Quote Originally Posted by denuseri View Post
(though personally it would be refreshing for a change if while debating such things you would refrain from calling everyone;who doesnt believe exactly as you do, stupid, deluded, crazy or on drugs just once, I can assure you that just becuase one disagrees with anothers views on sprituality, it is not a foregone conclussion that they are in any way dimminished in their capacity for logical thought or incapable of being insulted by such sophistry)
This comment upsets me, denuseri. I've always tried to go out of my way to make sure I don't call people here names or try to denigrate them in any way. I've said repeatedly that people are free to believe what they want, I have no quarrel with that. And I most certainly don't consider them to be stupid because of their beliefs.

If someone talks to God she's praying, a devout person, perhaps a true believer. I might believe she was being silly but I wouldn't come right out and say it.

If someone tells me that God talks to him, I'm likely to believe he's deluded. I probably won't say it, but I'll think it. He may believe what he says, but that doesn't mean he's right. It doesn't mean I'm right either, but you can decide where you would place your bet.

If someone tells me that God not only talks to him but wants him to kill non-believers, I have to think he's crazy. And I'll say so. Loudly. To anyone who'll listen.

As for the drugs comment, which I believe is what may have set you off, I was referring to the practice of primitive "holy men" to fast for long periods, or to use mind-altering drugs, to stimulate visions which would fuel their belief in a spiritual world. It was in no way meant to imply that one had to be a drug-crazed loony to believe in such things. But let's face it: anyone who has read the Book of Revelations has to believe that John was using something pretty potent to have such visions. Or, like any good writer of fiction, he was making it up as he went along.

So I'm sorry if I implied any such things about anyone here. It's not my intention to belittle anyone for their beliefs. But if they profess those beliefs in an open forum they have to expect to be called on them. If your faith isn't strong enough to withstand such discussions, perhaps you should reexamine that faith.

I've spent my whole life letting people make outrageous claims without evidence. I've reached a point in my life now where I'm willing to stand up and call their bluffs. The world is getting crazy out there, and religious fanatics are among the craziest. Muslim crazies flying planes into buildings, or killing and maiming young girls for the "sin" of going to school; so-called Christian crazies picketing at the funerals of American soldiers; Christian leaders claiming that God is punishing the people of Haiti because their ancestors had the audacity to cast off the shackles of slavery; pedophiles hiding in the churches behind the robes of their leaders. The time for ignoring such nonsense is over. We have to fight these ideas, and these people. Or we'll all be dragged down into the darkness of fundamentalism.