Imigration

[MMI]

No, the law says they cannot enter the country without due process, which I consider a just law. It says nothing about their value, only about their rights. And ours.

A matter of opinion .. oh, you're just about to say that!

A matter of opinion.

yup ... I prefer mine

I'd love to see you prove that. I'm not just talking about money, or food, either. I'm talking about services, medical care, all the benefits citizens gain by paying taxes, which the illegals gain without paying.

I can't - I'm repeating what I have been informed by people who do know. The Independent, for example, tells us that if the illegals were able to pay taxes (and they would if they were allowed to work legally) we would be £1bn better off http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...uk-472164.html. That's a significant sum, even if it's an American billion.

Furthermore, if we deported them, it would cost us £4.7 bn while leaving them where they are gets the nasty, filthy jobs done cheap and still provides a £6bn boost to the economy (I suppose that includes the £1bn quoted above). A net profit of £1.3bn.

As for the benefits paid for by tax payers, they are not obtainable without proof of elegibility ... at least not here. So illegals can't claim them and the suggestion that they are stealing such benefits from honest tax-payers is just a low lie.

If we choose to give them help, that's an entirely different matter.

But Coca-Cola, McDonalds and General Motors pay taxes on the money before it is sent! They pay wages to their employees, who also pay taxes.

True, but my point is, the amount of money sent home by the illegals - who are barely paid enough to keep their own body and soul together - is a tiny amount by comparison. It simply doesn't matter.

No, that's what some people want us to think. They may not pay what you consider their fair share, but they do pay taxes, or they go to prison. (cf. Bernie Madoff, or Al Capone.)

Madoff didn't go to gaol for tax evasion. And wasn't it he who said his secretary paid more tax than he did?

You're right about the wealthy not paying their fair share, and the country can only tolerate it because the poor pay more.

No, I don't ignore that. I have stated, repeatedly, that the best way to stop the flow of illegals is to crack down on those who hire them. And I mean crack down with a vengeance! Long prison times and very steep fines. That should be the first step in any attempt to control illegals.

If you're determined to deprive your nation of the benefits it could gain, I agree that this would be the way to start. But if you let them work legally, the slave drivers would not be able to exploit them.

I'm not talking about food or goods, here. I'm talking about services. At least in the US the illegals routinely receive medical and social services which are supposed to benefit legal residents. As I stated earlier, every dollar spent to benefit an illegal alien is a dollar unavailable to help a citizen.

They are cured of their ills and given vast amounts of dole before being allowed to melt back into obscurity to continue sucking off the state and conducting their nefarious practices, are they? It must suck to be an honest tax-payer over there.

I'm not a lawyer, but I doubt that crossing an international border without proper authorization can be equated with simple trespass.

LAW.COM (an American site) defines illegal alien as "an alien (non-citizen) who has entered the United States without government permission or stayed beyond the termination date of a visa".

It defines trespass as "entering another person's property without permission of the owner or his/her agent and without lawf ul authority ..." Can you see the similarity?

"... and causing any damage, no matter how slight." Most illegals don't cause any damage to America, in fact, as argued above, they provide a benefit.

It goes on, "[Trespass] is a civil wrong (tort) ..." Just like English law - not a crime.

I agree, there is no justification for that. They should be treated humanely, but that does not mean that their crimes should be ignored.

What crimes? Those inmates might have a legal right to stay ... they just look like people we don't want in this country.

If it is decided they have no right to stay, they will go.

I would suggest that you also go and live along the US/Mexican border and see just what the illegals are doing. It's my understanding that people there are afraid to go out at night for fear of being attacked by mobs of illegals, and they cannot leave their homes unattended because they will be ransacked and/or burned if they do.

You may also want to take a look at this.

We have rubbish dumps and illegal tippers too.

I happen to live in Leicester, which is destined to become the first city in the UK where the white population will be a minority by 2012. I am quite relaxed about this, and I can assure you that the streets of Leicester are safer than those of Manchester, Birmingham, Nottingham or Glasgow (to name 4 cities at random)