Out of body religious experiences

[TomOfSweden]

I apologise dearly for stirring up this and then not returning until now. I work too much right now so I'm not going to have time to log in for a while.

1) We've never ever had any reason to believe in anything supernatural. No proof has bothered to show up. Nothing measurable of verifiable. This isn't fundamentalism, it's about how we draw conclusions. Every person has seen something supernatural....We've all done it. But it's so easy to explain away, because our senses are wonky. Anybody who made it through primary school should understand that if we can't measure it in a lab, (what ever it is) we shouldn't bank on it. Just look at how often witnesses of crimes get it completely wrong. We see things we want to see. All the time. That's how humans work.

What Dawkins does is treats the scientific theories in religions as any other scientific theory. That's taboo in today's world since we seem to like to give special status to religion. We don't want to poke and prod at it. My conclusion is that the religious knows they are living a lie but like this fantasy world they've created and don't want anybody standing up in the boat.

I think the reason for this has to do with two fundamental functions that religion and especially organised religion fills.

1) It gives a purpose to life.

2) It gives a framework of rules to make life easier for everybody.

I think these two need to be replaced before anybody will even listen to reason.

I hear a lot that if everybody would follow the Bible the world would be a better place. If we only would live an honest and kind life bla bla bla. All religions and communities in the entire world have come up with the same basic rules to live by so we really don't need to care about the commandments. It'll sort itself out naturally.

These are the only unique Christian Commandments. They're a bit different depending on sect, but...
Thou shalt have no other gods before me
Thou shalt not make for thyself an idol
Thou shalt not make wrongful use of the name of thy God

All the other ones are the human commandments. We really don't need to remind ourselves to be honest. Most people are. People only break them in extreme situations but we like to remind ourselves about other peoples short comings, to make ourselves feel special. I think the world can live without these commandments without perishing.

And as far as common traditions to follow. It's just traditions. They're not intrinsically linked to the supernatural.

Next is the purpose of life. That's a trickier one. I grew up in a secular society where everybody was expected to find their own purpose. Even though my parents where religious I was told to find my own way in life. I can't really imagine living in a world where authority figures tell me that if I'm good I'll go to heaven. But I do think that people need to find a real purpose in life before taking the leap.

These two points is where Dawkins fucks it up. He's a die hard scientist and finding out stuff is his purpose in life. I think he's missed the social bit.

I've got nothing against religions or organised religion. I think it's good for the world and I think they have done and do a lot of good. But I'm against belief in the supernatural. It's retarding our world and is mideival superstition. And no, that isn't down to faith. Just the fact that evolution is at all still a debate in USA is extremely serious and proves my point.

edit: Sorry, I'm an idiot. Stressed out of my mind at the moment. My whole point was that we can be religious without being super-naturalists. With listening to reason, meant just this.