A Request for Guidance

Hello my fellow Doms,

I come to you with a common problem, I need guidance. I am a 23/m/Dom and I don't want to be one of those posers who thinks training a sub is to have him/her do whatever random sex act their unimaginative walnut brains come up with and if they disobey they get whipped. That is a child playing with napalm, its dangerous and stupid. I want to take this culture seriously. My request is this, help me to acquire the knowledge and tools needed so I may deserve the trust of an experienced sub. I know that it is about my needs first but how to read a sub and her needs, when she deserves punishment and reward. How to punish a sub if you are not a sadist (I am not one). How to reward a sub and not seem weak. Finally I wish to learn the psychological undercurrents of the D/s relationship. If i could also chat with an experienced Dom to pick his brain that would help a great deal. Thank you for your time.

KingSean

First, let me say that I think it's commendable that you're asking these questions and seeking this information.

Second, your questions are difficult to answer, because it depends. :)

Your first goal should be to come to know yourself and what you're looking for fully. You say you're not a sadist, but that can be a relative term. I wouldn't call myself a sadist, for instance, but I like the little whimper I get from my kitten when I push things past a certain point -- you might not get anything from something like that.

What you're looking for and what your style is will determine the type of submissive you look for. Curiously, they aren't all the same. The punishment/reward dynamic will be shaped by the two individuals involved.

For instance, you might consider caning a punishment, but for a submissive who really loves a good caning, it might have the opposite effect. Being put in a corner and told they're a disappointment might be a minor punishment for one submissive, but be devasting to another. You have to learn the individual's psychology and then tailor punishment both to them and the infraction.

KingSean,

First I would invite you to read my resent post, On being a Dominant which gives my general thoughts on what it means to be a dom. I congratulate you on what I believe you expressed in your post which was a good basic understanding already of what being a dom is not.

I think however, you are seeking more practical information about how to learn the practical means of having a relationship with a submissive and of expressing your dominant nature. To a small degree my answer depends upon whether you intend to be involved in the lifestyle in a real world or online environment. I say small way because many of the principles apply to both.

The very best way to learn is to find a mentor or mentors. For example if you wish to learn to be proficient at flogging, you need to be trained by someone who has those skills. It is quite difficult to master such a technique by reading about it. That is the way I learned to dom, by serving under experienced mentors. However, a good deal of education can be obtained by reading, both what is available in print form and online. I would be happy to recommend some of the more authoritative books on BDSM that I think you would find helpful if you are not aware of them already.

As far as mentors, if you have local BDSM groups, that is a great place to start. Also attending demonstrations at local BDSM conferences and munches would be helpful. Finally, there are some very quality and experienced doms on this site and while I won’t mention names, if you peruse the forums I think you will find those who have posted here that speak with authority and wisdom and you can easily identify them. Most doms are more than happy to assist a novice and help them learn what I personally refer to as our craft.

Good luck and best regards,

J

I too am pleased by your request for guidance. I am a Domme with a RL sub male who I adore. His desire to increase his tollerance for pain brought us down a particular road one we both enjoy. His service is a gift one I respect. We must always keep in mind the emotional state of those in service.

Read and explore. You will find your way.

"one of those posers who thinks training a sub is to have him/her do whatever random sex act their unimaginative walnut brains come up with and if they disobey they get whipped."

I think that is the cutest sentence I read regarding that topic so far, and it´s oh so true.

I do not have very much advice as I am a sub myself, but as I live with my hubby who is also my Dom and always has been, I can tell that much:
1. I do not remember a single incident where I regarded a reward as "weakness".
Being a Dom does not mean behaving like an impolite asshole at all times, but I think you already figured that out.
2. It is true that not all subs (or rather, their likings) are alike. But I daresay that is also valid for Doms.
3. Finding out exactly what turns you on/what you like is really good advice. It increases the chances to find someone like-minded.
Do not expect to find a Ms Perfect who matches you in all areas, though.
Figure out what is really important to you, and what you can do without, and go from there.

I wish you good luck.

All good advice. I'll add...

This is one of those times that finding for an experienced sub might be a good idea.

She would be able to advise you before and after without topping you during a scene. She would have probably met the best and worst among doms and posers.
Watching her, you would come to know how an experienced sub acts... and then, you could begin to mold her into what you want. You will see her strive to please you... and when she can't, she will make it clear that she should be punished... and will suggest punishments she doesn't like...

As you come to know yourself, you will realize she is either exactly what you want... or you will go your separate ways and you will be ready to train one to your own specifications.

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Some may suggest the best way to learn is to sub yourself to someone... and if you have that inclination... fine, but it's not necessary imo. Not if you have a good head on your shoulders and a good sub on your lap. ;)

Very very very well said oh great dom that is Oz, I couldnt say it better Sir.

The only thing I might add, is "read" the posts in these forums, dom/sub/switch etc, the multitude of differeing perspectives can garner you some valued wisdom.

I also reccomend seeking out experienced submissives on line that are willing to roleplay eaither directly, or indirectly with you or discuss D/s phycology from the submissive perspective. I have found that to be a very safe way for a sub or dom to practice the inheirent "therory" of D/s that lack a partner in real life.

Of course the best way to go about that in chat isnt to go whisper crazy, you wont get anything substantial from such activities. Patience and honesty go a long way.

Some experienced submissives (like myself and many others) are more than willing to lend a hand in the training of a dominant, after all if he works out to become a good dom, she has done a great service to one of her sisters of the collar.

The real key is not only in mastering your own mind, but hers as well.

[QUOTE=Ragoczy;706033] I wouldn't call myself a sadist, for instance, but I like the little whimper I get from my kitten when I push things past a certain point [QUOTE]

Not a sadist? MY ASS!!!!!

-kitten

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Originally Posted by KittenSnicker

Not a sadist? MY ASS!!!!!

-kitten

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Well, I guess I do have to defer to your ass as the subject-matter expert here. ;)

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Originally Posted by Ragoczy

Well, I guess I do have to defer to your ass as the subject-matter expert here. ;)

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hehehehe too funny!!!:4:

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Originally Posted by julialive1

His service is a gift one I respect. We must always keep in mind the emotional state of those in service.

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...best comment i have read all day...

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Originally Posted by Ragoczy

Well, I guess I do have to defer to your ass as the subject-matter expert here. ;)

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hahahaha, too funny!

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Originally Posted by KingSean

Hello my fellow Doms,

I come to you with a common problem, I need guidance. I am a 23/m/Dom and I don't want to be one of those posers who thinks training a sub is to have him/her do whatever random sex act their unimaginative walnut brains come up with and if they disobey they get whipped. That is a child playing with napalm, its dangerous and stupid. I want to take this culture seriously. My request is this, help me to acquire the knowledge and tools needed so I may deserve the trust of an experienced sub. I know that it is about my needs first but how to read a sub and her needs, when she deserves punishment and reward. How to punish a sub if you are not a sadist (I am not one). How to reward a sub and not seem weak. Finally I wish to learn the psychological undercurrents of the D/s relationship. If i could also chat with an experienced Dom to pick his brain that would help a great deal. Thank you for your time.

KingSean

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I am a slave, but nevertheless I just wanted to say "listen to her", whoever she may be that you decide to take on. Listen with every part of your body- including gut instinct. It always amazes me (even after 13 years together) that my Master can just see inside my mind and know exactly what button to push...or avoid. Sometimes, what subs/slaves say with their voice is not what their eyes are telling you for example. That's all I have to provide you...listen. Also, thank you for your respect for our lifestyle. Note: My Master just said for me to tell you to listen as much as to what is NOT being said as you do to what is said.

I do believe that all of you gave great advice but feel compelled to make a comment about Oz's advice. In some ways it is wonderful getting an experienced sub ....but that also depends on certain things. I myself went from being a sub to being a Domme and actually had a VERY experienced Sub to play with. I believe that all beginers have this rookie feeling of not having the confidence. That experience sub didn't make me feel very confident even though he was trying to be helpful....his suggestions made me feel weak and made me feel like I coudln't get it right. It wasn't until I had a Mentor teaching me and only AFTER She taught me did I gain some confidence. Then I couldn't WAIT to play with that experienced sub again to show him just how far I had come. But like I said earlier .....It depends on the person. It was only my circumstances that an experience sub didn't really serve as a great purpose and learned a great more from a Domme who had was willing to teach me. Though now I'm debating whether to post this ....knowing full well that experience sub comes to this site LMFAO

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Originally Posted by denuseri

Very very very well said oh great dom that is Oz, I couldnt say it better Sir.

The only thing I might add, is "read" the posts in these forums, dom/sub/switch etc, the multitude of differeing perspectives can garner you some valued wisdom.

I also reccomend seeking out experienced submissives on line that are willing to roleplay eaither directly, or indirectly with you or discuss D/s phycology from the submissive perspective. I have found that to be a very safe way for a sub or dom to practice the inheirent "therory" of D/s that lack a partner in real life.

Of course the best way to go about that in chat isnt to go whisper crazy, you wont get anything substantial from such activities. Patience and honesty go a long way.

Some experienced submissives (like myself and many others) are more than willing to lend a hand in the training of a dominant, after all if he works out to become a good dom, she has done a great service to one of her sisters of the collar.

The real key is not only in mastering your own mind, but hers as well.

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Beautifully Said

I think that a lot of the fear of doing things 'wrong' comes from the fact that usually, people want to take on a role and (literally) act according to what they think that role entices.

Well, I'm not an experienced DOM, but I never act. I'm me. Always.

So, my little addition to the subject is: in the first place and foremost, be yourself. Don't put up an act, especially if you're not sure to be able to carry the role through to the end... ;)


JJ

All that has been answered is good advice from those that know, or at least think they know. Being a non sadist, I can give you adivce in one word, that applies to anything or any method that you might think of or want to apply to your relationship, and that one word, is PATIENCE. You have to have patience when dealing with a sub/slave in any actions. Your descisions on punishments have to deal with the serverity of the infractions. Some might warrent server punishments, while others may not. Your satisfaction comes from the idea that you rule, and your words are to be obeyed. Now I condesnse this by saying that the word were ones that could be obeyed, one needs to give a sub/slave an out, something that can be achieved without compromising both positions. With this said, I hope that you find a way that works for you, since the ways of others, are not always compatible with what YOU want out of the relationship.

The trick is melding what your sub wants with your needs. The more she is satisfied, the more she will be open to suggestion and willing to satisfy your needs too, making things mutually beneficial. Search the forum for the partner checklist, you may be surprised at some of her responses.

I find that reading stories is a good way of finding things that turn you on and ideas for what she would like. The best thing of course, is to find a mentor but that can be hard depending on your area.

Good luck, eh?

Maybe this might help with your question as relating to punishment in a D/s relationship.

PUNISHMENT - A SIR'S PERSPECTIVE

I have long thought about punishment and it's role within a D/s relationship. These are my beliefs and feeling in regard to this issue. There are three types of punishment:
1) Scene or play induced
2) Corrections for minor infractions
3) Punishment for blatant disregard for the rules


SCENE OR PLAY INDUCED

This is the usual form of punishment in a real D/s relationship, it's purpose isn't so much a a form of punishment as for play and fun. Many scenes may call for what most people perceives as punishment. Be it spanking, whipping or other forms that induce some use of pain to either heighten one sensitivity, play out a part a scene calls for or as a response to an action by a sub or Sir. It use is for fun and mutual satisfaction only. It may involve a sub teasing her Sir to get his reaction where he turns and grabs her and maybe places her over his knee and spanks her, some may call it topping from the bottom but I call it playful drama that can add an element of fun into the relationship. Playfulness is critical to a well rounded D/s relationship, it creates a close bond between the Sir and his sub that every successful relationship must have. The Sir uses punishment as a playful aspect in the relationship, he gets to use it and the sub gets to enjoy the attention and punishment. This is always within the limits that have been established earlier in the relationship, it is never meant as a true form of punishment.
Sometimes a scene or enactment may require punishment to create the proper illusion/atmosphere to allow the scene to move forward and flow as required to be completed. Again this is done for pleasure of both partners, not to truly punish the sub. No, its about allowing each to share that special bond between a Sir and his sub. She gets the torment she craves to fill that special need and the Sir gets to control how and when it is to be dispensed. The Sir creates the scene, he spends a great deal of time planning it, working out all the details as to the flow and direction of a scene. Yes it is understood that the Sir has the power to deviate from the plan to take into consideration how a scene may unfold or how his sub reacts to what is happening to her in a given scene. Few scenes completely follow the plan the Sir has devised, it's more of a guideline to the direction the Sir wants to take his sub.
The punishment is diverse as there are stars in the sky, it can be cruel and harsh or mild and subtle, the Sir dictates the levels based on his goals and reactions of his sub. A true Sir is ever mindful of the needs of his sub, altering the punishment with the intent of satisfying both and if his intent is to test her limits, that is only done if he truly believes she is ready based on all the knowledge he has painstakingly worked to gather about his sub based on her needs and not his own desires. Mutual satisfaction is the only goal in this form of punishment.


Corrections - minor infractions

This style of punishment is for those little things that may bend a rule or a situation not planned out fully by the sub to meet Sir's instructions. I may be as simple as she was to be home, dressed and kneeling for Sir by 5:30 pm, because she didn't leave enough time to account for traffic and was 10 minutes late. Was the infraction based on a willful action by the sub, no, maybe poor planning but her intent was to meet Sir's goal and accomplish it. We are all human and that also applies to the sub, sometimes things do happen that prevent her from completing Sir's orders. She went out with every intention to complete the order but something happened to delay or prevent her from accomplishing her given task. Punishment under these circumstances is more of a reminder that planning is also part of being a sub. A Sir will never under any circumstance gives an order that can not be met so the sub will fail. That is being a bully, not a Sir. Any order given by a Sir must be based on realistic expectations that under normal circumstances the sub can complete. Again the role of punishment isn't about hurting the sub, but a correction she will remember, to help keep her focused on her responsibility to complete Sir's order in the future. Any correction should be based on the infraction, being a couple minutes late doesn't deserve, lets say a whipping. Just because the sub was a few minutes late doesn't mean she deserves such an extreme response from the Sir. Maybe a more fitting punishment would be to have her stand in the corner for ten minutes to reflect on how she will in the future leave more time to account for rush hour traffic to get home at the appropriate time.
Any time a correction style of punishment is to be used, the Sir must first explain what infraction occurred and why it deserves correction. Then the hard part for many Sirs; to be silent and truly listen to what the sub has to say in her defense. She may for instance tell you that she allowed extra time for rush hour traffic but a major accident delayed her past the appointed time. A respectful Sir would see her reason as legitimate and no correction is warranted as it was an unforeseen situation beyond what one would reasonably expect. No sub should be punished for situations that exceed reasonable expectations, never.
The next step if after discussing the infraction and still finding it worthy of punishment is for the Sir to administer the punishment. This is always to be done in a respectful manner and no humiliation should ever be used. Humiliation under these circumstances is unwarranted and very destructive to the sub well being and the relationship as a whole. I will at a future date discuss humiliation and what place it has in a D/s relationship. A caring Sir would never even consider humiliating his sub as a means of punishment. Like I had said earlier, any punishment must fit the infraction. Another example is the Sir had a dinner date planned for them and the sub completely forgot and made arraignments to do something else. This is a major infraction, again no wilfull act on behalf of the sub but no extenuating circumstance arose to excuse it, she simply forgot. Again the Sir must remember that the sub is only human and everyone does make mistakes when he plans the fitting punishment. Under these circumstances a more appropriate punishment may include a sound spanking or loss some privileges as it is at the higher end of infractions.
Now that the punishment has been meted out and served, the Sir should always take the time to reaffirm his love and respect for his sub. Take a few moments after the punishment to reconnect with your sub and let her know you are proud of her for accepting her punishment and listen to her apology if given and always accept it graciously. Now here is the most single important thing a Sir must remember about punishment, once served by the sub the infraction is dead and can "never" be raised again against the sub! What would the purpose of punishment be if the infraction is always brought up again and again and thrown in the subs face, that just means you are continuing to punish the sub over and over. That is unjust and if a Sir should ever do that he needs to take some time and look at himself as he has failed miserably as a Sir and unless he changes his attitude he doesn't deserve to own a sub. A sir must always remember his responsibilities as a Sir when punishing a sub,he must be loving, caring, nurturing and respectful towards his sub even as he punishes her. I have heard some Sirs talk about how they are firm as a Sir and go on about how they verbally chastised the sub and cruelly punished her for minor infractions. All I can say to them is your a coward and a bully who hides behind the mask of a Sir to justify your real nature. They have no true concept of what a Sir is or what submission is all about.They display immaturity and I'm afraid they have screwed up many a good sub. I have seen empty shells that were suppose to be a sub, beaten down and robbed of their very life essence. I shed a tear whenever I see this as I have witnessed the death of a truly precious and beautiful gift to the D/s community, a sub and her submission. My word to any sub, never allow a Sir to degrade or take any part of you away, if he isn't a caring and nurturing Sir I suggest you get away as fast as you can. There are many Sir's out there looking for a sub who will make your life a wondrous thing, not a living hell and would cherish you with love and respect, which you deserve.


Punishment for blatant disregard for the rules

Now here things get tricky. What should a Sir do with a sub that blatantly disobeys an order given by the Sir. Well, before any punishment can even be considered the Sir has several things he must do first. Determine if he has done or not done something in regards to his sub that may have forced her to act out. He must also learn the real reasons why the sub acted in such a manner. The last thing he looks at is the sub herself after he has completely exhausted the two previous questions. A Sir knows by the very nature of a D/s relationship is that he is ultimately responsible for everything that occurs within the relationship. As they say, with great power comes great responsibility and those words reflect the true nature of being a Sir. A sub blatantly disobeying an order means there are some very serious problems in the relationship that need addressing.
When a Sir looks at himself he needs to ask these question and answer them truthfully:
1) Have I asked for something beyond what I can reasonably expect of my sub. Have I exceeded her limits?
2) What failure in her training by me has left her in a position that she feels unable to complete said task?
3) Have I fulfilled my responsibilities to my sub and is she acting out because I have failed to meet her needs?
4) Can what I have asked cause mental or physical harm to my sub?
5) Have I lived up to how I portrayed myself to my sub when we first met?
6) Has my orders placed my sub in a position to cause her humiliation or ridicule if she completed the task?
7) Were my orders clear and concise, not leaving it so open to interpretation so that the sub might have thought you meant something else that violated her limits?
8) Have I been respectful, nurturing, caring and loving as her Sir?
9) Have I allowed the relationship to become stale or stuck in a rut and stopped learning and exploring new things with my sub?
10) Have I truly been listening to what my sub has been trying to tell me when we talk?
Now after the Sir has answered all these questions and still finds no reason for the sub's behavior he needs to go to the next step. He needs to talk with his sub and "truly" listen to her reason for her actions, not debate them, just listen and hear. Once he has a very clear and accurate picture for the sub's reasons he needs to go back and with the new information go over the 10 questions again. Should after this the Sir can find no reasonable explanation for the sub's behaviour he needs to go to the next step.
The next step is to sit down and fully discuss without anger and an open mind what is the problem and what can be done to correct it. Maybe it is signaling the end of the relationship as they two grew apart and not closer together. The reasons are endless and I can't cover every aspect, but the need to see if there is a solution to the serious problems the relationship has is paramount. Unfortunately there is no punishment to solve these problems, they would only make matters worse. Hard work by both parties is needed to reconnect as Sir and sub if they both wish to save their relationship. So there is no punishment related to blatant disrespectful attitude of a sub as its a cry for help to save the relationship or that it needs to end.


Sir W

P.S. I wish to give credit to my wonderful part time sub minx, her help and guidance has allowed me to grow and become a respectful and caring Sir. Without her at my side I believe it would have taken years longer to get to this point I am at right now in my growth. Big hugs to my precious and beautiful "minx". Love Sir W

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Originally Posted by JimmyJump

I think that a lot of the fear of doing things 'wrong' comes from the fact that usually, people want to take on a role and (literally) act according to what they think that role entices.

Well, I'm not an experienced DOM, but I never act. I'm me. Always.

So, my little addition to the subject is: in the first place and foremost, be yourself. Don't put up an act, especially if you're not sure to be able to carry the role through to the end... ;)


JJ

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I've realized recently that I have been trying to act to fit a role and not allowing the role of Master and DOM fit to who I am as an individual. It goes without saying that it was very hard and stressful to keep this up.

I'll take your advice and act as I feel and not as I "should".