.Quote:
Originally Posted by Widget
just for the record Widget .. i'm 100% straight. no gray here.
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.Quote:
Originally Posted by Widget
just for the record Widget .. i'm 100% straight. no gray here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfscout
hmmm looks very close
STrips for inspection.. I don't mind .. you won't find it ... chuckles.
I did find a smartie though. I am not however going to eat that ...
"Gorean Lite" oh thats very good.
:) We coined that phrase when I begged Dragon to be my Master and I was not sure if he wanted a full kajira. He explained that although he practised some of the Gorean principles and philosophies, he was not a hard core Gorean nor did he wish to own a slave again. So we say that we are "Gorean Lite" and that I am his "kajira-missive". :pQuote:
Originally Posted by ***Kate***
seems you two found the best of both ........ * smiles *
is having a very Gorean-Lite fantasy going on right now. chuckles.
I am bumping this thread back to the top since during the year since this thread was last posted on people are once again asking about BDSM and Gor.
Personally I wish this thread was made a sticky so it would not be buried and the knowledge contained lost to new forum readers.
I don't think I have ever read this thread through... thanks for bumping it, Ironwolf sir.
Personally, it has been my experience that anyone who actually lives a Gorean lifestyle day to day, in reality, have simply found the Gor books to contain concepts and philosophies that struck a chord in them. They haven't gone through the series in order to concoct a list of strict "Gorean Dos and Don'ts". There is just something there that speaks to them, and they pick and choose what works for them.
Anyone who is trying to "out-Gor" someone else, who spouts off about the importance of serves, and dances, and third-person speech has generally never had a real life slave kneel at his feet.
Ironwolf, a few posts (and many months) ago you tried to steer the conversation towards "the gift of submission". I would love to continue this in a Gorean concept if anyone is interested.
Thanks for joining us Lily
Please go ahead and give us your thoughts on "the gift of submission". I am sure others will join in.
well good gravey gertie, i guess i best stop lurking and post allready,,Sorry to see that many feel that those calling themselves Goreans are sooo judgmental , its sad to see people be discriminated against. Honestly after reading many of the things people say about us (yes i would catagorized myself as a gorean, though i am also a wife, a student, a follower of bahai, etc etc ) i am not surprised that they feel the way they do,,
first of all, not everyone that calls themselves "Gorean" believes or follows a set of sci fi fantasy books like its a bible nessesarally, many infact like reading the books etc and a few of us even enjoy bdsm style sex on occassion, though that is a completely seperate issue for many of "us", but the underlining philosophy that Dr. Lange is expressing through the medium of his book series is the real "meat" of what motivates the Goreans my owner and I and a small group of other people consensus of truth to be. things like :
truth, love and honor being paramount in our "Gorean" practice: there is great bueaty in many of the books, and as far as philosophical truths no more inate than any other written word,, for are not all works containing "words" the works of mankind
The good Dr. didnt just make these concepts that some of us called "goreans" find admirable up out of thin air conserning the way or beliefs a typical "gorean" should or shouldnt expouse. Much of what he put in the books is infact based in painstakingly well researched detail from actually human history and or philosophical and theological customs and practices. The books are a medium used to explore Normans ideas conserning our own world and how its changing,, its actually very close to the trancendentalists and utilitarian philosophical models.
I wouldnt begin to even say that someone elses beliefs in a deity or thier sexual practices or philosophical guildlines are wrong up to and including thier dom, sub switch status and or sexual orientation(within reason i am human of course and dont nessesarally agree with pedafiles etc etc) and its certianly not what being a "Gorean" is all about to sit in judgment of others.
Question:"what is as clear as a diamond yet as elussive as the wind?"
answer: honor
this is a question prompted from the Gorean warriors code in the books, sound familar? it should its a twist on several martial codes induced by everyone from the spartans to the samurai
i guess my best advice conserning Goreans would be dont judge us like a book by its cover
I have to ask a few questions here since I seem to be confused now.
After reading this thread, I have summised, or at least I think I have, that the Gorean lifestyle is based on certain codes of conduct and certain philosiphies. It is primarily first and foremost a D/s relationship, without BDSM.
Am I correct in my thinking here?
Is BDSM incorporated into the relationship for a few or most Goreans?
It took me two long years to finally figure out where my submissive tendencies lay. I am happiest being a "slave" and from what I have gathered from hearing from others is that my idea of a being slave is no different than a kajira.
I know that I do live a D/s relationship, but with no BDSM at all.
I have kinks and fetishes as well, and now I am experiencing submission with BDSM.
I will always be submissive/slave or whatever you want to call me, without the kinks and fetishes. But I prefer to have both if I can.
Is this the same for Goreans?
I would like to hear about "the gift of submission" as well. That has piqued my interest.
yes the gift of submission is something i am very much looking forward to seeing as well,
to attempt and answer your question cadence :
yes it is this ones and her Masters opinion (for i can not speak for all) that being gorean is a code of conduct first with an strong emphasis of D/s relationships
the bdsm aspect is a secondary consideration for us
Well, from my view, submission is not a "gift". A gift is implied that it is freely given... and can be taken back. That doesn't fit into Gorean context very well.
I once read an excellent essay that summed up this point of view a lot better than I will be able to do so here. I didn't bookmark it at the time, and have regretted it ever since.
Viewing submission as a gift puts the slave on a pedestal. She must be revered and worshipped in order to be granted her "gift". And if you don't keep her happy... well she will just go ahead and take her gift right back.
If submission is a gift it turns the entire concept of D/s on its head. The sub has the control... the power. Now for some BDSMers this is just fine. They believe that the true power lies with the sub. But for Goreans this isn't and shouldn't be the case. How many girls with the true heart of a kajira could ever be really and truly happy knowing that she could defy her Master's orders or get up and walk away at any time?
A kajira submits because she can't help herself... it is a desire that burns deep within her belly.
A kajira submits because a Master demands nothing less of her.
In my relationship, we clearly make the distinction. I didn't give Him my submission... He took it from me.
Gor is definitely a D/s relationship primarily. This is at the heart of Gorean philosophy... Men are generally Dominant, and women are generally submissive.Quote:
Originally Posted by cadence
I hesitate to say anything about "most" Goreans, but some definitely do incorporate BDSM into their lives as well. The novels tell of many instances of physical discipline, but it is just that... discipline. Punishment. Neither the Master nor slave would receive and pleasure from the exchange.
Gor is more of an overall lifestyle than a kink. You will never hear the phrase "bedroom Gorean".
For some, yes. For some, no. In my unscientific observations of the Gorean community I would say that there are a fair number of Goreans who also practice BDSM... just because it is a kinky good time. In my relationship we practice bondage and S&M because it turns us both on... so why would we deny it from ourselves? It has nothing to do with Gor though.Quote:
I will always be submissive/slave or whatever you want to call me, without the kinks and fetishes. But I prefer to have both if I can.
Is this the same for Goreans?
thanku so much well said lilly,,
as far as gifts of submission we like to look at it as: my Master gave the gift to us with his strength of will over me, by bringing forth within himself his true nature in dominance and my true nature to submit to His will, we are thus freed of any other considerations, i am nutured by his dominion over me so that i compliment his desires; for his desires are my own His heart is my heart, His strength fills my soul with love
it becomes like a symphony
i bend like the strings of a violin played by his hand
( I had just finished typing out a reply to all this when just before I clicked the post button I had a 2 second power failure here and all was lost. What follows is an attempt to recreate what I had written :mad:)
What a wonderful group of gorean women we have on this site. It is so refreshing to see so much insight for a change.
For many years as I wandered around the internet I kept hearing about this gift of submission over and over again. I had girls offering it to me as they served me paga in the taverns, I watched as others proclaimed it to the world standing next to a grinning guy in furs rubbing his hands in glee and I thought to myself what in the heck are these people talking about.
Why are these "slaves" wanting to give this gift of submission to me or him?
She should be giving it to herself.
Once she has freed herself to just be submissive (her true self) then she is free to ask for something from me. My acceptance. Her place in the relationship is never in doubt, she is what she is and I am what I am.
I realize that there are many people out there that only play BDSM as a bedroom game and under those circumstances the giving of ones submission and dominance to each other for a short period of time could be deemed appropiate. For a gorean it is sheer folly.
I am a Dom, I do not assume the role with my companion for sex or for the weekend, I help her when needed (training) to be the same way. I am what I am all the time even though it might not seem that way to an outsider.
(ok, I give :) this has turned into the readers digest version of what I wrote before.)
Pro Dom, I hope you are not implying that Goreans do not respect or value their slaves.
A well-trained and pleasing slave is of great value. She brings great honour to her owner. My Master is extremely proud whenever I am commented on postively by another Free Man (I must direct him to this thread for that purpose... thank you for your kind words, IronWolf, sir).
Respect is a slightly different concept, however. He doesn't respect in the sense that he submits to me.... or puts me on some kind of pedestal. But he respects my needs. He respects my knowledge and skills. I certainly don't feel "disrespected" in my relationship.
@ Pro Dom
I think I understand where your coming from but I feel perhaps you have misunderstood my comments in this thread. I do practice Safe, Sane, and Consentual BDSM and do not feel it is in conflict with the gorean ideals. I also think its safe to assume the same holds true with all the goreans I have spoken with in this forum.
I can not speak for all that claim to be gorean of course but as I mentioned in a earlier post, no gorean master I know would want a girl that did not want him. In the books that is pretty much the same as well except when a master desires a girl so as to make her want him. Which of course they always seem to. :)
I just take it as one of the fantasy vs real life elements that come from writing sci-fi romance novels for the masses. I think thats what I like about the books, you get sci-fi adventure, a good deal of romantic interplay, and some very insightful concepts and philosophies concerning the relationship between men and women.
I and others have merely applied those concepts and philosophies into our lives and in particular our BDSM lifestyles.
I would like to add that I am not perfect in any way and have made a number of mistakes over the years. Most were small ones that caused no problems but I have done one or two loo loos as well. I have tried to learn from them so as not to ever repeat them.
God like, no - Good Master, I think I am.
@ Pro Dom
Yes, I agree with your points.
I think a girl would be wise to know the master she is going to beg a collar from but afterwards it becomes the masters duty to "USE" the slave well not to "ABUSE" her. If he does then the fault does not lie with her but with him and he should be held accountable for it.
Sadly some "masters" gorean or not will abuse the person who is relying on their trust and they may not be held accountable for their actions. I do not know of anyway of preventing this. Safe word or no safe word, sometimes things go wrong or someone loses control.
I guess its like sex, the only safe sex is either no sex or self sex. However in BDSM you can not even count on self BDSM since that is not safe either, many have gotten themselves into trouble when they were their only play partner.
Life is a risk we all take daily. Gorean or not.
walks in quietly with a small boom box, puts on some pan desi dance music, goes to the middle of the room and :
How to kneel in Gorean
Arms down
palms up
lips parted
teeth flared
eyes blazing
hair wet
shoulders back
collar gleams
breasts out
skin bare
tail arched
legs folded
thighs tense
knees spread
branded flesh
toes curled
sits
La Kajira
in
Nadu
Didn't I have you learn that mantra many many years ago girl?
Greetings to those in the room. I just thought I would drop in and see what the people at this site thought about us. The "us" conserned being those typically called or self professed "Goreans"; take your pick.
I wont bore you with stories of how I found my life long philosophical base hidden in the writtings of Norman at age 12. It's really simple you eaither get "it" or you don't.
I have read and been inspired by a lot of books. Most all of them have a message within them. Out of all the works of theology and philosophy I have studied; other than the wisdom of wiccan and zen buddist traditions (both of which I hold great reverence for), none that I have found to date have had such a strong of an influence on my soul as those of the world of Gor.