A catch-22 situation?

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10-30-2006
phantasy_seeker

A catch-22 situation?

Okay, I'm having much the same problem as the other subbies who posted in the 'Ever feel like you're just not in the mood to be a sub?' thread. However, ironically, I -am- in the mood for sexual, erotic BDSM play. What I haven't been in the mood for, for the past few days, is real discipline. My dom and I have been in an online D/s relationship for several months now, and there is a basic underlying set of rules which govern my conduct towards him at all times. Each time I break those, a punishment ensues, which is generally not fun, but not beyond what I can take.

Unfortunately, what has been happening all the past week or so is only the real discipline, not the play. I wish I could tell him 'I wish we'd play more and you'd relax on my behaviour a bit!' However, that would be some nefarious topping from the bottom, as some of you might agree with me. Also, a catch-22 would occur. See, if I explain my frustration and feelings to him and he plays more and restricts less because it is what I wish, that would not make me happy at all. Kinda defeats the whole purpose of the BDSM play, to me. Oh, it would be different if I begged him, in role, to do so and he did. But if I spoke to him as an equal partner and he did it because he didn't want me to be unhappy... it would not satisfy me at all.

See the dilemma? Argh. :32:
10-30-2006
cookiecat

Quote:

Originally Posted by delia

if i were you, i would take a time out with your Dom, maybe each of you write down your feelings and thoughts, and then talk it out.

Just my two cents.

phantassy - i agree with delia about writing it down. i was asked to keep a journal. i am not much for analyzing my feelings and writing them down, it somehow makes them too real. at first it was hard to do. actually sometimes it still is....

however, writing in the journal always seems to have a positive outcome. it gives us both time to reflect on the issue. i get to write down the things that are sometimes difficult to say "in person." he now has a way to see things from my point of view. usually, in our next time together, he'll find a way to bring up my concerns and it always makes me feel better when we've worked through that.

by the way, keeping a journal isn't always about the concerns...it's solidified many of the positiive aspects of the relationship as well.

good luck! cookiecat
10-30-2006
Warbaby1943

I think there is a lot of good advise above and I think some of the best is telling you to find a way to communicate with meaning. You don't have to necessarily try to tell him that you want more play time. Tell him how you feel about the overall relationship and what you really want to get out of it and let him come up with the idea that you may need more play time. I think once you get to really knowing someone and really taking the time to talk things over more is picked up on by things that may actually be left unsaid then you may think.

I know I would never want to be doing things that weren't enjoyed by the person they were intended for and it would bother me if that person didn't find a way to let me know. I would feel like I was wasting both of our times if it weren't something we both enjoyed. Especially in an on line relationship all you have is words to make yourself and your feelings known. He has no way of looking into your eyes and telling what you want. You must find a way to let him know. So far, and I'm knocking on wood, that hasn't happened to me, and I'm sure of this, but I would want to know if it did.

Communicate, communicate, communicate.
10-30-2006
fantassy

Is there a reason you are unable to comply with the rules? If your Dom enjoys disciplining you, he is getting his enjoyment when you break the rules. If you eliminate that opportunity for him to punish you, I would expect he is going to want to play in order to get his enjoyment. That's not topping from the bottom - that's being a smart obediant sub.

fantassy
10-31-2006
slaveanita

What fantassy said. That's the first thing that went through my mind - Are you actually behaving yourself well enough or has he raised the bar recently? Is he setting unrealistic expectations of you? Are you trying hard enough to be pleasing?

I like that you don't want to top from the bottom, I also hate the feeling of having to ask for something outside of the scene. If it were me with my Dom, I would appeal, in role, for mercy and complain ( very subtley!! ) that he was punishing me too much. He would then more than likely justify his position - I think a Dom should explain WHY he is doing something. Maybe you aren't up to scratch or maybe he's just being bloody minded. If the latter, he should probably pick up that he is pushing you a little too far. If the former, you have to pull your socks up. If that doesn't work then you will have to bring the issue up out of role but try in-role first.
11-02-2006
phantasy_seeker

Mmm. It's not really that he isn't paying me attention, or anything of the sort. It's more of just... perhaps I just feel like reverting to the 'lighter' side of BDSM, where play sessions are actually nice 'punishments' for 'being bratty'. Ya know? Currently, I often feel like I'm getting more of the 'not-so-nice' part of BDSM (aka the real discipline), versus the 'fun' part of BDSM (aka the play). But if I said this to him and he reverted just as I wished, I would not really enjoy the play anymore! That's the kind of dilemma I'm in.

I have brought up the 'real discipline' issue to him, however, more of just asking him if he really wanted that. And he said yes. Indeed, I have to admit that it's true, it IS needed to enforce the dynamic between us. Where would the real dominance and submission be if he had no real threats (for lack of a better word, hope you guys get what I mean) to govern my behaviour? Argh. Guess I'm just really confused here.

slaveanita and fantassy: There is no reason, bar my own mischievousness and rebelliousness. Make no mistake, this IS what I want, but I am also a rebellious person by nature. *g* Most of the time it turns me on to have my rebellious nature utterly tamed and controlled, but recently... I've been wishing for more freedom in how I speak with him. I miss the days when we could tease each other with playful insults, perhaps. When the D/s was not there yet. Yet I certainly don't want to lose the D/s...

Maybe I'm just having the classic syndrome of wanting to have my cake and eat it too. >_<

P.S. Journalling is certainly a good idea for many... However for me, it just never seemed to work.
11-02-2006
Ozme52

Perhaps a variation on one of my themes...

Be naked waiting for him in a submissive position, your favorite "punishment" toys in front of you.

When he arrives, and before he can say a word, just utter this simple statement. "No Master, I don't want to do that."

Regardless of what "that" might be... I'd say you would be due some nice punishment.

Good luck.
11-02-2006
lily27

I think you already know what the answer is. You need to have a conversation. No, it won't be easy, and it probably won't be much fun neither. But if this is important to you, I don't think there is any other way.

I do understand about having a rebellious nature. I am a bit like this myself.

*pauses for all of the gasps of surprise*

If I were in a relationship where I could never cause a bit of trouble, I would be terribly unhappy. I am fortunate that my Sir let's me do this....and then reels me back in when I need it. Of course there are certain levels of respect that I am expected to exhibit towards him, and the hammer comes down quite quickly if I slip. But he still allows lily to be lily....and for that, I am forever grateful.

I expect the two of you need to re-negotiate some of the rules in your relationship. I don't expect it to be easy. But I don't possibly see any other way.
11-03-2006
Sir_G

lily makes some good points p_s and communication is the hub of every good relationship. Oz's suggestions are born out of a great deal of experience too and worth trying.

It is always hard to give advice when the dynamics of a relationship can change quickly and when we are not familiar with how you interact. But if I know one thing it's that most Doms love to play and if you tell him that in a respectful and loving way, he will be more than happy to oblige. I would.
11-07-2006
LikelySuspect

theres definately a difference between topping from the bottom and figuring out how to get to a place where you both get what you want. mention it subtley if you're worried about saying it straight out. if he enjoys punnishing you, and thats not what you're in the mood for, then be a good girl for once *winks* lol.
11-09-2006
phantasy_seeker

As many of you have suggested, we've talked, and kinda came to the conclusion that maybe we need to take a few steps back in the D/s for now, since RL is hard on both of us. Indeed it's difficult for anyone but us to understand the situation enough to see the best path for it; still, input is always helpful. :)

Asides from the personal problem, though, I was just wondering if anyone else had this dilemma, as it still isn't really resolved in my mind. Like, if the dom plays with you as and when you want, you worry if he is just doing it to please you. Yet, if he doesn't, you feel neglected and unhappy. Giving strong hints, I believe, falls into the first category.

Tough life us subbies have. ;)
11-09-2006
fantassy

Admittedly I am not the most submissive of submissives, but why to you think there is something wrong with stating your wants? I am free to hint, suggest, glare, & subtly express my displeasure. Knowing my wants, my Dom gets to grant my want or ignore it at his pleasure. He wants to have as much information from me as possible when he makes his decision. You make the assumption that if you tell a Dom your desire, he will grant your desire. More likely, sometimes he will and sometimes he won't. I know my Dom gets lots of pleasure from knowing what I want and withholding it from me (at least for a while). So you won't be less of a submissive to telling your desires, he'll just be a better informed Dom.

fantassy
11-09-2006
Timberwolf

Quote:

Originally Posted by fantassy

Admittedly I am not the most submissive of submissives, but why to you think there is something wrong with stating your wants? I am free to hint, suggest, glare, & subtly express my displeasure. Knowing my wants, my Dom gets to grant my want or ignore it at his pleasure. He wants to have as much information from me as possible when he makes his decision. You make the assumption that if you tell a Dom your desire, he will grant your desire. More likely, sometimes he will and sometimes he won't. I know my Dom gets lots of pleasure from knowing what I want and withholding it from me (at least for a while). So you won't be less of a submissive to telling your desires, he'll just be a better informed Dom.

fantassy

I agree with every word of that. I would much rather have a sub with ideas, and the freedom to express them. It doesn't mean every idea will come into being, but I'd still like to know all the same.