Orgasm Control- The In's and Out's

[tessa]

I was talking with my friend ~waves~ and one of the topics that came up (pun intentional) was orgasm control. We differentiated it from cum restriction and/or denial, but we umm, well, kinda got all caught up in what we were talking about and didn't get very far with what it is and what it isn't.

So, if all you wonderful folks could contribute your ideas and thoughts about the controlling of orgasms, I would greatly appreciate the knowing. So would my friend. And she said she'd be willing to "do" anyone who offered insight here.

~allows time for her jaw to drop open~

Ok, she didn't really say that. But I just had this picture in my head of her eyes going wide with "oh she did not say that!" and I couldn't resist. :D

Anyway, back to orgasm control...pretty please?

tessa :wave:

[sipgirl]

For me personally if he denies me during a scene it becomes even more arousing. I know that eventualy he will grant me permission to cum and when he does I know how much more significantly intense it will be. Not only is the physical release going to be far more intense, but allowing him to have that power, giving him control over my actual body makes me hot!!!!Whew...ok time to go!!

[pixie_dust]

Interesting topic! :)

Let's see...for me, I see orgasm control as being when I'm told, "Not until I tell you."

Of course, when you hear that whispered in your ear and is constantly in the front of your thoughts, it becomes sooo much more difficult to hold back. But, when you are finally given permission, "Now, cum for me!" the orgasm is a gozillion times more intense.

[tessa]

But, when you are finally given permission, "Now, cum for me!" the orgasm is a gozillion times more intense.

"Gozillion"- gosh, that's a big number! ~giggles~

This is exactly the insight I was hoping for. What it is really, how it affects the experience, that "control over my actual body"...

~thinks on that~

Ok, now I'm all "Whew!"

:wave:

[rach]

Cum denial is for me not until i tell you, and for the most part I love it as it does make the orgasm very intense- but occasionally if i'm denied after being taken to the edge too many time i do actually have problems cumming and get very worked up- in a bad way! i seem to have a limit, but i think i'm geting a little better with practice.

[jeanne]

...And she said she'd be willing to "do" anyone who offered insight here.

~allows time for her jaw to drop open~

Ok, she didn't really say that. But I just had this picture in my head of her eyes going wide with "oh she did not say that!" and I couldn't resist. :D




OMG - Laughing my ass off! Darn right I didn't! You are bad. Bad, bad, bad. In a hilarious, fun, and yes - "oh she did not say that!" way. (But still, bad!) :)

With eyes still pretty wide open,
jeanne

[jeanne]

I was laughing so hard I forgot to respond to the actual question!

But, since moans, sighs, groans and those barely whispered pleas for permission just doesn't come across real well in the written word, I guess I have no comment at all. Unless I grab a thesaurus. :)

Ha!
jeanne

[tessa]

I was laughing so hard I forgot to respond to the actual question!
That's because when I'm bad, I'm so very, very good. ~^5's with the ghost of Mae West~


But, since moans, sighs, groans and those barely whispered pleas for permission just doesn't come across real well in the written word, I guess I have no comment at all. Unless I grab a thesaurus. :)

Ha!
:32: Somebody spank her!

:p

[tessa]

but occasionally if i'm denied after being taken to the edge too many time i do actually have problems cumming and get very worked up- in a bad way!

I can imagine that happening to me. Not a good thing at all. Wonder how to avoid that? :confused:

Thanks, rach. :)

[nk_lion]

Tessa, a suggestion, why don't you propose orgasm control to Daredevil, and tell him he can control the intervals between each one, for an hour, day, or perhaps maybe a month :D

[Ozme52]

For me personally if he denies me during a scene it becomes even more arousing. I know that eventualy he will grant me permission to cum and when he does I know how much more significantly intense it will be. Not only is the physical release going to be far more intense, but allowing him to have that power, giving him control over my actual body makes me hot!!!!Whew...ok time to go!!


Careful hun... because it he hears that... you may find out more about denial than you care to learn.

[Ozme52]

I was laughing so hard I forgot to respond to the actual question!

But, since moans, sighs, groans and those barely whispered pleas for permission just doesn't come across real well in the written word, I guess I have no comment at all. Unless I grab a thesaurus. :)

Ha!
jeanne

You j? At a loss for words? Hard to believe...

Under what cir-cum-stances might that happen? :icon176:

[Ozme52]

I can imagine that happening to me. Not a good thing at all. Wonder how to avoid that? :confused:

Thanks, rach. :)

The right dom... one who's paying attention.

[jeanne]

You j? At a loss for words? Hard to believe...

Under what cir-cum-stances might that happen? :icon176:

I know. Shocking, isn't it? I think I hear ice cracking under my feet - is that hell freezing over? Why yes, yes it is. :)

Ice skating,
jeanne

[Ozme52]

Now to the question...

tessa

Your orgasm is your most intimate expression of your sexuality, your sensuality. When you give yourself in service to a dom, what better way for him to express himself, than by taking full control of your gift to him.

All else is a by product.

Pleasure for the dom to use that control in a myriad of ways.
Pleasure for the sub to be so well used.

[tessa]

Tessa, a suggestion, why don't you propose orgasm control to Daredevil, and tell him he can control the intervals between each one, for an hour, day, or perhaps maybe a month :D

:eek:

NO thanks, nk. But how "wonderful" of you to think of such. :32:

~huggles~


The right dom... one who's paying attention.
You said that just the way it needed to be said.


Now to the question...

tessa

Your orgasm is your most intimate expression of your sexuality, your sensuality. When you give yourself in service to a dom, what better way for him to express himself, than by taking full control of your gift to him.

All else is a by product.

Pleasure for the dom to use that control in a myriad of ways.
Pleasure for the sub to be so well used.
There is no better way. No better way to express it, control it or have it controlled. And your insight allows me to create a whole new "file" for something I already thought I knew all about. Can't wait to get to the filing. A most moanful answer, Oz. I do appreciate your words here.

jeanne? Hell only freezes over up there where it's too freakin cold. Come back down here where it's warm, we'll find some hell near a beach somewhere and we can go skinny-dippin. ;)

I'm learning something here, people. Oh, stop with the gasps of surprise. :rolleyes:

This is good learning. Thanks!

[Ozme52]

You said that just the way it needed to be said.


There is no better way. No better way to express it, control it or have it controlled. And your insight allows me to create a whole new "file" for something I already thought I knew all about. Can't wait to get to the filing. A most moanful answer, Oz. I do appreciate your words here.



So tessa... does that mean I win the prize? I get to 'do' jeanne?

[tessa]

So tessa... does that mean I win the prize? I get to 'do' jeanne?

(Just to keep those eyes of hers wide open and that luscious mouth slightly parted...ok, a lot parted)

Sure, Oz. You get to "do" jeanne. I mean, that's what she intimated to me (I just said I was kidding and she just said she didn't really say such a thing 'cause of the contest rules and all). So it's not like you need my permission for the go ahead...or the go behind, for that matter. The prize is yours (and oh, what a prize she is). :)

I really am bad. But so are you, Oz. I'm in grand company. :blurp_ani

She's gonna kill me dead. Yes, she is.

Eh, she'll torture me first, so it's all good. :p

[Ozme52]

Eh, she'll torture me first, so it's all good. :p

Maybe we'll undertake to do that together... :blurp_ani

[princess_of_pain]

...but occasionally if i'm denied after being taken to the edge too many time i do actually have problems cumming and get very worked up- in a bad way! i seem to have a limit, but i think i'm geting a little better with practice.

Good to know I'm not alone on this one... :)

[tessa]

Eh, she'll torture me first, so it's all good Maybe we'll undertake to do that together... :blurp_ani

Well, there's my hell right there! No need to go looking for it. Although I was wanting to visit the beach...

But for double the torture, yep, I'll toss the beach notion. And for me, that's saying something.

Woohoo!

She's still gonna kill me.

:wave:

[gagged_Louise]

Maybe we'll undertake to do that together... :blurp_ani

You should ask moptop rather than jeanne to assist in this Oz, she has a definite switch streak.

[tessa]

Now how did this turn into "torture tessa" time??

Oh yeah, I'm bad. That's how. :o

~sneaks out before it gets crazy~

[gagged_Louise]

I have a feeling you're bumping into a kind of semi-hard limit here, Tessa; you want to be owned in this devious sense and at the same time you're dead scared of it.
*grins and watches Tessa run*

[jeanne]

Now how did this turn into "torture tessa" time??

Oh yeah, I'm bad. That's how. :o

~sneaks out before it gets crazy~

Yes. Yes you are. "torture tessa" time? Hmmm, I'd like to see that for myself. Why yes I would. :)

[tessa]

Yes. Yes you are. "torture tessa" time? Hmmm, I'd like to see that for myself. Why yes I would. :)

Now who's the bad one, hmm?? jeanne is, that's who!

I'd like to see that too, actually, self-voyeur that I am. I'll bring the camera, okie dokie?

;)

[jeanne]

And a particular, not to be named, outfit, perhaps?

[gagged_Louise]

And a particular, not to be named, outfit, perhaps?


handcuffs and gag included. :D

[Ozme52]

:hubba:

[tessa]

I have a feeling you're bumping into a kind of semi-hard limit here, Tessa; you want to be owned in this devious sense and at the same time you're dead scared of it.
*grins and watches Tessa run*

Louise! Shh! ~shoves my secret back under the rug~


And a particular, not to be named, outfit, perhaps?
~nods lots~

[Ozme52]

<<== Humming to himself:

School days,
school days,
oh those lovely school days,
plaid skirts and stockings and tall high heels...

[Logic1]

Your orgasm is your most intimate expression of your sexuality, your sensuality. When you give yourself in service to a dom, what better way for him to express himself, than by taking full control of your gift to him.

All else is a by product.

Pleasure for the dom to use that control in a myriad of ways.
Pleasure for the sub to be so well used.

Very well put Oz. I couldnt agree more.
:wave:

[moptop]

You should ask moptop rather than jeanne to assist in this Oz, she has a definite switch streak.

:D Thanks, Louise! Yes, and I'm looking for more practice. Ladies... feel free to visit me. My doors are open. And no doubt various other things as well.

I totally agree with Louise that Tessa is coming up a soft limit here - after all, in the previous thread, she managed to go as far as getting her master to come along and say he wouldn't use cum restriction - but she opens up this thread all on her ownsome - of course, you can give control of your orgasms without cum restriction cumming into the affair! Orgasm overload, Tessa?

As to the question... orgasm control. It is not specifically about denial or permission. It is not specifically about restriction, or over-load. It is not about on-demand, on-command. It is all of those things, but the fundamental thing is - your orgasms belong to him (or her). You give that control over to him/her, as their most fundamental and basic right of ownership.

The actual practice of it all - well, it doesn't happen just like that, no - not for me, anyway. I mean, some people may find they can cum on demand with no effort at all - I am no-where near that! Especially if previously much denied, like rach. You plateau, and getting yourself off that plateau can be hard.

Oz - you said it was about 'the right dom... one who's paying attention'. That makes me think that the permission thing (or maybe at least during the training stage) is actually about the dom saying yes, when it is inevitable or necessary anyway - not quite sure what I'm thinking there - yes, the dom needs to know the sub well enough to know when she's going to get to that plateau, I suppose. Don't know - further detail on what you're paying attention to would be great?

Some people may find that in a scene they can hand over that control quite happily, but out of a scene it is a real struggle: they are not supposed to make themselves cum without his/her presence, for example - and find they just can't resist a play...

Some people may find cum restriction drives them totally bonkers, especially with teasing, and they can't cope with it for very long (break down or cave in and break the rule).

Etc etc...

I am still breaking the rules - oh my, am I ever... in serious trouble right now, in fact. Nevertheless, I am proud that he wishes to own my orgasms and control this most basic and beautiful part of me. I give them to him willingly, except... the flesh is weak.

[tessa]

I totally agree with Louise that Tessa is coming up a soft limit here - after all, in the previous thread, she managed to go as far as getting her master to come along and say he wouldn't use cum restriction - but she opens up this thread all on her ownsome - of course, you can give control of your orgasms without cum restriction cumming into the affair! Orgasm overload, Tessa?
Smart, smart lady, moptop. :)


As to the question... orgasm control. It is not specifically about denial or permission. It is not specifically about restriction, or over-load. It is not about on-demand, on-command. It is all of those things, but the fundamental thing is - your orgasms belong to him (or her). You give that control over to him/her, as their most fundamental and basic right of ownership.
Wow. Wonderful insight here. You do make me think, my friend. :)


<<== Humming to himself:

School days,
school days,
oh those lovely school days,
plaid skirts and stockings and tall high heels
Nice song. While I know your words work for you and yours, here's my version. Maybe we can put the two together and have one hell of a songtime?

School days, school days.
Dear old Golden Ruler days.
Spanking and cumming and little licks,
Taught to the tune of the hick'ry stick.

Now that's a school I want to go to. Yes, mmmhmm. :)

~giggles wildly~

[moptop]

So - Tessa - might I suggest you go to Slothlands? I am quite certain you will encunter what you wish. Pun intended.

[Euryleia]

I just found this thread. I recently began posting a new story to the library that uses orgasm control as a teaching point. I'm putting an exerpt from 'Boss Lady' here. Let me know if I've captured it properly. :0

*****

“I want you here.” Rachel pointed at a spot on the carpet that was bathed in sunlight from the window. “I want you to touch yourself. Start with your breasts. Lift them toward me and stroke them as you would want a lover to touch them.”

Amy quickly obeyed. She ran her palms over her nipples, which hardened quickly under the touch and Rachel’s gaze. She pinched the nubs until they ached. Her hips were thrusting into the air, searching for a touch.

“Bring your hands lower. No, don’t touch your cunt yet. Slide your hands over your skin. Touch your belly and legs. Doesn’t that feel good? Now, run your fingertips over your butt. Can you still feel where I spanked you yesterday? Good. You can stroke your inner thighs now. You’re wet, aren’t you?”

“Yes, ma’am. I’ve been wet all day.”

“I know you have. Open yourself to me. I want to see how hard you are.”

Amy pulled her pussy apart. She looked down and was amazed at how prominent her clitoris was. She could almost see it throbbing with need.

“You may touch it. Keep holding yourself open. I want to see, too.”

In no time at all, Amy was panting and writing. “Please, please, may I come?” she begged.

“Not yet.” Rachel watched her pet. She waited until Amy was almost bent over as her muscles clenched. “You may come,” she said.

She watched in fascination as Amy almost collapsed from her orgasm. She ordered Amy to keep going, even though the one orgasm satisfied the younger woman. She wanted to see how many she could get out of Amy. She came again and then again, and was ordered to keep going when she paused to catch her breath.

“Please let me stop.”

“First you beg to come, and then you beg to stop. I'm in charge. Keep going.”

Amy obeyed, losing track of how many orgasms she had. She just knew that her delicate tissue was quickly becoming too sensitive and that her pleasure was getting very close to pain.

“You may stop.” Rachel walked over to her. “Remember this lesson. I’m doing you a favor by controlling your orgasms.”

Shakily, Amy raised her head. “I don’t understand.”

“Wasn’t that first climax wonderful?”

“Yes, ma’am.”

“That’s because you had to wait for it. Those other weren’t as good. In fact, some of them might have even painful. Weren’t they?” she asked.

“They weren’t as much fun,” admitted Amy.

“No. By my controlling when you release, your experiences will be that much more intense. That is much better, isn’t it? If you came all the time, it would mean nothing. Just like those final orgasms.” Rachel tickled the back of Amy’s neck. “You should thank me now.”

Amy shivered. “Thank you.”

“You’re welcome.” Rachel leaned back in her chair and patted her thigh. “Don’t you think you need to come over here and show me how thankful you are?”

End excerpt.

[Flaming_Redhead]

I think most people confuse orgasm control with orgasm denial, including myself, which is why I looked it up. I have practiced orgasm control on myself to induce a bigger, better orgasm. Rather, I used to back before VoodooMan asked me to save all my cum for him, which is not to say that I never cum by myself. Of course, if I do, it's purely for scientific purposes and with permission, such as when I was trying to discover if I could make myself ejaculate. *nods a lot* Other than that, it's usually tessa's fault 'cause she's SO bad! *ggls*


Orgasm control

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Orgasm control (also known as extended orgasm) is a sexual technique involving an active partner taking control over a passive partner's orgasm. The technique can be used by anybody regardless of sexual orientation.

Typically, the active partner will give slow, gentle stimulation to the passive partner, gradually bringing them up to the point very high in the plateau phase where an orgasm is actually building, but will then reduce the level of stimulation to just below that needed to trigger the orgasm. By carefully varying the intensity of stimulation, the passive partner is kept in this highly-aroused state very close to orgasm for a short while, before being allowed to fall back just a little to recover for a few moments. The technique can be repeated as often as desired, but after a few repeats the passive partner's urge to orgasm can become overwhelming. For the most intense experience possible, by consent the passive partner's arms are lightly restrained. The passive partner surrenders control to the active partner by removing the means to effect the orgasm themselves (see Bondage). When the active partner eventually gives the passive partner an orgasm, the orgasm itself may be stronger than usual due to the increased tension and yearning that builds up during the extended stimulation.

The aim of orgasm control is to prolong the powerful sexual sensations that occur during the final build-up to orgasm. It is a form of negative feedback. The physical demands of being kept in this highly-excited state for a time can induce a very pleasurable, almost euphoric state in the passive partner. A caring active partner will also usually derive pleasure from witnessing his/her partner in such an excited state.

Orgasm control requires a high degree of skill on the part of the active partner, enough familiarity to be able to correctly react to their partner's responses, and to get the intensity and timing of the stimulation just right. If there is too little stimulation or if it is reduced too soon the experience is not so intense. Too much stimulation or for too long allows the passive partner to reach the 'tipping point', causing orgasm to occur too early. The real skill lies in knowing one's partner well enough to be able to keep them hovering almost on the very edge of orgasm, thereby maximizing the experience. Finally, and at a time of their choosing, the active partner once again slowly brings the other right up to the point of orgasm as before, but this time continues and/or slightly increases the stimulation for the few extra seconds needed to drive their partner into orgasm.

As the active partner needs to already be familiar with the passive partner's responses, this technique is more likely to succeed when used within fairly established relationships, rather than more casual 'one-off' encounters.

One experience of orgasm control is described in the section called "slow masturbation" in the popular book The Joy of Sex, but any method of stimulation (such as oral sex, sex toys or slow penetration) can be used by the active partner, not just manual stimulation.

Because solo masturbation allows for precise control over the feelings and timing of stimulation, many people practice certain forms of orgasmic control by themselves. A technique known as "stop-and-go" or "edging" is where one will masturbate up until the moment before reaching the point of inevitability at which point climax results, then back down before experiencing a climax. Many report that by repeating this technique several times during a single session it will result in a stronger, more intense climax when they finally allow themselves to go "over the edge", i.e., to the point of inevitability.

Despite the use of light bondage, orgasm control is not considered to be BDSM. It is different from the BDSM practice of orgasm denial as the aim is the giving and receiving of the intensely pleasurable sensations involved, and the period of control is limited to a single encounter.


Erotic sexual denial

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Erotic sexual denial, also known as orgasm denial, is a sexual practice where a person is kept in the plateau phase of the human sexual response cycle for an extended length of time without satisfying climax. This is sometimes a practiced in association with BDSM, and can be thought of as the more extreme version Orgasm control, which ends in satisfying climax. The subject may either be allowed an orgasm at the end (in which case, the orgasm is generally much stronger than normal), or denied one, in which case they will generally feel strong feelings of sexual frustration.

An alternative form of erotic denial is the total denial of all genital stimulation. To ensure a total denial of stimulation a couple may use a chastity belt or other device that physically prevents touch and/or (for males) full erection.

Short-term denial practices

[edit] Tease and Denial
Main article: Tease and Denial
Tease and Denial describes when a person is stimulated until orgasm is near, and then stimulation is reduced to keep the person being stimulated on the very brink or "edge" of orgasm like with Orgasm control but without the promise of orgasm at the end, or abruptly ceased all contact to prevent orgasm completely. If orgasm still occurs after removal of stimulation, it brings less pleasure than usual, and is considered a "Ruined orgasm", as opposed to being a "denied orgasm". Alternatively, the release phase (for men) might be prevented by some sort of constriction (blocked orgasm). Depending on the relationship, subjects might be repeatedly teased to the point of orgasm several times, causing feelings of intense arousal and physiological and psychological need.

If Bondage (BDSM) is employed in a Tease and denial session, it is called a "Tie and tease"


[edit] Tie and Tease Activities
Main article: Tie and tease
A Tie and tease can be thought of as an extended sexual stimulation performed on a subject who is restrained. This is practice is often an integral part of erotic denial. It is notable that in BDSM discussion, negotiation usually focuses on the activities which may or may not be agreed, rather than the emotion generated (unless at an unacceptable level). Tie and tease activities are physically as well as and psychologically intense because the intense feelings of sexual frustration are enhanced by the sensation of helplessness induced by the bondage.


[edit] Non-orgasm ejaculation
As an alternative technique, it is stated to be possible for a man to be trained to ejaculate, but to do so without achieving orgasm. This requires practice and discipline on the man's part. One key to the technique is to remove all stimulation of the penis at the exact moment when an orgasm would otherwise be achieved; the result is a full expulsion of semen but without the concomitant relief. According to websites on the subject, this technique enables a man to be kept in a state of denial indefinitely, yet maintain prostate health more thoroughly than the alternative technique of prostate milking.


[edit] Total Denial
The practice of total denial is where the subject is not allowed any sexually gratifying touch. The subject may or may not be brought to arousal through other means, depending on the situation.


[edit] Ruined Orgasm
Main article: Ruined orgasm
Ruined orgasm is a technique used to deny a person the physical pleasure of release, while still allowing climax. It is often performed by removing all stimulation of the genitals at the moment the subject crosses the brink of orgasm.


[edit] Long term denial
Most men can masturbate to at least an orgasm each week; without that spontaneous nocturnal ejaculation is common.[citation needed] Suppressing this can result in an intense emotional and psychological impact.[citation needed]

Subjects can be kept in denial for extended periods of up to several weeks (periods around 2 to 4 weeks each time are often quoted as being safe subject to proper skincare and regular checking). Many, however, suggest that this is very subjective, and often informally suggest a shorter period such as 3 days or a week between release instead—especially when starting.

Beyond that, the long term consequences for denial are unclear, although there are negative effects implied by a recent Australian study, which found that frequent masturbation may help prevent prostate cancer in men.

Most sources seem to agree that the body will spontaneously reabsorb sperm, but that the prostate fluids should be removed fully and regularly, if not through orgasm then via internal prostatic massage (known as "prostatic milking") to reduce the risk of prostate cancer and inflammation, atrophy (orgasm involves the prostate muscles) or tissue damage to the prostate. It is also said that if erection is inhibited for long periods the skin of the penis becomes less elastic which may cause pain or other difficulty in the future.

Normally, during sexual arousal, sperm and ejaculatory fluid accumulate in these glands backing up behind valves in the ejaculatory ducts. When fluid pressure reaches a high enough threshold, the valves open and the urethral bulb fills, triggering the ejaculatory reflex and muscular contractions of orgasm, which empties the glands.

Without orgasm, prostate milking may be used to help to flush out the build up of toxins which accumulate within the prostate glands. This can be done by allowing ejaculation without orgasm. As most men need penile stimulation to reach the latter, this milking can be done without risk of an orgasm.

Milking involves vigorous massage of the prostrate, during which fluid will be secreted with a pleasurable sensation somewhat like slow urination. After continued massage, the fluid will flow out freely. Once a sufficient amount of ejaculatory fluid has drained, insufficient fluid pressure to trigger the ejaculatory reflex will remain, and no amount of penile stimulation will result in orgasm until the fluid glands are recharged. This may take several hours to several days. Milking can thus be used prevent orgasm and nocturnal ejaculations if applied at appropriately timed intervals.

For females, there are many psychological and emotional issues that turn into physical issues because of long-term sexual denial. For example, many women have claimed that their cramps at the time of their menstruation are less painful because they are sexually satisfied (http://www.ilovefemaleorgasm.com/). In addition, the writers of "I Heart Female Orgasm" assert that it "reduces stress, tension, and headaches." In addition, it "helps one to fall asleep" (http://www.ilovefemaleorgasm.com/).


[edit] Erotic denial as a form of control
Erotic sexual denial, in various forms, is sometimes associated with creating a state of sexual need leading to a more pliable agreeable outlook by the denied party.

Orgasm denial practices can allow dominant males and females to exercise control and training over a highly intimate and psychologically significant part of their partners' lives. This can extend to tolerance of increased stimulation, and training both to hold back, or to orgasm on command. This technique gives the dominant partner great feelings of control and power.

[Ozme52]

Smart, smart lady, moptop. :)


Wow. Wonderful insight here. You do make me think, my friend. :)


Nice song. While I know your words work for you and yours, here's my version. Maybe we can put the two together and have one hell of a songtime?

School days, school days.
Dear old Golden Ruler days.
Spanking and cumming and little licks,
Taught to the tune of the hick'ry stick.

Now that's a school I want to go to. Yes, mmmhmm. :)

~giggles wildly~

I knew I'd omitted a verse. Now I can finish mine.

School days, school days,
Oh those lovely school days,
Plaid skirts and stockings and tall high heels,
Over my knees, spanked until she squeals...

Now... let's talk about the medical pre-entrance exam... :blurp_ani

[Ozme52]

Oz - you said it was about 'the right dom... one who's paying attention'. That makes me think that the permission thing (or maybe at least during the training stage) is actually about the dom saying yes, when it is inevitable or necessary anyway - not quite sure what I'm thinking there - yes, the dom needs to know the sub well enough to know when she's going to get to that plateau, I suppose. Don't know - further detail on what you're paying attention to would be great?


==> Perhaps sometimes but I was referring more to the sub's personality and emotional needs. It's all too easy to treat submissives all the same. To have a "routine" that you put them all through. But that approach is callous.

Yes, I do have some ritual exercises... but "the dom who pays attention" is paying attention to the submissive's individual needs.

Knowing when to apply more pressure, when to back off. When to withhold (and yes for how long) and when to reward. Even knowing how much attention she requires to not be tempted to disobey.

Addressing another concern mentioned... I had a sub whose orgasms were very dear to her. It took her a long time to find her ability to have them. So when, after several play sessions during which I was training her responsiveness to me, my voice, my presence, she wrote me that she could no longer cum without me and had tried... tried several times in fact.

I could have sat back with a big grin on my face... but I also heard/read her dispair. So I called her and commanded her to be obedient and cum when ever I gave permission whether I was present or not. I didn't let her cum while I was on the phone. That would have reinforced the problem. Instead I gave her a whole day of unattended playtime... and she is again very able to please herself... and all the more mine for returning it to her.


The actual practice of it all - well, it doesn't happen just like that, no - not for me, anyway. I mean, some people may find they can cum on demand with no effort at all - I am no-where near that! Especially if previously much denied, like rach. You plateau, and getting yourself off that plateau can be hard.

An interesting observation moptop... All I can say is I continually hear that and continue to disprove it. Timing is crucial. A sense of the sub-ject's mental state and state of satisfaction is crucial. Once again... paying attention...

I'll tell you what thrills me. After a long play session... in the shower, washing up, I get soaped, rinsed, hair washed, conditioned. I turn, gaze into her eyes, lean in, shift my stance to "invade" her personal space (yes even in a shower you have personal space) and whisper in her ear. What thrills me? The shock in her eyes... the way her mouth ovals as she gasps "Oh!" as her body totally surprises her... cumming... and then I tell her I won't let her fall and her orgasm overwhelms her.

After that... my voice is in her head.

[tessa]

So - Tessa - might I suggest you go to Slothlands? I am quite certain you will encunter what you wish. Pun intended.
Thanks for that idea, moptop. I'm afraid I don't have time to blink right now, but when I can see my way clear to Slothlands, I'll put in my application and wait to hear if I'm accepted :)

Well, Red. You have given this idea some thought, I see. What a sweetie you are! ~huggles with boob squishage~ I also had OC confused with OD. hey, put that all together and you have OCD! Who knew all this was so closely related?? ~giggles~

And this part-

The physical demands of being kept in this highly-excited state for a time can induce a very pleasurable, almost euphoric state in the passive partner. A caring active partner will also usually derive pleasure from witnessing his/her partner in such an excited state.

Orgasm control requires a high degree of skill on the part of the active partner, enough familiarity to be able to correctly react to their partner's responses, and to get the intensity and timing of the stimulation just right. If there is too little stimulation or if it is reduced too soon the experience is not so intense. Too much stimulation or for too long allows the passive partner to reach the 'tipping point', causing orgasm to occur too early. The real skill lies in knowing one's partner well enough to be able to keep them hovering almost on the very edge of orgasm, thereby maximizing the experience.
-goes along well with what Oz says. "A good Dom pays attention". He said the same thing, just in a much more concise way.

Hey, Oz? Did you write that article for Wikipedia? Letting them have all your words, are you?? And hey! Stay away from my kink, would you?!? :blurp_ani


Let me know if I've captured it properly.
Oh my. My, my! ~fans self~ Yeah, you captured it alright. Locked it up tight, too. ~moans a little bit~ Wow.

Hey Red, did you read excerpt? If not, don't! You'll end up having one of those "scientific purposes" happen. And I'm not SO bad. Am I?? By the way, we really need to talk about female ejaculation some more. ~nods lots~


I could have sat back with a big grin on my face... but I also heard/read her dispair. So I called her and commanded her to be obedient and cum when ever I gave permission whether I was present or not. I didn't let her cum while I was on the phone. That would have reinforced the problem.
Brilliant. And I use that word only when warranted. Ask Tom. And thanks for sharing your perspective, Oz. It is incredibly helpful.

[Hime]

I'll tell you what thrills me. After a long play session... in the shower, washing up, I get soaped, rinsed, hair washed, conditioned. I turn, gaze into her eyes, lean in, shift my stance to "invade" her personal space (yes even in a shower you have personal space) and whisper in her ear. What thrills me? The shock in her eyes... the way her mouth ovals as she gasps "Oh!" as her body totally surprises her... cumming... and then I tell her I won't let her fall and her orgasm overwhelms her.

After that... my voice is in her head.

um, wow. I think when my husband gets home I'll suggest that we need a shower. :D

I would like to know more about the orgasm-on-demand aspect of this conversation, honestly. During sex we often play the "not until I tell you" game, and I can cum on demand because I've been needing to for a while already. But I've heard about people who can cum on a vocal cue or from non-direct stimulation (one guy swore he could make his gf climax by biting her shoulder, through the magic of conditioned responses). Is that something you can learn to do? What's the training process like?

[Hime]

And Euryleia, that was an awesome story excerpt. :) Very good writing.

[Euryleia]

And Euryleia, that was an awesome story excerpt. :) Very good writing.

Thank you. ~fights blush~ I'm glad you enjoyed it.

[Sir_Russell]

As I am sure I have stated else where I practice orgasm control for mine. She is told very early in the relationship even before I decide whether I will accept her gift, that she can not climax without my direct permission. Yes that is all inclusive. She is to call me if I am not there to grant or deny permission. I know that this training allows growth in many different areas.

First she learns that I am the one in control where it really counts but only because she wants me to be. She has the right to refuse and find a new Dom.

Second, it teaches her to beg, god I love to be really begged, till it becomes second nature to her. These first two are very important to teaching her to let go of personal control and give it to me.

Third, once it has become established she will learn multiple climaxes and to climax on demand when I want it the most. I am deep inside of her and I want the thrill of her climax to take me over the edge.

Third, once she is trained she can experience a climax like no other, the one that goes from my getting her excited then stopping touching her in any way and telling her "cum for, cum for hard, show me how much you love me, cum for me NOW'. I am told that the climax is so mental that it almost hurts her body. Finally I can have her cum by just talking her into it, without any touch by me or her.

Once these have been established cuming by herself is almost impossible and to cheat lol is about the same. At that point I own her and have to screw up big time to lose her.

Other may disagree and that is fine I can only explain what I know

[cadence]

As I am sure I have stated else where I practice orgasm control for mine. She is told very early in the relationship even before I decide whether I will accept her gift, that she can not climax without my direct permission. Yes that is all inclusive. She is to call me if I am not there to grant or deny permission. I know that this training allows growth in many different areas.


I have a question about the sub asking permission to orgasm.
I understand the training and the reasoning of orgasm control, so I also understand the reasoning behind asking permission.
I was just curious as to when permission is granted or when it is denied. Is it part of a certain process, or is it determined by the mood of the Dominant, or how well a sub can beg for it.

I personally do not like begging, but then again I am not used to it, and find it to be a bit embarassing. I would not even want to ask if I could have an orgasm, I would be nervous to do so, I would probably feel that I had failed something somehow.

Sorry if I hijacked this thread a bit.

[Hime]

I have a question about the sub asking permission to orgasm.
I understand the training and the reasoning of orgasm control, so I also understand the reasoning behind asking permission.
I was just curious as to when permission is granted or when it is denied. Is it part of a certain process, or is it determined by the mood of the Dominant, or how well a sub can beg for it.

I personally do not like begging, but then again I am not used to it, and find it to be a bit embarassing. I would not even want to ask if I could have an orgasm, I would be nervous to do so, I would probably feel that I had failed something somehow.

Sorry if I hijacked this thread a bit.

I suck at begging. :p It is definitely a turn-on for both me and my husband, but it does not come naturally.

I think that a lot of us submissives are into what we are into precisely because we have trouble asking for what we need and worry about appearing weak in the "real world." We try really hard to be tough and independent, and it leaves us with a real need to be cared for. A lot of us are used to living in cultures (particularly corporate culture -- notice how many submissives have some kind of white-collar office job) where having needs and limits is thought of as a failing to be eliminated; it's no wonder we seek out those who are willing to give us what we need and respect us for our strengths without disregarding our weaknesses.

So if begging is something that you are interested in doing, it's possible that the process of overcoming your barriers to asking for things and your fear of failure would actually make the experience more gratifying for you. The feeling that "if I have to ask for help it means that I've failed" is probably something that makes your life more difficult, and working on it with your dominant partner could be a really liberating experience. :)

[Ozme52]

We want you to beg us because that is OUR kink. We relish the power you give us when we control your orgasms and begging allows us to wield that power (perhaps over simplified.)

The training... differs from dom to dom, as does the approach. How we arrive at the goal of our sub cumming on cue differs, even the cues may differ... but the goal is the same. Control.


Is that something you can learn to do? What's the training process like?

Yes, you can learn it. The training depends on you and your dom or trainer. I've briefly discussed my approch but am available for ... consultation.

[Logic1]

Euryleia
lovely story excerpt

lovely collection of info you made there FR. thanks

[Euryleia]

Euryleia
lovely story excerpt


Thank you, Logic1. Glad you enjoyed it.

[Wordsmith]

each couple should take the time to define each term for themselves, but in my mind orgasm restriction is you are not allowed to cum for X amount of time or you arre not allowed to cum without my permission. Orgasm denial is you are not allowed to cum period and orgasm control is you are not allowed to cum until I say so.

Those are my personal definitions...like i said...each person/couple needs to discuss and define each term for themselves.

[tessa]

I was just curious as to when permission is granted or when it is denied. Is it part of a certain process, or is it determined by the mood of the Dominant, or how well a sub can beg for it.

Sorry if I hijacked this thread a bit.

You didn't hijack it a bit! You added to it. My thanks. :)



Finally I can have her cum by just talking her into it, without any touch by me or her.
Fascinating. Absloutely fascinating. I can't even imagine that. How much time does it take to develop that sort of ability?


We want you to beg us because that is OUR kink. We relish the power you give us when we control your orgasms and begging allows us to wield that power (perhaps over simplified.)
Over-simplified or not, the insight is invaluable! So appreciating you for this.


I think that a lot of us submissives are into what we are into precisely because we have trouble asking for what we need and worry about appearing weak in the "real world." We try really hard to be tough and independent, and it leaves us with a real need to be cared for. A lot of us are used to living in cultures (particularly corporate culture -- notice how many submissives have some kind of white-collar office job) where having needs and limits is thought of as a failing to be eliminated; it's no wonder we seek out those who are willing to give us what we need and respect us for our strengths without disregarding our weaknesses.
That is another spot of brilliance. Excellently worded. And so very clarifying for me personally. Thank you for taking the time to say it in just this way.

Ma_am, your definitions make perfect sense to me. Not sure if that's such a positive reflection, coming from me... :rolleyes:

:wave:

[sassycat4him]

I have never been told NOT to cum cuz I live such a damn vanilla life, so I don't know how to hold back. that would be interesting to learn how to do and to see what it's like to have a totally awesome orgasm.

[rach]

I find it easier to hold back on demand than i do to cum on command. Not sure why. My experience in mostly o/l so do you think that might be why?

Any answers welcome!

rach

[Sir_Russell]

I have a question about the sub asking permission to orgasm.
I understand the training and the reasoning of orgasm control, so I also understand the reasoning behind asking permission.
I was just curious as to when permission is granted or when it is denied. Is it part of a certain process, or is it determined by the mood of the Dominant, or how well a sub can beg for it.

I personally do not like begging, but then again I am not used to it, and find it to be a bit embarassing. I would not even want to ask if I could have an orgasm, I would be nervous to do so, I would probably feel that I had failed something somehow.

Sorry if I hijacked this thread a bit.

cadence

First do you have any idea how many subs feel just that way, begging is against what we have been trained to do all our lives. Many find that being begged is embarrassing a type of manipulation by the person begging.

Second, Oz stated a an obvious truism that it seems most subs didn't "get". You stated one also that most Doms don't get. So thank you for that.

I hope that Oz and mine comments will help you to know that it isn't failure but success to beg your Dom which will please him very much and, this may shock you too, make him very proud of you and being your Dom. There is nothing else that does that quite like begging.

I have said to all of the sub/slaves that have promised themselves to me that they can get anything they want for me if they go about it correctly. The happiest ones learn that kneeling in front of me and begging sweetly for what they want would only be refused if her request was harmful to her or us.

Can you learn how to beg, yes you can everyone knows how, and begging for a climax when you know it is required is the way to start. I would advise your Master to punish you for each climax you have without permission and for that matter to refuse even the simpliest request if you don't beg him. This training should only be done in private but must be done for each of you to really be M/s.

I don't understand how the power exchange can be complete until this is done, and once you have, excuse the term, mastered it both of you will live the life you want.

Russell

[Sir_Russell]

Tessa

Fascinating. Absloutely fascinating. I can't even imagine that. How much time does it take to develop that sort of ability?


It varies with the lady and not every lady I have trained has gotten to that point. Those that haven't made it fought the training to the point that they were released.

You must remember that sex is really in the head. So to be able to find the stimulation there to climax should not be surprising. Also this is a difficult feat for the Dom/Master to train since it takes a lot of reprogramming, see my reponse to cadence, and the strength to follow through when other events are can be more immediate fun.

The first time he talks you into a climax while driving the car or just talking to you over the phone will make it all worth the time and effort for you both.

[cadence]

So if begging is something that you are interested in doing, it's possible that the process of overcoming your barriers to asking for things and your fear of failure would actually make the experience more gratifying for you. The feeling that "if I have to ask for help it means that I've failed" is probably something that makes your life more difficult, and working on it with your dominant partner could be a really liberating experience. :)

Thanks for your comments Hime, I can personally relate to much of what you stated. I think that the hardest thing to do is break down and overcome the feelings of what you feel is wrong, uncomfortable and taboo.


We want you to beg us because that is OUR kink. We relish the power you give us when we control your orgasms and begging allows us to wield that power (perhaps over simplified.)




I hope that Oz and mine comments will help you to know that it isn't failure but success to beg your Dom which will please him very much and, this may shock you too, make him very proud of you and being your Dom. There is nothing else that does that quite like begging.

I don't understand how the power exchange can be complete until this is done, and once you have, excuse the term, mastered it both of you will live the life you want.
Russell

Yes both you and Ozme have answered my question. Thank you to both of you.
I sometimes fail to fully understand the reasoning behind certain things that Dominants want to achieve, I suppose due to the fact that I have an extremely difficult time letting go of ingrained thoughts and habits.


You didn't hijack it a bit! You added to it. My thanks. :)
Thanks :) , I should stop doing things like that.
I think one of the worst qualities I posess as a person and submissive is my insecurity in myself.

[jeanne]

WARNING: sappy comment ahead - but do not confuse me with anything/anyone fluffy or pink.

This thread and the discussion within are the reason why Oz and Sir_Russell will be always be the Doms whose opinions and insights I value the most. Gentlemen, your patience with our questioning and your willingness to share your thoughts and feelings and insights with us is invaluable. You're doing a great service (besides just making me sigh :) ).

Searching, yet again, for my thesaurus,
jeanne

[Mycokizyrz]

Just thought I'd ad my 2 cents.. I begin by finding what a sub is accustomed to as far as frequency of orgasm, and how strong their sex drive is. The key is to make it fun, not annoying. Then try to maybe push the limit a bit, until you find a denial time that's enjoyable. I so love to have a sub right on the edge, willing to be there for my pleasure and begging to cum. I'm actually more sadistic in orgasm control as opposed to inflicting pain. However I do love to tease while giving a good spanking.

PS - West Side Academy is also open to enrollment ;)

http://www.bdsmlibrary.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3981

[pixie_dust]

We want you to beg us because that is OUR kink. We relish the power you give us when we control your orgasms and begging allows us to wield that power (perhaps over simplified.)

Oz, that is an excellent summary. For myself, when I see his response to my begging it brings me even closer than I was before.

[jeanne]

I love this thread, for lots of reasons....

It has some really good information and deserves a bump.

So

BUMP! :cool:

[Ozme52]

So..... let the begging begin!!!

[caligirl{Rob}]

*smiles* jeanne this is so helpful and kind of you to bump *grins*

i have enjoyed reading all of the thoughts on this and have paid careful attention to both Sir Russell and Oz's comments as this is much the same path MR takes *sighs blissfully* though the more i beg somehow the slower His speech becomes and has been known to add a "so pet wants/needs to cummmm....hmmmm well she cannnnnn....eventually, but not yet"

and Oz...Doms have "kinks" GASPS! ...smiles

*smiles*

and cadence i was right there with you in that it was difficult for me to learn to let go of my reserve and beg, but the rewards have been immense.

hugs!
cali

[jeanne]

and cadence i was right there with you in that it was difficult for me to learn to let go of my reserve and beg, but the rewards have been immense.


I always struggle with that first "please". I have to fight myself to say it. But after that, they just slide right out, easily.

And those immense rewards....well. Yes. *yearning sigh*

[Sir_Russell]

orgasm control may not be the basis for the Life but it is the basis for my section of the life. From the very first meeting I am telling her that she can't cum without my permission when we are together and that if we move on to any real relationship then she can't cum ever with out my permission.

I then send her cards and emails designed to make her hot and wait for the phone to ring.

[caligirl{Rob}]

orgasm control may not be the basis for the Life but it is the basis for my section of the life. From the very first meeting I am telling her that she can't cum without my permission when we are together and that if we move on to any real relationship then she can't cum ever with out my permission.

I then send her cards and emails designed to make her hot and wait for the phone to ring.

*smiles* how lovely!

i am honestly slowly getting to the point where i understand how much more complete i feel giving over control to Sir

[Logic1]

lol Russel. You sound soo much like me it is silly at times. Cant say I complain either.
Great minds think alike, isn´t that what they say? :)

[Wedjat]

Cards and e-mails? Hmmmm. : )