Oil Prices And Gas, When Do You Stop

[mkemse]

With Oil Prices going through the Roof and Gas Prices going up as well, at what point do YOU as a driver either greatly curtain driving or simply start looking for other means of Transportation to get around??

[Logic1]

Unless the prices here doubles I probably wont curtain my driving afaik. Perhaps I wont take a tour down through Europe if it rises much more but it isnt "that" bad yet for me.
The price here is roughly about 2$ a litre here right now.

[mkemse]

Unless the prices here doubles I probably wont curtain my driving afaik. Perhaps I wont take a tour down through Europe if it rises much more but it isnt "that" bad yet for me.
The price here is roughly about 2$ a litre here right now.

how do that compare to say $3.27 a gallon in the USA i am not firmilar with the metric system I am sorry to say

[Logic1]

1 US gallon = 3.78541178 liters so 2*3,785= 7.5$ a gallon in Sweden.

[mkemse]

[QUOTE=Logic1;578435]1 US gallon = 3.78541178 liters so 2*3,785= 7.5$ a gallon in Sweden.[/QUOTE

WOW $7.50 a gallon ??

[Ozme52]

It's always been more expensive to drive in Europe. Our prices are "subsidized" by the US government... to a different degree than say Venuzuela where gas 6 months ago was about 17 cents a gallon, but none-the-less, yes, we've always gotten a "deal" on gasoline/gasolene by European standards.

But... Europe is relatively small and tightly packed. Alternate modes of transportation are readily available and are convenient to use. Bicycles, taxis, subways, trains, trams, buses. I would have to drive 4 miles, pay to park (no way to take a bike on the bus) to catch a bus that only stops twice a day, to endure a 45 minute drive to get to town... another 10 miles. The cost to me is $2 which is about what the total cost is for me to drive all the way to town...

Getting home... well... what can I say.

Now... when I lived in the big city... Los Angeles... well, I didn't even have the option unless I wanted to sit on 5 buses for four hours to go 30 miles to work... and get there 2 hours late assuming I caught the first bus of the day.

I curtail my driving by making sure I combine all my daily errands into a single trip... and I try to limit that to 3 times a week.

[mkemse]

It's always been more expensive to drive in Europe. Our prices are "subsidized" by the US government... to a different degree than say Venuzuela where gas 6 months ago was about 17 cents a gallon, but none-the-less, yes, we've always gotten a "deal" on gasoline/gasolene by European standards.

But... Europe is relatively small and tightly packed. Alternate modes of transportation are readily available and are convenient to use. Bicycles, taxis, subways, trains, trams, buses. I would have to drive 4 miles, pay to park (no way to take a bike on the bus) to catch a bus that only stops twice a day, to endure a 45 minute drive to get to town... another 10 miles. The cost to me is $2 which is about what the total cost is for me to drive all the way to town...

Getting home... well... what can I say.


Now... when I lived in the big city... Los Angeles... well, I didn't even have the option unless I wanted to sit on 5 buses for four hours to go 30 miles to work... and get there 2 hours late assuming I caught the first bus of the day.

I curtail my driving by making sure I combine all my daily errands into a single trip... and I try to limit that to 3 times a week.

Not sure what you mean by our prices are "subsidized" by our government, would you please clarify that so i know what you mean??

[mkemse]

It's always been more expensive to drive in Europe. Our prices are "subsidized" by the US government... to a different degree than say Venuzuela where gas 6 months ago was about 17 cents a gallon, but none-the-less, yes, we've always gotten a "deal" on gasoline/gasolene by European standards.

But... Europe is relatively small and tightly packed. Alternate modes of transportation are readily available and are convenient to use. Bicycles, taxis, subways, trains, trams, buses. I would have to drive 4 miles, pay to park (no way to take a bike on the bus) to catch a bus that only stops twice a day, to endure a 45 minute drive to get to town... another 10 miles. The cost to me is $2 which is about what the total cost is for me to drive all the way to town...

Getting home... well... what can I say.

Now... when I lived in the big city... Los Angeles... well, I didn't even have the option unless I wanted to sit on 5 buses for four hours to go 30 miles to work... and get there 2 hours late assuming I caught the first bus of the day.

I curtail my driving by making sure I combine all my daily errands into a single trip... and I try to limit that to 3 times a week.

Clarification found,Oil Companies are subsized by a different Federal Governement tax code on oil companies then others companies pay the "standard" corporate tax to our governement is 17% while oil companies only pay 11%, so the 7% difference in Corprotate Taxes paid to the Governement keeps the cost of oil related products IE: Gas lower to the consumer via tax breaks to the oil companies
This was posted not forthe purpsoes of certinigh a debate but to clarify how il companies are subsized by governement nothing more

[Logic1]

Yeah we dont have any subsidizing by the governments here and we have loads of taxes on the gas price aswell. Gas is about half the price but then taxes like carbon tax and vat and other crap like that put on top of the base price on gasoline.

and yes our buses and other modes of public transport actually works quite decent if you live in the cities. If you live in the north of Sweden or far from the cities, then well they just arent an option just like Oz said it wasnt for him.
We are quite used to the high prices here from a long time of having it. That is not to say that we like it but we have gotten used to it kinda.
Prices is also why we have smaller cars in Europe compared to the US (that includes Sweden that actually has the largest cars in Europe) but in places like Italy and France the small cars are mostly due to there not really being enough space and in Denmark where the cars are so heavily taxed if you want a bigger car, and so many cars that run on Diesel fuel.

[Cool Luke's Hand]

At the point where it begins. I don't drive for a number of reasons, prime among which is the fact that I don't NEED to drive. I bike everywhere around here (into town, to university and so on), and I take the train and buses back home when I go back every few weeks.

[DOMLORD]

now.

[MMI]

I don't know if you guys have noticed it, but every time I drive past our local garage, the price of petrol has gone up by a penny a litre!

I take another route now, just to keep prices down.

Currently the price is 110.9 pence per litre. That corresponds to about $US8.30 per US gallon.

Do you know of a bigger rip-off?

[mkemse]

I don't know if you guys have noticed it, but every time I drive past our local garage, the price of petrol has gone up by a penny a litre!

I take another route now, just to keep prices down.

Currently the price is 110.9 pence per litre. That corresponds to about $US8.30 per US gallon.

Do you know of a bigger rip-off?

No, and it was mentioned in the United States today by the American Petrolium Industry, that Oil could reach over the next 2-3 years $200 a Barrel
eveything price wise is out of hand
In 2001 Oil was $32.19 a Barrel, at $125+ now that is about a 450% raise in price, a Broker in Chicago said Friday in his 30 years of Futures Trading he has never ever seen anything go up 450% in 7 years

[Tufty]

I don't know if you guys have noticed it, but every time I drive past our local garage, the price of petrol has gone up by a penny a litre!

I take another route now, just to keep prices down.

Currently the price is 110.9 pence per litre. That corresponds to about $US8.30 per US gallon.

Do you know of a bigger rip-off?

Absolutely right. It's been going up every day (that I've noticed) although it may have been every couple of days. The cheapest I've found near me is £1.119 per litre - which makes it around £5.09 a gallon or $US9.87 a gallon

And, as we all know, when the costs of fuel begin to rise, then the ocost of everything else rises

Fortunately, I live in the City centre so everything is very handy and I only tend use the car for work (40 miles away) and for the main supermarket shopping trip. On the down side, I have a disability so I do need a car to get places where public transport isn't available. Having said that, the local public transport service is unreliable and expensive anyway.

I've certainly noticed that I use the car less than I used to but the fact remains that I do need a car.

[ObjectivistActivist]

I will stop driving when all legal efforts to stop my government from taxing the shit out of oil products and companies have failed, thus making the price continue to rise. If they don't fail, well, the price will drop significantly.

Of course, Canada is all but completely so******t these days, so I doubt the taxation will stop. Gotta keep feeding those teenage immigrant welfare mothers on drugs, after all. (That's a reference to a song, btw, not a slight at immigrants or teenage mothers.)

[ObjectivistActivist]

On another note, it's amusing and, to me, appropriate to see the forums consider "s-o-c-i-a-l-i-s-t" or "s-o-c-i-a-l-i-s-m" a curse word worthy of editing into astericks.

[Thorne]

On another note, it's amusing and, to me, appropriate to see the forums consider "s-o-c-i-a-l-i-s-t" or "s-o-c-i-a-l-i-s-m" a curse word worthy of editing into astericks.

As noted in many places before, they aren't considered curse words: they contain the word "c i a l i s" and that word could be considered spam. It's an unfortunate failing of programming that they cannot distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable words.

[ObjectivistActivist]

I still find it personally amusing.

[Ozme52]

I'll point out that compared to the gas crisis of the 1970's, it's not all that expensive depending on how one looks at it. First, I can get gas any time I need to, whereas in the 70's one had to plan so that one didn't run out of gas on an even day with an odd numbered license plate or visa versa.

But as to cost, I was a teenager and worked a minimum wage job. I had to work about an hour and twenty minutes to earn enough money, after taxes, to buy a gallon of gas.

Today, at minimum wages, it takes something like 40 minutes to earn, again after income taxes are considered, a gallon of gas. (At California prices, which are for some inexplicable reason higher than the rest of the country.)

So while the prices are onerous, the situation is, relatively speaking, not as bad as it has been in the past.

That doesn't mean I'm happy with the situation... but it's easier to bear.

[Venom]

Around here (Central Europe) you pay ca 1,50€ / litre (~ $8.79 per gallon) for 98 octane. During the last years many people bought Diesel-engined cars; expensive at purchase, but cheaper to fuel up...till now. The Diesel price is rising, too.

[Ozme52]

Around here (Central Europe) you pay ca 1,50€ / litre (~ $8.79 per gallon) for 98 octane. During the last years many people bought Diesel-engined cars; expensive at purchase, but cheaper to fuel up...till now. The Diesel price is rising, too.

Yes, I don't quite understand why it inverted... but diesel seems to be consistently costing about 60 cents a gallon more than octane 87 gasoline.

[mkemse]

Yes, I don't quite understand why it inverted... but diesel seems to be consistently costing about 60 cents a gallon more than octane 87 gasoline.

Smoke and Mirrors: Why Are U.S. Diesel Prices So High?

With me being a professional automotive journalist and all, Ted Haberkorn figured I was just the man to answer his question.

Ted Haberkorn was mistaken. He should have just asked me about quantum physics in Farsi.

Here's what's on Ted Haberkorn's mind: In his 81 years, Ted has owned, by actual count, 42 vehicles, some of them diesels. Ted likes diesels. He drove a couple of Mercedes-Benz diesels, and right now, he drives a diesel-powered Dodge Ram Quad Cab pickup. Which is cool: When I'm 81, I'll be lucky if I can drive a Rascal.

Anyway, Ted Haberkorn doesn't understand why a gallon of diesel fuel costs more — considerably more — than a gallon of regular gasoline, when not that long ago, diesel was substantially cheaper than regular gas.

How much more? "I've paid 40, 50, even 60 cents more per gallon," he says. "What's going on?" he asks.

I've wondered the same thing. "Lots of people have wondered the same thing," says Allen Schaeffer, executive director of the Diesel Technology Forum, an information clearinghouse backed mostly by car and truck manufacturers, as well as a fuel company or two.

No easy answer
Unfortunately, Schaeffer says, there is no easy answer. Part of the most recent price hike is traceable to the Gulf of Mexico hurricanes disrupting refineries, oil wells and fuel shipments. The hurricanes were "a burp in a system that has very little room to deal with burps," Schaeffer says. When the refineries went back online, they concentrated on producing the product with the greatest demand, which was gasoline.

But there's more, he says. This time of year, an increase in the demand for heating oil raises the competition for crude, which raises the prices.

Another factor: Global demand for diesel is increasing. In some European countries, more than half the cars have diesel engines.

Still another factor: Refineries are gearing up to manufacture a new, cleaner diesel fuel, due to hit the market in less than a year. The goal of "clean diesel" is to virtually eliminate sulfur from diesel fuel. Lower-sulfur fuel is cleaner on its own, but its main purpose is to make it easier for engine manufacturers to filter pollution out of the exhaust after the fuel is burned. Ultralow sulfur fuel is supposed to be available nationwide beginning in the fall of 2006.

Schaeffer says that, yes, this process will raise the price of diesel fuel even more per gallon, possibly between 4 and 7 cents. But he also speculates that some small portion of the recent record-high diesel prices might be invested by refineries to produce this cleaner fuel.

Not so new
In October, the national average for a gallon of diesel fuel rose to a record $3.10. On August 29, diesel averaged 2 cents per gallon less than regular gas. On October 24, diesel averaged more than 55 cents per gallon more. But it has been rising for a long time. According to the federal government's Energy Information Administration (EIA) statistics, diesel has been gaining on regular gasoline from about 1994 to the fall of 2004, when, for the most part, diesel became more expensive.

Helpfully, the EIA offers a breakdown of that $3.10-a-gallon diesel from October: 16 percent of the $3.10 goes to taxes, 10 percent to distribution and marketing, 29 percent for refining, 45 percent for crude oil.

Compare that to the breakdown on a gallon of regular gas from October, which cost $2.72. Of that, 16 percent went to taxes, 18 percent to distribution and marketing, 15 percent to refining, 51 percent to crude oil.

Obviously, the biggest difference we see here is the refining cost, presumably because in this post-Hurricane Katrina atmosphere, most refineries still working were refining gasoline. But now that we are back to relatively normal, the difference in price between diesel and gasoline remains about the same.

The EIA has a helpful "Frequently Asked Questions" posting on its Web site that addresses the question, "Why are diesel prices so high?" To summarize the answer: Yada yada yada…distillate fuel production…lower than typical…heating oil…vote Republican…largest determinate for future path…yada yada, and, in conclusion, yada.

The light at the end of the tunnel is Willie Nelson
But there may be relief in sight, thanks to Willie Nelson. Willie is a backer of "BioWillie," a biodiesel fuel made from seeds and stems and probably soybeans. After all, Rudolph Diesel, who invented the engine, used to run his on peanut oil. Adding biodiesel to regular diesel might cut the cost per gallon. Or not. Anyway, Willie Nelson backs his own brand, BioWillie, which is sold at truck stops "all over the country," which means six places in Texas, and one each in California, Georgia and South Carolina, but if you log on to www.biowillie.com, you can buy a BioWillie computer mouse pad for $15.99.

I'm not sure any of this helps Ted Haberkorn. But this might: I asked a friend who is in the petroleum industry why they charge so much for diesel.

"Because we can," he said.

That, I understand.

[crazy_grrluk]

The cheapest round my part of this city ive found is £1.10 a litre ($8.60 US a gallon) for unleaded and is £1.20 a litre ($9.40 US a gallon) for diesil... and its rising every day.

put it this way this time last year I was filling my car up on £50 for 61 litres and now last time i filled it it cost me £70 :s

[mkemse]

i am unable to thing of any single item that has not gon up in price overthe last 6-12 months, gas, food basic everyday necesseties, i believe everyone exceptthe elite and ricj within then ext few years will be the only ones who can afford good decent food, no o do not mean steak and lobster, but daily staples, nobody will be able to drive, i have heard truckers in illinois say aftertheir current run, they are selling their rigs and looking for other jobs as they can't afford to drive anymore, yes theym make money but not enough to live on

something has to be done, the question is what??

[ObjectivistActivist]

something has to be done, the question is what??

Abolish taxes, abolish s-o-c-i-a-l-i-s-t policies in government, abolish fiat money systems.

Problem solved.

[mkemse]

Abolish taxes, abolish s-o-c-i-a-l-i-s-t policies in government, abolish fiat money systems.

Problem solved.

The only problem with that is if the Oil Companie loose thier tax breaks or get hit with a Windfall Profits tax, what is to stop them from raising the price of Gas up even more to make up for the lost revenue
The Government is considering less Tax breaks for Farmers, what about Oil Companies that Quarterly HAVE 19.5 billion in profits, let them or make them usae this profit to develop more alternative fuels, more refineries, locates and drill for more oil, if the Governement can do this to Farmers, why not to oil Companies, very simple Halliburton - Dick Chaney (former Pres & CEO of Haliburton) and George Bush, a Major Oil Co. investor (OIl Where most of his wealth has come from)

[ObjectivistActivist]

The only problem with that is if the Oil Companie loose thier tax breaks or get hit with a Windfall Profits tax, what is to stop them from raising the price of Gas up even more to make up for the lost revenue
The Government is considering less Tax breaks for Farmers, what about Oil Companies that Quarterly HAVE 19.5 billion in profits, let them or make them usae this profit to develop more alternative fuels, more refineries, locates and drill for more oil, if the Governement can do this to Farmers, why not to oil Companies, very simple Halliburton - Dick Chaney (former Pres & CEO of Haliburton) and George Bush, a Major Oil Co. investor (OIl Where most of his wealth has come from)

First, you seem to be confusing the term "abolish" with "increase." Abolish means remove entirely. Therefore, no taxation on anything, let alone oil products/producers.

Second, no government has the right to "make someone" do anything with their profits. The someone could hoard their money, spend it frivolously, or burn it in pyres and the government has no right to say which of the three is right or wrong. Business and government are properly seperated, as are church and government.

Third, are you refering to GWB, or GB Sr.? Because GWB LOST a lot of money in oil because he's incompetent, he didn't make a lot.

[mkemse]

First, you seem to be confusing the term "abolish" with "increase." Abolish means remove entirely. Therefore, no taxation on anything, let alone oil products/producers.

Second, no government has the right to "make someone" do anything with their profits. The someone could hoard their money, spend it frivolously, or burn it in pyres and the government has no right to say which of the three is right or wrong. Business and government are properly seperated, as are church and government.

Third, are you refering to GWB, or GB Sr.? Because GWB LOST a lot of money in oil because he's incompetent, he didn't make a lot.

2nd: Yes, The Governement can Force the Oil Companies to do something, they can hitthem where it hurts, their Profits, they can Take Away their Yearly Subsidies and hit them with a Windfall Profits Tax, that might "Motivate" them to use thier profits for exploration, develop ect
and use the Tax thier Winfall Profits to reinburse Americans

3rd: The Current GWB, he may have lost alot in his oil investments, but I hardly see either The Current GWB or Sr. struggling to buy gas. Food, Medication ect for themselves or their families

Also, When Clinton Left Office in 2001, Oil was $32.19 cents a Barrel, it is not $125+, that is a 450% price increase in 7 years, a Commidities Broker was on CNN the other night and said in his 35 years of trading he has neverseem any comodity go up 450% in 7 years, it is un heard of, and i can notthink of anything we use daily that hasgone up 450% in 7 years??

19.5 BILLION in profits for most Oil Companies in 4 months is beyond obscence, that translate to about $3.80 a gallon. they say oil costs them more, fine if it costs them more how do they explain the largest quartly profits over 2 years of ANY corportation on earth, they pay more for oil, sure, but they also profit by Billions every quarter, why????

[Venom]

Today, 13.05.2008, Diesel temporary cost more than 91-octane petrol. It was the first time I saw this EVER in my country! To make it clear: petrol wasn't cheaper than yesterday, Diesel was just more expensive. Nobody can tell me that this is a purely economical consequence of supply and demand. Without going into details: petrol and Diesel are extracted from petroleum in a more or less constant ratio. A higher Diesel production following higher Diesel consumption means more and therefore cheaper petrol. But for some reasons this locic doesn't reach the petrol stations...

[mkemse]

Deisel In The United States is now more the Regular Unleaed, Diesel here is right around $4.17-$.25 a gallon. the average for Gas (Petro) here is $3.85(The National Average is $3.67) the higher price is some States and Cities in this Country are already over $.00 other are still at the "Cheaper" $3.67--$3.85