guess I can say the mother was surprised that cuffs were used, as if it never crossed her mind they would be. She did not seem surprised about anything else. That tells me the use of cuffs was no in the IEP, or she wouldn't have been surprised.

I can't speak for all parents, but for me...I'm pretty much a realist when it comes to my children, and what needs to be done to work within their needs. I hope it doesn't come to handcuffs and police, but sometimes...it does. Unfortunately age can have little to do with that.

[TwistedTails]

The other thing i cant make out is is it only in the USA that you call the police to take a child to hospital? Mind boggeling.

I doubt if it just the USA and Yes, it is a common practice here. Schools now have "Resourse Officers". These Officers are used when students do not obey. I have more to say on that practice, but its nothing good and uses words like facism and thugs. LOL

Cheers
Twisted

[thir]

I doubt if it just the USA and Yes, it is a common practice here. Schools now have "Resourse Officers". These Officers are used when students do not obey. I have more to say on that practice, but its nothing good and uses words like facism and thugs. LOL

Cheers
Twisted

I would be interested in what you have to say, and I do not think you need self-censure. We have heard so much about freedom of speech lately, and surely people can say what they like, as long as it is not personal attacks and the like.

I am quite distressed by a number of seemingly unrelated things that go on, that all seem to me to point towards two things:

One is that the state takes upon itself more and more power over our individual lives, and I feel that things are going too far.

The other is that society seems to be stressed out and - I don't know what!?? - so that there is little or not room for people who are not exactly what the powers that be thinks they should be. They create 'a disturbance' in the (more or less) well oiled machine of daily work, and must be taken away pronto or medicated or what not.
It can sound quite boot-camp like at times, at least that is how it feels like here in UK, in some circumstances.

I know I haven't thought it through, and I know that there are lots of cases where you have to do something, but it still nags me. I feel that more and more individual freedom is lost in the buisness-as-usual machine.

Any comments on this would be greatly appreciated. Any comments.

[leo9]

if you have been suitable educated to handle these situations, and if there is staff enough to deal with them.

And that, I'm guessing, is the root of the problem. One of the many consequences of the long-running American belief that anything done by the government is a waste of money (except wars) is that public education has been run into the ground, with teachers trained on the cheap who are only doing such a badly paid and unpopular job because they can't get another one.

(I learnt the background here from my oldest son, who is teaching in the US because it was a job he could walk into with a British diploma. US schools will hire anyone with a teaching qualification from another country, because they are so much better trained than the American ones.)

Naturally this goes double for special needs teaching, because properly done it costs more money than the usual kind, but the parents are too few to be a voting bloc, so it gets less. The only thing teachers are expected to do is keep the kids from doing anything that might open the school to a lawsuit. With that as the top priority, naturally they hand it off to hospitals or the police, or anyone else they can, whenever it gets difficult.

[leena]

I can not comment on all things that have been written here, but one thing I will point out is that teachers are responsible for teaching our children. At what point does a child who is clearly not in a "learning zone" become not a teachers responsibility? Without knowing the details, I can feel that the teacher was doing what was in her power to continue teaching the other children in her class. She does not have one pupil. She must continue her job and educate other children in her class and remove the child who no longer in a position mentally and emotionally to learn.

I think it's unfair to expect a teacher, or even a couple teachers in a classroom to be trained to deal with anything and everything. The teachers are there to teach, and they should understand how best to teach children of different ability levels, and learning styles. THAT is special needs teaching. Special needs teaching does not mean physical restraints and being able to handle every shit storm and hairpin turn with ease. They are human...they are teachers not flipping miracle workers. Ideally a child with significant emotional challenges would have an aide. Aides are paid even less, and educated even less than a teacher, but they are responsible for the 1 on 1 with a child. Our schools are a place for our children to learn. They are not mental wards where our children can and should be receiving psychiatric and mental health guidance. To expect the teacher to do that, when they are responsible for 10-20 kids...is unfair. That's not what they are there for. They are there to teach, not to be a 9-3 place for a mentally/physically/emotionally disruptive child who can not learn. When the children are not in a spot where they can learn in some capacity, or when they become a danger to themselves or others, they should be removed. I'm not saying cuffs were needed, but I don't think that removing the child from the classroom was the wrong call either.

[SadisticNature]

I like the first comment on the article itself which is: "Where the heck was the school counselor? The school social worker? The school psychologist? What in the world is the school thinking? Was there no one available who is trained in de-escalation and restraint, why call the police? This is why cutting so called "non-essential" services like school based mental health is rediculous! I work in a public school and cussing, spitting and jumping on tables in not a reason to call the police, it's a cry for help...where were the helpers?"

I think unfortunately this is the kind of stuff that happens when they slash educations non-essential services to the bone. Good luck getting someone with a teaching degree, and all the psych qualifications to deal with these problems without any outside support when you want to pay a pittance.

[IAN 2411]

Police quiz boy over thrown apple

Press Association – Thu, Jun 30, 2011

Police investigated a complaint that an apple was thrown by a boy and bruised the …

Police have launched an investigation after officers woke a 13-year-old boy to quiz him about throwing an apple at school.

Father of three Clive Lindoe, from Great Horkesley near Colchester, Essex, said two officers called at his home at 11.20pm on Saturday to quiz his son Charlie.

The visit came after a complaint that Charlie had thrown an apple and bruised the arm of a fellow pupil at St Helena School in Colchester.

Mr Lindoe told the Essex County Standard: "The officers were absolute bullies and scared the life out of my children.

"They forced him into signing a piece of paper promising not to do it again."

He added: "It's just kids growing up and messing about, but the other child's parents felt they needed to contact the police.

"They came round here being brutish and bullying and scared my children very late on a Saturday night - I had to get them out of bed."

A spokesman for Essex Police said: "We have received a complaint from Mr Lindoe, which will be investigated.

"An appointment has been made to speak to Mr Lindoe to take details of his complaint on Thursday.

"While a complaint is being investigated, it would be inappropriate to comment any further."

........................................

What can I say....it’s no wonder the UK police get no respect from even the people that pay their wages for them to be bullies? Damn all will come of the investigation, I think the higher up in the police they are the more bent they get. I think it is time to kick them out and start again, because the days where the police solved real crimes where flushed down a police toilet in every town in the UK. I expect that little exercise harassing a 13 year old boy at 11.30 pm went down as another solved crime. How bloody pathetic.

I just thought I would tag this report on to show we have Dick Heads in the UK police as well.

Be well IAN 2411

[thir]

If this had been a case of persistent bullying I would say the invovlement of the police was justified - they can't seem to stop that anywhere and it does so make a hell of the children's life at school.

But one thrown apple is far fetched in the extreme.

[IAN 2411]

If it had been the case of persistant bullying then why didn't the school use their might. If it was a case of bullying that does not justify the 11.30pm call. If it was a case of persistent bullying i am sure the paper would have reported that too, if only to stir the muddy waters.

Be well IAN 2411